PT direct access to jeopardize ATC?

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Hi my name is Meg. I am currently a senior in the George Washtington's Undergraduate Athletic Training program. After I graduate I am hopefully going to a Doctor of Physical Therapy program in order to pursue a DPT. Lately there has been a lot of talk about physical therapists gaining direct access, thus the push for the DPT rather than the PT license. Unlike Athletic Trainer's, Physical Therapists never had the ability to diagnose a patient. However, due to direct access, Physical Therapist's will have the ability to do so. As I will soon be a licensed athletic trainer and going on to pursue a DPT, I am skeptical as to what the health care system will soon look like. So what comes to mind for me now is that because physical therapists are gaining direct access, will the significance of an athletic trainer's strength to both evaluate and treat a patient be jeopardized?

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Why would you think that PTs don't diagnose? While it is not within our (or an ATC's) scope to provide "medical diagnoses," a HUGE component of what a PT does is diagnosis. Elements of patient/client management in physical therapy include: examination, evaluation, DIAGNOSIS, prognosis (including plan of care), intervention, and outcomes. This is taken directly from the APTA Guide to Physical Therapy Practice. In our practice as PTs, diagnosis consists of "(b)oth the process and the end result of evaluating examination data, which the physical therapist organizes into defined clusters, syndromes, or categories to help determine the prognosis (including the plan of care) and the most appropriate intervention strategies." How do you think we would manage a pt who comes in with an rx to "evaluate and treat?" Regardless of the medical diagnosis made by the physician (or lack thereof), we as PTs always perform a thorough physical therapy examination and provide a diagnosis.
 
Nonetheless how do you think this will affect the current roles of an athletic trainer and physical therapist?
 
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Why do you think it would jeopardize the athletic trainer? A PT CANNOT legally work as an athletic trainer. They cannot be the one providing sideline coverage for athletics. That wouldn't change if they get direct access.
 
They are two completely different professions. A PT is a PT, with or without direct access, and an ATC is ATC, with or without PTs having direct access. Your whole point initially was made based on the (erroneous) assumption that a PT can't diagnose. I don't know what you are looking for ...
 
Hi my name is Meg Tyner. I am currently a senior in the George Washtington's Undergraduate Athletic Training program. After I graduate I am hopefully going to a Doctor of Physical Therapy program in order to pursue a DPT. Lately there has been a lot of talk about physical therapists gaining direct access, thus the push for the DPT rather than the PT license. Unlike Athletic Trainer's, Physical Therapists never had the ability to diagnose a patient. However, due to direct access, Physical Therapist's will have the ability to do so. As I will soon be a licensed athletic trainer and going on to pursue a DPT, I am skeptical as to what the health care system will soon look like. So what comes to mind for me now is that because physical therapists are gaining direct access, will the significance of an athletic trainer's strength to both evaluate and treat a patient be jeopardized?

As Yoginis has said, PTs can diagnose. It is an integral element of the Patient/client management model leading to optimal outcomes. ATCs are not PTs, nor are PTs ATCs. The two are different professions. The scope of ATCs is not the same as PTs. Direct access by PTs should not affect the ATCs. Although the patient populations served by both PTs and ATCs may sometimes overlap, the many works PTs do is completely different than that of ATCs.

On the other hand, unfettered direct access will greatly impact the PT profession and the patients PT serves, hopefully for the better.

I don't completely understand what you mean about "the push for the DPT rather than the PT license". One cannot get the PT after their name or practice at all without the PT license. Licensure is a must if a newly graduated DPT wants to practice. The goal of the DPT is to educate students to be capable of autonomous practice.
 
Hi my name is Meg Tyner. I am currently a senior in the George Washtington's Undergraduate Athletic Training program. After I graduate I am hopefully going to a Doctor of Physical Therapy program in order to pursue a DPT. Lately there has been a lot of talk about physical therapists gaining direct access, thus the push for the DPT rather than the PT license. Unlike Athletic Trainer's, Physical Therapists never had the ability to diagnose a patient. However, due to direct access, Physical Therapist's will have the ability to do so. As I will soon be a licensed athletic trainer and going on to pursue a DPT, I am skeptical as to what the health care system will soon look like. So what comes to mind for me now is that because physical therapists are gaining direct access, will the significance of an athletic trainer's strength to both evaluate and treat a patient be jeopardized?

Uh, you are currently pursuing your education in Washington DC, which has unfettered direct access for physical therapists, unless the practice act has been changed in the lat 5 years.I used to see patients off the street when I practiced there. Do you see that it has had an effect with how ATCs are utilized there?
 
I am currently an athletic training student and have not entered the work force as an athletic trainer. So far I have just worked the traditional settings of an athletic trainer. However, I have noticed that athletic trainer's have expanded upon the trational roles of an athletic trainer. I have seen, on multiple occassions, athletic trainer's working in hospitals and with physicians, as physician extendors. I undertand that an ATC it an ATC and a DPT is a DPT, however I feel that sometimes these two overlap greatly in certain areas.
 
What responsibilities do the ATCs carry out in the hospital settings?
 
From my experience I have seen ATC's assist and instruct hospital (out-patient) patients with their rehabilitative exercises. As well, I have seen ATC's team up with PT's and OT's to assist with inpatient care; from daily patient rounds to teaching patients how to use their crutches.
 
Why do you think it would jeopardize the athletic trainer? A PT CANNOT legally work as an athletic trainer. They cannot be the one providing sideline coverage for athletics. That wouldn't change if they get direct access.


Sure they can, they just can't call themselves an athletic trainer.
 
Sure they can, they just can't call themselves an athletic trainer.

Or perform athletic training services. The moment they tape an ankle, evaluate a concussion, or splint a potential fracture they are violating practice acts.
 
ATStudent,

You are wrong to make such a blanket statement like that without first doing your research.
I'm a physical therapist and I work with two high schools in my practice region. I tape ankles and more, evaluate for concussions, and if needed, splint a potential fracture and/or dislocation to stabilize and send to a physician for further work-up. It's in my practice act. I don't call myself a trainer and correct those that do call me a trainer. What' important is that the athletes are getting the care they need by a qualified professional, whether it's from a physical therapist, athletic trainer, or dually-credentialed PT/ATC.
The OP also ought to do her research on the history of physical therapy, the Guide to PT practice, and the definition of direct access before making such a statement.
 
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ATStudent,

You are wrong to make such a blanket statement like that without first doing your research.
I'm a physical therapist and I work with two high schools in my practice region. I tape ankles and more, evaluate for concussions, and if needed, splint a potential fracture and/or dislocation to stabilize and send to a physician for further work-up. It's in my practice act. I don't call myself a trainer and correct those that do call me a trainer. What' important is that the athletes are getting the care they need by a qualified professional, whether it's from a physical therapist, athletic trainer, or dually-credentialed PT/ATC.
The OP also ought to do her research on the history of physical therapy, the Guide to PT practice, and the definition of direct access before making such a statement.

Thank you for this post. As a PT I would screen for a concussion if a scenario presented itself as this would be an appropriate reason to refer. It is required to screen for differential diagnoses. I'm not sure why a PT wouldn't be qualified to tape an ankle or splint a potential fracture.
 
Thank you for this post. As a PT I would screen for a concussion if a scenario presented itself as this would be an appropriate reason to refer. It is required to screen for differential diagnoses. I'm not sure why a PT wouldn't be qualified to tape an ankle or splint a potential fracture.

Is concussion management a part of your practice act? Are you allowed to clear an athlete to return to play with regards to concussions? In the state of Illinois specifically YOU ARE NOT.

Is a PT allowed to handle on-the-field emergencies?

If so, then what is the point of the athletic trainer? This could be good...
 
ATStudent,

You are wrong to make such a blanket statement like that without first doing your research.
I'm a physical therapist and I work with two high schools in my practice region. I tape ankles and more, evaluate for concussions, and if needed, splint a potential fracture and/or dislocation to stabilize and send to a physician for further work-up. It's in my practice act. I don't call myself a trainer and correct those that do call me a trainer. What' important is that the athletes are getting the care they need by a qualified professional, whether it's from a physical therapist, athletic trainer, or dually-credentialed PT/ATC.
The OP also ought to do her research on the history of physical therapy, the Guide to PT practice, and the definition of direct access before making such a statement.

So would you support athletic trainers being reimbursed through insurance for providing rehabilitation services? Because like you said, "the important part is the athlete (patient) getting the care they are need by a qualified professional."
 
Is concussion management a part of your practice act? Are you allowed to clear an athlete to return to play with regards to concussions? In the state of Illinois specifically YOU ARE NOT.

Is a PT allowed to handle on-the-field emergencies?

If so, then what is the point of the athletic trainer? This could be good...

I don't claim to manage concussions regardless of what a practice act says. PT's aren't qualified to do so directly, neither are ATC's. A patient with a concussion, athlete or not, needs to see a physician for management of this problem because it is a medical problem, not an athletic one. Should an ATC be involved in deciding when an athlete can return to sport after a concussion? Absolutely.

IMO, once any person exhibits S/S of a concussion they should be immediately referred to a physician, and should never ever be "managed" by an athletic trainer.
 
IMO, once any person exhibits S/S of a concussion they should be immediately referred to a physician, and should never ever be "managed" by an athletic trainer.

And that's your opinion. Actually I manage concussions on a regular basis. As do many of my colleagues. If I left it up to physicians that my student-athletes would see, I'd have athletes returning to activity the next day because they "didn't suffer a concussion."

It is well within my ability and education to manage sport-related concussions.

And yes it is a "medical problem" and since athletic trainers are medical professionals we do handle "medical problems" ;)
 
And that's your opinion. Actually I manage concussions on a regular basis. As do many of my colleagues. If I left it up to physicians that my student-athletes would see, I'd have athletes returning to activity the next day because they "didn't suffer a concussion."

It is well within my ability and education to manage sport-related concussions.

And yes it is a "medical problem" and since athletic trainers are medical professionals we do handle "medical problems" ;)

I don't see anything wrong with you managing an athlete with, in your opinion, concussion symptoms after a physician has cleared it medically.

Maybe it's just me but it seems like you are very athlete/return to sport biased. We are talking about the brain, not an ankle sprain. To me it progresses in this fashion in terms of importance: medical>ADL's>sport. Is the ultimate goal not to have the person have medical stability ensured, then basic things such as independence with ADL's without any limitations, then return to sport if applicable?
 
Is concussion management a part of your practice act? Are you allowed to clear an athlete to return to play with regards to concussions? In the state of Illinois specifically YOU ARE NOT.

Actually, this was just changed (as in November 15, 2011) and PTs are "allowed" to clear athletes regarding concussions in Pennsylvania, which is where I am from.

http://www.apta.org/Media/Releases/Legislative/2011/11/15/

"A new law establishing standards for managing concussions and traumatic brain injuries will provide better protection of student athletes by requiring that they be immediately removed from participation in an activity when a concussion is suspected. Physical therapists are specifically included as part of the team of health care providers and officials who are designated to make this determination, says the American Physical Therapy Association (APTA)."
 
Ultimately, I believe the role of the athletic trainer depends on the state that you work in. Here in California (no direct access):

"An athletic trainer in the physical therapy arena is a physical therapy aide and must be supervised as a physical therapy aide in accordance with section 2630 of the Business and Professions Code (B&P) and 1399 of the California Code of Regulations (CCR), both can be found on the website of the Physical Therapy Board of California at www.ptbc.ca.gov/. (The buttons are "Laws" for B&P Code and "Regulations" for CCR). Additionally, athletic trainers are not a regulated profession; therefore, there is no governing body. California law does not authorize an athletic trainer to provide health care as defined in B&P Code 2052 and therefore cannot bill as such. A licensed physical therapist that is also an athletic trainer, must be cautious not to confuse the client when working as an athletic trainer. It must be clear to the client that the role as an athletic trainer is for performance enhancement and not health care."

This comes from Athletic Trainers in the Realm of Physical Therapy

In addition, in the state of Washington, where I plan to go to DPT school:

"Except as necessary to provide emergency care of athletic injuries, an athletic trainer shall not provide treatment, rehabilitation, or reconditioning services to any person except as specified in guidelines established with a licensed health care provider who is licensed to perform the services provided in the guidelines" - from http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=18.250.070
 
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Love the debate here………..
Trainer vs evaluate vs therapy vs manage - These designations have different meanings IMO ……..
My first responder / life guard first aid certification allows me to splint and tape-then the EMTs step in then the Medical Doctors. No degree required!!

Thinking: the trainer/therapist job description in addition to state laws and lisc and the patient's occupation vs athletic position, may be of some value in defining the performance role and treatment / follow up etc., Lots of variables.

Obvious and interesting that each state will dictate a different ruling for practice in AT / PT etc.

I am interested in exploring more aspects of this discussion.

Cherokee---thanks for the links.
 
I have been doing a little research lately about the topic of direct access. This discussion truly embodies the discussions that are taking place between several different medical professions vs Physical Therapist. As PT has grown to MPT and then to DPT over the course of 10 or more years now, there have been disagreements and blurred lines, which is seen in the varied laws from state to state. In the end, it seem that no single profession is trying to take over another, yes there is some overlap. The biggest concerns are about patient care, who is best suited for what. Will a DPT miss the signs of a stroke or heart attack? Doctors of other professions that have the ability to medically diagnose and to write prescriptions are acting protective, which could be interpreted poorly, but should be celebrated. It should be viewed as great for the pt, right? I want my doc to be looking out for me AND I want to be able to chose which path my medical care takes, what is good for me, may not be what is good for another. Eastern, Western, Holistic, ect... pt's should be able to be proactive in their care. And as a DPT we need to be aware of medical issues that are beyond our scope and know when to send the pt to a better qualified professional.

Further support for direct access, in current research data shows, people that are using direct access or "self referral" are more inclined to stick to their home exercise programs, take less time off of work, cancel less, and get better faster. In addition, research shows that pt that can self refer, and do not see an MD first are less likely to undergo costly imaging and therefor surgery for back pain (which is sometimes unnecessary). However, I sure would feel bad if I missed one of these big ones and it cost someone quality of life or worse, should I have misdiagnosed or felt I could treat a condition that I was beyond my scope of practice.

It is my understanding that the main push for the DPT degree (rather than Bachelors or Masters PT degrees) is to create graduates and professionals with the training to provide a more viable medical practice, DOCTORS. It is going to take time, as any growth does. Personally, I am becoming a DPT because I desired more knowledge (beyond my current position), and I love all aspects of Physical Therapy, growing pains included. It is important to remember that even with direct access or "self referral", many pt still pay a cash rate because it is still not recognized by some insurance companies. They will NOT pay for PT without a MD (or other medical doctor rx). Typically the rate is more than a pt can afford. This battle is not won yet. Additionally, PT practice is still not being recognized for some government funding that other forms of medicine are benefiting from, ie help in the transition to EMR, which will make the communications between different doctors easier and ergo better for the patients overall care.

To the OP, you should ask yourself what you love. If you are unclear of the myriad of different avenues that DPT can take, do some more observation hours. Maybe you have dollar signs in your eyes... In the sports clinic I worked in as an Aide/Tech, the ATC was on the same rate of pay that I was (no letters after my name yet), and it was not very much. But the education to get a DPT is not cheap either. DPT still has alot of kinks to work out, but the research is being done. Are you willing to stand behind the profession that you chose? You will figure it out, no rush until you do. :)
 
Is concussion management a part of your practice act? Are you allowed to clear an athlete to return to play with regards to concussions? In the state of Illinois specifically YOU ARE NOT.

Is a PT allowed to handle on-the-field emergencies?

If so, then what is the point of the athletic trainer? This could be good...

I don't see that we are excluded from conclusion management anywhere in the IL PT practice act.

I would agree with you in regards to the on field emergencies, as the PT direct access legislation in IL is very restrictive.

Your previous stance regarding ankle taping makes no sense to me.
 
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I don't see that we are excluded from conclusion management anywhere in the IL PT practice act.

This one is an interesting issue I guess. The Illinois High School Association's policy with regards to concussions requires clearance from a healthcare provider. Its policy for concussions specifically states that it recognizes the certified athletic trainer and physician licensed to practice in all branches of medicine (MD/DO) as the only two healthcare professionals with this skill/knowledge.

The State of Illinois has passed a law that "Requires each school board to adopt a policy regarding student athlete concussions and head injuries that is in compliance with the protocols, policies, and by-laws of the Illinois High School Association."

Without actually saying it, state law now says that a PT, chiropractor, EMT, nurse, nurse practioner, physician assistant, etc cannot clear a high school student-athlete after a concussion.
 
So would you support athletic trainers being reimbursed through insurance for providing rehabilitation services? Because like you said, "the important part is the athlete (patient) getting the care they are need by a qualified professional."

Sure, if you only work with athletes like you are trained to do. Physical therapists are trained to work with a wide spectrum of patients, pediatric to geriatric, neurologic to orthopedic, etc, including athletes.
 
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