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Publishing Papers

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by mrmandrake, May 1, 2007.

  1. mrmandrake

    mrmandrake 7+ Year Member

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    Hello,

    I was wondering if anyone had a good guess as to what percentage of med school applicants have their name on at least 1 paper?

    I co-authored a paper awhile back and am working on another one. Just wondering how that will make me stand out. Thanks.
     
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  3. mrmandrake

    mrmandrake 7+ Year Member

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    bump ... no one knows about papers? any insight is appreciated.
     
  4. SupergreenMnM

    SupergreenMnM Peanut, not chocolate 2+ Year Member

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    While research is generally considered an important part of an application, it is not a requirement. I believe that most pre meds have been involved in research, but I believe few have published, of those even fewer as first author. Any publications will help you stand out, much more so if you're first author on one.
     
  5. Dr.Inviz

    Dr.Inviz Banned Banned

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    Pending awesome stats, a paper will help get you into a top 10 academic medical school.
     
  6. Law2Doc

    Law2Doc 5K+ Member Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    The majority do not have any publications. If I had to totally guess I would say about 20%. But I have no hard facts to base this on, just based on the statistically insignificant group of folks I know who went the allo route.
     
  7. gsmithers68

    gsmithers68 2+ Year Member

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    It depends what you mean by co-author... I think being 'published' is something I would say < 30% of applicants have... but in terms of actually writing a paper and being a 'co-author' (i.e. first two or three authors of a publication) the number drops to even a lower percentage probably <10%. If you have a co-authored paper that you assembled figures for, presented at conferences, etc. I think this is a huge bonus to an app and makes you stand out as long as you use it as leverage in the right way even more so than the former 'published' applicants. Just a discrepancy in this publication business I have seen a lot of people not mention.
     
  8. mrmandrake

    mrmandrake 7+ Year Member

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    Thanks guys,

    I was just worried because I quit volunteering recently (after 3 months) because I was bored of cleaning hospital beds and gurneys and instead spent a lot more time on research.

    Just wanted to know if I was wasting my time and if I would be seen in a bad light because of it. Thanks again.
     
  9. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Understand that I only see applications to one top tier research school. I'd make a guess that the proportion of applicants with at least one publication (not counting "under consideration" which is major B.S.), is 5% or less.

    Of course, for MSTP applicants it should be much higher and is.
     
  10. gsmithers68

    gsmithers68 2+ Year Member

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    Um, why does this have anything to do with your co-authorship on a paper? :laugh: I only volunteered for 3 months myself too... similar situation. Just make sure you shadow some physicians for extended periods of time too and that is plenty of clinical exposure.... the co-authorship is a total different soft factor for your app than your clinical exposure though... not related at all IMHO.
     
  11. mrmandrake

    mrmandrake 7+ Year Member

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    Well, I brought this up because I wanted to know if research should take a priority over volunteering. Because I work and go to school full time and the volunteer program I am in requires 5hours/week, I had to quit volunteering to continue making good contributions to my research team.

    To that end, I was wondering how much I would stand out. I will take your advice and try to shadow a physician for a good amount of time. Thanks.
     
  12. ssquared

    ssquared Member 2+ Year Member

    We still should put papers "under consideration" down on our app, though? I'm second author on a paper that is being submitted tomorrow and I doubt will have been accepted for publication by June. Is it ok to say "under review"? I mean, it's true....even if it does sound like BS....
     
  13. mrmandrake

    mrmandrake 7+ Year Member

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    Well I was a third author on a paper in computer science (Datagrids) that was presented at a conference. I am a non trad applicant. Now working on a paper dealing with spectroscopy where I also will probably end up third author.
     
  14. chickenlittle84

    chickenlittle84 2+ Year Member

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    What about co-authorship on publications that are important in the social policy/advocacy world? By important, I mean one that is being actively used by local policy makers and advocacy organizations? (in the context of someone who wants to pursue a career in medicine working with underserved communities and health policy). What is the best way to present (or leverage as a previous poster said) such work?
     
  15. mrmandrake

    mrmandrake 7+ Year Member

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    So would you say that this is small but good addition to an application or a strong one that may turn your decision in an "iffy" application?

    In other words, are you impressed by research? Thank you.
     
  16. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Adcom members at my school seem to be impressed with publications.

    Let's say we have two applicantgs with the same major and the same gpa from the same school. Same MCAT score. Oh, and they're identical twins! :p

    Twin A: 3 mos volunteer work, plus 9 mos research & a publication
    Twin B: 9 mos volunteer work, plus 3 mos research but no publication

    Top research school is going to go with Twin A. Might be that a school geared toward preparing primary care providers might find Twin B a better applicant but I don't have experience with those adcoms.
     
  17. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    You certainly want to list this as an experience in on the AMCAS. There is a category called "publication". Put the citation in the description section. No need to put "hours", contact person, phone, etc.
     
  18. DoctorPLASTIC

    DoctorPLASTIC Banned Banned

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    I did research and was published...........and it taught me to NEVER do research again!!:laugh:
     
  19. Green Pirate

    Green Pirate Neurotic Neuro Enthusiast 5+ Year Member

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    you probably got stuck with lame research. the research im currently doing has been the most rewarding experience of my college career so far. :thumbup:
     
  20. gsmithers68

    gsmithers68 2+ Year Member

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    Believe it or not. Last June I applied and one of my ECs was I anticipated a publication from the work I have done over the past two years. A year later almost and I am just finishing the manuscript for submission to a review board. Granted I am not first author on the paper vs. third and I did most of the writing, I think it is completely fine to list future pulications as an EC... I mean adcoms understand that this process takes place over almost an entire year and a lot can happen between when you submit your AMCAS app and March... Definitely put down this as an EC. You would be doing yourself a disservice not to.
     
  21. Pinkertinkle

    Pinkertinkle 2003 Member 10+ Year Member

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    Put it as Submitted and date. That's worth something.
     
  22. Quix

    Quix Herr Professor Moderator Emeritus 2+ Year Member

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    MDApps:
    The demographic will also depend on whether you are considering non-trads. Some of us have already established academic careers before trying the medical school thing with publications to boot.
     
  23. DoctorPLASTIC

    DoctorPLASTIC Banned Banned

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    Well........ I performed surgeries on birds and their brains and then imposed neurogenesis of the hipocampal neurons that I had previously severed.....so yeah sounds kind of lame:sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

    It just takes too much time, and all I got was a lousy publication to my name that is useless from here on out. Sure it may have got me in med school but it wasnt fun.
     
  24. emaj1n

    emaj1n M1 2+ Year Member

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    I agree. Clinical exposure is much more important than publishing. Also shadowing a physician is an unwritten requirement, in my experience. If you can, try to hook up with a family practice physician. At this point, schools are interested in knowing that you have witnessed (and discussed) the doctor-patient relationship from a non-patient perspective.

    Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
     
  25. Mav2008

    Mav2008

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    If you have submitted a paper as a first-author, and it is currently under review by a prestigious journal, how much weight does this carry? Will schools think this is BS because you have not yet been officially published? Also, how much weight do published, first-author abstracts carry?
     
  26. emaj1n

    emaj1n M1 2+ Year Member

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    It's impossible to know how much "weight" research or publishing carries without taking your entire application into consideration.

    The AMCAS has plenty of space to list extra-currics. When you mention your research, comment on how you have submitted a paper to X journal.

    Generally speaking, I don't think schools will think any part of your application is a lie, if that's what you mean by "BS." They are going to look at the AMCAS and secondaries, invite you for an interview, and then find out if you are the real deal. Do expect to talk about the submitted paper if it's on your AMCAS. In fact, be prepared to talk about anything and everything on your AMCAS.
     
  27. gsmithers68

    gsmithers68 2+ Year Member

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    Third is better than eighth. I'd say that is a fine spot to be in honestly. With one pub and another on the way... don't worry about research experience you are far and beyond the average applicant in research experience and publications. I would focus on the clinical exposure aspect of your app... that sounds like the best place to spend more time... again, find some physicians to shadow and also look into volunteering at some clinics around the area you are from that maybe are involved in treating the poor or uninsured... you can also look into specific clinics for diseases like HIV or whatnot too. I think that will make you a shoe-in where ever you want with your research experience.
     
  28. enigma85

    enigma85 7+ Year Member

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    At Case Western, a research-focused medical school, 26% of matriculants last year had papers published. This includes matriculants to CCLCM and the MSTP program which are even more research-focused than the regular program.

    http://casemed.case.edu/admissions/class_profile.cfm

    That doesn't answer your original question, but it does show a marked preference for students with publications.
     
  29. ry2140

    ry2140 r yoon

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    i think when applying to med school, your gpa and MCATs are most important. i applied this year with 4 co-authored papers (7 total now, with 3 more pending) and have only interviewed at 5 schools (2 accepts, 2 wait, 1 unheard). ...GPA and MCATs get your foot in the door, papers get you that phone call is what i believe.
     
  30. CCLCMer

    CCLCMer CCLCM Alum c/o 2011 7+ Year Member

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    I'm a student at CCLCM. Just to clarify, applying to the Case MSTP or CCLCM is NOT like applying to a regular MD program. All applicants to these programs are required to have significant research experience. I'm talking about people who have at least a year or two of research where you do things like take time off after college to work in a lab full time. Or you do an undergrad honors thesis while you're in college and spend all your college summers in the lab full time (which I did). CCLCM is an MD program, but it's not a typical MD program since we're so research-focused. Two of the 32 people in my class came in already having their PhD, and at least half a dozen others have their MS. Even a lot of the younger people took a year or two off to do research before applying to med school. So it's not surprising that so many of of us have already published papers. But this is not the norm for most med schools applicants or matriculants, including the main Case UP. I'm not saying that research experience will hurt you if you want to apply to the UP. But it's not mandatory.

    OP, in answer to your question, it's a very small number. A lot of applicants to MSTPs haven't already published papers, even though they all have research experience. You already have one paper, so that's definitely something unique. Put it on your AMCAS, make sure to have your PI write you a LOR, and be ready to talk about your research at interviews. Good luck. :)
     
  31. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Anyone with an envelope and postage can submit a manuscript to a journal. Until it comes back rejected (which can be as little as 2 weeks or as long as 2 months) you are "under consideration". If just having something "under consideration" was a big enough deal to count for something in the med admissions sweepstakes, the journals would be more inundated than they already are with manuscripts that don't stand a snowball's chance of being published. Do you see what I mean?
     
  32. premeddick

    premeddick Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Of course having clinical exposure as an applicant is a given. Shadowing and volunteering seem to be the norm on this website. Although I would hesitate to say clinical exposure is much more important. You can get in without a publication, true. But if two applicants are roughly equal in clinical experience and one has a pub and one doesn't (as in lizzym's example) then the one with the pub is most likely going to get in. Having something that everyone else has is fine, especially if it is basically required. But having something that only 5-20% of people have, that is really going to set you apart, which makes it more important in my book.

    I would ditch the volunteer gig for the research, especially if there is an outside chance of publishing, but only because you can't do both.
     
  33. armybound

    armybound future urologist. Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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  34. Kiara

    Kiara 5+ Year Member

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    Hey Lizzy,

    I've worked on two research projects for the past year. One of the manuscripts just got submitted to a journal last week, whereas another publication was submitted to a conference and will be submitted to a journal soon. Should I not include this under "publications" then? Only under "research experience"? Also can I update my AMCAS application if I find out anything about acceptance?

    Thx :)
     
  35. So apparently then I'm either a freak of nature or a very seriously anomalous outlier statistically speaking.....sweet. :laugh:
     
  36. premeddick

    premeddick Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Why?
     
  37. LizzyM

    LizzyM the evil queen of numbers Faculty SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Don't include it under publications, just under research. You can always put a note in the explanation section of the "research" that a manuscript is under review (don't specify where as you might not get accepted by the first journal and you may need to resubmit again & again to other journals).

    You can list the presentation or poster as a separate item which will highlight your work a little more (almost as good as a publication).

    This (getting accepted for publication later) is a great thing for up-dating your file either when you interview or when you are sitting on the waitlist (God forbid you end up on the waitlist but it happens).

    I'm not sure about updating the AMCAS.
     
  38. eekonomics

    eekonomics 2+ Year Member

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    How can you be "published" without being an author?
     
  39. eekonomics

    eekonomics 2+ Year Member

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    I put my pending manuscripts in the "Publications" section of the AMCAS, but put "under review" in the date to be published field.
     

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