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Q2 2020 Bonuses and Corona Clawbacks...

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AdminPatient

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My health system (Midwest region) offered income protections for the 3.5 months most adversely impacted by Covid (basically we looked at pro fees or wrvus from the prior 12 months, determined each employed doctors monthly average and applied those monthly averages to the Covid protected months). So we essentially insulated each physician’s income. It was enormously expensive, but we felt was the right thing to do. The only condition was that providers needed to work their contracted hours via telemedicine modalities.
 

SSdoc33

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I'm riding a 25% reduction in salary, and have been since April.

...for some BS respiratory illness with weak mortality...

yeah. total BS


your governor really screwed your state, and continues to not mandate masks. you should hunker down and prepare for about year of this in Georgia
 
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SommeRiver

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cowboydoc

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Who could have possibly received a Q2 bonus and already had an argument about a "claw back?" Q2 ended a week ago. If there wasn't going to be a bonus for Q2, no org is going to pay it out now. A Q1 bonus, maybe.

I'll lose a "catch up" check in August once they have actually calculated Q1 and 2. I was down $27k at the end of May compared to my draw, but will make it up (and then some) if we don't shut everything down again. My group is keeping everyone's base intact, even if not meeting production.
 

SommeRiver

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guilty as charged, but im right.

looks like its back to phase 1 for the peach state. and it may swing the other way in the northeast and northwest again as well.


i know you dont like anyone to disagree with you, but i think it is time you budged a little bit on the "coronavirus is no big deal" stance.

do you still have zero patients in your big ortho practice with covid?

We have a whole host of measures in place to combat this extremely severe and catastrophic illness which carries a decimal point mortality (as of now).

I know of no pts in our group with it; I certainly have had none (that I know of).

It is a viral illness and will sweep throughout the nation (like a viral illness does), and there will be a decimal point mortality when it is all said and done.

Wear your mask and STFU.

My reduction of 25% salary doesn't hurt me. I make enough. The idea that we've hurt ourselves to this degree is infuriating. There's a new $1T bill being proposed for "relief." Those dollars will no doubt be spent appropriately and without any fraud occurring, just like the small business loans were so great.

My children are super excited about that debt! They can't wait!

Let's look at 0-64 yo in NYC (the most deaths BY FAR in any American city). Total deaths are over 32,000.

The rate of death per 100,000 people is 0.223.

For 65-74 it is 0.66.

75 and older is 01.6.

Had your buddy Cuomo not killed all those people in the nursing homes the total deaths would plummet unbelievably.

Edit - Confusing graph. Per 100k ppl is to mean per 100k ppl in each age group, or out of every 100k ppl there is a scattering of each of these groups? If the latter, my numbers are wrong.
 

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how much cut did your practice, and therefore you, take during covid? I guess that’s the real question. Then we can all compare apples to apples. Since you’re essentially implying an unfair paycut for employed physicians only

Honestly, it's hard to say. Still a moving target. Both my partner and I have taken on significant debt so that our employees can keep getting a paycheck. It will take several months, maybe even years depending upon how things go before I know the full extent of my damages the COVID-related economic shut down has caused me.
 
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lonelobo

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We have a whole host of measures in place to combat this extremely severe and catastrophic illness which carries a decimal point mortality (as of now).

I know of no pts in our group with it; I certainly have had none (that I know of).

It is a viral illness and will sweep throughout the nation (like a viral illness does), and there will be a decimal point mortality when it is all said and done.

Wear your mask and STFU.

My reduction of 25% salary doesn't hurt me. I make enough. The idea that we've hurt ourselves to this degree is infuriating. There's a new $1T bill being proposed for "relief." Those dollars will no doubt be spent appropriately and without any fraud occurring, just like the small business loans were so great.

My children are super excited about that debt! They can't wait!

Let's look at 0-64 yo in NYC (the most deaths BY FAR in any American city). Total deaths are over 32,000.

The rate of death per 100,000 people is 0.223.

For 65-74 it is 0.66.

75 and older is 01.6.

Had your buddy Cuomo not killed all those people in the nursing homes the total deaths would plummet unbelievably.

Edit - Confusing graph. Per 100k ppl is to mean per 100k ppl in each age group, or out of every 100k ppl there is a scattering of each of these groups? If the latter, my numbers are wrong.
You do understand there is more to the disease than just mortality.....it will probably be years until we understand the lasting effects of this illness(neurological, pulmonary, etc).
 
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lonelobo

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Honestly, it's hard to say. Still a moving target. Both my partner and I have taken on significant debt so that our employees can keep getting a paycheck. It will take several months, maybe even years depending upon how things go before I know the full extent of my damages the COVID-related economic shut down has caused me.
Did u not get PPP or EIDL ?
 

SSdoc33

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We have a whole host of measures in place to combat this extremely severe and catastrophic illness which carries a decimal point mortality (as of now).

I know of no pts in our group with it; I certainly have had none (that I know of).

It is a viral illness and will sweep throughout the nation (like a viral illness does), and there will be a decimal point mortality when it is all said and done.

Wear your mask and STFU.

My reduction of 25% salary doesn't hurt me. I make enough. The idea that we've hurt ourselves to this degree is infuriating. There's a new $1T bill being proposed for "relief." Those dollars will no doubt be spent appropriately and without any fraud occurring, just like the small business loans were so great.

My children are super excited about that debt! They can't wait!

Let's look at 0-64 yo in NYC (the most deaths BY FAR in any American city). Total deaths are over 32,000.

The rate of death per 100,000 people is 0.223.

For 65-74 it is 0.66.

75 and older is 01.6.

Had your buddy Cuomo not killed all those people in the nursing homes the total deaths would plummet unbelievably.

Edit - Confusing graph. Per 100k ppl is to mean per 100k ppl in each age group, or out of every 100k ppl there is a scattering of each of these groups? If the latter, my numbers are wrong.
Fauci. What would he know, anyway?

 
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SSdoc33

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We have a whole host of measures in place to combat this extremely severe and catastrophic illness which carries a decimal point mortality (as of now).

I know of no pts in our group with it; I certainly have had none (that I know of).

It is a viral illness and will sweep throughout the nation (like a viral illness does), and there will be a decimal point mortality when it is all said and done.

Wear your mask and STFU.

My reduction of 25% salary doesn't hurt me. I make enough. The idea that we've hurt ourselves to this degree is infuriating. There's a new $1T bill being proposed for "relief." Those dollars will no doubt be spent appropriately and without any fraud occurring, just like the small business loans were so great.

My children are super excited about that debt! They can't wait!

Let's look at 0-64 yo in NYC (the most deaths BY FAR in any American city). Total deaths are over 32,000.

The rate of death per 100,000 people is 0.223.

For 65-74 it is 0.66.

75 and older is 01.6.

Had your buddy Cuomo not killed all those people in the nursing homes the total deaths would plummet unbelievably.

Edit - Confusing graph. Per 100k ppl is to mean per 100k ppl in each age group, or out of every 100k ppl there is a scattering of each of these groups? If the latter, my numbers are wrong.

Also, your kids would have to pay back a lot less if your beloved GOP didnt pass that ludicrous tax bill. You know their projections were based on ecominic growth. We are in a horrible position to claw out of this hole because of that g-damn law. We are looking at a good decade of economic mediocrity. I hope that little tax refund we got was worth it to you.
 

SommeRiver

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Also, your kids would have to pay back a lot less if your beloved GOP didnt pass that ludicrous tax bill. You know their projections were based on ecominic growth. We are in a horrible position to claw out of this hole because of that g-damn law. We are looking at a good decade of economic mediocrity. I hope that little tax refund we got was worth it to you.

First off, don't blanket me like that. I'm not a Trump fan. I didn’t vote for him in 16, and I won't in 20.

My "beloved GOP..." WTF are you talking about?

I'm a big GOP guy bc I utterly despise the Left? Here's the deal man - The Left is no longer liberal. They're out of control.

You for sure agree with me on that.

My saying that does NOT make me a GOP guy or a Trump guy.

I'm a moderate down the middle. Real liberal on some things (not Leftist/Marxist unfortunately), conservative on others.

So don't be simple dude.

COVID-19 is a big deal to a very small segment of our population.

The federal government forcing bankruptcy on so many small businesses while bailing TF out of huge businesses is criminal and disgusting, and it would have gone down that way no matter Trump or Hillary signed off on that BS.
 
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SSdoc33

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First off, don't blanket me like that. I'm not a Trump fan. I didn’t vote for him in 16, and I won't in 20.

My "beloved GOP..." WTF are you talking about?

I'm a big GOP guy bc I utterly despise the Left? Here's the deal man - The Left is no longer liberal. They're out of control.

You for sure agree with me on that.

My saying that does NOT make me a GOP guy or a Trump guy.

I'm a moderate down the middle. Real liberal on some things (not Leftist/Marxist unfortunately), conservative on others.

So don't be simple dude.

COVID-19 is a big deal to a very small segment of our population.

The federal government forcing bankruptcy on so many small businesses while bailing TF out of huge businesses is criminal and disgusting, and it would have gone down that way no matter Trump or Hillary signed off on that BS.

Fine. You arent a card carrying righty. My apologies.

This is a big deal for everyone. No way around that. This is a generational event
On the order or magnitide of WW2. Whether it should be or not is another question.

We are better at treating it now -- steroids, blood thinners, flipping patients and the patients are younger, so the death rate is lower. We still have hospitals maxing out beds in Houston, miami, phoenix, and soon to be a local metropolis near you. That is why economy had to shut down and why it may again.

Our country has demonstrated thay we are not responsible enough to deal with this on a statewide basis. The mandates and rules need to come from the federal level and that is plain not happenenning. Other countries have done it.

Imho, we will be ping ponging like this for another year or so with openings and closings.
 

SommeRiver

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Fine. You arent a card carrying righty. My apologies.

This is a big deal for everyone. No way around that. This is a generational event
On the order or magnitide of WW2. Whether it should be or not is another question.

We are better at treating it now -- steroids, blood thinners, flipping patients and the patients are younger, so the death rate is lower. We still have hospitals maxing out beds in Houston, miami, phoenix, and soon to be a local metropolis near you. That is why economy had to shut down and why it may again.

Our country has demonstrated thay we are not responsible enough to deal with this on a statewide basis. The mandates and rules need to come from the federal level and that is plain not happenenning. Other countries have done it.

Imho, we will be ping ponging like this for another year or so with openings and closings.

I'm sorry, but I was in the Special Operations community in my past life and deployed to some nasty places and saw some nasty people doing nasty things and COVID-19 is...NOT...On par with WWII.

You need to go see some combat so you get some perspective dude.

A 22 yo male in prime physical condition having his life taken from him acutely and traumatically is in a different league than the COVID-19 deaths, just under half of which are nursing home related.

I get the fact you're a good dude and you're a fair guy who genuinely gives AF about people, but your analogy is off by a wide margin.

The pandemic is not what we thought it was initially. I was a flag-toting shut down guy for the first few weeks, but I began to get jaded when the funny business began with the documentation.
 
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SommeRiver

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suck it up
many who are better than you got a 30% reduction in salary
go pick up some extra time on the frontlines to get some extra $$$

Some got a 31% reduction...50%.

Many lost their jobs.

Many lost their livelihood...

Which is my point.

Me losing 25% doesn't hurt.
 
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Ducttape

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We have a whole host of measures in place to combat this extremely severe and catastrophic illness which carries a decimal point mortality (as of now).

I know of no pts in our group with it; I certainly have had none (that I know of).

It is a viral illness and will sweep throughout the nation (like a viral illness does), and there will be a decimal point mortality when it is all said and done.

Wear your mask and STFU.

My reduction of 25% salary doesn't hurt me. I make enough. The idea that we've hurt ourselves to this degree is infuriating. There's a new $1T bill being proposed for "relief." Those dollars will no doubt be spent appropriately and without any fraud occurring, just like the small business loans were so great.

My children are super excited about that debt! They can't wait!

Let's look at 0-64 yo in NYC (the most deaths BY FAR in any American city). Total deaths are over 32,000.

The rate of death per 100,000 people is 0.223.

For 65-74 it is 0.66.

75 and older is 01.6.

Had your buddy Cuomo not killed all those people in the nursing homes the total deaths would plummet unbelievably.

Edit - Confusing graph. Per 100k ppl is to mean per 100k ppl in each age group, or out of every 100k ppl there is a scattering of each of these groups? If the latter, my numbers are wrong.
misleading to use statistics based on whole population size.

its kind of like saying Drunk driving isn't a big deal, only 10,000 americans die of Drunk Driving a year. whats the big deal, that's only 0.00003 of the total US population.



the problem by abstracting this, and making this primarily in to an old person illness, is that most older individuals get exposed through the disease is through carriers that are younger, even while they do live in greater isolation than the average person (and much more than the average teenager...)


it is perplexing how most cultures really focus on providing for their elderly, but some US politicians have pointedly stated that economic hardship outweighs caring for our most vulnerable citizens, and they should be willing to sacrifice for the average American. one fact noted in Agast's post on the Sweden misadventure suggests that not sacrificing economic hardship did, in fact, not work at all, and they are in the same hardship as as other countries that had done appropriate shut downs.



fwiw, as of today, NY state has officially listed 6542 deaths due to or presumed to be due to COVID-19. I added the numbers myself, please feel free to check my math. https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/diseases/covid-19/fatalities_nursing_home_acf.pdf
 
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misleading to use statistics based on whole population size.

its kind of like saying Drunk driving isn't a big deal, only 10,000 americans die of Drunk Driving a year. whats the big deal, that's only 0.00003 of the total US population.



the problem by abstracting this, and making this primarily in to an old person illness, is that most older individuals get exposed through the disease is through carriers that are younger, even while they do live in greater isolation than the average person (and much more than the average teenager...)


it is perplexing how most cultures really focus on providing for their elderly, but some US politicians have pointedly stated that economic hardship outweighs caring for our most vulnerable citizens, and they should be willing to sacrifice for the average American. one fact noted in Agast's post on the Sweden misadventure suggests that not sacrificing economic hardship did, in fact, not work at all, and they are in the same hardship as as other countries that had done appropriate shut downs.



fwiw, as of today, NY state has officially listed 6542 deaths due to or presumed to be due to COVID-19. I added the numbers myself, please feel free to check my math. https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/diseases/covid-19/fatalities_nursing_home_acf.pdf
Here is the info you requested. Fatality rate per population by state.

Can we go through how red states compare to blue states?

Screenshot_20200709-050247_Chrome.jpg
 

SSdoc33

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I'm sorry, but I was in the Special Operations community in my past life and deployed to some nasty places and saw some nasty people doing nasty things and COVID-19 is...NOT...On par with WWII.

You need to go see some combat so you get some perspective dude.

A 22 yo male in prime physical condition having his life taken from him acutely and traumatically is in a different league than the COVID-19 deaths, just under half of which are nursing home related.

I get the fact you're a good dude and you're a fair guy who genuinely gives AF about people, but your analogy is off by a wide margin.

The pandemic is not what we thought it was initially. I was a flag-toting shut down guy for the first few weeks, but I began to get jaded when the funny business began with the documentation.

first of all, thanks for your service. much appreciated.

second of all, im not equating getting covid-19 with storming the beaches at Normandy. but the effect that covid-19 has had on society is huge. economically, educationally, socially. i havent eaten in a restaurant in 4 months. i have had 3 trips cancelled. havent seen relatives i typically would. no pro sports. massive unemployment. no handshakes. everyone, including kids wearing masks.

so yes, this is the biggest deal to hit out society since WWII.
 

SommeRiver

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first of all, thanks for your service. much appreciated.

second of all, im not equating getting covid-19 with storming the beaches at Normandy. but the effect that covid-19 has had on society is huge. economically, educationally, socially. i havent eaten in a restaurant in 4 months. i have had 3 trips cancelled. havent seen relatives i typically would. no pro sports. massive unemployment. no handshakes. everyone, including kids wearing masks.

so yes, this is the biggest deal to hit out society since WWII.

...so I will say we can keep it apropos to WWII and call it a self inflicted gut shot with a Gewehr.

Without question we CHOSE this punishment. It is not forced upon us like Black Plague or gonorrhea from Thailand (no choice of opting out IMO).
 

SommeRiver

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misleading to use statistics based on whole population size.

its kind of like saying Drunk driving isn't a big deal, only 10,000 americans die of Drunk Driving a year. whats the big deal, that's only 0.00003 of the total US population.



the problem by abstracting this, and making this primarily in to an old person illness, is that most older individuals get exposed through the disease is through carriers that are younger, even while they do live in greater isolation than the average person (and much more than the average teenager...)


it is perplexing how most cultures really focus on providing for their elderly, but some US politicians have pointedly stated that economic hardship outweighs caring for our most vulnerable citizens, and they should be willing to sacrifice for the average American. one fact noted in Agast's post on the Sweden misadventure suggests that not sacrificing economic hardship did, in fact, not work at all, and they are in the same hardship as as other countries that had done appropriate shut downs.



fwiw, as of today, NY state has officially listed 6542 deaths due to or presumed to be due to COVID-19. I added the numbers myself, please feel free to check my math. https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/diseases/covid-19/fatalities_nursing_home_acf.pdf

I understand the targeted threat of COVID-19, and I'm 100% behind safety measures for those individuals.

Wear your mask man.
Grocery shop for your parents.

The widespread economic destruction is a FFFAAARRR bigger issue, with long lasting implications to our stability. Like it or not, this country is defined by its economy, and our economy is the single greatest reason other countries don't want to piss around with us. We have the money and resources to wage war indefinitely, and the population to support it.

Maybe China can say the same, but perhaps not.
 

SSdoc33

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...so I will say we can keep it apropos to WWII and call it a self inflicted gut shot with a Gewehr.

Without question we CHOSE this punishment. It is not forced upon us like Black Plague or gonorrhea from Thailand (no choice of opting out IMO).

if you get shot by a gewehr or shoot yourself with one, it hurts just the same.

also, if you start discussing sexual tourism, hyperalgesia is bound to chime in.
 

Ducttape

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I would disagree with some aspects of your viewpoint.

those countries thus far that have been willing to make significant economic compromises early on seem to have earlier recovery of their economies. Sweden is the best example of this.

additionally, I suspect that the US and Brazil will be prime examples of more devastating economic impact of reopening too quickly and without contact tracing and other social controls in place.
 

SommeRiver

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I would disagree with some aspects of your viewpoint.

those countries thus far that have been willing to make significant economic compromises early on seem to have earlier recovery of their economies. Sweden is the best example of this.

additionally, I suspect that the US and Brazil will be prime examples of more devastating economic impact of reopening too quickly and without contact tracing and other social controls in place.

Well, let me say this...I wonder what role general health plays in this...Americans are unhealthy on a cultural level. I am willing to bet countries like Sweden would fair better than us simply based on that, and of course the economy follows health to some degree.

If...say 50% of Americans got COVID-19 and our health profile were like the Swedes...People get over the disease quickly and life moves on...

I can't compare the cultural melting pot of the USA to Sweden in any aspect. They can't be compared, but I will say this - If Trump wanted to get re-elected he would walk out tomorrow and push some form of single payer system as his central platform.

Probably the single most effective treatment for COVID-19 is just being healthy, non-obese, minimal comorbidities, no smoking...etc.

We THINK single payer probably gives greater access to care and potentially we all do better, but no matter WTF access is available, there are tons of ppl that are going to smoke, gripe about life being unfair, eat BS food, refuse to exercise...Maybe some percentage of ppl live better lives in a single payer system...Not all.

Part of me wants single payer for the simple fact we spend $2500 per person per year in insurance administration costs, while Canada spends $500...That alone makes me think about it.
 
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If Trump wanted to get re-elected he would walk out tomorrow and push some form of single payer system as his central platform.
I think most of the haters of Trump don't care what he does. They are fully indoctrinated. If he makes any concessions to them it will only alienate his base. It's unfortunate because his ideology is flexible enough that big compromises could have been made.
 

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I think most of the haters of Trump don't care what he does. They are fully indoctrinated. If he makes any concessions to them it will only alienate his base. It's unfortunate because his ideology is flexible enough that big compromises could have been made.

He needs to quit acting like a bitch on Twitter. That move alone would be significant. He's far too narcissistic to do that unfortunately. The dude is of weak character. That's why he will bully Merkel and grovel in front of Putin.
 
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Ducttape

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Yes, Americans are definitely not as healthy as the Swedes. Yes our mortality rates will be higher just based on that.

I suspect our death totals will continue to climb but not As much the rate because most states have taken positive steps to protect the elderly. But while there is prevalence in the community, they remain at risk.

odd that people get riled up about wearing masks, saying it is their right to not wear masks, yet this in many ways forces the elderly and NH patients to lose almost all of their rights- visitation, contact, travel...
 

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odd that people get riled up about wearing masks, saying it is their right to not wear masks, yet this in many ways forces the elderly and NH patients to lose almost all of their rights- visitation, contact, travel...

People who are antimask (I'm guessing here) are probably of the opinion COVID-19 is not their problem, and there's some truth to that.

I'd also guess many of them are people who simply do not appreciate it when random ppl they don't know condemn them (morally by the way) for not doing what they're told by strangers.

The modern Leftist movement (traditional liberalism is no longer enough - too bad bc they're great people) has taken the undeserved and unearned position of looking down its nose at everyone who disagrees with any of its wildly deviant beliefs.

The infiltration and hijacking of the Left by Marxists is no longer a Right conspiracy. It is true, and not funny...At all. Bernie Sanders nearly became the DNC nominee...That is lunacy in its purist form.

Your avg American wants to be left TF alone, and yet every day they're being told they're racist, bigoted, ignorant, antiscience...With mask wearing being one tool.

Self immolation became the only way to show one is not racist or anti gay. That they "believe" in COVID-19.

I'm not sure it is the best idea to make everyone hurt rather than the vulnerable. I'm not saying wearing a mask "hurts," rather the entire series of events we've made as a nation.

Wearing a mask being one example.

I look forward to the day when wearing a mask is clearly texting...

Texting made communication safe and easy, to the point a phone call is aggressive. Whoa! Do not call me! Text me! Showing your face makes uncomfortable conversations easy, and eventually showing your face period is aggressive.
 
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