Publications/presentations before/during/after grad school?

[futureapppsy2]

Hi all,

I know the general breakdown for internship applicants is:

51. How many publications were listed on the Curriculum Vitae that
you submitted to internship sites? (Please estimate if you don't
know the exact number).

Mean = 2.0 Median = 1
SD = 3.1 Mode = 0

None 1078 46 %
1 346 15 %
2 243 10 %
3 211 9 %
4 133 6 %
5 to 9 278 12 %
10 to 14 58 2 %
15 to 19 14 1 %
20 or more 8 0 %


52. How many of these publications are PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL
ARTICLES and are either IN PRESS or IN PRINT? (Please estimate
if you don't know the exact number)

Mean = 1.3 Median = 0
SD = 2.2 Mode = 0

None 1268 56 %
1 360 16 %
2 226 10 %
3 174 8 %
4 87 4 %
5 to 9 142 6 %
10 to 14 16 1 %
15 to 19 5 0 %
20 or more 3 0 %


53. How many presentations were listed on the Curriculum Vitae that
you submitted to internship sites? (Please estimate if you don't
know the exact number).

Mean = 5.4 Median = 3
SD = 5.8 Mode = 0

None 490 21 %
1 267 11 %
2 231 10 %
3 208 9 %
4 130 5 %
5 to 9 553 23 %
10 to 14 287 12 %
15 to 19 111 5 %

Source: http://www.appic.org/match/5_2_2_4_11a_match_about_statistics_surveys_2009a.htm

I'm curious, based on your experience, how many presentations and posters is "average" or "good" when applying to, while in, and after the completion of grad school... Of course, this number will be different for folks depending on their focus, so feel free to give multiple answers. 🙂

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[erg923]

I am not sure, but Im glad to see I'm in the avg of all those. i have 7 (about 2 each year) poster and paper presentations in my ph.d program, and 3 from my masters program. so 10 total. 2 pubs (1 first author, 1 6th author) and 1 in press as 3rd author. For the average ph.d program, i think this is about right. Ive been busy but nothing crazy or spectacular. Unless your goal is academia, and/or a research rep internship site, I think its more about showing that you have been productive and somewhat busy, rather than actual high numbers.

 

[Wildcat06]

our dct (heavy-research school) recommended shooting for one peer-reviewed publication per year while in grad school.

 

[Ollie123]

Applying: Even 1-2 is great, assuming you have a substantive role in producing them and are not just 8th of 9 authors.
During: Depends too much on year, hard to answer.
Other side: Quality > Quantity. I've been told that posters count for virtually nothing and its the pubs that matter. That said, I don't understand how its possible for so many people to have so few - standards are virtually non-existant at many conferences (i.e. you have to submit something truly horrifying, or completely irrelevant to be rejected) so its not like its difficult to find an outlet and I'd figure 1-2 (for the thesis and dissertation) would be the minimum. I've become incredibly frustrated with my publication situation this past year so despite the fact that they don't count for much I've been doing a fair number of presentations and should easily break 20 by the time I graduate. I do them more for networking and fun than I do for the lines on my CV (though they certainly won't hurt). I could easily double that number if I didn't care if they were all at least somewhat significant research projects (even when the results are incoherent and won't be publishable).

I think the reason presentations don't count for much is that the only real limitation on the number you do is money to attend conferences. Even without an active lab there are a fair number of publicly available datasets available for mining, and with an active lab there's an infinite number of exploratory analyses that are certainly enough for a poster. Basically, its easy to get as many as your finances allow so the number seems irrelevant - its just a matter of whether or not you want them to be a substantial contribution to the field. Walk around any conference and you'll see plenty of theory-blind "Gender difference" posters and other complete schlock so clearly many people don't care.

 

[futureapppsy2]

On this topic, can I just say that I'm really not liking the application process time line? I'll only have one peer-reviewed article out when I apply but will likely have an additional 2-3 by the time the academic year ends.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I had 1 and 4 going into internship (from 3.5 years of active researching as a Psy.D.). Looking back, I did a poor job in the beginning in getting my name on things, and I left at least 1-2 pubs out there, and 1-2 presentations. It is really important to get active early, and definitely take every good opportunity offered.

 

[psychgirl77]

I'm in the first year of my program and I have no publications, but 11 presentations/posters (only 4 are first author though, the rest are second author). Really hoping to submit my first article before the end of the semester.

 

[JockNerd]

3rd year counseling psych student, 3 first-author pubs in apa journals (anticipate 4 more firsts before I graduate, hopefully 2 or 3 non-firsts), about a dozen posters, 2 symposium chairings.

I've consistently read what Ollie says on Qual over quant. Especially, how you publish is seen to reflect your potential as a researcher. So, if you have 15 pubs, but you're always fourth and they're in the Ukranian Journal of Transpersonal Physiopsychology, that is seen as reflective of how high you can go, and doesn't count as much as 1 first-authored APA pub.

 

[cmuhooligan]

I'm in my 5th year and I have 8 (all first authored). I hope to have 1 to 2 more first authored and maybe 1 lower authored articles by this summer.

 

[deadmau5]

I'm in the first year of my program and I have no publications, but 11 presentations/posters (only 4 are first author though, the rest are second author). Really hoping to submit my first article before the end of the semester.

wow that is impressive for presentations.

I am wondering how to go about presenting posters at conferences? You do have to submit it to the committee correct? and then you just sort of show up if accepted? I've never done a conference before.

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In response to original q about articles, I would say 1 for each year is pretty good on average. So maybe a few extra would be really good.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I am wondering how to go about presenting posters at conferences? You do have to submit it to the committee correct? and then you just sort of show up if accepted? I've never done a conference before.

It varies by conference, as some will invite you (usually have to be a big name and/or be connected to a large study that is relevant to the topic area), but most you have to apply.

Typically a conference will put out an open call for posters and presentations. Respondants will submit an abstract describing their work, and often for presentations an outline/goals sheet is also requested. It can take anywhere from 1-6+ months to hear back from the conference. If accepted, you have to confirm you availability, and then submit a final draft of your abstract for publication in the conference guide. Some conferences will also make copies for you, though this is hit and miss.

There was a thread on here last year (?) that talked about someone's first conference experience. There were some great tips in there, if you can find the thread.

 

[Ollie123]

Even as a super-research-focused person I'm pretty shocked by the number of first author publications people have! Getting 5-10 publications seems totally reasonable to me, but I can't imagine having that many first authorships. Are these your own studies, public datasets or are your advisors letting you take the lead on papers from their own datasets.

JN and CMU - do you guys do laboratory (experimental) type research or is it mostly survey-based? I'm just curious because even our student projects typically involve running 100-200 participants through a 1-3 hour lab session, and the major lab studies are often involve that many people coming in for several multi-hour sessions. Data collection alone usually takes several years for the faculty studies so I'm trying to figure out how you folks are cranking out pubs that fast🙂

Also - any advice on motivating faculty for those of us who haven't been able to be as productive? I can't seem to get a damn thing out because of a 2-3+ year lag between studies finishing and papers actually being submitted that I'm worried is going to put a serious damper on my ability to be viable for an academic career. Again, I know I mentioned the quantity v. quality issue but there needs to be some balance and there still need to be some signs of productivity.

 

[Psychology 76]

I'm a junior undergraduate and have 3 posters (2 first author)that were presented at conferences. I'll have another 1 or 2 in the spring (non-first author). I hoping to have a published abstract and/or poster poster by this summer. Then, I also have an independent study and honor's thesis to do before I graduate. At least get one presentation from the thesis, maybe more. I hate putting my stats on here but I at least feel like my research experience won't hurt me for grad school applications.

 

[JockNerd]

Are these your own studies, public datasets or are your advisors letting you take the lead on papers from their own datasets.

My data for 2, public data for the third.

JN and CMU - do you guys do laboratory (experimental) type research or is it mostly survey-based?

My stuff was survey-based, large-n work.

Also - any advice on motivating faculty for those of us who haven't been able to be as productive? I can't seem to get a damn thing out because of a 2-3+ year lag between studies finishing and papers actually being submitted that I'm worried is going to put a serious damper on my ability to be viable for an academic career. Again, I know I mentioned the quantity v. quality issue but there needs to be some balance and there still need to be some signs of productivity.

I think I get away with some extra stuff because I've demonstrated some independence in project conceptualization, analysis, and writing, so my adviser lets me run with ideas. I tend to work very, very fast at writing as well. If you think you'd like to run some stuff more independently, I'd just go ahead and ask.

It's not all unicorns and rainbows, though. The flipside of my research productivity is that I have, honestly, pretty pitiful clinical hours. I have FANTASTIC training and supervision, and my supervisors have nothing but nice things to say, but I don't think I'll break 400 hours by the time internship applications comes around.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Also - any advice on motivating faculty for those of us who haven't been able to be as productive? I can't seem to get a damn thing out because of a 2-3+ year lag between studies finishing and papers actually being submitted that I'm worried is going to put a serious damper on my ability to be viable for an academic career. Again, I know I mentioned the quantity v. quality issue but there needs to be some balance and there still need to be some signs of productivity.

While I haven't found particular success in this area (too many balls in the air), I have seen colleagues that have been able to cut out a sub-section of their research, and submit it for a mid-level/state conference poster. Since you are pulling together info for a poster, you expect on that and start to formulate a manuscript from there. The literature review section of the manuscript is most likely going to be pulled from familiar work, so you can often get through it quicker. You may not have a completed manuscript, but you'll have some momentum to bring to your supervisor and say, "Hey....look at what I started. XYZ is where I'm looking to go, and once we get Data Set ABC done, we can go here..." The worst case scenario is you get shot down, and you haven't done a ton of wasted work. The best case scenario is they support you going forward. The middle of the road scenario is you get to do it....but it is put on the back burner until the research is at a point where your mentor thinks you can go forward.

*edit* I guess my "be proactive" is similar to what JockNerd wrote. 😀

Some people like dicing up their research and getting it out there, while others are more protective and want it to come out as a more comprehensive study.....it will depend on your mentor.

*edit 2* Being proactive is particularly useful when you get out and have more independance. I was itching to crunch some numbers, so I found an existing clinical area, and offered to take it on so that I could gain some experience and also have access to data to play with. I wish it were moving faster (I don't have protected research time), but at least I'm doing something.

 

[erg923]

My data for 2, public data for the third.
but I don't think I'll break 400 hours by the time internship applications comes around.

Is your program ok with this? I thought almost all quality internship sites require 500 direct contact hours?

 

[JockNerd]

Is your program ok with this? I thought almost all quality internship sites require 500 direct contact hours?

Except for very clinically oriented folks, people from my site almost never meet 500 hours. I don't think anyone from my lab had 500, except maybe 1 person who came in with a masters. My program has matched at nearly 100% apa-approved over the years I've been here (after clearinghouse).

Since I'm in a counseling psych program, we tend to both be more competitive for and trained toward counseling center internships, which often require fewer hours than, say, a medical center or a consortium.

 

[Ollie123]

Sorry, I realize my last post didn't make the actual problem clear. I have all the data I could want, and have taken the lead on plenty of major national and international posters and talks. We have tons of data that we could publish, my advisor has said he is perfectly happy for me to take the lead on anything I want, and I'm generally comfortable doing so for most things.

The issue is with the transition from manuscript to publication. We had one manuscript that we (meaning myself and the other co-authors) considered "finalized" around June of '08 that still hasn't been submitted. Turnaround time for a manuscript seems to be a minimum of 6 months and it usually takes several iterations before submission (several iterations is normal, but the turnaround time is the problem). Occasionally I pull it out to "Make some minor tweaks" and email it back out, mostly just to serve as a reminder that we need to get it out. I'm reluctant to start writing other things since I don't want to end up juggling too many things. I just want the damn things to get SUBMITTED so I can start on something else, but it doesn't seem to happen. Its resulting in some learned helplessness and a reluctance on my part to actually write anything else, knowing that I'll be lucky if I can get them on my CV before my eventual tenure evaluation, let alone for internship/post-doc.

I'm just trying to figure out the power differential and how I can negotiate this. Part of me wants to say "I'm not working on any new studies until we start actually publishing" - but another part of me likes food and shelter and doesn't want to lose my funding (not that I think it would come to that). There is little pressure on the advisors end because he's tenured, well-respected and is on soft money so the pressure is more to get grants then to publish. I've been starting to give serious consideration to switching advisors, but it seems foolish since this is really the only issue I have. We get along great, the research match is perfect (which is saying a lot, because there's probably only a handful of labs in the country that would meet that criteria), opportunities are plentiful, etc. I'm getting fantastic scientific training in pretty much every way except the publication process, I'm just concerned that I won't have anything to show for it and it will end up holding me back in my career. Finding a post-doc seems easy enough so I'm not concerned about that, but I don't want to have to spend longer than necessary in a post-doc position to make up for a lack of grad school productivity.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to say "Either we need to start publishing, or I need to stop spending so much time in this lab, and more time working with other faculty" without it burning a bridge. I've been up front about my concerns before, but nothing seems to be changing so I'm trying to figure out how much I can lean on this issue and the best way to do so.

 

[cmuhooligan]

JN and CMU - do you guys do laboratory (experimental) type research or is it mostly survey-based?

Mostly quasi-experimental survey (web-based), although a few have been true experiments.

Also, I tend to get several articles from one study. Beacuse I study a hard to sample population, I try to get the most out of every online study I do (i.e., include enough measures for 2 to 3 sub-studies).

I think I'm given a lot of independence mostly due to the fact that my mentors don't have specific expertise on some of the issues I'm looking at, so I kind of have to "go it alone."

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Ollie, I would stay away from a Forced Choice scenario. I'm not sure of the dynamics of the situation, but it seems like you'll need to initiate any movement forward, so you might want to frame it that you are looking to get this out, and you'd like to discuss with him/her what journals would be most appropriate for your manuscript. Obviously you'd want some suggestions in hand, in addition to a possible timeline for the submission. It sounds like it is pretty much there, so the next step is pushing for the mail date. There is no way around the back and forth once it is submitted, but it isn't doing a darn bit of good collecting dust on your (virtual) desk.

 

[Ollie123]

Ollie, I would stay away from a Forced Choice scenario. I'm not sure of the dynamics of the situation, but it seems like you'll need to initiate any movement forward, so you might want to frame it that you are looking to get this out, and you'd like to discuss with him/her what journals would be most appropriate for your manuscript. Obviously you'd want some suggestions in hand, in addition to a possible timeline for the submission. It sounds like it is pretty much there, so the next step is pushing for the mail date. There is no way around the back and forth once it is submitted, but it isn't doing a darn bit of good collecting dust on your (virtual) desk.

Yeah, reviews are expected and fine - I'm just frustrated with the fact that we don't even seem to get things out the door. The one I referenced isn't even a major study, though one that should definitely be publishable in our specialty journal, which has a decent impact factor for a psychology journal ( > 3). As you said, it isn't doing a thing sitting on my virtual desk, and a decent mid-tier publication is certainly better than blank CV. My original plan was to have 3-4 things out or at least in press by now but at the current rate I'll be lucky to achieve that by internship time, which just isn't good enough for the sort of career I am aiming for.

I wasn't serious about saying "Send it out or I stop working". I have a great working relationship with our faculty aside from this issue and wouldn't do that to them and don't think it would reach that level. I'm just frustrated that we seem to focus on starting lots of studies and amassing lots of data, rather than actually doing anything with it, and that it is likely going to hold back my career options, at least in the short-term. I've already had to basically write off the possibility of applying for an F31 because of this, something I knew I wanted to do by my last year in undergrad. I've been feeling a bit cheated because I had other options for grad school I didn't pursue because they didn't seem as research-focused, but I'm now certain would have resulted in me being a better candidate on paper (i.e. more quality publications) even if my actual training wasn't as good.

 

[JockNerd]

Yeah, reviews are expected and fine - I'm just frustrated with the fact that we don't even seem to get things out the door. The one I referenced isn't even a major study, though one that should definitely be publishable in our specialty journal, which has a decent impact factor for a psychology journal ( > 3). As you said, it isn't doing a thing sitting on my virtual desk, and a decent mid-tier publication is certainly better than blank CV. My original plan was to have 3-4 things out or at least in press by now but at the current rate I'll be lucky to achieve that by internship time, which just isn't good enough for the sort of career I am aiming for.

I wasn't serious about saying "Send it out or I stop working". I have a great working relationship with our faculty aside from this issue and wouldn't do that to them and don't think it would reach that level. I'm just frustrated that we seem to focus on starting lots of studies and amassing lots of data, rather than actually doing anything with it, and that it is likely going to hold back my career options, at least in the short-term. I've already had to basically write off the possibility of applying for an F31 because of this, something I knew I wanted to do by my last year in undergrad. I've been feeling a bit cheated because I had other options for grad school I didn't pursue because they didn't seem as research-focused, but I'm now certain would have resulted in me being a better candidate on paper (i.e. more quality publications) even if my actual training wasn't as good.

What holds it up? Editing? I sat down with my adviser for three hours one day to coedit a paper, and now I channel her when I revise my own stuff. This cut revisions in half on subsequent papers.

I would honestly raise this with my adviser if I were you, just as you have (I want more pubs, I'm concerned for my future career, I would like to take greater ownership of projects, etc.). He or she might not be aware you're so concerned.

 

[Ollie123]

What holds it up? Editing?

I wish I knew🙂 I don't think it takes an enormous amount of time to edit things. The edits on things we have gotten back have never been that substantial. Obviously writing can always be made better, but its not like we're sending him garbage he needs to completely rewrite. Writing isn't my greatest strength, but I'm not THAT bad!

I think its just a combination of procrastination, and different priorities given that he doesn't "need" publications in the same way that I need them. I've brought up the issue before, but maybe its time to discuss it again and just make it perfectly clear that the current situation is just not going to cut it. His past students haven't been aiming for as research-intensive a career as I am, so maybe I just need to make it clear that this is priority #1 for me.

PS - Sorry for the thread hijack, but this is hopefully at least somewhat relevant to the topic at hand and this post just really brought all my frustration boiling up to the surface.

 

[cara susanna]

I have... three poster presentations. Which I used to think was pretty good considering my level of schooling, but not so much after this thread 😉

 

[irish80122]

JockNerd is an outlier (in a good way), but then again we already knew that. From what people have told me at my program, 3-5 pubs will get you a job, so shoot for that and realize that it takes many of us grad school and a post-doc to get that.

Another thing to consider is applying for grant funding. Being funded is a requirement for either a job or to get tenured at lots of places nowadays so the sooner you can get experience and get in the system the better. I would trade several pubs for getting a NRSA!

As for me, I am a 3rd year student and I have 1 pub in an APA journal (lost first authorship on a coin toss), 1 manuscript under review (revise & resubmit), 2 about to go out the door. As for posters, I have quite a few.

One thing to keep in mind is it takes a while! You have to gain your advisor's trust (especially if you have an advisor like mine who is quite cautious and is slow to trust), get an idea, get it through IRB, get the data, clean the data, analyze the data, and write it up. For me, I have only had the data from my first project for about 6 months. However, once you get going, it starts working like a machine. I have the follow-up to the first project going now, and I have the follow-up to the follow-up already planned and I am currently applying for outside funding to make it happen.

I hope that helps some.

 

[JockNerd]

I think the entire forum is outliers. I think having a professional identity that's strong enough to make a person suck up time on a forum indicates that the people here are probably more likely to be in the upper ends of involvement. My experience is definitely not standard, and people in my program have fewer pubs and have gotten the kinds of jobs they want. The other facet is that I've been clear about a research career from the get-go, and I've focused on that to the intentional detriment of my clinical hours.

The flipside is that I know people who get handed pubs (literally) because of their adviser's favortism and getting them latched leech-like onto everyone's projects. That kind of thing is a little obvious from a scattered CV with a dozen fifth-authorships, so while people like that may have 10+ pubs they are NOT more competitive than others for academic positions.

 

[irish80122]

I agree with JockNerd that the whole forum is made up of outliers. Just wait until March when everyone gets offers. It is amazing how many board members end up getting into grad school (and darn good ones at that)!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I agree with JockNerd that the whole forum is made up of outliers. Just wait until March when everyone gets offers. It is amazing how many board members end up getting into grad school (and darn good ones at that)!

It definitely has made me more competitive with wanting to get more presentations and pubs. 😀

 

[deadmau5]

i assume networking is really important as well. I mean, I would want to know what everyone else in the department is working on and keep your options for working together open.

try to find out what other people are doing and put a spin on an issue with a new idea?

 

[deadmau5]

i assume networking is really important as well. I mean, I would want to know what everyone else in the department is working on and keep your options for working together open.

try to find out what other people are doing and put a spin on an issue with a new idea?

 

[psychgirl77]

..

 

[JockNerd]

You want to balance spreading yourself out with developing a cohesive, coherent program of work.

 

[futurepsydoc]

Hi Everyone,

I am not sure what to make of the numbers game. I think that I have a healthy interest in research. Though, I have no intentions on being PI or Professor. The publish or perish lifestyle is not for me. I have always seen myself as a clinician first.

That said, I have managed to accumulate the following numbers across my undergraduate studies, completion of a terminal master's degree, and my first year in a clinical psych doctoral program. I was hoping that those who succesfully landed APA internships could give me some feedback about my level of productivity. I plan to continue conducting research, but just enough to be a strong internship applicant down the line. Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.

2 Manuscipts in prep (Both as first author - I got my fingers crossed for these!)
3 Publications (1 Book Chapter as fourth, 1 Book Chapter as third, 1 article as third)
6 Posters (4 as first author, 1 as second author, 1 as third author)
2 Presentations (Master Thesis Defense, Research Colloquim at my Undergrad Inst.)

Thanks for your feedback 🙂

FuturePsyDoc

 

[futureapppsy2]

I agree with JockNerd that the whole forum is made up of outliers. Just wait until March when everyone gets offers. It is amazing how many board members end up getting into grad school (and darn good ones at that)!

I wish! 😉

I do agree that by virtue of posting on this board, a lot of us probably are "outliers."

 

[Ollie123]

Hi Everyone,

I am not sure what to make of the numbers game. I think that I have a healthy interest in research. Though, I have no intentions on being PI or Professor. The publish or perish lifestyle is not for me. I have always seen myself as a clinician first.

That said, I have managed to accumulate the following numbers across my undergraduate studies, completion of a terminal master's degree, and my first year in a clinical psych doctoral program. I was hoping that those who succesfully landed APA internships could give me some feedback about my level of productivity. I plan to continue conducting research, but just enough to be a strong internship applicant down the line. Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.

2 Manuscipts in prep (Both as first author - I got my fingers crossed for these!)
3 Publications (1 Book Chapter as fourth, 1 Book Chapter as third, 1 article as third)
6 Posters (4 as first author, 1 as second author, 1 as third author)
2 Presentations (Master Thesis Defense, Research Colloquim at my Undergrad Inst.)

Thanks for your feedback 🙂

FuturePsyDoc

Don't fall in the demographic you were asking for (people who have gotten APA internships) but just a quick glance at the data shows you are well over the average for those stats. I assume you aren't looking to go to Brown, MGH, Western Psych, etc. so I suspect your research credentials will be more than fine from a purely numbers perspective.

Though I will add that "Master's thesis defense" should not count as a presentation, and will definitely look like padding if it is listed as such on your CV. If you gave a talk at a conference based off your master's then that is a different story, but giving the defense presentation is otherwise encompassed in "I have a master's degree".

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I wish I knew🙂 I don't think it takes an enormous amount of time to edit things. The edits on things we have gotten back have never been that substantial. Obviously writing can always be made better, but its not like we're sending him garbage he needs to completely rewrite. Writing isn't my greatest strength, but I'm not THAT bad!

 

[TenaciousGirl]

What kind of practicum hours are you all keeping? I find it extremely tough to find spare time to develop these kinds of stats when I'm required to do 15-20 hours of practicum a week plus class and dissertation research.

 

[cmuhooligan]

What kind of practicum hours are you all keeping? I find it extremely tough to find spare time to develop these kinds of stats when I'm required to do 15-20 hours of practicum a week plus class and dissertation research.

I'm in my 5th year and I have a shade over 1,000.

 

[TenaciousGirl]

I'm in my 5th year and I have a shade over 1,000.

total? In 2010 alone, I'll get around 800. Have you been able to first-author anything ?

 

[TenaciousGirl]

I'm in my 5th year and I have a shade over 1,000.

sorry, I just read one of your previous posts about first authoring.

 

[KTpsych]

total? In 2010 alone, I'll get around 800. Have you been able to first-author anything ?

Wow---how do you get 800 contact hours a year?

 

[TenaciousGirl]

Wow---how do you get 800 contact hours a year?

How? I go to one of those nasty professional schools that everyone on here seems to dislike so much. Depending on the year in school, we're required to do a certain number of practicum hours. Of those 800 practicum hours, I think about 700 will be counted as "contact hours"

 

[manko7]

Mostly quasi-experimental survey (web-based), although a few have been true experiments.

Also, I tend to get several articles from one study. Beacuse I study a hard to sample population, I try to get the most out of every online study I do (i.e., include enough measures for 2 to 3 sub-studies).

I think I'm given a lot of independence mostly due to the fact that my mentors don't have specific expertise on some of the issues I'm looking at, so I kind of have to "go it alone."

Hello cmuhooligan,

Don't want to offend cmuhooligan. But I don't see how a survey can be considered quasi-experimental. Are you actually manipulating a variable and maintaining controls over your experimental condition? Online surveys, by their nature, usually do not allow this. Surveys are studies of opinion.

This is an important point to clarify for folks who are asking about number of pubs. In general it is easier to conduct a web-based survey than an actual experiment. Hence unless one has an established , well-coordinated lab it will generally require more time to conduct an experiment than a survey. Therefore a lower publication count is expected with experiments or quasi-experiments.

 

[SingingCow]

Hello cmuhooligan,

Don't want to offend cmuhooligan. But I don't see how a survey can be considered quasi-experimental. Are you actually manipulating a variable and maintaining controls over your experimental condition? Online surveys, by their nature, usually do not allow this. Surveys are studies of opinion.

This is an important point to clarify for folks who are asking about number of pubs. In general it is easier to conduct a web-based survey than an actual experiment. Hence unless one has an established , well-coordinated lab it will generally require more time to conduct an experiment than a survey. Therefore a lower publication count is expected with experiments or quasi-experiments.

It is possible to conduct "quasi-experimental" studies and probably "experiments" online. It is relatively common in social psychology, namely the study of social cognition and emotion. The Implicit Association Test is a good example: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ Designing a web-based study involves as much care and consideration as a "real" experiment. Although some of these studies appear in a survey format, it does not mean it is impossible to manipulate certain variables.

 

[cmuhooligan]

Hello cmuhooligan,

Don't want to offend cmuhooligan. But I don't see how a survey can be considered quasi-experimental. Are you actually manipulating a variable and maintaining controls over your experimental condition? Online surveys, by their nature, usually do not allow this. Surveys are studies of opinion.

This is an important point to clarify for folks who are asking about number of pubs. In general it is easier to conduct a web-based survey than an actual experiment. Hence unless one has an established , well-coordinated lab it will generally require more time to conduct an experiment than a survey. Therefore a lower publication count is expected with experiments or quasi-experiments.

No worries, you didn't offend me, but yes, some have been quasi-experimental. I agree with the previous poster regarding the use of quasi-experimental designs, but I also agree with you that true experiments often times can take longer to complete, and hence an individual focusing on this design exclusively may yield a lower publication number. However, both designs have their strengths (i.e., one is not necessarily better than the other).

 

[manko7]

It is possible to conduct "quasi-experimental" studies and probably "experiments" online. It is relatively common in social psychology, namely the study of social cognition and emotion. The Implicit Association Test is a good example: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ Designing a web-based study involves as much care and consideration as a "real" experiment. Although some of these studies appear in a survey format, it does not mean it is impossible to manipulate certain variables.

Hi Singingcow,

I apologize for this short reply. My previous post was lost when the site inexplicably asked me to log in again. I hate that it did not upload my previous response that I had taken so much time to write.

Briefly, an experiment requires randomized assignment and control over extraneous variables. Opinions may vary on quasi-designs but they may not have randomized assigment (e.g. gender studies). But will at least attempt control over the extraneous variables. How can you control over extraneous variables in an online design? Participants can be sitting in the dark with pink frilly underwear on their heads while listening to depeche mode!

Whether the phenomena is examined by experiment or online study does not make a statement of value. What is important is to pick the best design for the phenomena of interest. Again, I don't mean to offend. I'm just pointing out that some designs do not lend themselves to speedy publication.

 

[Ollie123]

Briefly, an experiment requires randomized assignment and control over extraneous variables.

Not true. The difference between experiments and quasi-experiments is manipulation of the IV. Randomization is "best" but is also not strictly necessary for something to be an experiment. An experiment is when the IV is controlled by the experimenter. Control over other variables is certainly a critical issue for various kinds of validity, but isn't strictly necessary for something to be considered an experiment. This is where the whole discussion of efficacy versus effectiveness in therapy research came from...the fact that researchers were exerting too much control over extraneous variables at the expense of external validity.

Certainly, running a true experiment online poses a number of problems and challenges and does raise all kinds of validity questions, but it is possible and depending on the study - may be ideal (i.e. hard to test the efficacy of online treatment protocols in an offline format).

 

[cmuhooligan]

How can you control over extraneous variables in an online design? Participants can be sitting in the dark with pink frilly underwear on their heads while listening to depeche mode!

These are legitimate concerns; however, data seems to suggest that online samples are generally as "good" as in vivo samples, and in some situations (e.g., assessing sensitive information, such as sexual behaviors) could be a better option. A good article discussing the validity of online studies is:

Gosling, S. D., Vazire, S., Srivastava, S., & John, O. P. (2004). Should we trust web-based studies? A comparative analysis of six preconceptions about Internet questionnaires. American Psychologist. 59, 93-104.

 

[futureapppsy2]

^
I think this is especially true when your research revolves around small or hard-to-reach populations, as mine does.

 

[manko7]

Not true. The difference between experiments and quasi-experiments is manipulation of the IV. Randomization is "best" but is also not strictly necessary for something to be an experiment. An experiment is when the IV is controlled by the experimenter. Control over other variables is certainly a critical issue for various kinds of validity, but isn't strictly necessary for something to be considered an experiment. This is where the whole discussion of efficacy versus effectiveness in therapy research came from...the fact that researchers were exerting too much control over extraneous variables at the expense of external validity.

Certainly, running a true experiment online poses a number of problems and challenges and does raise all kinds of validity questions, but it is possible and depending on the study - may be ideal (i.e. hard to test the efficacy of online treatment protocols in an offline format).

Hi Ollie,

I think you are right on one front and incorrect on another. I think you are correct in the belief that you must manipulate the independent variable in order to qualify as an experiment. We do not disagree on this point.

But we disagree on the point of random assignment. If each member of the sample population does not have an equivalent chance of being assigned to each of the treatment groups then you cannot say the design is experimental. The reason is that one must ensure that each group is as similar as possible so that any changes in the dependent variable can only be attributed to different levels of the independent variable.

If both groups are not similar at onset then you cannot (in theory) attribute changes solely to differing levels of the Indenpendent variable. You would have error variance from pre-existing differences. This is why experiments are considered "gold standard."

Your point about the external validity of generalizing from lab to practice is an important one. But is not quite germane to whether a design is experiment vs. quasi-experiment. I agree with you- the experiment has limitations and by necessity a quasi-design is sometimes the only way to accurately study a phenomena of interest.

But that leads to a question of probability. Can we live with an amount of uncertainty (or unexplained error variance) in our models?

Thats the limitation of psychology. We can only control so much variance.

Cmuhooligan has provided an interesting article. Thank you Cmuhooligan. I would like to look this one over. Maybe when I board a plane for an eventual internship interview (hopefully!!).