Quality of Training

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alphaholic06

Doctor, Who? Me?
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As someone who will probably apply for an EM residency next year, how do you determine the quality of training that you will receive at any given program? The reason I ask is that I recently heard of a couple of recent grads of a program I'm interested in being fired for for a lack of competency. Hopefully this doesn't get me a Fatty McFattypants.:D

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As someone who will probably apply for an EM residency next year, how do you determine the quality of training that you will receive at any given program? The reason I ask is that I recently heard of a couple of recent grads of a program I'm interested in being fired for for a lack of competency. Hopefully this doesn't get me a Fatty McFattypants.:D

Just to clarify - you know of more than one person from the same program that have been terminated, after finishing residency (not as residents) for incompetency?

This will not be believed to be true unless you state from which program these people came. If you say that you "cannot say", be ready for people not to respond. EM is a very small world, and, if what you say is indeed true, the word would travel very quickly. As you are a student, it would be interesting that you were the first to hear of it.
 
Just to clarify - you know of more than one person from the same program that have been terminated, after finishing residency (not as residents) for incompetency?

This will not be believed to be true unless you state from which program these people came. If you say that you "cannot say", be ready for people not to respond. EM is a very small world, and, if what you say is indeed true, the word would travel very quickly. As you are a student, it would be interesting that you were the first to hear of it.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to hear it. I never said I was. I just want to know how does an applicant evaluate the quality of training he or she would receive at the programs they apply to?
 
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I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to hear it. I never said I was. I just want to know how does an applicant evaluate the quality of training he or she would receive at the programs they apply to?

Well, if two graduates of one program got fired for being incompetent, I'd be pretty sure that is a sign that the program sucks!
 
Well, if two graduates of one program got fired for being incompetent, I'd be pretty sure that is a sign that the program sucks!

Im willing to bet that people have been canned for poor decisions even though they came from good programs.
 
You get out of a program exactly what you put into it. Good programs produce great attendings because they accept great medical students. You can be a mediocre med student that gets accepted into a great program, and you will be a mediocre resident and attending in the end. On the contrary, you can get into a not-so competitive residency, work hard, study hard, and come out a star.

Grow where you are planted.
 
I'm pretty sure I'm not the first to hear it. I never said I was. I just want to know how does an applicant evaluate the quality of training he or she would receive at the programs they apply to?

I found the best way to evaluate a program was based on observing the senior residents. They are the example of the end product that the residency produces. If you are rotating through an ED and the seniors are strong and seem polished then in all likelihood you will be too; if the opposite is true then pay attention. Jarabacoa brings up a good point, though...you will get out of residency what you put in, just like medical school, college, and most any experience.

Personally, I'd pay attention if a program graduates folks that rapidly lose their job for being "incompetent."
 
Very well said. I think the majority of how good you become, both in residency and afterwards, comes down to whether or not you are willing to put in the work.
 
Agreed with the above.

I also doubt the firing thing.

My 2 cents is that 95% of programs are about the same with different strengths. Some places are EMS heavy, some US heavy, some trauma heavy etc.

This is the difference. I did way more trauma than most people but my exposure to EMS was probably less than most. I dont know if this is really true but this is how I feel.
 
I also love the statement, "grow where you are planted," and think I will have to use that myself...very east asian!

The 90% of core emergency medicine is taught everywhere and most graduates of most programs will be 90% the same.


In any case, some of the differences that I see are as follows...

Evidence based practice
Every residency believes that they teach and learn evidence based care, but teh extent to which this is lived is quite variable. Residents graduate with different understandings of what is the workup for a given chief complaint or patient and some are evidence based approaches (of which there can be small variability) and there are approaches that are different because of logistical issues, or style issues, or for other factors.

Longitudinal Care experience
Residency education may come in the form of sheer patient volume or duration of patient encounter. By this I mean, that some environments provide extended time with each patient due to the logistics of that practice environment and although this decreases the total number of new patients that are seen by a given resident on a shift, it increases that resident's awareness of the disease over a course of time. For example, my residency has a very very expedient transit time and so I saw 27 new "critical" patients the other day on my shift. I spent roughly 1 hour with them before they were moved to their disposition. In another facility I trained at, I had seen roughly 7 new patients a shift, but worked with them for sometimes 8-10 hours (sometimes even took care of them on the next shift). This gave me an appreciation of needing to redose antibiotics, make many ventilator changes, and make treatment modifications. So, this is a key difference in the types of education that is offered in different institutions.

Ultrasound, EMS, Trauma, Peds, Wilderness, Hyperbarics
As was alluded to in a previous post, the specialty services provided by the EM physician may vary from program to program. The variance can be quite significant at times, and deserves detailed assessment. Granted, somethings, like Trauma is quite simple from the EM physician perspective, but Ultrasound (I am biased :), is exceptionally important!

Simulation
More and more, residencies are looking to incorporate simulation into the curriculum, but the manner in which it is done and the degree to which the residents feel it is a safe learning environment varies tremendously. The simulators themselves can vary tremendously from single models in a multipurpose room to entire buildings of simulation with every bell and whistle accounted for.

Access to Experts
Some institutions have experts consult such as Orthopedic Hand surgeons and others do not. For those motivated residents (again getting to grow where you are planted), having the specialist offers the chance to learn the most cutting edge, or sophisticated management of crucial injuries; whereas for the residents who choose to, it can be a crutch and prevent them from learning key elements of EM.

Another element of this, is that when considering our specialty there are clearly standout teachers such as Amal Mattu, Deepi Goyal, William Mallon, Slovis, etc. Certain institutions have clinicians like these or have connections with this level of educator and others don't; its not necessary, but sure makes learning the specialty of EM easier to have engaging, knowledgeable leaders such as these around you.

Surely, there are more differences, but I point at these as they are things that are important to me. Although all EM residents are well trained, there are clearly differences in the training from one institution to another. A motivated resident can compensate for many of these things and an underachieving one can still find a way to be less than impressive despite every advantage...so grow where planted (but look to be planted where you think you will grow best).
 
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