Psychologists recurring misinformation and oversimplificiation of neurology.

[Prototype123]

Holy **** for reals?

All the more reason for entering and making some solid contribution. My main objective is to simply stimulate discussion. The main focus will be in evolutionary psychology and psychodynamics. I will use the hard science of neurology and physiology to bolster my arguments. I believe myself to be capable of making quantum leaps in the field. Time will tell.

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[Justanothergrad]

He correctly identified the root cause of extrovert vs introvert personalities in adults. The man was brilliant.

Not even sure which inaccurate part I want to point out. He did some great work on personality but your intro textbook may have led you to conclude some things you shouldn't.

I'm sure you are also up to date with his race research, his 'work' finding aliens and such, and statements on therapy not working (protip, it does).

If you are gonna argue for someone, argue festinger at least..

 

[Justanothergrad]

I believe myself to be capable of making quantum leaps in the field.

 

[erg923]

I, LOVE this show.

 

[NeuroWise]

I legit get excited when this person makes a post. There is so much suspense! Who is going to lose their patience first? Are the mods going to block anyone? Can the OP ratchet up the ridiculousness to unforeseen levels? This is high drama, friends.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Mod Note: Everyone, let's please remember to keep posts on-topic, civil, and professional.

 

[deleted75966]

Brain laterality is a really interesting topic. Yes, some conceptualizations are overly simplified, but there has been obfuscation with the advent of fMRI. E.g., language. Yes, there are bilateral aspects of language, and interhemispheric communication is substantial on language tasks. Both sides of the brain "light up" on language tasks. As anyone who deals with stroke or epilepsy knows, understanding laterality remains important. Think of something like motor programming and apraxia. Take a look at callossal apraxia. That's pretty interesting, yeah? Has lots of subtle implications for recovery from injury and even how people learn. Even not so extreme damage can have an effect. For example:

Falchook et al. , Cognitive-motor dysfunction after severe traumatic brain injury: A cerebral interhemispheric disconnection syndrome.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I, LOVE this show.

The overall story arc was pretty weak because they were more focused on "crisis of the week", but yeah…I loved that show growing up.

 

[Prototype123]

Brain laterality is a really interesting topic.

The problem is claiming that math abilities mainly reside in the left hemisphere, when it's the complete opposite (that is to say mainly the right). The left hemisphere is mainly responsible for arithmetic, that is to say basic counting, which is certainly a component of mathematics but a far cry from all that goes on during mathematical operations.

 

[Prototype123]

Not even sure which inaccurate part I want to point out. He did some great work on personality but your intro textbook may have led you to conclude some things you shouldn't.

I'm sure you are also up to date with his race research, his 'work' finding aliens and such, and statements on therapy not working (protip, it does).

If you are gonna argue for someone, argue festinger at least..

I know he was wrong on several things, but so were Newton and Einstein. It doesn't mean anything.

 

[Prototype123]

To highlight the differences even more, if the correlation in an IQ test between verbal comprehension and math is, say, 0.50. Then spatial intelligence and math is somewhere around 0.80. Maybe even higher. I don't know the exact numbers but it is really visuospatial proficency that is the best predictor of math skills, and this, of course, resides in the right hemisphere.

 

[Justanothergrad]

To highlight the differences even more, if the correlation in an IQ test between verbal comprehension and math is, say, 0.50. Then spatial intelligence and math is somewhere around 0.80. Maybe even higher. I don't know the exact numbers but it is really visuospatial proficency that is the best predictor of math skills, and this, of course, resides in the right hemisphere.

I'm going to make a point using numbers. I don't know if the numbers are right or not, but lets just pretend they are for my argument

#alternativefacts

 

[Prototype123]

I'm going to make a point using numbers. I don't know if the numbers are right or not, but lets just pretend they are for my argument

#alternativefacts

I know there are different studies, one with correlation of 0.50 between verbal comprehension and math, which is not very impressive, while the correlation between math and spatial intelligence is significant. I know of no Mensa member with subpar math skills. And Mensa tests in Sweden only measure spatial intelligence. They don't even have math puzzles.

 

[rerope]

This thread just pointed to one of the most beautiful forum trainwrecks I've seen in a long time (post in the lounge by OP). I'm 50/50 on whether the banhammer should come crashing down and kinda want to see if this post will just dissolve into memes and anarchy *grabs popcorn and some tea*

 

[Prototype123]

Why have I encountered three (count them) lecturers in a row, one even in neuropsychology, all committing the same fallacy, if there isn't anything to my point? Were they all under a swedish conspiracy to teach 80s neuroscience?

 

[Prototype123]

I put up a poll now. Please cast your vote.

 

[rerope]

Why have I encountered three (count them) lecturers in a row, one even in neuropsychology, all committing the same fallacy, if there isn't anything to my point? Were they all under a Swedish conspiracy to teach 80s neuroscience?

I'm curious. Are you planning to go into the field and have you applied to graduate school? If so I'm curious as to how you'll accept a mentor if the field is so full of ill-trained psychologists (btw I'm not just talking about the subject matter of the thread but any theory your mentor holds that you don't agree with).

 

[Prototype123]

I'm curious. Are you planning to go into the field and have you applied to graduate school? If so I'm curious as to how you'll accept a mentor if the field is so full of ill-trained psychologists (btw I'm not just talking about the subject matter of the thread but any theory your mentor holds that you don't agree with).

My field will be evolutionary psychology. Things seem to be at least ok there (thank god). Whenever I need neuropsychology input, I will turn to the medical sciences for sure. This is unacceptable.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Wait. you are complaining about poor science and want to study something based entirely on post-hoc reasoning?

 

[deleted75966]

Why have I encountered three (count them) lecturers in a row, one even in neuropsychology, all committing the same fallacy, if there isn't anything to my point? Were they all under a Swedish conspiracy to teach 80s neuroscience?

You attend a crappy university?

Also, what is math?

Take the WAIS (you mentioned it). This is somewhat colored, but arithmetic is a WAIS subtest. You need working memory to perform well on it. For many applications, substantially interconnected functional systems are necessary to perform well in "math." To say math is lateralized to the right hemisphere without operationalizing what you mean by math is problematic.

Acalculia, for example, can most definitely be caused by a left hemisphere lesion. This is part of the early identification of localization of math function in beh neurology/neuropsychology (see gerstmann). Maybe you just don't understand what your professors are talking about?

 

[Prototype123]

Wait. you are complaining about poor science and want to study something based entirely on post-hoc reasoning?

No, poor representation of science. As for evolutionary psychology, I make no pretension to be doing 100% natural science. There will be conjecture involved which suits my philosophical mind. That's different however from reporting Darwins theory of natural selection incorrectly. I hope you are able to discern that difference.

 

[psych.meout]

My field will be evolutionary psychology. Things seem to be at least ok there (thank god). Whenever I need neuropsychology input, I will turn to the medical sciences for sure. This is unacceptable.

No, poor representation of science. As for evolutionary psychology, I make no pretension to be doing 100% natural science. There will be conjecture involved which suits my philosophical mind. That's different however from reporting Darwins theory of natural selection incorrectly. I hope you are able to discern that difference.

Best. Thread. Ever.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Sounds more like your poor comprehension of science. Your plan to represent science better is to use 'conjecture' to support your theory... just like the medical sciences do. This seems entirely reasonable. Period.

I'm making a new rule for myself. I bring snacks before I open this thread from now on.

 

[rerope]

My field will be evolutionary psychology. Things seem to be at least ok there (thank god). Whenever I need neuropsychology input, I will turn to the medical sciences for sure. This is unacceptable.

Best of luck to you. However, from your answers it just seems like authority (regardless of how much expertise they have or if their theory is sound) rubs you the wrong way...

 

[Prototype123]

You attend a crappy university?

Also, what is math?

Take the WAIS (you mentioned it). This is somewhat colored, but arithmetic is a WAIS subtest. You need working memory to perform well on it. For many applications, substantially interconnected functional systems are necessary to perform well in "math." To say math is lateralized to the right hemisphere without operationalizing what you mean by math is problematic.

Again, people with non reading disabilities have all two things in common: below average spatial intelligence and math debilitation of any kind. Yet their verbal performances can still be high. So to suggest that people with strong left hemispheres would be naturally good at both language and math is blatantly false.

 

[Prototype123]

Best of luck to you. However, from your answers it just seems like authority (regardless of how much expertise they have or if their theory is sound) rubs you the wrong way...

I don't know where you got that notion.

 

[deleted75966]

Again, people with non reading disabilities have all two things in common: below average spatial intelligence and math debilitation of any kind. Yet their verbal performances can still be high. So to suggest that people with strong left hemispheres would be naturally good at both language and math is blatantly false.

What is a non reading disability and why are they so homogenous in their symptom presentation (all have below average spatial intelligence and math impairment)? Seems like it would be good to not have a reading disability. Are verbal abilities uniform? I must have missed that class.

 

[smalltownpsych]

My wife has a tough time reading a clock because she is not exactly the most adept when it comes to certain visual-spatial skills. You should see her try to read a friggin' map. Is that a non-reading disability? Or am I an intellectually challenged individual because I have her navigate for me? Either way if we get lost in the desert and die of thirst, isn't that a great example of evolutionary psychology?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

My field will be evolutionary psychology. Things seem to be at least ok there (thank god). Whenever I need neuropsychology input, I will turn to the medical sciences for sure. This is unacceptable.

The irony is that when the medical sciences need neuropsychology input they turn to...neuropsychologists. For many of us/neuropsychologists, that is the majority of what we do.

 

[Prototype123]

What is a non reading disability and why are they so homogenous in their symptom presentation (all have below average spatial intelligence and math impairment)? Seems like it would be good to not have a reading disability. Are verbal abilities uniform? I must have missed that class.

Sorry, it's called Nonverbal Learning Disabilities. And those profiles are pretty much uniform.

 

[Prototype123]

and statements on therapy not working (protip, it does).
.

This is not my area of interest but from what I gather, the data indicates that there is something like a 50% success rate for certain therapies, which of course means that they don't work, since many conditions have that exact recovery rate irrespective of getting any treatment.

 

[erg923]

Sorry, it's called Nonverbal Learning Disabilities. And those profiles are pretty much uniform.

FYI, this is wastebasket diagnosis whose validity has long been subject of debate and controversy.

I do not know what you mean by "those profiles are pretty much uniform."

 

[Prototype123]

I do not know what you mean by "those profiles are pretty much uniform."

The verbal-spatial relationship is uniformly asymetrical. That is to say normal or high on verbal tests and low on spatial.

 

[CheetahGirl]

I'm making a new rule for myself. I bring snacks before I open this thread from now on.

I was hoping I could contribute in some thoughtful way, but what the heck is the point of this discussion? To poll: Are psychology lecturers in general poor at conveying accurate neuroscience? Sounds like a 'leading' question.

Ask better questions, get better answers, OP. Still intrigued how you can engage so many psychologists who actually practice the very things you are asking about.

Good luck with your career in evolutionary psychology. Do you plan to be a psychology lecturer? If so, based on your question, avoid neuroscience as a topic at all costs. Mmmkay?

 

[Prototype123]

Ask better questions, get better answers, O
P. Still intrigued how you can engage so many psychologists who actually practice the very things you are asking about.

Good luck with your career in evolutionary psychology. Do you plan to be a psychology lecturer? If so, based on your question, avoid neuroscience as a topic at all costs. Mmmkay?

I am quite flattered you take for granted that I will be accepted.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

This is not my area of interest but from what I gather, the data indicates that there is something like a 50% success rate for certain therapies, which of course means that they don't work, since many conditions have that exact recovery rate irrespective of getting any treatment.

There is a high level of disagreement surrounding NLDs, so whether a particular intervention works or not is less important than if the actual DX being "treated" is legit. If the DX is correct AND reflective of the actual impairments, then looking at treatment effects makes sense.

 

[Prototype123]

There is a high level of disagreement surrounding NLDs, so whether a particular intervention works or not is less important than if the actual DX being "treated" is legit.

NLDS?

 

[CheetahGirl]

I am quite flattered you take for granted that I will be accepted.

Oh Lord! You haven't even applied yet?!? Undergraduate???

SDNer to SDNer...open your mind's scope. Interviewers will sense the contradiction between your worldview and your goals, and they don't want to bother convincing you of all that you will be taught.

There are many, many people who are already predisposed to open-mindedness and respect shown to those who have much greater experience and knowledge than anyone of us have at any given time.

Like I said...Good luck!

 

[Justanothergrad]

This is not my area of interest but from what I gather, the data indicates that there is something like a 50% success rate for certain therapies, which of course means that they don't work, since many conditions have that exact recovery rate irrespective of getting any treatment.

You probably shouldn't talk about things you don't know about then. Your alternative facts are wrong and substantially so.

 

[Prototype123]

You probably shouldn't talk about things you don't know about then. Your alternative facts are wrong and substantially so.

Well....I got an A on the theraphy/treatment subcourse.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Well....I got an A on the theraphy/treatment subcourse.

Seems like Jon Snow's hypothesis might be worth considering a little more....

 

[smalltownpsych]

Better lectures? Is Lund university that bad?

Isn't he one of their graduates? I loved this guy. He sounds just like my relatives from over there.

 

[Prototype123]

There are many, many people who are already predisposed to open-mindedness and respect shown to those who have much greater experience and knowledge than anyone of us have at any given time.

This isn't about that. They were presenting outdated material and accepted the correction with no problem. The problem is that this wasn't an isolated incident.

 

[ilovedance1]

It is also worth considering that an undergraduate education in Sweden is drastically different than a graduate education in the US. I'm not sure how similar the undergraduate education is in different countries.

 

[erg923]

The verbal-spatial relationship is uniformly assymetrical. That is to say normal or high on verbal tests and low on spatial.

which means.... what?

Isn't he one of their graduates? I loved this guy. He sounds just like my relatives from over there.

I, LOVE this guy.

 

[Prototype123]

which means.... what?

That math disabilities and spatial disabilities go hand in hand, regardless of verbal comprehension.

 

[smalltownpsych]

That math disabilities and spatial disabilities go hand in hand, regardless of verbal comprehension.

My wife is good at math, verbally gifted and is a visuo-spatial 90 pound weakling. BTW it only takes an n=1 to disprove a definitive statement such as you just made.

 

[Prototype123]

My wife is good at math, verbally gifted and is a visuo-spatial 90 pound weakling. BTW it only takes an n=1 to disprove a definitive statement such as you just made.

90 is within the normal range. Also, define good at math. I doubt either one of you appreciate what that truly entails. Psychologists tend to have a very narrow concept of mathematics. Holts book claimed that Albert Einsten was exceptional at math. What Holt doesn't know is that Einsteins equations were written out incorrectly, and that he had his wife do the math for him in physics. His wife was clearly bad at it too.

 

[Prototype123]

More misinformation: The textbook points to Kim Peek (Rain Man) as an example of autism. Word to the uniniated: Kim Peek did not have autism, he had a congenital brain abnormality.

Since the professor based his lecture on the textbook he used Kim Peek as well, and I had to correct once again.

 

[Prototype123]

It is also worth considering that an undergraduate education in Sweden is drastically different than a graduate education in the US. I'm not sure how similar the undergraduate education is in different countries.

The textbook is english and the basis for all of this misinformation. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51qF6EArJXL.jpg