Question about GMO tours

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I'm a current intern who is faced with going on a GMO tour next year. Now that all the GME dust has settled, I'm trying to work with a detailer but he is only pushing billets at Camp Lejune and 29 Palms. As someone who is slightly (and by slightly, I mean completely) terrified of going to war and being a GMO, I wanted to learn about what other billets may be out there.

1. Does anybody know about the billets that are not with the marines?

2. And can anyone explain a few of the details of the different billets: MEF, MLG, SeaBees, Okinawa, ship board, etc? Like where do they deploy to and usually for how long? What do the clinic duties consist of?

3. Are there any one-year billets?

4. Finally, my soon-to-be-husband works for the state department so his job is routed in the DC area. I have heard there are billets in the National Capital area (Annapolis, Baltimore, Pax River, maybe as far as Portsmouth). Does anyone know of about any of these?

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me. I am kind of lost about all of this.

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The MEF is the umbrella organization for the main Marine Corps units. There are three main parts: The Division, the logistics group and the wing. The Division is the infantry. There are no female GMOs with the infantry. The logistics group provides support for the Division in terms of heavy engineering, transportation, food supplies, etc. Finally the wing provides air support to the Division. The Marine Corps is unique because they specialize in combined arms assaults.

I would recommend going to the greenside. The ethos of the Marine Corps is contagious and you'll never go back to the blueside.

There may be some 1-year billets in Okinawa.
 
I suspect the detailer is not telling you the whole truth. He is obviously pushing the Marine billets because those are the toughest to fill.

No offense, I'm speculating, but I'm surprised he is pushing a female for these billets. Don't females usually get the ship billets (if they don't want DMO or FSO) and guys get the marine billets?
 
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I'm a current intern who is faced with going on a GMO tour next year. Now that all the GME dust has settled, I'm trying to work with a detailer but he is only pushing billets at Camp Lejune and 29 Palms. As someone who is slightly (and by slightly, I mean completely) terrified of going to war and being a GMO, I wanted to learn about what other billets may be out there.

1. Does anybody know about the billets that are not with the marines?

2. And can anyone explain a few of the details of the different billets: MEF, MLG, SeaBees, Okinawa, ship board, etc? Like where do they deploy to and usually for how long? What do the clinic duties consist of?

3. Are there any one-year billets?

4. Finally, my soon-to-be-husband works for the state department so his job is routed in the DC area. I have heard there are billets in the National Capital area (Annapolis, Baltimore, Pax River, maybe as far as Portsmouth). Does anyone know of about any of these?

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me. I am kind of lost about all of this.

As a Current Navy Flight Surgeon, Former Portsmouth intern and a recent returnee from an Individual Augmentee deployment with a Marine Wing unit, I'll try shed a little more light on your questions.

1. Non-Marine billets - as above, try to go Greenside, you will be happier with your command environment. This is discussed on a few other threads, so I won't go into it.
A. That being said, the SeaBees motto is "We Build, We Fight." Consequently, these units do quite a few field exercises (ie 2-3 week campouts) and deploy regularly to combat zones. This is generally scheduled years in advance, and you should be able to get a good idea of when/if your unit will deploy during your time there prior to accepting orders. They have a generally more rigid interpretation of everything, so they can be difficult to work with (per my SeaBee GMO and SeaBee Officer friends).
B. Okinawa - this is a Marine Base, unless there are spots at the Naval Hospital (I imagine there are). I have friends at similar billets at a few different Military Treatment Facilities in Japan (on Navy bases) and I met them on my IA at Al Taqaddum, Iraq, so they certainly weren't safe from deployment. Spots with the Marines would be preferable, as the units generally know their deployment schedules. As mentioned above, you would only be eligible for the MLG (Marine Logistics Group) spots. Division is for men only, and the Wing has flight surgeons (makes sense).
C. Shipboard - this is probably your best option, and as above, being a female doesn't hurt, since your detailer has to fill the Marine Division spots with men and they are among his first priorities. I am 100% sure there are shipboard spots in Norfolk, but it might be a little struggle getting these, since many of the Portsmouth interns like to stay there and then return to residency, which saves the Navy money on moving costs and above all, the Navy is CHEAP when it comes to stupid things like your satisfaction and convenience.
D. Other random places -
i. Annapolis - bad reputation among my friends who have been there because it is a tough and fairly thankless job, and you could still get an IA billet.
ii. Pax River - I don't know much about this job specifically, but I'm sure it is similar to many other branch medical clinic jobs as Navy Facilities not in the immediate region of a major Hospital. Working directly for Navy Medicine as opposed to a line command will definitely color your perception of Military Medicine, and not in a good way. In addition, you will almost definitely draw an IA billet, unless you are the only medical provider at a base, in which case you had better be prepared to spend most of your time calling more senior medical personnel with questions about all the administrative and medical things that you were never taught to treat/do.
2. As for your detailer, he is pushing 29 Palms/Camp LeJeune, because those are the least desirable locations for most people, and location is one of the most important things for your GMO tour. You have an obvious need to be close to your husband in DC, so be persistent in pressuring the detailer. I believe we have the same detailer, and he is far from helpful, most MSC officers (Medical Service Corps) are useless to you, other than to complicate your life (PA's, Optometrists excepted). I think this stems from their complete lack of understanding of health care from a provider standpoint, plus, detailing billets go to people who aren't very good at their chosen profession, so the Navy has to use them some way. Again, there are many other jobs available, I know this for sure, because the Navy is extremely short on Flight Surgeons and, at least for now, is not filling purely clinic jobs (aka Claimancy 18 or BSO 18) with flight surgeons, even when their is a demand for their services. This opens up at least 15 spots for GMO's, I know we have a FS designated spot at my command that is going to be empty if a GMO doesn't fill it.

You can private message me if you have anymore questions, that's about all I can do today. Pretty long-winded of me really, but I HATE AHLTA and will do just about anything to put off my note writing.
 
I was a GMO with the Marines at Lejeune (with an infantry battalion) and enjoyed it very much. Well, most of it. Actually called my detailer a week after the GMESB results were out and asked for USMC infantry, which she was delighted to give me. I did ask her what spots were available, and she said "ONLY USMC" ... the lie was clear in the coming months as several of my classmates got shipboard positions. Remember your GMO detailer is not your friend or your advocate.

I'd mostly echo what IgD said ...

But I'd do my best to avoid a Marine billet if I was female. You probably can't go to Wing unless you applied for and got a FS billet in the match, and all the fun stuff goes on over at Division, where you definitely can't go. Which leaves Group.

All the sick lame & lazy Marines who lack adsep potential eventually filter over to noncombat positions (which is what Group does). Group is where most of the female Marines wind up, and for a whole bunch of reasons I won't go into here, female Marines as a group tend to have a substantially higher rate of psych- and medical-related issues than male Marines. What this means is that your day at Group will be a 0730-1600 smorgasbord of sick call, routine physicals, med board related garbage, and other administrative torture.

I'd sure take Lejeune over 29 Palms though. Both places are hot, but at least 29 Palms is a dry heat.

I don't know what kind of serious advice to give you. The detailer is pushing a USMC billet because few people want them. As long as he's "offering" you a USMC billet, I'd decline and wait to see what happens.

But even if you end up with Group, you'll find that there are positive aspects. Like IgD says, Marines are great people to work for and serve. The command environment is much, much different than what you get at a hospital.

Last, don't be terrified of going to war as a GMO. Wherever you go - even if it's with the Marines - you will be safe in the rear, and you will be well protected. Every once in a while you'll hear of a GMO being forced into hazardous situations by either bad luck or a stupid commander, but these are the extraordinary exceptions. As an infantry GMO who deployed twice for 14 months total and supported two large operations in Iraq, I was close to shooting only once and even then didn't feel like I was in any particular danger.

If you deploy with the Marines, it'll be to a well secured base with air conditioning, hot water, very good meals served 3-4x/day by KBR, probably internet service, maybe even a Pizza Hut, massage parlor, and daily Jazzercise classes. You probably think I'm joking, but I'm not.
 
Last, don't be terrified of going to war as a GMO. Wherever you go - even if it's with the Marines - you will be safe in the rear, and you will be well protected. Every once in a while you'll hear of a GMO being forced into hazardous situations by either bad luck or a stupid commander, but these are the extraordinary exceptions. As an infantry GMO who deployed twice for 14 months total and supported two large operations in Iraq, I was close to shooting only once and even then didn't feel like I was in any particular danger.

If you deploy with the Marines, it'll be to a well secured base with air conditioning, hot water, very good meals served 3-4x/day by KBR, probably internet service, maybe even a Pizza Hut, massage parlor, and daily Jazzercise classes. You probably think I'm joking, but I'm not.

For the other side of the story check out the book On Call in Hell. Its written by navy commander Richard Jadick, about his deployment with the marines as a GMO. Granted, he's gung-ho, and with an infantry division so I'm sure this is a bit different from the typical GMO position. Spoiler: "Far-Forward" Medicine
 
For the other side of the story check out the book On Call in Hell. Its written by navy commander Richard Jadick, about his deployment with the marines as a GMO. Granted, he's gung-ho, and with an infantry division so I'm sure this is a bit different from the typical GMO position. Spoiler: "Far-Forward" Medicine

He would be one of the extraordinary exceptions I mentioned. :) He's one guy. I knew a GMO who was there for the invasion of Iraq whose driver was shot and whose unarmored Humvee ambulance was ventilated while he treated a patient in the back. And usnavdoc had an insane CO who wanted his physicians out on patrol with the Marines. I'm not denying that these things happened to some GMOs ...

Most of the rest of us had very, very different experiences. Expectations for future GMOs ought to line up with the quiet stories, especially these days, when the op tempo in Iraq is way down. (I don't think Afghanistan will ever be as hot as bits of Iraq were during certain times.)

But yes, the potential for danger is there.

Honestly, I think deploying to either theater as a physician is probably safer than staying home and driving to work on a freeway full of phone-blabbing cheeseburger-eating makeup-applying nuts every day. Just stay out of helicopters.
 
Ship billets are hard to come by. They are highly desired. They will also likely only be in San Diego, Norfolk and Sasebo Japan. The quality of life can be nice. You get to load up a dorm room and live in it for deployment. You also have more chance for humanitarian missions.

The GMO detailer is different from the Flight Surgeon detailer. The GMO detailer is guy who I honestly think is trying to do his best to take care of folks. Obviously, things worked out very well for me, so I am biased. But I had a lot dealings with him and he was always reasonable and fair.

I recommend calling him. It's much better than e-mail. If you need his phone number, PM me.
 
Thanks for all the help.

I do realize the detailer is hiding billets from us but he is also guarding his shipboard billets very closely right now, even from females.

I have heard that the best way to get a billet that is not being advertised is to speak directly to someone at that command or clinic or whatever. Since I have no idea exactly what billets are where (I have only gotten vague impressions from other residents), I'm not sure how to go about finding them. Is it bad to just email various commands?

I didn't apply for flight surgery, but there may be billets for GMOs that were designated for flight surgeons? Where would these billets be and is it frowned upon to start seeking them out?

Finally, how do people deal with being deployed and away from their loved ones (and pets) for the majority of the year? Is it easy to at least talk to your family?

Sorry for the deluge of questions but I really appreciate everyone's responses.
 
Thanks for all the help.

I do realize the detailer is hiding billets from us but he is also guarding his shipboard billets very closely right now, even from females.

I have heard that the best way to get a billet that is not being advertised is to speak directly to someone at that command or clinic or whatever. Since I have no idea exactly what billets are where (I have only gotten vague impressions from other residents), I'm not sure how to go about finding them. Is it bad to just email various commands?

I didn't apply for flight surgery, but there may be billets for GMOs that were designated for flight surgeons? Where would these billets be and is it frowned upon to start seeking them out?

Finally, how do people deal with being deployed and away from their loved ones (and pets) for the majority of the year? Is it easy to at least talk to your family?

Sorry for the deluge of questions but I really appreciate everyone's responses.

Can I ask, what kind of PGY2 (and where) programs did you apply to?
 
I applied for Internal Med and Anesthesia, both at Bethesda. I'm an alternate for both programs.
 
Sorry for the deluge of questions but I really appreciate everyone's responses.

I feel my blood pressure rising reading your post. I think its B.S. you can't get a straight answer. That feeling you can't trust those above you who are responsible for your welfare is even worse.

Honestly you are probably safer being surrounded by a squad of Marines in a combat zone than in the Navy medicine environment where you will face shady medico-political-administrative types.

Put your pack on and come over to the green side.
 
I feel my blood pressure rising reading your post. I think its B.S. you can't get a straight answer. That feeling you can't trust those above you who are responsible for your welfare is even worse.

Honestly you are probably safer being surrounded by a squad of Marines in a combat zone than in the Navy medicine environment where you will face shady medico-political-administrative types.

Put your pack on and come over to the green side.

I agree whole heartedly with the bolded section above, that's why I'm bolting for the civilian sector after doing my Flight Surgery thing. I wanted a career in Navy Medicine, but practicing medicine is not the emphasis as you progress up the ranks, at least in terms of MTF "leadership." Maybe it's just me.
 
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It is sad that they took down the list of billets. And frustrating that they make it seem like we have only two options for a GMO.
 
Thanks for all the help.

I do realize the detailer is hiding billets from us but he is also guarding his shipboard billets very closely right now, even from females.

I have heard that the best way to get a billet that is not being advertised is to speak directly to someone at that command or clinic or whatever. Since I have no idea exactly what billets are where (I have only gotten vague impressions from other residents), I'm not sure how to go about finding them. Is it bad to just email various commands?

What I did: ask anyone and everyone that may know anything about it. Ask attendings with operational experience what they think. Ask senior residents who just got back from GMO land. Ask about what's out there. Ask ask ask. When you're able to tell the detailer that you request "X" because it's available and I heard good things about it. You're more likely to get what you want or at least the detailer might know and be able to help you. it sounds like you don't know what you want - how can he?

I didn't apply for flight surgery, but there may be billets for GMOs that were designated for flight surgeons? Probably not Where would these billets be and is it frowned upon to start seeking them out?

Finally, how do people deal with being deployed and away from their loved ones (and pets) for the majority of the year? Is it easy to at least talk to your family?

Sorry for the deluge of questions but I really appreciate everyone's responses.
See above
 
Semper Fi

The MEF is the umbrella organization for the main Marine Corps units. There are three main parts: The Division, the logistics group and the wing. The Division is the infantry. There are no female GMOs with the infantry. The logistics group provides support for the Division in terms of heavy engineering, transportation, food supplies, etc. Finally the wing provides air support to the Division. The Marine Corps is unique because they specialize in combined arms assaults.

I would recommend going to the greenside. The ethos of the Marine Corps is contagious and you'll never go back to the blueside.

There may be some 1-year billets in Okinawa.
 
As for GMO's filling previously designated FS billets, this IS GOING TO HAPPEN this summer.

But they will be the billets formerly known as Claimancy-18 billets. This means you will be working for a clinic exclusively, no line chain of command. So unless you really like the area you are living in, you probably won't enjoy being a sick call slave for AD members who don't know you except as their doctor. It's different when you are part of their unit, in a good way.
 
So unless you really like the area you are living in, you probably won't enjoy being a sick call slave for AD members who don't know you except as their doctor. It's different when you are part of their unit, in a good way.

I believe you've hit it exactly.

The absolute worst days of my GMO job were the handful of times I covered the weekend active duty acute care clinic at the Lejeune hospital. Any AD people who came to the ER on the weekend and were deemed low acuity (sprained ankle, URI, yeast infection, etc) were turfed off to my little office. I had the ER staff to fall back on if needed, but honestly it was all such low acuity trivial **** that sensible people wouldn't go to the ER for, that I never needed their help.

Oh, my god, did that suck. I would put a gun in my mouth if that was my job every day.

At least as a GMO with the infantry you have an IDC to field the mind-numbingly trivial stuff and occasional field trips to do line stuff. Just a couple minutes shooting or chucking grenades or dropping mortar rounds in tubes makes up for a lot of the sick call tedium. Even the admin duties were better tolerated because they represented a little variety.

Next to being the GMO on a carrier, a pure clinic job has got to rank somewhere between Purgatory and Hell itself. M-F, 0730-1600, dealing with that kind of "acute care clinic" crap.

Then again, I hated all my primary care rotations as a med student and intern. Maybe some people like that kind of thing.
 
If you deploy with the Marines, it'll be to a well secured base with air conditioning, hot water, very good meals served 3-4x/day by KBR, probably internet service, maybe even a Pizza Hut, massage parlor, and daily Jazzercise classes. You probably think I'm joking, but I'm not.

If you deploy with USMC to Iraq it will be like that. There likely will not be anymore 1, 2, or 3 MARDIV elements deploying to Iraq anytime after summer 09. 4th MARDIV is kind of taking over there, and regular infantry are most all getting switched to Afghan, which will not have very many of those from the list above, if any.
 
If you deploy with USMC to Iraq it will be like that. There likely will not be anymore 1, 2, or 3 MARDIV elements deploying to Iraq anytime after summer 09. 4th MARDIV is kind of taking over there, and regular infantry are most all getting switched to Afghan, which will not have very many of those from the list above, if any.

Afghanistan had all of the above in 2004 when I was there. I missed out on the Burger King opening in Bagram by just a few weeks.

Since then, Google's satellite photos appear to show a newly constructed swimming pool about 100 feet from where my little BAS was in Bagram.

Even the border FOBs like Salerno, where I spent nearly half of my deployment, had great KBR food and decent places to live. Hot water, showers, air conditioning & heat. Asadabad wasn't so great (no KBR :(), and a rocket blew up our showers, and the Army SF bastards there wouldn't share theirs with the Marines, but construction was ongoing and it's been 4 years.

USMC deployment living won't be dorm-like living the way ship living is, but it's not bad ... especially for a doctor who doesn't go out kicking in doors and outranks everyone except the CO, XO, and sometimes the S3.
 
Afghanistan had all of the above in 2004 when I was there. I missed out on the Burger King opening in Bagram by just a few weeks.

Since then, Google's satellite photos appear to show a newly constructed swimming pool about 100 feet from where my little BAS was in Bagram.

Even the border FOBs like Salerno, where I spent nearly half of my deployment, had great KBR food and decent places to live. Hot water, showers, air conditioning & heat. Asadabad wasn't so great (no KBR :(), and a rocket blew up our showers, and the Army SF bastards there wouldn't share theirs with the Marines, but construction was ongoing and it's been 4 years.

USMC deployment living won't be dorm-like living the way ship living is, but it's not bad ... especially for a doctor who doesn't go out kicking in doors and outranks everyone except the CO, XO, and sometimes the S3.


Awesome, so I guess they are just screwing a few 'choice' battalions. We've been told new FOB, very austere, and no KBR, internet, or fast food.
 
Awesome, so I guess they are just screwing a few 'choice' battalions. We've been told new FOB, very austere, and no KBR, internet, or fast food.

Well I suppose, from the news stories I hear (no more intel briefs for me :)), that the troop increases may be focused on more border action ... so maybe more battalions will spend more time in new small FOBs on the border.

Afghanistan was downright peaceful when I was there. Times have changed.
 
As for GMO's filling previously designated FS billets, this IS GOING TO HAPPEN this summer.

But they will be the billets formerly known as Claimancy-18 billets. This means you will be working for a clinic exclusively, no line chain of command. So unless you really like the area you are living in, you probably won't enjoy being a sick call slave for AD members who don't know you except as their doctor. It's different when you are part of their unit, in a good way.

I could see how this would be horribly boring but as I am trying to stay in a particular area, this may be the way to go? I'm not a big clinic fan but it is something I could do. Although I have not done C4 yet and have not shot anything ever, I think I would be much better at clinic than shooting/grenade tossing/etc.
 
I believe you've hit it exactly.

The absolute worst days of my GMO job were the handful of times I covered the weekend active duty acute care clinic at the Lejeune hospital. Any AD people who came to the ER on the weekend and were deemed low acuity (sprained ankle, URI, yeast infection, etc) were turfed off to my little office. I had the ER staff to fall back on if needed, but honestly it was all such low acuity trivial **** that sensible people wouldn't go to the ER for, that I never needed their help.

Oh, my god, did that suck. I would put a gun in my mouth if that was my job every day.

At least as a GMO with the infantry you have an IDC to field the mind-numbingly trivial stuff and occasional field trips to do line stuff. Just a couple minutes shooting or chucking grenades or dropping mortar rounds in tubes makes up for a lot of the sick call tedium. Even the admin duties were better tolerated because they represented a little variety.

Next to being the GMO on a carrier, a pure clinic job has got to rank somewhere between Purgatory and Hell itself. M-F, 0730-1600, dealing with that kind of "acute care clinic" crap.

Then again, I hated all my primary care rotations as a med student and intern. Maybe some people like that kind of thing.
STD Clinic FT Bragg NC. The absolutely worst GMO duty anywhere. Not sure what you had to do to get the position but it must have been bad.
 
I could see how this would be horribly boring but as I am trying to stay in a particular area, this may be the way to go? I'm not a big clinic fan but it is something I could do. Although I have not done C4 yet and have not shot anything ever, I think I would be much better at clinic than shooting/grenade tossing/etc.

So, a couple of things 1) the shooting and grenade tossing is on the side - not part of the job. If we're relying on docs to blow people up, we're screwed 2) While I wasn't happy to get a GMO tour, and I went to the blue side; I have to ask the question: If you're not into that whole "military thing" why did you sign up? I mean, you knew the military was in fact a military, right?

Again, I understand the frustration that comes with an involuntary GMO. I appreciate the anxiety of having a giant question mark for a future, but I just don't understand how some people join and then are shocked. Try to own up to the assignment and meet the challenge. Think of all the cool experiences. I know you don't believe me, but it will mean a lot to you someday to walk back through the hospital with a SWMDO or FMF pin on. You can earn a new pride in your service, learn a lot about the military we are in and really be a part of a pretty special team.
 
So, a couple of things 1) the shooting and grenade tossing is on the side - not part of the job. If we're relying on docs to blow people up, we're screwed 2) While I wasn't happy to get a GMO tour, and I went to the blue side; I have to ask the question: If you're not into that whole "military thing" why did you sign up? I mean, you knew the military was in fact a military, right?

Again, I understand the frustration that comes with an involuntary GMO. I appreciate the anxiety of having a giant question mark for a future, but I just don't understand how some people join and then are shocked. Try to own up to the assignment and meet the challenge. Think of all the cool experiences. I know you don't believe me, but it will mean a lot to you someday to walk back through the hospital with a SWMDO or FMF pin on. You can earn a new pride in your service, learn a lot about the military we are in and really be a part of a pretty special team.

The reason I was caught off guard by the "military thing" was because I had a recruiter who blatantly lied about what was expected of a doctor after HPSP. He quite literally told me that I could do a civilian residency and a military residency was only an option if I wanted to go that route. And that GMO tours were very far and few between, for those rare people that didn't know what they wanted to do or that could not get into a civilian or military residency. He actually didn't answer many of my questions about GMO tours and since no one I knew had ever even considered the military, I didn't realize I should press him for real answers or talk to anyone else. I didn't think that recruiters would lie. Lesson learned. Which is why I'm so hesistant about a GMO tour and want to find out what I'm getting into and how I can try to get at least some of my needs regarding location or tour type met.
 
People have been alluding to the scarcity of ship billets.

Is this simply because the detailers are pushing so hard for USMC billets, and tend to keep shipboard close to their vests, or is it just very difficult to get a shipboard billet? What sort of of things go into considering billets?

Still a lowly undergrad considering an HPSP, but would rather have my questions answered now rather than later :)
 
People have been alluding to the scarcity of ship billets.

Is this simply because the detailers are pushing so hard for USMC billets, and tend to keep shipboard close to their vests, or is it just very difficult to get a shipboard billet? What sort of of things go into considering billets?

Still a lowly undergrad considering an HPSP, but would rather have my questions answered now rather than later :)

There are very few ships to go around (maybe 4-5 per coast). There are lots of Marine billets. Almsot everybody wants a ship billet (at least 20-30 people per coast).

It is not very useful for you to get this info now. It will literally change a half a dozen times before you are in the position to have this problem.

If you're not ready to jump into the unkown regarding GMO tours, then you shouldn't join. As a pre-med you will get very little useful information as to which specific GMOs are out there. Just know that you will have no control over whether or not you do one.
 
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