Psychopharmacology/Advanced Practice Psychology

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I am currently in a RxP post-doc master's program with the goal to become a prescribing psychologist. I also sit on multiple RxP committees across two states and on a national level, I will say that I've been in discussions with state senators to get support as we are planning on proposing a bill in late 2024 for RxP. I also met with a dean of a division of programs at the AMC I am faculty on and they are very much on board with the prospect of creating a M.S.CP. program there, so that is still evolving. I've submitted papers, data, etc. so we can get the ball rolling on getting this operational in the next two years.

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I am currently in a RxP post-doc master's program with the goal to become a prescribing psychologist. I also sit on multiple RxP committees across two states and on a national level, I will say that I've been in discussions with state senators to get support as we are planning on proposing a bill in late 2024 for RxP. I also met with a dean of a division of programs at the AMC I am faculty on and they are very much on board with the prospect of creating a M.S.CP. program there, so that is still evolving. I've submitted papers, data, etc. so we can get the ball rolling on getting this operational in the next two years.
The Texas legislature only convenes every two years. And… it’s Texas. I have colleagues in TX who have been actively involved in RxP over the past 2 decades; they’ve given up. I wouldn’t hold my breath…
 
The Texas legislature only convenes every two years. And… it’s Texas. I have colleagues in TX who have been actively involved in RxP over the past 2 decades; they’ve given up. I wouldn’t hold my breath…

I serve on the RxP committee in Texas and have been an active member and do know what we are doing as ...I am part of the planning! We will be submitting our bill in November of 2024 hopefully so that we get on the books for early 2025 session. At least that's what our lobbying group has outlined for us in our past meeting a week ago. We have been taking different approaches compared to times past and I am optimistic. I can't speak for your colleagues.
 
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I serve on the RxP committee in Texas and have been an active member and do know what we are doing as ...I am part of the planning! We will be submitting our bill in November of 2024 hopefully so that we get on the books for early 2025 session. At least that's what our lobbying group has outlined for us in our past meeting a week ago. We have been taking different approaches compared to times past and I am optimistic. I can't speak for your colleagues.
Best of luck in the process.
 
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I serve on the RxP committee in Texas and have been an active member and do know what we are doing as ...I am part of the planning! We will be submitting our bill in November of 2024 hopefully so that we get on the books for early 2025 session. At least that's what our lobbying group has outlined for us in our past meeting a week ago. We have been taking different approaches compared to times past and I am optimistic. I can't speak for your colleagues.
What sort of different approaches? I am curious as to how RxP seems to be picking up steam again after essentially crashing and burning a decade-ish ago…
 
I'm not optimistic about TX's chances, but would be glad to be wrong on that. I think WA and HI may be next. NY's bill will get mired in committees until the end of time. AZ's legislature seems to be a mess. PA could happen. I have no idea what's going on in VT.
 
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What sort of different approaches? I am curious as to how RxP seems to be picking up steam again after essentially crashing and burning a decade-ish ago…

We hired on a lobby group that's been very helpful in re-structuring our approach. The other aspect is that many of us are speaking to various organizations such as nurse and PA groups in Texas to get their support. NAMI recently back tracked their public opposition to Texas RxP and actually endorsed us. We have a website that helps provide useful information to folks as well as a plethora of updated white papers. Myself - I've had meetings with some state senators' policy analysts, especially with a high profile senator. I've also initiated a proposal with a med school here to develop a M.S.CP. program that we will have in our proposed bill to outline a clear path to train prospective providers in our state and elsewhere. Coming up, we will be doing several presentations across the state and continue to meet with key members of committees using a different narrative than maybe what's been used in the past that wasn't as persuasive. You will miss 100% of the shots you don't take, so, we have to continue to try and not have a defeatist attitude. I was advised by some members who have been in this committee much longer than I have that in times past when it was proposed for members to take a grassroots approach and speak with various senators, etc., several committee members would downright not do so because they had fundamental or philosophical differences with the senators' policies. That stuff doesn't phase me....I check that crap at the door and do I what I need to do to achieve the goal(s) I have. Gotta find middle ground. Make small gains.
 
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I always thought Texas had a decent chance. Their laws seem to be made while intoxicated, and they share borders with two RxP states. AZ seems similar.

There’s only so many things that are legal in 6 states.
 
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I've also initiated a proposal with a med school here to develop a M.S.CP. program

I’ve been wondering why we haven’t tried to get more med schools to start MSCP programs. It would probably weaken the other sides argument in terms of competence and patient safety, and the training would probably seem more legitimate to legislators and the general public.
 
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I’ve been wondering why we haven’t tried to get more med schools to start MSCP programs. It would probably weaken the other sides argument in terms of competence and patient safety, and the training would probably seem more legitimate to legislators and the general public.

Considering the AMA is an active opponent to RxP, can't imagine med schools are looking to royally piss off a majority of their employees and students.
 
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Considering the AMA is an active opponent to RxP, can't imagine med schools are looking to royally piss off a majority of their employees and students.

True, but it would give them some control of the process, and if they are truly concerned about patient safety, which isn’t an actual issue with prescribing psychologists in the first place, it would be a good position for them to argue to be involved. It’s a reasonable middle ground as we, albeit very slowly, continue to win more states which obviously in turn won’t include them in the training process at all. For us it’d probably be 10x better than getting training at TCSPP and Alliant. At least Alliant has a nursing school now, not sure how much credibility that’ll add to them or their MSCP program, but I’m sure the two programs will work closely together.
 
True, but it would give them some control of the process, and if they are truly concerned about patient safety, which isn’t an actual issue with prescribing psychologists in the first place, it would be a good position for them to argue to be involved. It’s a reasonable middle ground as we, albeit very slowly, continue to win more states which obviously in turn won’t include them in the training process at all. For us it’d probably be 10x better than getting training at TCSPP and Alliant. At least Alliant has a nursing school now, not sure how much credibility that’ll add to them or their MSCP program, but I’m sure the two programs will work closely together.

But, they're not really concerned about patient safety, it's simply a turf was issue. They'll probably fight it pretty hard until about 15 states get it done and then they'll drop it as the horse will have officially left the barn. As for RxP, there are better options than TCSPP and Alliant. We have FDU, NMSU ISU and Drake, I believe.
 
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I'm not optimistic about TX's chances, but would be glad to be wrong on that. I think WA and HI may be next. NY's bill will get mired in committees until the end of time. AZ's legislature seems to be a mess. PA could happen. I have no idea what's going on in VT.
TX just seems to be very unfriendly to healthcare providers in general, but maybe they have changed. (highly unlikely). NY is just a mess for politics, top to bottom. I don't know anyone in AZ, but there is definitely a need from what I've been told.
 
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But, they're not really concerned about patient safety, it's simply a turf was issue. They'll probably fight it pretty hard until about 15 states get it done and then they'll drop it as the horse will have officially left the barn. As for RxP, there are better options than TCSPP and Alliant. We have FDU, NMSU ISU and Drake, I believe.
I'd recommend FDU and NMSU. I wouldn't recommend Alliant, ever, for anything. I'm not familiar with ISU and Drake, but now I'm curious.

I think more states can achieve Psych RxP, but I don't view Psych RxP as the panacea some believe it could be for the field. The distribution of providers will likely mirror psychiatrists, unless programs and states offer incentives for clinicians to work in rural and underserved areas. Our training as psychologists is being sold short if we just pursue RxP, as most places will want you to Stack & Wack 15-25+/day, which doesn't leave much time for other clinical work, research, etc.

For those curious about prescribing jobs outside of a solo practice, there are definitely options, but recruiters are still hit and miss about understanding psychologists prescribing. Beware of Stack & Wack places who think the vast majority of patients should be 15min med checks, and new patients only need a 30min intake. Those can be a grind, and if their patient mix has more acute cases and more more severe cases, that setup could be a nightmare for some (me included).

I only seriously considered calls from hospital systems that came with faculty appointments/options, which eliminated like 90% of the prescribing calls, who were almost exclusively looking to fill higher-volume out-pt clinics. Full disclosure, me being a neuropsych who worked in head injury was a big draw for most/all of the calls that fit my requirements. I had one military adjacent opportunity (hired as a civilian) where I'd be a neuropsych doing head injury assessment, but I would have time in the out-pt clinic to do therapy, prescribing, or a combo. They were willing to pay me $$$, but I'd have to live in Texas, which was one of the dealbreakers.I also had one hospital system (Louisiana) offer me carte blanche as to how I'd arrange my day. They wanted me as both a neuropsych & also prescriber. We explored some different setups, varying the days I'd do neuropsych and the days I'd be out-pt to prescribe. This was pretty appealing to me, but I ended up going with a different offer for other reasons.

Long story short....most jobs I've seen are for prescribers to work out-pt. If you go this route, work for yourself because most places will just grind you with volume and why give away a % when you should be able to keep everything? You can earn very good money running your own cash practice, and you should be able to fill up pretty quickly and only work 25-40+hr/wk. Since I do quite a bit of legal work as a neuropsych, the money is better just doing the work I am doing now, though as a generalist or other type of specialist, I can definitely see how prescribing could bump up hourly earnings with very little overhead cost added.
 
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I'm currently in the FDU program (it's a very reputable program). I will say that my meeting with the dean at the med school I am an assistant professor on went extremely well and is very promising. They were the ones proposing the prospect of getting it live in 2 years which aligns well with our committee's efforts to introduce the bill by late 2024 to be considered in the 2025 session. The dean of the division I met oversees multiple programs across disciplines (e.g., DNP, PA), and my pitch to them about adding the M.S.CP. program adds additional value and diversity to a division that already demonstrates such efforts by having similar yet different disciplines and licensed professions.
 
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Anyone by chance currently at ISU’s program/know someone who has attended? Curious about the quality of its curriculum.
 
Anyone by chance currently at ISU’s program/know someone who has attended? Curious about the quality of its curriculum.

I can’t answer your question, but while we’re looking at the program, is it really $52,000 for out of state students?
 
I can’t answer your question, but while we’re looking at the program, is it really $52,000 for out of state students?
That sounds about my right. My wife is starting their PA program this Fall and the out of state is about $140k vs $80k for in state. I think their MSCP has quite a bit of funding/scholarships available if I’m remembering correctly.
 
That sounds about my right. My wife is starting their PA program this Fall and the out of state is about $140k vs $80k for in state. I think their MSCP has quite a bit of funding/scholarships available if I’m remembering correctly.

If you can get that funding that would be good. Otherwise, FDU, NMSU, and Drake are cheaper options, but keep in mind that Drake isn’t APA designated yet.
 
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