Hi, I'm new to the forum and new to ophthalmology. I recently completed my internship in general surgery and decided to switch to ophthalmology. I'll be applying in this year's match and am now doing a pre-residency research fellowship in cornea at Duke. I'm having a difficult time finding any stats on the quality of available programs. Of course, it's quite clear who the top 10-20 programs in the country are, but beyond that what other resources are available to get a feel for other programs? I think I would like to apply to some of the programs in Chicago and Ohio, but really have no idea about them. Can anyone offer advice on this subject?
-
CycleTrack and SDN are teaming up to make medical school admissions more transparent and accessible! Read the announcement to learn how we’re supporting the future of CycleTrack’s free application-tracking tools .
Quality of Programs
Started by Surgess
Get help with your application
Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
Welcome to the forum.
In Chicago, the best program is probably Illinois Eye and Ear Infirmary. I got the feeling that University of Chicago was on the upswing given their new chair and recent faculty additions. I got the impression that the residents at Loyola got to operate a lot. They also have the VA all to themselves.
I interviewed at Case and Cleveland Clinic. Everyone was nice at Case and the Clinic has the reputation...enough said. People have commented not too highly on the Clinic is past posts. I am indifferent.
Good luck! Glad you saw the light.
Ruben
In Chicago, the best program is probably Illinois Eye and Ear Infirmary. I got the feeling that University of Chicago was on the upswing given their new chair and recent faculty additions. I got the impression that the residents at Loyola got to operate a lot. They also have the VA all to themselves.
I interviewed at Case and Cleveland Clinic. Everyone was nice at Case and the Clinic has the reputation...enough said. People have commented not too highly on the Clinic is past posts. I am indifferent.
Good luck! Glad you saw the light.
Ruben
surgess said:
Did you notice the thread about an open spot now in Detroit?
7ontheline said:
I did notice it, but just last night my husband and I were discussing my distribution list and he wholeheartedly vetoed Detroit. He thinks it's a dangerous city with poor schools. If anyone has a different opinion let me know.
Andrew_Doan
Ophthalmology, Aerospace Medicine, Eye Pathology
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
20+ Year Member
surgess said:
If you're looking into an awesome program that is resident friendly and has the best schools for kids, then consider Iowa in Iowa City, IA.
Your quality of life will be good if you don't mind the cold.
Inner city Detroit might not be where you want to live, lucky for you there are several very nice suburbs surrounding Detroit. Kresge is a good program that I believe is only getting better, a sleeper program - if you will. I would consider it seriously if I were in your position.
On a separate note, Redhawk did you imply that you have time to read in clinic?? I hope you are doing well, drop me a PM when you get a chance.
Jeremy
On a separate note, Redhawk did you imply that you have time to read in clinic?? I hope you are doing well, drop me a PM when you get a chance.
Jeremy
It has been several years, but I looked at UIC and Northwestern. Both seemed like decent programs. UIC actually claimed they were the "best" program in chicago and criticized the other chicago programs. I thought this was inappropriate. The facilities at Northwestern were definitely nicer and the resdients at NU were happier. Rumor was that Loyola has a high surgical volume.
This basically reflects my feeling on the programs I went to interview at, I tried to interview at a wide variety of programs.
My favorite programs (non-ranked): Minneapolis, Storm (in charleston), UAB (Eye foundation in birmingham), SLU (in St. Louis)
Favorite ranked program: Wills
Less favorite ranked programs: Baylor, Penn, Emory
Less Favorite non-ranked program: UVA
Program I wish I had gone to interview at: Casey (in Oregon), Utah, Tufts.
--There is no way to interview at all the programs, you will have to pick programs, often based on very little information about the programs. Good luck.
A quick note about Iowa-the facilities, residents, and faculty were all very nice. The city was smaller than I expected, although it is probably a nice place to raise a family. I was concerned about the homogeneity of the population, and I was concerned about resident independence in the clinics.
This basically reflects my feeling on the programs I went to interview at, I tried to interview at a wide variety of programs.
My favorite programs (non-ranked): Minneapolis, Storm (in charleston), UAB (Eye foundation in birmingham), SLU (in St. Louis)
Favorite ranked program: Wills
Less favorite ranked programs: Baylor, Penn, Emory
Less Favorite non-ranked program: UVA
Program I wish I had gone to interview at: Casey (in Oregon), Utah, Tufts.
--There is no way to interview at all the programs, you will have to pick programs, often based on very little information about the programs. Good luck.
A quick note about Iowa-the facilities, residents, and faculty were all very nice. The city was smaller than I expected, although it is probably a nice place to raise a family. I was concerned about the homogeneity of the population, and I was concerned about resident independence in the clinics.
Andrew_Doan
Ophthalmology, Aerospace Medicine, Eye Pathology
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
20+ Year Member
PDT4CNV said:
At Iowa, the residents work with faculty in clinics while at the University and work in their own clinics while at the VA.
The benefit of working with many faculty is that residents learn how to practice ophthalmology from numerous experienced faculty.
Do residents get independence? You bet. 10 weeks during the first year, 10 weeks during the second year, and 20 weeks during the third year, residents run the VA clinic while faculty are there simply to back residents up. Residents are very independent while on call.
In my opinion, as a first and young second year resident, do you truly want independence in the clinic? I don't think so. Independence should be built up as experience increases. I don't believe in the sink-or-swim philosophy; thus, this is why I did my residency at Iowa. 😉
On the other hand, Iowa may not be your cup of tea if you only learn by being independent. The key to searching for the right program is finding your fit. I know many of you are worried about just matching, but it is more important to find the program that melds with how you like to learn. The most important factor, however, to resident happiness is location. If you are only happy in sun and Southern Cal, for example, then do not go any where else. If you're not happy with where you live, then you won't be a productive resident. You'll spend too many hours thinking that life "sucks", and negative thoughts simply will wear residents down.
Thanks for the excellent information, I don't think that I really considered Iowa before. I think that I would like to be in a program that offered a variety of experiences in the first year. I love going to the OR. After spending my last year in GS, it would be hard not to have OR time as a first year. How much OR experience do the first years get at Iowa?
Andrew_Doan
Ophthalmology, Aerospace Medicine, Eye Pathology
Moderator Emeritus
Lifetime Donor
20+ Year Member
surgess said:
In ophthalmology, first years don't get a lot surgical experience, which is pretty much this way at all the programs. Surgical cases are reserved for your seniors (second and third years). At Iowa, you'll go to the OR for a dozen cases or so, but that's pretty much the norm. Iowa residents will finish with 140-180 Class I cataracts.
I understand that you want to spend time in the OR, but I also know that you'll need that first year to learn medical ophthalmology. Everyone starts out slow.
Stats are good for big entities. For example, you can gage how lifestyle of a country by looking at individual income. Medical schools are fairly big entities.
On the other hand, ophthalmology departments are small entities which make lists, rankings, and scores difficult and unreliable.
Having only one faculty member in a subspecialty is bad. She may teach bad techniques, have weird opinions, etc.
Having a chair or program director with an uncontrollable temper is also bad. Residents in those programs act like they live in a police state. Even worse, during interviews, these residents, fearing Dr. Saddam, will insists that their program is the best when it is really one of the worse or, at least, only mediocre. It's funny, because the residents from solid programs will be relaxed and honest and make their program seem worse than Dr. Saddam's program.
On the other hand, ophthalmology departments are small entities which make lists, rankings, and scores difficult and unreliable.
Having only one faculty member in a subspecialty is bad. She may teach bad techniques, have weird opinions, etc.
Having a chair or program director with an uncontrollable temper is also bad. Residents in those programs act like they live in a police state. Even worse, during interviews, these residents, fearing Dr. Saddam, will insists that their program is the best when it is really one of the worse or, at least, only mediocre. It's funny, because the residents from solid programs will be relaxed and honest and make their program seem worse than Dr. Saddam's program.
sam w said:
Hi there,
You seem to be well informed, do you have examples that you would be willing to share? After having completed my application and having read the information posted on lots of websites, I have been able to form some opinions based on things like part-time vs. full-time faculty, numbers in each specialty area, number of educational opportunities scheduled for residents, etc.. If anyone has recent examples that they would be willing to share, it might help me make decisions about where I would want to interview at, if I'm lucky enough to get offers.
One of the difficult things about deciding where to apply, interview and how to rank ophtho programs is the fact that as medical students, you often do not know which characteristics are most important in a residency program. As with many other decisions in life, this knowledge becomes most clear only after you make the decision. We go through life making a series of poorly informed decisions.
That being said, there are things that can help you become informed about different programs and help you decide which ophtho program is the best fit.
1. Impressions and recommendations from trusted sources
2. Programs that have goals and values similar to yours
3. Clearly defining what you want out of a residency program and where you envision yourself in the future
4. Exposure to the program
Some other tips that were passed along to me from trusted sources:
-a little extra money spent applying to a few more programs can buy a lot of relief; it is better to have too many interviews than too few
-pay close attention to the department chair, he/she usually sets the tone for the entire program.
-when you interview, make a list of adjectives that describe the program you are evaluating, then compare those lists to a list of characteristics you are looking for. I have included some examples from my interviews.
Ohio State-midwestern, fairly large city, affordable, great chairman, hard working residents, long commute to away site, nice perks, good football, older facilities, mostly friendly interviewers, medium size program
UVA-great town, small faculty with mostly single coverage, smart residents, strong faculty personalities, cramped quarters, beautiful surroundings, long commute to away site, good football, housing becoming pricey
Iowa-very nice clinics and facilities, strong research focus, cold and windy, small town, deep faculty, affordable
Oklahoma-unassuming, great department chair, small program feel, nice residents, flat and windy, great football (these were my impressions from 2 years ago), very affordable, deep faculty, comfortable interviews, admirable value system
That being said, there are things that can help you become informed about different programs and help you decide which ophtho program is the best fit.
1. Impressions and recommendations from trusted sources
2. Programs that have goals and values similar to yours
3. Clearly defining what you want out of a residency program and where you envision yourself in the future
4. Exposure to the program
Some other tips that were passed along to me from trusted sources:
-a little extra money spent applying to a few more programs can buy a lot of relief; it is better to have too many interviews than too few
-pay close attention to the department chair, he/she usually sets the tone for the entire program.
-when you interview, make a list of adjectives that describe the program you are evaluating, then compare those lists to a list of characteristics you are looking for. I have included some examples from my interviews.
Ohio State-midwestern, fairly large city, affordable, great chairman, hard working residents, long commute to away site, nice perks, good football, older facilities, mostly friendly interviewers, medium size program
UVA-great town, small faculty with mostly single coverage, smart residents, strong faculty personalities, cramped quarters, beautiful surroundings, long commute to away site, good football, housing becoming pricey
Iowa-very nice clinics and facilities, strong research focus, cold and windy, small town, deep faculty, affordable
Oklahoma-unassuming, great department chair, small program feel, nice residents, flat and windy, great football (these were my impressions from 2 years ago), very affordable, deep faculty, comfortable interviews, admirable value system
Traynor said:
On my two away rotations one department chair was pretty high strung, but most of the other faculty members seemed really nice and the next rotation the residents thought the chair was pretty crazy and the rest of the faculty seemed pretty nice as well. In my limited experience the chairs seem kind of intimidating but maybe that is because it is always intimidating to be working with someone with the power to toss you off the rank list. I think it might be difficult to judge a program by the chair, but the rest of your advice seemed very strong.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=138148
This thread discusses less than stellar programs.
This thread discusses less than stellar programs.
PDT4CNV said:
I would agree with the thumbs up for SLU. It had it ranked as my favorite environment/overall feel of the 14 places I interviewed and am really enjoying my first year there. Feel free to PM me with any questions.
I'm also somewhat familiar with the U of Chicago and MCW programs, both of which I'd give strong recommendations to check out, as well. Dr. Mieler is a great guy and seems to have the U of C program on the up and up.
