psychologists and psychiatrists in california 2002

[gaki]

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I found this neat article comparing psychologists and psychiatrists in California, and thought I would just post a link to it. Maybe someone like me who is looking to decide between the two would find it useful.

http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/...1091502040487_266&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0

Abstract:
OBJECTIVE: The authors compared data from psychiatrists and psychologists in California to determine whether long-standing differences in clinical practice remain after the introduction of managed care and other changes in mental service delivery. METHODS: Responses from practicing clinicians in California who participated in the 1998 National Survey of Psychiatric Practice and the 2000 California Survey of Psychological Practice were compared on items related to patient caseload, practice profile, and insurance or reimbursement arrangements. RESULTS: Data from 97 psychiatrists and 395 psychologists were available for the study. Psychiatrists reported spending more hours on most aspects of practice and working more total hours per week than psychologists. The weekly caseloads reported by psychiatrists included a greater percentage of persons treated for psychotic conditions than did the caseloads of psychologists. Psychologists reported that their weekly caseloads included a greater percentage of persons treated for anxiety disorders, personality disorders, and other disorders. Psychiatrists reported receiving a greater average payment for services from public insurance, and psychologists reported treating a greater average percentage of patients who did not have insurance coverage. Significant differences in income sources and fee arrangements were observed, and the net reported income of psychiatrists was nearly 80 percent greater than that of psychologists. CONCLUSIONS: Long-standing differences in clinical practice patterns remain between psychiatrists and psychologists despite managed care staffing arrangements and treatment strategies that streamline the practices of both provider groups. The significant income and wage differences between psychiatrists and psychologists may be partly due to supply dynamics of the mental health workforce that adversely affect psychologists.

 

[Sanman]

Nice article gaki, though I do have some issues with the design and conclusions of it.

 

[gaki]

oh like what? i am just curious 🙂

 

[Sanman]

Well, I don't have time to go in depth, but for starters the differences in the number of psychologists and psychiatrists and years in practice will throw all the results off. Also, with the conclusion doesn't mention that salary differences also have to do with hours worked. When that is accounted for the diff. is more like 80k and 120K. And when you account for the fact that the psychiatrists had more years in practice and therefore more earnings it closes even more. In addition, if you look at the breakdown of workplace, a number of psychologists worked at universities, if these were professors, they shouldn't be counted unless there are a similar number of academic psychiatrists in the mix. Just my opinion though.

 

[gaki]

ohh yes what you said is all true.. maybe they should have done a breakdown according to what their job situation was, dollars earned while acting as a professor, in private practice, consulting, etc. That would be interesting. The whole article behind the link was still kind of neat though. It had handy dandy charts at the end too 🙂

 

[PublicHealth]

Well, I don't have time to go in depth, but for starters the differences in the number of psychologists and psychiatrists and years in practice will throw all the results off. Also, with the conclusion doesn't mention that salary differences also have to do with hours worked. When that is accounted for the diff. is more like 80k and 120K. And when you account for the fact that the psychiatrists had more years in practice and therefore more earnings it closes even more. In addition, if you look at the breakdown of workplace, a number of psychologists worked at universities, if these were professors, they shouldn't be counted unless there are a similar number of academic psychiatrists in the mix. Just my opinion though.

Good points. The study also failed to survey clinical specialists such as neuropsychologists, who tend to do more assessment and forensic work, and who make about 15-20% more than non-specialist clinical psychologists. In fact, some neuropsychologists make well over $200K by doing a lot of forensic evaluations.

Nevertheless, the intent of the study is admirable, and I wish more such studies would be done -- more methodologically rigorous studies, that is. 😀

 

[neuronic]

Just for kicks, starting salary for VAs in California:

Bay Area
Psychologist - out of internship (67,963); licensed (81,460); licensed +1 year (96,867); max out in clinical job (125,926), max out in admin job (148,806)

Los Angeles
Psychologist - out of internship (63,945); licensed (76,644); licensed +1 year (91,141); max out in clinical job (118,481), max out in admin job (140,008)

In contrast, psychiatrists are on a completely different pay scale often starting at $160K and maxing out near $250K.

 

[neuronic]

Also. To check out salaries of anyone in the VA, you can go to
http://php.app.com/fed_employees12/search.php

Major public universities also have searchable salary databases (e.g., UCal System, UOregon, UFlorida) so you can see the difference between psychology and psychiatry vs. a whole lot of other things.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

One of the caveats to the public Uni lookup is that they probably only account for direct monies, no private practice, no consulting, etc. For example, my PP money adds at least another 50% to my base salary.

 

[PHD12]

Just for kicks, starting salary for VAs in California:

Bay Area
Psychologist - out of internship (67,963); licensed (81,460); licensed +1 year (96,867); max out in clinical job (125,926), max out in admin job (148,806)

Los Angeles
Psychologist - out of internship (63,945); licensed (76,644); licensed +1 year (91,141); max out in clinical job (118,481), max out in admin job (140,008)

In contrast, psychiatrists are on a completely different pay scale often starting at $160K and maxing out near $250K.

Not bad, but you need to get a VA job in LA/bay area as a psychologist! 125K sounds great to me right now, but I wonder how i'd feel after 30 years of experience.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Not bad, but you need to get a VA job in LA/bay area as a psychologist! 125K sounds great to me right now, but I wonder how i'd feel after 30 years of experience.

That is a tough obstacle to overcome, as they are some of the most sought after positions in the VA system (location location location). As for the Kaiser jobs....you get six figures, but you have huge caseloads and high productivity #'s to hit.