Pursuing Medical School: Being Realistic

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Crimelabtech

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Currently, i have a undergraduate Cumulative GPA of 2.03 and an adjusted of 2.27. I graduated May of 2002 with a BS in Biology at Kennesaw State University .Since graduation, I worked a year as a Health Inspector and am now working at the Georgia State Crime Lab (GBI) as a lab technician, soon to be a Crime Lab Scientist after Biochem is completed ( It is National accreditation requirement). My original Goal was to become a Forensic Scientist, and in order to to this, I had to complete a single post bacch course in Biochemistry. I will be completing this course in about a week with a B or possibly an A at Clayton College and State University in Georgia. MY QUESTION IS.... If I retook upper level courses 40 to 60 credit hours of sciences and humanities, would i have any feasiable chance of getting into medical school. Cumulatively, i figuired my GPA would only rise to 2.6 or 2.7, factoring in my original former GPA, but would a fresh start and new transcript at a new college be of any value. At the time of my undergraduate, there were several life events, financial factors, and of course work that was a hindrance. How will my former grades affect future endeavors??? THANK YOU ALL :)

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Crimelabtech said:
Currently, i have a undergraduate Cumulative GPA of 2.03 and an adjusted of 2.27. I graduated May of 2002 with a BS in Biology at Kennesaw State University .Since graduation, I worked a year as a Health Inspector and am now working at the Georgia State Crime Lab (GBI) as a lab technician, soon to be a Crime Lab Scientist after Biochem is completed ( It is National accreditation requirement). My original Goal was to become a Forensic Scientist, and in order to to this, I had to complete a single post bacch course in Biochemistry. I will be completing this course in about a week with a B or possibly an A at Clayton College and State University in Georgia. MY QUESTION IS.... If I retook upper level courses 40 to 60 credit hours of sciences and humanities, would i have any feasiable chance of getting into medical school. Cumulatively, i figuired my GPA would only rise to 2.6 or 2.7, factoring in my original former GPA, but would a fresh start and new transcript at a new college be of any value. At the time of my undergraduate, there were several life events, financial factors, and of course work that was a hindrance. How will my former grades affect future endeavors??? THANK YOU ALL :)


I think if this is something you are truly dedicated to pursuing and ready to put in the hardwork you still have a chance. I've read a number of stories of people in similar situations that do bounce back and get into med school. Check out the link on the SDN frontpage to "Older Premeds". It brings you to a site for nontraditional premed students. Under the moderator link there is a bio on David Kelley, the founder of the site who had a 1.25 gpa from his first degree! He went back to school to do a second bachelors, then med school and now he's an anesthesiology resident at Dartmouth. I think his story is pretty cool. If you search around SDN, you'll find other similar stories as well. It will be tough but it is still possible! Good luck and hang in there!
 
dca_55 said:
I think if this is something you are truly dedicated to pursuing and ready to put in the hardwork you still have a chance. I've read a number of stories of people in similar situations that do bounce back and get into med school. Check out the link on the SDN frontpage to "Older Premeds". It brings you to a site for nontraditional premed students. Under the moderator link there is a bio on David Kelley, the founder of the site who had a 1.25 gpa from his first degree! He went back to school to do a second bachelors, then med school and now he's an anesthesiology resident at Dartmouth. I think his story is pretty cool. If you search around SDN, you'll find other similar stories as well. It will be tough but it is still possible! Good luck and hang in there!


THANK YOU SO MUCH, THE ENCOURAGEMENT IS GREATLY APPRECIATE :)
 
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I was in a similar situation as yours, low undergrad GPA (2.7) and graduated with a biological sciences degree. I worked for two years after graduating, applied to med school during this time and did not get in (no interviews). The main thing holding me back was my undergrad GPA. I did a masters program (BU) and have recieved 6 interviews and have two acceptances and 4 waitlists.

There comes a point where you realize what is important and for me the idea of not becoming a doctor pushed me to do the masters program. I think you should show admissions committees' that you have the poteintial to perform well in a med school environment. I highly recommend one the popular masters programs (BU, GT, Drexel, Finch, etc.), where you take 1st year med school courses. Trying to boost your undergrad by a few decimals will not do too much good. Have a fresh start, work your ass off and you will have accounted for your poor performance in undergrad.

That being said, the other major hurdle is the MCAT. Without a 30 on the exam, you're walking a thin line. Depending on how you do it could possibly keep you out of med school regardless of your new grades. However, the med school classes you take will defintely boost your score.

It's not an easy task, but you can do it. Just stay positive and focus. I believe everyone can get into med school, you just need to work hard. Plan on giving up one year of your life for the rest of your life. You will not regret it in the end. Good Luck!!!
 
I would say first to look at how that GPA is distributed. If you did really poorly in the premed classes (Physics I, II, G Chem I, II, Orgo I, II, Bio I, II, and the labs) then you shouldn't jump into a masters program right away. Retake those classes (as needed), and get the best grades possible. This won't necessarily change your GPA, but you need decent grades in these classes to have a chance. Then, after doing that, do an SMP or a MA (an SMP is probably the best option).

I also don't think it's wise to do a formal postbacc. Take the classes as needed at your local state university (but not a community college). Perhaps, simultaneously, you can work in the crime lab to pay for your ongoing classes and to save for a masters. Once you finish retaking courses as necessary, get into an SMP, do well, and, provided decent extracurriculars, volunteering, and research, you would have an opportunity at a US allopathic school.

Many people on here make it seem like you need a 3.7+ and a 33+ MCAT to have a chance, and even then it's a crapshoot. I think that this is both true and false. For the undergrad straight out of college with no wordly experience whatsoever, this may be true. However there is a natural decay to the empasis placed on grades by medschool. The farther out you get, the more current work becomes ever more important and the less important old work becomes. If you survey the people on this board who have been successful with low GPA's, you'll find many of them are older. So don't give up; if you really want it, it can be yours. But it'll take a while.
~Crake
 
Recently, i talked to several school advisors, whom were professors in college, they all seemed supprised that I was fixing to aquire a job as a Forensic Scientist. Currently, i am going begin retaking my undergrad pre-meds, making A's of course, and aquire an academic fresh start at my old university. The Biochem course that i made an A in is at another university and the credit will transfer. How would it look to a Medical School having some credits from one University and other credits for another. I asked my advisor about doing a MS, and recommended another undergrad degree...something that i could guarantee A's, however I think a Chemistry Major would be better. ANY thoughts?
 
If you retake your premed classes and make A's, and you have an A in biochem, another bachelors degree just doesn't make sense. Clearly you're ready to move onto a masters degree. This would be a better use of your time and money. If you're dead set on medschool, do an SMP. If you want to go to med school but would like to be able to fall back on forensic science, do the appropriate MA.
~Crake
 
Crake said:
If you retake your premed classes and make A's, and you have an A in biochem, another bachelors degree just doesn't make sense. Clearly you're ready to move onto a masters degree. This would be a better use of your time and money. If you're dead set on medschool, do an SMP. If you want to go to med school but would like to be able to fall back on forensic science, do the appropriate MA.
~Crake

Crake, while your advice is good if the OP already had an undergrad GPA closer to the 3.0 line (say a 2.7-3.1), I wonder if a masters will really help the OP, currently with an undergrad GPA of 2.03. Sure undergrad GPAs are a bit deemphasized for nontraditionals, but this still seems too low to get overlooked even with straight A's in a masters. (I'm not even sure you can get into a proven SMP program with below a certain undergrad GPA - eg. the Georgetown SMP website indicates that its usual accepted candidates have at least a 3.0.)
Unless I misread, the OP is contemplating retaking a BS to get his GPA up to the 2.6-2.7 range. I would suggest that is not a bad idea, but that perhaps he shouldn't even stop at the 2.6-2.7 range; I would suggest the OP continue taking classes to pump the GPA up even beyond that point. THEN I would suggest that a SMP or other masters could be a good idea. It's going to be a many year process, (so make sure it's what you really want).
 
Crimelabtech said:
Currently, i have a undergraduate Cumulative GPA of 2.03 and an adjusted of 2.27. I graduated May of 2002 with a BS in Biology at Kennesaw State University .Since graduation, I worked a year as a Health Inspector and am now working at the Georgia State Crime Lab (GBI) as a lab technician, soon to be a Crime Lab Scientist after Biochem is completed ( It is National accreditation requirement). My original Goal was to become a Forensic Scientist, and in order to to this, I had to complete a single post bacch course in Biochemistry. I will be completing this course in about a week with a B or possibly an A at Clayton College and State University in Georgia. MY QUESTION IS.... If I retook upper level courses 40 to 60 credit hours of sciences and humanities, would i have any feasiable chance of getting into medical school. Cumulatively, i figuired my GPA would only rise to 2.6 or 2.7, factoring in my original former GPA, but would a fresh start and new transcript at a new college be of any value. At the time of my undergraduate, there were several life events, financial factors, and of course work that was a hindrance. How will my former grades affect future endeavors??? THANK YOU ALL :)


I agree with most everyone else that it will be a long and difficult road. You will probably have to earn another bachelor's degree and earn mostly A's. If you were to receive a 3.8+ on this new bachelor's degree as a science major, I am sure some postbac/master's programs will give you a shot, especially with a high MCAT score, which you will have to get as well. If you don't mind going to the caribbeans or applying for DO schools, it may be a little easier. I know DO schools will completely erase a prior grade is you retake the course. Also, they seem to favor non-traditional applicants more. Sorry if this sounds overwhelming, but I can cheer you up with my experience. End of 2nd year at UCLA...~2.3-4 GPA, 27Q MCAT. Worked my tail off the next 2 years, retook failed classes, lived in a lab, volunteered any free time I had and got my GPA up to AMCAS ~3.00 and scored 33Q MCAT. After I graduated, I worked full time in a lab while taking a full time load of classes at UCLA Extensions to get my science GPA over 3.00 while applying to 38 medical schools without a single interview. Currently in the Gtown SMP with ~3.6. Applied to ~20 schools, 5 interviews, and finally an acceptance! :) At the end of my 2nd year when I went to my advisor to talk about my future, she asked me some things I've been thinking about doing. When I told her I kind of wanted to be a doctor, she looked at me like I was on drugs...come to think of it, I probably was at that time. What I'm trying to get at here is that if you are determined to do something, I think you can do it. Don't let others get you down. I won't tell you it's going to be easy. It will be long and challenging and from this point on, you will have to work harder than the other premeds to make up for your past. I had a hard time getting advice from people who actually wanted me to succeed, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Best of luck!
 
HEY yall, I talked to some former professors about what i wanted to do. They werent over optimistic, but after attaining some advice, I found out 7 hours of F's could be thrown out of my old GPA, because of a family death at the time of those exams (this happened when i was 19, so i just bit the bullet and continued school). If those courses get thrown out, that would boost my GPA up to a 2.19 Cumulative. Every little bit helps I suppose. I also found out that i could joint enroll at my former university in time for summer, even though admissions ended three weeks ago. I sought a professor whom i knew would tell me not to waist my time. He seemed pleased to see me redeem the bad academic performance. If i completed 45-60 credit hours over the next 3 years with an academic fresh start and worked full time as a Forensic Biologist for a State Crime Lab ( and of course a good MCAT score in the future), could I not be a competative candidate at a medical school. I have several co-wrokers who are MDs (medical examiners), so recommendation letters should not be a problem. What is the lowest Cum GPA, you folks heard of someone having to get in Medical School ???
 
Crimelabtech said:
What is the lowest Cum GPA, you folks heard of someone having to get in Medical School ???

I think that's a bad way of looking at it - it's very statistically unlikely that you will get in as one of the "lowest" - you need to rehabilitate your GPA to better than the lowest level or you will likely be throwing your money away on the applications. If you look on MDApplicants.com you will see a few people over the years that have gotten into allopathic schools with a cum GPA around 2.7 - 2.8. But they have applied to enormous numbers of schools, are sometimes URM, and you can't really know what kind of other pull they may have had. I still think the smart move would be to retake a BS (or the course credit hour equivalent - the degree isn't the issue) and get mostly A's, to get your GPA up to as high a cum as you can, and then still get a hard science masters on top of that. Then, with a good MCAT, you should have a more decent shot. Alternatively, there are other paths (DO and caribbean) that may admit people with slightly lower numbers.
 
If you're truly set on going to med school and this is the only thing that you really want, then you will have to make a lot of sacrifices in the next two years. Your undergrad gpa is extremely low and statistically speaking you have less than a 1% chance of getting accepted with that gpa. If you have completed the pre-reqs for med school with good grades, the best thing for you to do is to take 45-60 credits of science courses (bio, chem, neuroscience, physics) and humanities, social sciences, psychology, computer classes, etc. All of these classes will be part of your post-bacc gpa but they will also raise your undergrad gpa if the classes are undergrad. During this time I would also advise you to study for the mcat. If you can maintain a gpa >3.5 for 45 credits and score high on the mcat, then you can apply to a special master's program. With a good mcat score and a good gpa for the past 45 credits you will have a good chance of getting accepted into the master's program. Once you enroll in the master's program your main goal will be to maintain a gpa >3.5, with that gpa and a good mcat you can apply to med schools in the u.s. and you will be a competitive applicant.

If you received bad grades in the pre-reqs courses for med school, then repeat the courses in which you did poorly in. In addition to that, you will need to take about 45 credits to improve your gpa, and I suggest that those classes be a mix of science courses and non science courses. Study for the mcat, maintain a gpa >3.5, and apply to the master's program.

Another option to consider is just improving your undergrad gpa, getting a high score on the mcat, and applying to med school instead of the master's program. Obtaining admission to a med school in the u.s. will probably be very difficult, but there are some good caribbean schools that will notice that you have improved academically, high mcat score, experience in healthcare, and good letters of recommendation. So while you might not have a god chance at a u.s. school, you might be a competitive applicant to a foreign school because they look at the person overall, and not just grades and mcat to determine where you rank.

Personally, I attended one of the better and known medical schools in the caribbean, and I have seen many students fail out because they thought that their academic struggles ended in undergrad. While med school is completely different than undergrad or anything else, it's really about time management, dedication to studying and learning the material, and dedicating 4 years of your life to 90% studying and 10% having fun with friends, hanging out, and being a regular 20+ aged person. The friends I grew up with all had 8-5 jobs, come home and then go out and have fun. This was available to them any night of the week because they had no hw, tests, or anything like that. So before you invest a lot of time and money on this, first determine if you'll be willing to make all these sacrifices to get into med school, then make even more sacrifices during med school, and then residency. After that, determine why you have such a low gpa to begin with, before you attend med school or take any more classes find out what the problem has been and try to fix it. If you take more classes and don't get good grades in them, you'll only be digging a deeper hole for yourself to get out off.
 
For a DO program, would I need to retake 90 hours. Right now, my plan is to retake my Pre-med courses (the one's that i made less than B's), and do a Political Science degree (law school, if Med School doesnt work out). Thank you.
 
Law2Doc said:
I think that's a bad way of looking at it - it's very statistically unlikely that you will get in as one of the "lowest" - you need to rehabilitate your GPA to better than the lowest level or you will likely be throwing your money away on the applications. If you look on MDApplicants.com you will see a few people over the years that have gotten into allopathic schools with a cum GPA around 2.7 - 2.8. But they have applied to enormous numbers of schools, are sometimes URM, and you can't really know what kind of other pull they may have had. I still think the smart move would be to retake a BS (or the course credit hour equivalent - the degree isn't the issue) and get mostly A's, to get your GPA up to as high a cum as you can, and then still get a hard science masters on top of that. Then, with a good MCAT, you should have a more decent shot. Alternatively, there are other paths (DO and caribbean) that may admit people with slightly lower numbers.

Law2Doc - I absolutely agree with you.

OP - You are trully going to be in for the long run here, but if you want it bad enough than it'll all be worth it. Get the second degree and then work on the masters, take your time and enjoy every bit of it. After working in engineering for 7 years I find that I would much rather be in school than work any day.
 
Hey Yall, I talked to a academic counselor at PCOM (Philadelphia School of Medicine), which is a DO school. She recommended that I pursue a solid year of upperlevel science courses (making A's of course) or a solid year of graduate courses, take the MCAT and then apply. She said they do look highly on work history. Any thoughts on this???? Anyone like/dislike the use of the word YALL :)
 
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