PsyD (Adler) or MSW (University of Chicago)? Please help!

[mdm1117]

Hi Everyone,

So my predicament is that I got into the University of Chicago's MSW program and the Adler School of Professional Psychology's PsyD program and I'm very confused as to which I should matriculate into. My ultimate goal is to open a private practice, which I know I can do with either degree. My concern with the PsyD is that it is extremely expensive. My concern with the MSW (eventually LCSW) is the training is very short and the salaries are much lower than people with doctoral degrees in psych (I'm not going into this profession for the money, but I would like to live comfortably). I am also worried that with only 2 years of training for the MSW that I will not be as well-prepared as a graduate of a 5 year PsyD program, but do I want to be in debt over $120,000 after I finish school? Is taking on this kind of debt worth it? The PsyDs that I've talked to have been practicing for several years and their schooling costed much less than mine will.

The PsyD is more in line with what I would love to study, but I don't know if I can stomach the loans.

I was also wondering if with the MSW, if I start out working in the school system, can I eventually open a private practice?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I really have to decide by Friday (5/15/09).

Thanks!

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[cara susanna]

This is just one example here that I'm sure can be contradicted, but my friend goes to Adler and absolutely hates it. She's transferring out into an experimental MS program, actually, and told me that a lot of her cohort is trying to get out as well.

 

[mdm1117]

Wow, that's horrible!

 

[krisrox]

I'd go for U of C. You'll have a lot more opportunities with that name behind you than Adler.

 

[zdravo]

U of C will open more doors for you and you will get a higher quality of training there in 2 years than you will at Adler in 5 (I am pretty familiar with both programs, and have known clinicians from both). However this is just speaking generally. There are always exceptions and you will find some Adler students to be great clinicians. The U of C MSW program has a great reputation in the Chicago area. You could always do a PsyD later down the road, at a school that better fits what you are looking for in a PsyD program.

 

[zdravo]

Oh, and to answer your question about private practice, I believe you would need to accumulate a certain number of hours after completing the MSW (Maybe an MSW person on here can clarify this, and I think it varies by state but is usually 1-2 years), and then you could sit for the LCSW licensure exam. After getting an LCSW, you could work in private practice.

 

[mdm1117]

This is just one example here that I'm sure can be contradicted, but my friend goes to Adler and absolutely hates it. She's transferring out into an experimental MS program, actually, and told me that a lot of her cohort is trying to get out as well.

What program was she in at Adler? PsyD or masters? Why did she hate it?

 

[mdm1117]

Oh, and to answer your question about private practice, I believe you would need to accumulate a certain number of hours after completing the MSW (Maybe an MSW person on here can clarify this, and I think it varies by state but is usually 1-2 years), and then you could sit for the LCSW licensure exam. After getting an LCSW, you could work in private practice.

I know after you've clocked the 2000 hours and passed the licensing exam for your LCSW you can do private practice, but I was wondering if you can do school social work and then move to private practice? If there are different licensing exams, etc.

 

[cara susanna]

PsyD. I'll PM you with what she told me, since it may be revealing information.

 

[docma]

UC has a great program and a history of preparing LCSWs who go into private practice. Especially if you hope to remain in the midwest, you will have access to a network of practitioners doing clinical work. You might ask to talk with some of them who have graduated in the last decade to see how the practice set up process has gone. Many folks go into clinical work in agencies and then add a private practice. UC would definitely be a more direct and less expensive route to private clinical practice.

 

[psychmama]

Hi. I just wanted to add that many LCSWs i know in private practice go for additional training after they graduate. Most popular seem to be advanced family training or analytic. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[WannaBeDrMe]

I know after you've clocked the 2000 hours and passed the licensing exam for your LCSW you can do private practice, but I was wondering if you can do school social work and then move to private practice? If there are different licensing exams, etc.

Hours will vary state to state. My state is 3000 hours of paid post MSW, post-pre clinical license practice and then passing ASWB exam and finishing your continuing ed. Plus, your supervision must be a minimum number of hours... for us, it's 100 hours but I've seen higher in other states.

As for school social work, that will vary state to state too. In my state, the school social work license is issued through the Department of Public Instruction. It is a teaching credential... not a clinical license. The school social worker's role is mostly non-clinical unless otherwise specified. Social work began in the schools... but as case management... and that's how school social work remains.

At least in my state... mental health therapists (who might be LCSW's) are contracted and they handle clinical needs. It's broken down as follows... counselors -- general advising, scheduling, and testing as well as referral to other professionals... school social workers -- attendance, homelessness, not-eating, bullying, and referrals... some groups as well, and school psychologists -- testing and evaluation and referral...

So, I don't know if that helped with the question at all... the answer is that you can be a school social worker and a clinical social worker but the chances of you being able to accumulate true clinical hours as a paid school social worker are rare. You'd need to find other means of fulfilling the 3000 (or 2000 in your case) hours of paid clinical work. At that time, you could hold a school social work license and a clinical license. I did a school social work semester to complete some of my research on a school pop and the SSW at that school was an LCSW who worked in a very, very well respected private practice each evening.

 

[PsyDr]

so you want the training but you don't want to pay for it?


how about waiting a year and applying to funded programs?

 

[apumic]

Well, from a cost-benefit perspective... As I understand, it's generally a good rule of thumb to never take out more in educational loans (UG and grad school combined) than what you expect to make the first year or two after licensure in a given career field. A Clinical Psychologist can expect to make around $65-75k within the first few years following licensure. If you're doing well right now and have $0 UG debt, then you should cap your grad school loans at $75k or so for clinical psych. As for the MSW/LCSW, the OOH lists avg salaries for social workers around $30-45k, so I would cap your overall debt around $40k. Assuming you want to pay off your debt in 10 years, which would mean you pay approximately an additional 38% in interest (assuming a Stafford loan at 6.8%), this means you would be spending a bit over 10% of your income on student loans.

However...over your lifetime, a psychologist is going to make more... My suggestion would be to wait a year and reapply to funded programs. Graduating program a funded program would not only save you money, it would also likely help you career-wise as funded programs are generally better-respected.

 

[mdm1117]

I don't think I would qualify for a funded PhD program. My GPA is great and so are my letters of recommendation, but I'm a bad test taker, so my GRE wasn't that great. Also, I have to stay in the Chicago area since I own a home, so even if there are out-of-state funded PsyD programs, I wouldn't be able to apply to them.

I'm not sure about the MSW, just because they come from such a different view point than psychologists. I'm worried that I won't like the classes at U of C because that's really not where my interests lie.

Going to U of C, I would still come out with 50,000-55,000 worth of loans versus $120,000-$140,000 for the PsyD program.

Well, from a cost-benefit perspective... As I understand, it's generally a good rule of thumb to never take out more in educational loans (UG and grad school combined) than what you expect to make the first year or two after licensure in a given career field. A Clinical Psychologist can expect to make around $65-75k within the first few years following licensure. If you're doing well right now and have $0 UG debt, then you should cap your grad school loans at $75k or so for clinical psych. As for the MSW/LCSW, the OOH lists avg salaries for social workers around $30-45k, so I would cap your overall debt around $40k. Assuming you want to pay off your debt in 10 years, which would mean you pay approximately an additional 38% in interest (assuming a Stafford loan at 6.8%), this means you would be spending a bit over 10% of your income on student loans.

However...over your lifetime, a psychologist is going to make more... My suggestion would be to wait a year and reapply to funded programs. Graduating program a funded program would not only save you money, it would also likely help you career-wise as funded programs are generally better-respected.

 

[WannaBeDrMe]

I don't think I would qualify for a funded PhD program. My GPA is great and so are my letters of recommendation, but I'm a bad test taker, so my GRE wasn't that great. Also, I have to stay in the Chicago area since I own a home, so even if there are out-of-state funded PsyD programs, I wouldn't be able to apply to them.

I'm not sure about the MSW, just because they come from such a different view point than psychologists. I'm worried that I won't like the classes at U of C because that's really not where my interests lie.

Going to U of C, I would still come out with 50,000-55,000 worth of loans versus $120,000-$140,000 for the PsyD program.

Consider what you want to be doing after you finish... the population you seek to serve. If public service is your thing and you consolidate into Direct loans, your loans will be entirely forgiven after you make your first 120 payments. Depending on your payment plan... that would vary but you could still do the math and kinda guesstimate. Options for repayment include income-contingent, standard, extended, etc, etc, etc...

There aer also other loan repayment options. Some Fed positions will offer cancellation as an incentive for a position that they need filled immediately... some states cancel out, the rural health service corps, the national public health officer thingee... lots of potential... just a lot of leg work to get there. Something to look into regardless of which program you choose.

Good luck with your decision. In know it's not an easy one.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I'm not sure about the MSW, just because they come from such a different view point than psychologists. I'm worried that I won't like the classes at U of C because that's really not where my interests lie.

Going to U of C, I would still come out with 50,000-55,000 worth of loans versus $120,000-$140,000 for the PsyD program.

A Psy.D. and MSW is an apples and oranges comparison. You need to look at what you want to do, because they have different foci, scopes of practice, etc.