question about DO

[Jack Daniel]

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Riker here.

Is there any proof of this? 😕

You don't think elite MD schools are in a league of their own?

Notice I began with "I think", but I usually leave it to my assistants to do the grunt work. Let me know when you're finished.

 

[Vix206]

You don't think elite MD schools are in a league of their own?

Notice I began with "I think", but I usually leave it to my assistants to do the grunt work. Let me know when you're finished.

not to digress, but i do agree with that, especially when you check MD/DO pass rates on the USMLE. there's no harvard or penn osteopathic medical school. so remember, those schools are also averaged in when you see a 90 something compared to a 70 something. therefore, it can also be a possibility why DO averages are lower.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

So far I have found the following reasons why DO stats are lower
because of these reasons people will choose to go MD first

1) Significantly Harder to get more competative residencies
2) Name recognition is not as great
3) Harder to obtain jobs in more prestigious institutions?
4) Have to do an extra year of Internship before residency to practice in 5states
5) Have to learn OMT---if you dont want to
6) Less research opportunities
7) Have to take USMLE and COMLEX if you want to go to Allo residency


If I am wrong please clarify?

1 - maybe some, but for those fields that are SUPER competitive, there are generally AOA accredited residencies as well. Keep in mind, the SUPER competitive fields are also very difficult for the vast majority of MD applicants as well.

2 - agree with this one. If the DOs that are out there would do even a small part to educate their patients and the AOA would do ANYTHING to advertise our existence as physicians, rather than their current depiction as chiropractor+Naturopath+holistic medicine practitioner, we'd be on the right track to getting better name and professional recognition. Of course, probably in the minds of the majority of people, physician will always = MD... sad but true.

3 - I don't know if this is true or not. I would assume there are DOs in the majority of the "prestigious" institutions, somewhere.

4 - Yeah, this sucks. One can also apply to have the internship waived if one is willing to jump through the appropriate hoops. Eventually, this may go away, though.

5 - If you don't want to learn OMT (or are at least ambivalent to it) you should have never accepted the seat at the school. I think OMT is great. I've made more friends with the nurses than any other doc I know because I do OMT for them. I have quite a following here 🙂

6 - Depends on the school. There is always opportunity for research anywhere you go. At a DO school, if you're really interested in participating in research, you may just have to do a bit more of the footwork yourself instead of "jumping in" on a project already underway.

7 - This is absolutely NOT TRUE. While I generally recommend taking the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX (at least step II) if someone is applying to moderate to highly competitive fields (which differs yearly, it seems), it is not necessary to sit for the USMLE for many residency fields. If you're concerned, call the programs in which you are interested and ask them if they accept the COMLEX. I feel it is easier to get a spot in a residency when the PD and others on the acceptance board can compare apples to apples (USMLE scores to USMLE scores) rather than trying to figure out what a 635 on the COMLEX means. They don't want to have to do the math to determine percentiles. They know what the mean is for the USMLE and it's just easier with all MLE scores.

Of your listed reasons, I think 2 and 5 are more likely to be valid. That and the point that I made - for most people, physician = MD, and they want the "prestige" that goes along with telling people they are a "MD."

my 2 cents. Cash value, $ 0.000000000000000000000000000000000001. Not transferable.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

not to digress, but i do agree with that, especially when you check MD/DO pass rates on the USMLE. there's no harvard or penn osteopathic medical school. so remember, those schools are also averaged in when you see a 90 something compared to a 70 something. therefore, it can also be a possibility why DO averages are lower.

I don't know if I can get behind this statement.

Sure, the brainiacs at the Ivy's might bring the average MCAT/GPAs up for the MD schools (if you look at the averages for the lower tier schools, they are very comparable or even lower than most DO schools), I don't think this idea can be transferred over to the USMLE.

All MD students have to take the USMLE (even the lowest ranked student at the lowest ranked MD school), whereas only those DOs who WANT TO will take it. These are generally not the students at the lower end of the class. I would venture to guess that those DO students taking the USMLE are usually in the top 25% of the class. If only 70-75% of those students pass the USMLE on their first attempt, that's pretty sad, especially when they are self-selected and it can be assumed they are studying "extra" for the exam because they know what is riding on it.

I don't buy the "but our schools don't teach to the USMLE" excuse either. The same knowledge is needed for both exams, so the scores should be comparable in both.

I've long thought the USMLE should be the only licensing exam with a short extra exam testing OPP and any other integrative subjects the AOA might feel is missing from the USMLE. It's sad to think that 25-30% of my fellow graduates would not have been eligible for licensure after their medical training if the USMLE were the only licensing exam... We have to rectify this, and soon, especially with the 14 new DO schools opening. This is a slightly exaggerated number, I'll admit, but I think you can get the point.

 

[HarveyCushing]

We have to rectify this, and soon, especially with the 14 new DO schools opening. This is a slightly exaggerated number, I'll admit, but I think you can get the point.

You might not be completely off basis if you take the current trend and extend it out 8-10 yrs.

 

[J1515]

It's the truth

According to whom? The pre-med student who could only pull a 3.0 from a community college?

Perhaps you should allow advice to be given by people who are actually accepted to or in a medical school.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Perhaps you should allow advice to be given by people who are actually accepted to or in a medical school.

Now that wouldn't be fair if we didn't let pre-meds talk about what they "know". 🙄

 

[DeLaughterDO]

According to whom? The pre-med student who could only pull a 3.0 from a community college?

Perhaps you should allow advice to be given by people who are actually accepted to or in a medical school.

or finished??? c/o 2006 boyyyyyyyzzzz!! (and girls)

 

[Static Line]

I don't buy the "but our schools don't teach to the USMLE" excuse either. The same knowledge is needed for both exams, so the scores should be comparable in both.

I've long thought the USMLE should be the only licensing exam with a short extra exam testing OPP and any other integrative subjects the AOA might feel is missing from the USMLE. It's sad to think that 25-30% of my fellow graduates would not have been eligible for licensure after their medical training if the USMLE were the only licensing exam... We have to rectify this, and soon, especially with the 14 new DO schools opening. This is a slightly exaggerated number, I'll admit, but I think you can get the point.

I agree that the USMLE should be the only licensing exam.

However, I don't agree that all the schools prepare students for it. Though I haven't been a student (Thank God I only have to do this once) of "ALL" the osteopathic schools there seems to be a similar "mantra" among many from the different schools that don't think they are being prepared for it. Since we don't have class rank at my school I don't know where I stand but I get pretty decent grades, and I as well as a few of my friends who I know are "straight A" students don't feel like we are being prepared for the USMLE. I feel like I am being adequately prepared for the COMLEX as I am taking a board prep course for the COMLEX and none of the curriculum in it is a surprise to me. I can't say that for the USMLE prep, and I am busting my a$$ to prepare for it.

I can see where you would believe that because TCOM has their act together. We have an instructor here who used to be at TCOM many moons ago. She is squared away, and she is a big influence on the future of the curriculum here but it still has a way to go to get us ready for the USMLE.

Put it this way. Our first class just graduated yesterday. When they enrolled here they were required to take the USMLE, so was my class. They took it. Did real bad, and our administration made the USMLE optional for the rest of the classes. I am taking USMLE but I am having to study and learn a lot on my own, not a problem but I can see where people at other schools may have the same problem.

If we went to one exam then all the schools would have to gear their curriculum towards that, and osteopathic schools would no longer be able to use that excuse. But there has to be a reason for such a large disparity beteen how well our first class did on the COMLEX versus the USMLE and curriculum may play a part of it.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

Now that wouldn't be fair if we didn't let pre-meds talk about what they "know". 🙄

well, we all know pre-meds know all about medicine, applications to medical school, residency, application to residency, the match, and PROBABLY fellowship and actually working as an attending.

They probably also have the inside track on what residency program directors look for in applicants and know about all the stresses in their lives.

meh...

 

[DeLaughterDO]

I agree that the USMLE should be the only licensing exam.

However, I don't agree that all the schools prepare students for it. Though I haven't been a student (Thank God I only have to do this once) of "ALL" the osteopathic schools there seems to be a similar "mantra" among many from the different schools that don't think they are being prepared for it. Since we don't have class rank at my school I don't know where I stand but I get pretty decent grades, and I as well as a few of my friends who I know are "straight A" students don't feel like we are being prepared for the USMLE. I feel like I am being adequately prepared for the COMLEX as I am taking a board prep course for the COMLEX and none of the curriculum in it is a surprise to me. I can't say that for the USMLE prep, and I am busting my a$$ to prepare for it.

I can see where you would believe that because TCOM has their act together. We have an instructor here who used to be at TCOM many moons ago. She is squared away, and she is a big influence on the future of the curriculum here but it still has a way to go to get us ready for the USMLE.

Put it this way. Our first class just graduated yesterday. When they enrolled here they were required to take the USMLE, so was my class. They took it. Did real bad, and our administration made the USMLE optional for the rest of the classes. I am taking USMLE but I am having to study and learn a lot on my own, not a problem but I can see where people at other schools may have the same problem.

If we went to one exam then all the schools would have to gear their curriculum towards that, and osteopathic schools would no longer be able to use that excuse. But there has to be a reason for such a large disparity beteen how well our first class did on the COMLEX versus the USMLE and curriculum may play a part of it.

Both the USMLE and the COMLEX are designed to test basic competence to practice medicine. The basic competencies are similar, if not the same - biochemistry, anatomy, physiology, immunology, pathology, pharmacology, genetics, etc, etc, are the same whether learned at TCOM, NSUCOM, whateverCOM, or at any MD school. Hell, we all use the same books (for the most part), so we should score similarly.

My argument is that the curriculum is the same, so there should not need to be any tailoring toward the USMLE and away from the COMLEX.

Bottom line: just like the rest of medical school (and life, for that matter), how well prepared you are for whatever licensing exam you take is largely dependent on how well you prepare for it, starting from day 1. If you are the type who only wants to learn what is on the test and nothing else (like several of the students in my class - I'm sure you had those similar), you are cheating yourself. However, if, on the other hand, you read the material and try to learn it for your future patients, you'll be prepared for whatever the boards throw at you - COMLEX or USMLE.

jd

 

[apnea]

well, we all know pre-meds know all about medicine, applications to medical school, residency, application to residency, the match, and PROBABLY fellowship and actually working as an attending.

They probably also have the inside track on what residency program directors look for in applicants and know about all the stresses in their lives.

meh...

haha, wow, we're supposed to know all that??
i'm screwed 😉

 

[Static Line]

Both the USMLE and the COMLEX are designed to test basic competence to practice medicine. The basic competencies are similar, if not the same - biochemistry, anatomy, physiology, immunology, pathology, pharmacology, genetics, etc, etc, are the same whether learned at TCOM, NSUCOM, whateverCOM, or at any MD school. Hell, we all use the same books (for the most part), so we should score similarly.

My argument is that the curriculum is the same, so there should not need to be any tailoring toward the USMLE and away from the COMLEX.

Bottom line: just like the rest of medical school (and life, for that matter), how well prepared you are for whatever licensing exam you take is largely dependent on how well you prepare for it, starting from day 1. If you are the type who only wants to learn what is on the test and nothing else (like several of the students in my class - I'm sure you had those similar), you are cheating yourself. However, if, on the other hand, you read the material and try to learn it for your future patients, you'll be prepared for whatever the boards throw at you - COMLEX or USMLE.

jd

I don't disagree with you one bit on the way it should be. You're singing to the choir here. I have busted my butt from day 1 and hopefully I will be prepared for that dreaded day.

One thing I am not is a number cruncher when it comes to statistics. Did you read that article in the current issue of the JAOA about MCAT and COMLEX. (I only read it because they send it to me free, I won't pay for it.) One of the interesting observations about that study is the MCAT was not significant in determining ones performance on the COMLEX. The significant indicator for performance was undergraduate GPA. Conversely, the MCAT is significant for allopaths and the USMLE and undergraduate GPA is not significant. But what about the 2 important years in between the step 1 exam and undergrad, your first 2 years of med school.

There has to be something in the style of curriculum at the two different institutions that makes a difference. I don't know what it is. I've had biochem and all the same physiology and pharm classes. But something is amiss. I say that because one of my close friends knocked the pants off the MCAT, and is still having to bust a$$ in USMLE prep. I did ok on MCAT and am still in the same boat.

 

[HarveyCushing]

One of the interesting observations about that study is the MCAT was not significant in determining ones performance on the COMLEX. The significant indicator for performance was undergraduate GPA. Conversely, the MCAT is significant for allopaths and the USMLE and undergraduate GPA is not significant.

There has to be something in the style of curriculum at the two different institutions that makes a difference. I don't know what it is. I've had biochem and all the same physiology and pharm classes. But something is amiss. I say that because one of my close friends knocked the pants off the MCAT, and is still having to bust a$$ in USMLE prep. I did ok on MCAT and am still in the same boat.

That is really interesting about the GPA vs. COMLEX and MCAT vs. USMLE. Does one test (USMLE/COMLEX) require more analytical thinking while taking the test, and the other just knowing bare facts? Or are both of them fairly similar in the way they ask questions? I have heard from some that the USMLE is a better exam in that it is much more straightforward but harder in the sense that you need to know your material very well. Whereas the COMLEX one needs to think more due to the poorly phrased questions and that it is more of a regurgitation exam?

 

[Static Line]

That is really interesting about the GPA vs. COMLEX and MCAT vs. USMLE. Does one test (USMLE/COMLEX) require more analytical thinking while taking the test, and the other just knowing bare facts? Or are both of them fairly similar in the way they ask questions? I have heard from some that the USMLE is a better exam in that it is much more straightforward, whereas the COMLEX one needs to think more due to the poorly phrased questions.

I haven't taken either so I am not an authority on them. From what I understand the theme about the COMLEX is some, not many poorly written questions. However, some interpret this to be poorly written--For instance, You get 4 answer choices 2 maybe even 3 choices may be correct but which one is the best choice. I don't consider something like that a poor question. Sometimes they write questions that on first glance the question appears to be real vague but only has one obvious answer choice and the rest are all clearly wrong. Questions like that are written to frustrate the test taker but if you just relax then you'll be ok. I consider those to be a test of your knowledge on the material but truely I don't know yet. The problem I have with that is: does it really test your critical thinking skills? I haven't taken it so I don't know.

From all my practice questions for the USMLE the questions are more straightforward in that there is one correct answer. It may be 1, 2 or 3 steps away and you must think through all that. So if you know the correct answer then there is no ambiguity, you know it and you can answer it. I think this style really tests your critical thinking and problem solving abilities.

 

[Superman19]

According to whom? The pre-med student who could only pull a 3.0 from a community college?

Perhaps you should allow advice to be given by people who are actually accepted to or in a medical school.

so I messed up while i was in a community college, while taking no science classes, big deal. My first semester at a university i pulled off a 3.7 and i had gen chem, microbiology, physics and pre-calc. I have nothing against DO's, i was just messin around, but i guess everyone here is a little too serious, come on people, lighten up.

Harvey you know you love the bananas

 

[J1515]

so I messed up while i was in a community college, while taking no science classes, big deal. My first semester at a university i pulled off a 3.7 and i had gen chem, microbiology, physics and pre-calc. I have nothing against DO's, i was just messin around, but i guess everyone here is a little too serious, come on people, lighten up.

Harvey you know you love the bananas

The people around here are only serious when a pre-med asks for advice and a fellow pre-med who is equally as unknowledgable gives him wrong information, passing it off as fact. There is actually a thread in the pre-allo forum where a pre-med inquired why a medical school in puerto rico had such low MCAT and GPA entrance averages and immediately another pre-med chimed in with "it's a carribean school, you'll have an impossible time getting a residency coming from there, etc..." and passing this information off as fact, meanwhile being 100% wrong.

Not directed towards you specifically superman, but in general when curious pre-meds ask a question, they want to know a real answer....not an opinion of another pre-med who is trying to pretend they know what they're talking about. I suppose it's just the nature of these kids to think they have the answer to everything.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

I don't disagree with you one bit on the way it should be. You're singing to the choir here. I have busted my butt from day 1 and hopefully I will be prepared for that dreaded day.

One thing I am not is a number cruncher when it comes to statistics. Did you read that article in the current issue of the JAOA about MCAT and COMLEX. (I only read it because they send it to me free, I won't pay for it.) One of the interesting observations about that study is the MCAT was not significant in determining ones performance on the COMLEX. The significant indicator for performance was undergraduate GPA. Conversely, the MCAT is significant for allopaths and the USMLE and undergraduate GPA is not significant. But what about the 2 important years in between the step 1 exam and undergrad, your first 2 years of med school.

There has to be something in the style of curriculum at the two different institutions that makes a difference. I don't know what it is. I've had biochem and all the same physiology and pharm classes. But something is amiss. I say that because one of my close friends knocked the pants off the MCAT, and is still having to bust a$$ in USMLE prep. I did ok on MCAT and am still in the same boat.

That is really interesting about the GPA vs. COMLEX and MCAT vs. USMLE. Does one test (USMLE/COMLEX) require more analytical thinking while taking the test, and the other just knowing bare facts? Or are both of them fairly similar in the way they ask questions? I have heard from some that the USMLE is a better exam in that it is much more straightforward but harder in the sense that you need to know your material very well. Whereas the COMLEX one needs to think more due to the poorly phrased questions and that it is more of a regurgitation exam?

ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding... we have a winner!

The COMLEX is a very straightforward exam - most questions on steps I and II (haven't taken III yet) are first or, at most, second order. The only thing confusing about the COMLEX questions is actually trying to divine what the question writer is actually trying to test with the particular question. Many times, the questions are so vague as to be almost impossible to interpret. If you search in the COMLEX/USMLE forums, you'll find such horrible examples as, "You are seeing a patient in your office who complains of a headache and an itchy R great toe. What is the diagnosis?" That is all you're given (a completely made up example, by the way, for illustration purposes only). 2 sentences and about 7 letter MCQ choices. In general, by the time you are done with the exam, you're completely worn out from using your psychic abilities to divine from the heavens what exactly the hell you're supposed to be doing on the exam.

The USMLE, on the other hand, is very well written. The question stems are LONG and there is a lot of extraneous information included in them, but once you get to the actual question, you know immediately what the question writer is asking. You may or may not know the answer, but at least you know whether or not you know the answer. The USMLE is HARD in that the vast majority of the questions are second to probably about fifth order questions. Yeah, freaking hard. The USMLE hits the basic sciences (biochem, pharmacology, microbiology, statistics, pathology) much harder and in more detail than the COMLEX. I think this is where most DO students get beat up. I don't know about your particular school, but I felt TCOM glossed over biochem and microbiology, and our stats course was nonexistent. I had to study these areas alot more than the pharm, a&p, path, etc. The COMLEX is much more into anatomy, simple pharmacology, ethics and does not touch much on statistics or biochemistry.

Given the differences in the exams, I can completely see why the MCAT is not significant for the COMLEX.. there is much more analytical thinking required for the MCAT and USMLE (which MCAT was much more significant for) and much more memorization and lucky guessing required for the COMLEX (which corresponds to undergraduate GPA). Makes sense to me.

BTW, MCAT and USMLE/COMLEX have absolutely no correlation with how good a physician you will become, they are only correlated somewhat with what KIND of physician you can become.

best of luck, and this has been an interesting dialogue. I've enjoyed it and am glad we have been able to keep it civil.

jd

 

[scpod]

I would venture to guess that those DO students taking the USMLE are usually in the top 25% of the class. If only 70-75% of those students pass the USMLE on their first attempt, that's pretty sad...

That's an assumption that a lot of people make, but I don't believe it's true. The people taking it are people who want to go to ACGME residencies, not necessarily the top people in the class. Remember, that a bunch of those people are the same ones who never wanted to go to DO schools in the first place and couldn't get into MD schools academically anyway. Taken in that light, it's no surprise that they don't score well.

Obviously, this is my ASUMPTION and it's different from yours. Yet, there is no evidence that I can find showing that DO students taking the tests are at the top of their classes. Based on the ones know who took it (yes, I know that's pretty poor evidence) they were a mix of good and bad students. Based on statisticcs from my school alone, though, most people did better on USMLE than on COMLEX. Yet, there is evidence that PBL students with <30 MCATs perform well on the USMLE.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Harvey you know you love the bananas

Of course I do. Who doesn't love the dancing bananas?

 

[Static Line]

That's an assumption that a lot of people make, but I don't believe it's true. The people taking it are people who want to go to ACGME residencies, not necessarily the top people in the class. Remember, that a bunch of those people are the same ones who never wanted to go to DO schools in the first place and couldn't get into MD schools academically anyway. Taken in that light, it's no surprise that they don't score well.

Obviously, this is my ASUMPTION and it's different from yours. Yet, there is no evidence that I can find showing that DO students taking the tests are at the top of their classes. Based on the ones know who took it (yes, I know that's pretty poor evidence) they were a mix of good and bad students. Based on statisticcs from my school alone, though, most people did better on USMLE than on COMLEX. Yet, there is evidence that PBL students with <30 MCATs perform well on the USMLE.

I think what you say has some truth but there are many reasons to take the USMLE. As it stands right now I think I am gonna head to an AOA residency anyhow BUT I don't want to close any future doors by not taking it. Taking it now is only smart because I am at the top of my game just finishing up MSII. I am willing to move so it isn't a big deal for me but I know many who don't want to move oos for residency so not taking USMLE may be suicide.

As far as good student bad student goes. It seems to me the bad students who wanted to go into the allo world and couldn't are not the ones taking USMLE. They don't want to take any more exams than necessary. The ones I know taking it are the top, better prepared students.

 

[Kappy1]

Why wouldn't you like the dancing banana? They are so cute.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

That's an assumption that a lot of people make, but I don't believe it's true. The people taking it are people who want to go to ACGME residencies, not necessarily the top people in the class. Remember, that a bunch of those people are the same ones who never wanted to go to DO schools in the first place and couldn't get into MD schools academically anyway. Taken in that light, it's no surprise that they don't score well.

Obviously, this is my ASUMPTION and it's different from yours. Yet, there is no evidence that I can find showing that DO students taking the tests are at the top of their classes. Based on the ones know who took it (yes, I know that's pretty poor evidence) they were a mix of good and bad students. Based on statisticcs from my school alone, though, most people did better on USMLE than on COMLEX. Yet, there is evidence that PBL students with <30 MCATs perform well on the USMLE.

I don't agree. Not all fields require taking the USMLE, only the students looking to enter the more competitive fields will spend the money to take the USMLE. I acquiesce to your point there is no hard proof that can be found to prove only students in the top quarter/half/whatever take the USMLE, but it seems to follow from common sense that only those wanting highly competitive specialties would take the USMLE - and those students are those at the top of the class. Noone in the lower quarter of the class is looking for Derm, Neurosurg, or ortho - at least not very realistically. Although there may be a few from the lower portions of the classes who take the USMLE (for "the fun" of it or just to see how they would do), I really think it would be few and far between. The VAST MAJORITY, I think, are from the upper eschelons of the classes. And they are still self-selected, so, in theory, they should be prepared for the exam.

Hadn't heard the bit about PBL students doing better on the USMLE - interesting tidbit. And is this related to the non-PBL DO students or the entire group of medical students (DO and MD)?

I think what you say has some truth but there are many reasons to take the USMLE. As it stands right now I think I am gonna head to an AOA residency anyhow BUT I don't want to close any future doors by not taking it. Taking it now is only smart because I am at the top of my game just finishing up MSII. I am willing to move so it isn't a big deal for me but I know many who don't want to move oos for residency so not taking USMLE may be suicide.

As far as good student bad student goes. It seems to me the bad students who wanted to go into the allo world and couldn't are not the ones taking USMLE. They don't want to take any more exams than necessary. The ones I know taking it are the top, better prepared students.

Agreed. However, I think that you may be better served just taking step II, rather than taking step I. Depends on what field you want to enter. If you have any other questions, you may PM me.

jd

 

[HarveyCushing]

I wonder if there is something that the COMLEX does better than the USMLE? Maybe there would be a way for the two to come together and create one test between the two of them? Or would that mess up the "seperate but equal" thing?

 

[spicedmanna]

I wonder if there is something that the COMLEX does better than the USMLE? Maybe there would be a way for the two to come together and create one test between the two of them? Or would that mess up the "seperate but equal" thing?

Well, I heard that the COMLEX-USA Level 1 has more emphasis on "bugs and drugs," and of course, it tests OMM material, where the USMLE Step 1 does not. I don't see the two coming together mainly because of OMM, unless a common test is created for both allopathic and osteopathic medical schools and, in addition to the main test, an OMM supplementary test is created for DO schools.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Well, I heard that the COMLEX-USA Level 1 has more emphasis on "bugs and drugs," and of course, it tests OMM material, where the USMLE Step 1 does not. I don't see the two coming together mainly because of OMM, unless a common test is created for both allopathic and osteopathic medical schools and, in addition to the main test, an OMM supplementary test is created for DO schools.

That is what I was thinking. Have a common exam, and then DO students take a seperate OMM exam. It would create a more standard environment for medical education and force many of the "lower" DO schools to get their act together imo.

 

[Kappy1]

That is what I was thinking. Have a common exam, and then DO students take a seperate OMM exam. It would create a more standard environment for medical education and force many of the "lower" DO schools to get their act together imo.

I would agree.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

ok, I think it's official.

This thread has been

 

[HarveyCushing]

ok, I think it's official.

This thread has been

But the current topic is so much better.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

But the current topic is so much better.

I wasn't making any value judgements about the relative value of the current topic compared to the original subject - just noting that we had transitioned.

besides, it made for a good

jd