Question about applying to specialties...

[FROGGBUSTER]

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I have a few questions about successfully applying to specialties if you guys don't mind.

1. I interviewed recently at UCLA and a D4 student told me that getting Passes is sufficient for applying to specialties and Honors doesn't really matter. Is this true? If so, what is the point of having that grading system in place then?

2. With boards now being Pass/Fail, what are the biggest factors that Adcoms look for in an applicant? I have heard LORs are huge and being well-rounded with lots of community service can help. How would significant contributions in research affect applicants? Are there any other factors you guys can think of?

3. Can someone explain what the rationale was behind making boards Pass/Fail? Seems a little counter-intuitive because now there's one less way Adcoms can distinguish between otherwise similar students...?


Thanks!

 

[lemoncurry]

#3 is basically the reason behind the change. Residency programs were too dependant on NBDE scores to measure applicants and it is not necessarily a fair assessment of all applicants to a particular specialty. What they seem to want is for these graduate programs to have their own test for applicants.

 

[flapaTron]

1. I interviewed recently at UCLA and a D4 student told me that getting Passes is sufficient for applying to specialties and Honors doesn't really matter. Is this true? If so, what is the point of having that grading system in place then?

that's not necessarily true. For example, I too attend a P/F/H school, and one of the OMS attendings has hounded me to make sure i'm honoring all my classes. additionally, our dean recommends that if we want to apply to competitive specialties (ortho/peds/oms), we should be honoring.

2. With boards now being Pass/Fail, what are the biggest factors that Adcoms look for in an applicant? I have heard LORs are huge and being well-rounded with lots of community service can help. How would significant contributions in research affect applicants? Are there any other factors you guys can think of?

yes, ADEA introduced a "personal potential index" for this purpose
http://www.adea.org/dental_education_pathways/pass/Applicants/Documents/PPI Fact Sheet_FINAL.pdf

kinda dumb because of how subjective it is...but it is what it is.

3. Can someone explain what the rationale was behind making boards Pass/Fail? Seems a little counter-intuitive because now there's one less way Adcoms can distinguish between otherwise similar students...?

to add to what lemoncurry already stated, the Joint Commission on Dental Education changed to P/F because the NBDE part 1 was not suited to differentiate between applicants beyond a certain threshold (~85). Yes, it's a headache for students and specialties alike to devise a new standardized test, but at least it will be statistically fair i suppose.
www.asdanet.org/.../Events/NBDE Presentation-Cunningham.ppt

 

[FROGGBUSTER]

thanks guys, very helpful info in here.

others feel free to contribute!

 

[KillaCam]

Yes flapaTron is right but it is also important to note (as flapaTron already knows this too) that honors is also not going to bear too much weight because you cannot compare honors students from a mediocre school vs someone getting honors from a great school like Harvard, UCLA, and Columbia. In the case of OMFS, we now have NBME to take and if you score well in this test, even with no honors, you will most likely get in. Now, if you had all honors and did poorly on the NBME, it would be soooo much harder to get in. I believe it would be the same for Ortho and scoring well on the GRE.

SO what I am trying to say is that with specialties that require other exams like the NBME or GRE, it is more important to do well on the test rather than concentrating on getting honors for all your classes. Just don't get any NPs 😉

that's not necessarily true. For example, I too attend a P/F/H school, and one of the OMS attendings has hounded me to make sure i'm honoring all my classes. additionally, our dean recommends that if we want to apply to competitive specialties (ortho/peds/oms), we should be honoring.



yes, ADEA introduced a "personal potential index" for this purpose
http://www.adea.org/dental_education_pathways/pass/Applicants/Documents/PPI Fact Sheet_FINAL.pdf

kinda dumb because of how subjective it is...but it is what it is.




to add to what lemoncurry already stated, the Joint Commission on Dental Education changed to P/F because the NBDE part 1 was not suited to differentiate between applicants beyond a certain threshold (~85). Yes, it's a headache for students and specialties alike to devise a new standardized test, but at least it will be statistically fair i suppose.
www.asdanet.org/.../Events/NBDE%20Presentation-Cunningham.ppt

 

[Charmm]

What the D4 told you really does not apply to you since they pretty much relied on NBDE I scores.

For schools with H/P/F grading, I think the trend of the transcript will say a lot about the applicant. If its filled with P and occasional H, that doesnt look good. If its mostly H and a P in the first quarter, it pretty much says that you cared a lot.

This brings up the whole point of changing NBDE to P/F. So many applicants didnt really care about what they were doing and with just NBDE I> 95 got into residency programs, with no dedication and true respect for that field.

From now on, getting into competitive residency programs WILL DEPEND ON YOUR ENTIRE PROFILE. Grades, test scores, letters, undergrad record, experience, community service, ECs, and a ton of other stuff. I honestly like it this way.

 

[flapaTron]

From now on, getting into competitive residency programs WILL DEPEND ON YOUR ENTIRE PROFILE. Grades, test scores, undergrad record, experience, community service, ECs, and a ton of other stuff. I honestly like it this way.

exactly, these are just many pieces of a larger puzzle. while perhaps not essential, earning H's over P's never hurts. same with acquiring research experience, stellar board scores, tons o' community service, etc. ultimately just do your best in all aspects of dental school.

 

[fightfightfight]

I have a few questions about successfully applying to specialties if you guys don't mind.

1. I interviewed recently at UCLA and a D4 student told me that getting Passes is sufficient for applying to specialties and Honors doesn't really matter. Is this true? If so, what is the point of having that grading system in place then?

2. With boards now being Pass/Fail, what are the biggest factors that Adcoms look for in an applicant? I have heard LORs are huge and being well-rounded with lots of community service can help. How would significant contributions in research affect applicants? Are there any other factors you guys can think of?

3. Can someone explain what the rationale was behind making boards Pass/Fail? Seems a little counter-intuitive because now there's one less way Adcoms can distinguish between otherwise similar students...?


Thanks!

The D4 student probably failed to remember that boards are going to p/f which means the honors will definitely make a difference in the eyes of adcoms. I would agree that it didn't matter as much when the boards were taken for a score. Also getting those honors would equate to being in a higher percentile of your class and when you apply to specialty there is what is called the "institution evaluation letter" where the dean(of student affairs) will mention your rank in the class if it is worth mentioning. You will now have to do everything you can think of to set yourself apart from the other specialty applicants.