Question about have a huge CONNECTION

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Determination15

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I've been having a lot of questions building up so I finally decided to post something because I'm really indecisive about it. I need some opinions please!

I have a HUGE connection. The person I know is known by a LOT at a LOT of the dental schools. He is a very important person, and is best well known to my state school.

Should I use him? I feel a little uncomfortable using a "connection" because I don't want to feel like I got in due to just that reason, I want to know I got in on my own. However, as I've noticed, this is becoming more and more competitive each year, and not to mention this June will be my third time applying and have never once received even an interview.

I have stats on the lower-end but have good reason (not excuses) behind them. I also have many years experience in the dental field, with community service, and a rigorous course load from my undergrad and grad.

Would you use a "connection"?
 
Your "connection" may help you get your foot in the door, but no self respecting Dean of Admissions will accept you based solely on that.
 
Determination15 said:
I've been having a lot of questions building up so I finally decided to post something because I'm really indecisive about it. I need some opinions please!

I have a HUGE connection. The person I know is known by a LOT at a LOT of the dental schools. He is a very important person, and is best well known to my state school.

Should I use him? I feel a little uncomfortable using a "connection" because I don't want to feel like I got in due to just that reason, I want to know I got in on my own. However, as I've noticed, this is becoming more and more competitive each year, and not to mention this June will be my third time applying and have never once received even an interview.

I have stats on the lower-end but have good reason (not excuses) behind them. I also have many years experience in the dental field, with community service, and a rigorous course load from my undergrad and grad.

Would you use a "connection"?
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pull out all the stops but basically wat the poster above me said still holds
 
doc toothache said:
Your "connection" may help you get your foot in the door, but no self respecting Dean of Admissions will accept you based solely on that.
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Oh absolutely. And thats all that I need is a shove or push or "foot in the door". A lot of dental schools pass on applicants like me when they are just throwing out apps due to numbers (GPA,DAT). If someone such as my "connection" is writing a letter of recommendation for me or even calling the school for me, which he would ONLY do if he truely believed I am an excellent candidate for dental school, then that has to mean something. All I need is the adcoms to get my application in their hands and an actual interview and I KNOW I would do great and show them why I am a great candidate.
 
Determination15 said:
Oh absolutely. And thats all that I need is a shove or push or "foot in the door". A lot of dental schools pass on applicants like me when they are just throwing out apps due to numbers (GPA,DAT). If someone such as my "connection" is writing a letter of recommendation for me or even calling the school for me, which he would ONLY do if he truely believed I am an excellent candidate for dental school, then that has to mean something. All I need is the adcoms to get my application in their hands and an actual interview and I KNOW I would do great and show them why I am a great candidate.
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Ds may be less concerned on whether you are a ''great candidate" and more concerned whether or not you have what it takes to make it through the 4-year grind. Does it really take a great guru to convince adcoms that they have been wrong for the past 2 tries?
 
doc toothache said:
Ds may be less concerned on whether you are a ''great candidate" and more concerned whether or not you have what it takes to make it through the 4-year grind. Does it really take a great guru to convince adcoms that they have been wrong for the past 2 tries?
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True about the first sentence. To be honest I don't even know if they have been "wrong the past 2 tries" necessarily..the first time I didn't get in was due to the fact that I had applied to a 7-year program (undergrad then straight to DS) and the second time I had only applied to two schools and I submitted very very late (Oct 30th).

My stats are:
cumulative GPA: 3.23
science GPA: 2.6 (whats killing me)

And I did show a decent upward trend. My past three semesters (starting with the one furthest away) was 3.0, 3.4, 4.0. And no the 4.0 semester is not "easy A" classes, it was three graduate biology courses.
 
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Whats your DAT score? It better be a 27aa if you are thinking about getting in.
 
I would retake the DAT before even thinking I'm worthy enough to "use" this connection.
 
Determination15 said:
My DAT academic average is a 17
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Unless your connection is President Obama, you should probably retake the DAT! hehe. Seriously though, a 17 will probably be too low to offset that science gpa. If you could raise your score by a few points that would really help.
 
Determination15 said:
True about the first sentence. To be honest I don't even know if they have been "wrong the past 2 tries" necessarily..the first time I didn't get in was due to the fact that I had applied to a 7-year program (undergrad then straight to DS) and the second time I had only applied to two schools and I submitted very very late (Oct 30th).

My stats are:
cumulative GPA: 3.23
science GPA: 2.6 (whats killing me)

And I did show a decent upward trend. My past three semesters (starting with the one furthest away) was 3.0, 3.4, 4.0. And no the 4.0 semester is not "easy A" classes, it was three graduate biology courses.
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Do you know this connection through your parents? I'm just wondering because I would think that's one of the only reasons that I can think of where a successful person would bend over backwards for an applicant. Or did you work for them? I mean, if you have a long standing work relationship, I really do think that's admirable. Or maybe you volunteer at his/her office?

WHOA 2.6 and a 17..In my opinion, if your GPA is that low you have shown almost no dedication. 3 semesters of okay grades doesn't make up for four years of the dedication that your competition has put in. I'm sure a connection has gotten someone in with your stats..who's to say you can't be a dentist? Many people have with your stats and have been successful too.
 
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DoctaWalnuts said:
Do you know this connection through your parents? I'm just wondering because I would think that's one of the only reasons that I can think of where a successful person would bend over backwards for an applicant. Or did you work for them? I mean, if you have a long standing work relationship, I really do think that's admirable. Or maybe you volunteer at his/her office?

WHOA 2.6 and a 17..In my opinion, if your GPA is that low you have shown almost no dedication. 3 semesters of okay grades doesn't make up for four years of the dedication that your competition has put in. I'm sure a connection has gotten someone in with your stats..who's to say you can't be a dentist? Many people have with your stats and have been successful too.
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I know they are low scores and I'm aware of others higher grades and higher DAT scores, but to say I have had no dedication is a HUGE assumption. I work two jobs and have since I started college, because I help my mother with the bills as well as my own. I don't go out, I don't party, I didn't go away to school. I spend my free time in the books, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I just don't have that much free time at all. Those three semesters I posted weren't my only good semesters they were just the most recent, and the last one where I took all grad courses I cut my weekly hours I worked.

I worked too much. I didn't have enough time to study as much as I should, therefore I didn't. I made changes. I am in the process of turning things around and pulling everything up. I haven't given up. I am adjusting and making the necessary changes because I'm determined and I know I can handle the 4-year grind so to speak, which is all I'm trying to prove.
 
Retake and do well on the DAT - you need like a 22 total science score to offset that sGPA. I had a strong connection to a school, got a interview, and got rejected. The schools that accepted me had absolutely no connection to me at all.

I had 20TS, 19AA, 3.55 overall GPA, 3.48 sGPA, and was accepted March 31st (way after Dec 1st), and I took a challenging course load, and worked between 30-60 hours a week, and did volunteer stuff.
 
DoctaWalnuts said:
Do you know this connection through your parents? I'm just wondering because I would think that's one of the only reasons that I can think of where a successful person would bend over backwards for an applicant. Or did you work for them? I mean, if you have a long standing work relationship, I really do think that's admirable. Or maybe you volunteer at his/her office?QUOTE]

I have worked with two dentists for the past 4+ years in a very small private practice and am very close with them, but they are not who I am talking about, neither is it anyone my parents know. The specific connection I'm talking about is someone whom I'm very very close with's father.
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psi169 said:
I can empathize by being bogged down with working and having to sacrifice your spare time for school. However, you are up against some stiff competition. Dental schools are picking the upper-half of the college graduates. If your GPA is below average, then you need your DAT to be above average. Hovering around the 3.0 mark, your DAT needs to be outstanding. That's the truth. And no connection of yours will be able to get in a candidate that is an outlier as far as stats go. If you feel you would be capable of having a 3.5+ GPA time permitting, then prove it in your DAT. Study up.
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Thanks! DAT is pretty much my last chance, although my GPA may rise slightly, but not too much. I am retaking it in June and have started studying.
 
Maka said:
Retake and do well on the DAT - you need like a 22 total science score to offset that sGPA. I had a strong connection to a school, got a interview, and got rejected. The schools that accepted me had absolutely no connection to me at all.

I had 20TS, 19AA, 3.55 overall GPA, 3.48 sGPA, and was accepted March 31st (way after Dec 1st), and I took a challenging course load, and worked between 30-60 hours a week, and did volunteer stuff.
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You have a good GPA! And scores. Do you recommend any certain DAT prep books? Currently I have Kaplan, Barrons, and CliffNotes. Is CrackDAT anygood?
 
I want to be positive but realistic. There is no way in hell you are getting in with a 2.6 sgpa and a 17 on the DAT especially with the increasing competition unless your connection is your godfather who is the dean of admissions somewhere. I am not saying that you wouldn't be an amazing dentist or that you don't have the drive, but it is a straight up numbers game in the beginning and schools are just going to pass you over. Maybe if you posted your graduate gpa that would get us a better idea. If you have a 3.5 in your program and retake the dat and get a 20 I think it would have more pull than a letter of recommendation.
 
And now I feel like an idiot because in the time I posted this, five others have already commented. As for study materials, I feel the crack dat pat was a huge help along with the Dat Destroyer.
 
Well it's not really a "grad GPA" because I'm not formally in a program, I'm doing a post-bacc and my GPA is a 4.0 (on my 2nd semester).

And since I am applying this June (for Fall 2011) I was planning on also applying for a Masters or Certificate Program (the one year ones) to begin this fall, to help my scores. And definitely retaking the DAT in June.

Thanks, I've heard DD and Crack are two good ones, should have gotten them before.
 
Sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck!
 
Determination15 said:
Well it's not really a "grad GPA" because I'm not formally in a program, I'm doing a post-bacc and my GPA is a 4.0 (on my 2nd semester).

And since I am applying this June (for Fall 2011) I was planning on also applying for a Masters or Certificate Program (the one year ones) to begin this fall, to help my scores. And definitely retaking the DAT in June.

Thanks, I've heard DD and Crack are two good ones, should have gotten them before.
Click to expand...

I would also say...APPLY EARLY! try to take the DAT June 3rd if you can. and submit your app June 3rd (the first day it is available) I dont have the best stats, I have decent ones, but b/c i didnt take my DAT until sept, schools didnt consider me complete... with decent stats and extra curriculars and blah blah blah, to this point I have recieved just one interview (i got the invitation this week), and 3 rejections...
 
I agree with the above posters. I had a "connection", as in a connection on the adcom committee on one of the schools I applied to. Nothing came of it. I got into the school I was accepted to by two things: my last semester grades (which pulled up my GPA pretty significantly) and my interview (which I nailed). Bottom line is, things don't just happen - you have to MAKE it happen. Your situation can get better with hard work on both your GPA and DAT score. Don't depend on anyone else to help you achieve your goals. Good luck!
 
Although I appreciate your gumption, as others have pointed out, your numbers won't get you in. I am sure you are a great guy, and obviously a hard worker who has their heart in the right place, but ultimately, the numbers need to be there...The school needs solid verification on your ability to handle the academic rigors of the program.

Food for thought: The Dean of University of Illinois was just, ahem, "let go," for trying to get in strong connections who were not strong candidates.

More food for thought: At a recent interview, there was a girl who was dropping names left and right. Nothing looks more immature and insecure. The act screams of desperation.

I have had opportunities for VERY established and respected individuals to do just what you are asking. Ultimately, I politely asked for them to not make calls on my behalf...

Make your ties with admissions staff via your own charm and professionalism. They are the keys to opening the door to get your foot through.
 
Just to reiterate, retake the DAT as you cannot bank on connections: case in point, I have 3 dentists in the family who graduated from one school, all 3 taught/currently teach there now, I had a personal meeting with the Dean and a bunch of other big-wig faculty, and then got some bogus interview offer where 3 out of the 4 dates listed were in the past, and the last remaining available day had "been booked out for several months"...

Needless to say I declined their post Dec. interview offer.
 
psi169 said:
Your sGPA is almost a whole point higher than OP's. And I wouldn't exactly call that low.
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That's the point....I barely got in with those stats. I'm saying that OP really needs a boost to make their app more competitive, and the "easiest" way to do that is probably just smashing the DAT.
 
Determination15 said:
You have a good GPA! And scores. Do you recommend any certain DAT prep books? Currently I have Kaplan, Barrons, and CliffNotes. Is CrackDAT anygood?
Click to expand...

I would def do Crack Dat Pat...I didn't look at that PAT until 3 days before the test, and just began using it, and somehow eeked out a 17 PAT. Destroyer was Amazing for Ochem...1.5 weeks before the test I was scoring 12 on the practice tests (topscore) in Ochem, then pulled a 19 Ochem on the DAT - The only reason was destroyer. I bought a used Kaplan book for Bio, which was pretty good. My "strategy" was using the Kaplan book to lay the groundwork, Destroyer to burnish the knowledge, and TopScore tests to polish it. I also got lucky in that the school that accepted me said they did not care about PAT scores at all (seeing as I sucked in that section).
 
im not being derogatory here, though it comes off that way through the written word.

Grow up.

The world is a cold, harsh place. Stop wasting your time asking "should i use this advantage to get where i want to go" and spend your time on real questions.

Use every (ethical) advantage you can to get to where you want to go.

And like another poster said, your connection wont get you in without you having the app to back it up. His word might put you over the top of an equally qualified candidate but thats all you can hope for (in my opinion).
 
Lethstang said:
im not being derogatory here, though it comes off that way through the written word.

Grow up.

The world is a cold, harsh place. Stop wasting your time asking "should i use this advantage to get where i want to go" and spend your time on real questions.

Use every (ethical) advantage you can to get to where you want to go.

And like another poster said, your connection wont get you in without you having the app to back it up. His word might put you over the top of an equally qualified candidate but thats all you can hope for (in my opinion).
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I have seen several people post about their connections to dental school, and I agree with Lethstang, grow up. Use your d4mn connections and keep your mouth shut about it. Current applicants don't want to hear about your advantages, especially when they are applying for the same seats.
 
Thanks to everyone who gave ADVICE. I'm definitely going to get CrackDAT and Destroyer. I wasn't too sure how heavily schools rely on DAT scores, but after reading your posts it seems fair to say that I do need high scores to offset my low GPA. Thank you!!!

I know I need to pull up my scores, obviously. The whole point of this thread was to get anyones opinion on whether or not a connection was a good idea. And as I said before, I do have a strong background that can hold up my application on its on, without the connection, besides the numbers which I am currently in the process of bringing up.

To Lethstang and FutureDent020....I REALLY am not that SDN member that blogs about what advantages I have over others to brag or try to make myself seem like a better person. (Obviously, hence my stats).
 
Determination15 said:
Thanks to everyone who gave ADVICE. I'm definitely going to get CrackDAT and Destroyer. I wasn't too sure how heavily schools rely on DAT scores, but after reading your posts it seems fair to say that I do need high scores to offset my low GPA. Thank you!!!

I know I need to pull up my scores, obviously. The whole point of this thread was to get anyones opinion on whether or not a connection was a good idea. And as I said before, I do have a strong background that can hold up my application on its on, without the connection, besides the numbers which I am currently in the process of bringing up.

To Lethstang and FutureDent020....I REALLY am not that SDN member that blogs about what advantages I have over others to brag or try to make myself seem like a better person. (Obviously, hence my stats).
Click to expand...
Yea, it does not sound like you are bragging about your connections at all. My point was to use your connections, but do not broadcast them. People do not need to know how you got into dental school. Just do whatever you can to do so.
 
Why would you even start this thread with this type of question?


And i've read the word "connection" so many times in this thread i forgot what the word meant haha

seriously though, stupid thread...

I also agree with Lethstang and FutureDent...
 
Determination15 said:
And as I said before, I do have a strong background that can hold up my application on its on, without the connection, besides the numbers which I am currently in the process of bringing up.
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Do whatever it takes to get in! That's what I would do. However, I would also get help on your personal statement, your English is pitiful.
 
OP, if you do in fact have a "HUGE connection," then yes, use it! However, you obviously also need to be academically competent, in order to get through the course work in dental school. Using connections can be a great way to get your foot in the door, particularly if your "connection" knows you very well... which is a significant reason why so many dentist's kids get into dentistry!
 
CarpeDium said:
OP, if you do in fact have a "HUGE connection," then yes, use it! However, you obviously also need to be academically competent, in order to get through the course work in dental school. Using connections can be a great way to get your foot in the door, particularly if your "connection" knows you very well... which is a significant reason why so many dentist's kids get into dentistry!
Click to expand...

That may be a bit of an exaggeration if not outright wishful thinking. Sons and daughters of dentists get into dental school because they are more likely to have a pretty good idea of what they are getting themselves into and less likely to be disenchanted with the profession.
 
doc toothache said:
That may be a bit of an exaggeration if not outright wishful thinking. Sons and daughters of dentists get into dental school because they are more likely to have a pretty good idea of what they are getting themselves into and less likely to be disenchanted with the profession.
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^ This may be true doc, but it doesn't justify legacy kids taking spots from qualified applicants. As long as they have the numbers/proved themselves academically in undergrad, then I have no problem with their situation and agree with your "disenchanted" point.
 
doc toothache said:
That may be a bit of an exaggeration if not outright wishful thinking. Sons and daughters of dentists get into dental school because they are more likely to have a pretty good idea of what they are getting themselves into and less likely to be disenchanted with the profession.
Click to expand...

I think I agree with this. I also think that these sorts of people probably know best what it takes to get in (high GPA, good DAT, somewhat familiar with dentistry) and have that attitude from the get go in college.

Sure, people get in at dental schools because they know people occasionally, but mostly because of WHAT they know.

If I were you, I would raise the DAT and apply EARLY. Don't compete with 300 people for 10 spots, compete with 300 people for 90 spots. Your chances are guaranteed to be better if you apply early. Your DAT is probably holding you back with those stats. They have to be able to know that you will succeed- make sure they know you can with a good DAT, as you obviously have already been working on your GPA.

Good luck.
 
liriano said:
^ This may be true doc, but it doesn't justify legacy kids taking spots from qualified applicants. As long as they have the numbers/proved themselves academically in undergrad, then I have no problem with their situation and agree with your "disenchanted" point.
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First of all, I have absolutely NO connections with anyone in dental school or dentistry, or even healthcare for that matter. But what I do know is that sometimes in life it just comes down to who you know. I have come to accept that fact and the only way I made sure to not let it get the better of me was the work as hard as humanly possible to make sure that I got in. Don't blame anyone else for your failure (and I'm not directing this at you, just everyone in general), just do your best and nothing less. It's the only way to beat the system sometimes. Good luck!
 
I suggest you "use" this person asap before they die (god forbid)

There is nothing wrong with having the right connections with the right people at the right times. Use them if you can and get a head in this world
 
jay47 said:
First of all, I have absolutely NO connections with anyone in dental school or dentistry, or even healthcare for that matter. But what I do know is that sometimes in life it just comes down to who you know. I have come to accept that fact and the only way I made sure to not let it get the better of me was the work as hard as humanly possible to make sure that I got in. Don't blame anyone else for your failure (and I'm not directing this at you, just everyone in general), just do your best and nothing less. It's the only way to beat the system sometimes. Good luck!
Click to expand...

I take it from your comment that you are probably a legacy applicant, or benefitted from knowing a connection to get into school. More power to you whatever the case may be. Legacy admissions is life. My kid in twenty years (if he/she so chooses) will probably have a great chance to get into my alma mater (pending my perfomance in the next four years). I am just making the point that those kids who wouldn't have gotten in with subpar numbers potentially take the spots of those who ARE qualified. Again, thats life. But it also sucks.
 
liriano said:
I take it from your comment that you are probably a legacy applicant, or benefitted from knowing a connection to get into school. More power to you whatever the case may be. Legacy admissions is life. My kid in twenty years (if he/she so chooses) will probably have a great chance to get into my alma mater (pending my perfomance in the next four years). I am just making the point that those kids who wouldn't have gotten in with subpar numbers potentially take the spots of those who ARE qualified. Again, thats life. But it also sucks.
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I take if from your comment that you did not check his predents profile. I guess you don't think a 4.0 and 21 is good enough to get in on your own.
 
alec0884 said:
I take if from your comment that you did not check his predents profile. I guess you don't think a 4.0 and 21 is good enough to get in on your own.
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Whether or not it is or isn't wasn't the basis of my comment. It also states in his predents account that it took him two cycles to get in - meaning that the schools he applied to the first time didn't think a 4.0 and a 21 was good enough either at the time. Just stating my opinion.
 
doc toothache said:
That may be a bit of an exaggeration if not outright wishful thinking. Sons and daughters of dentists get into dental school because they are more likely to have a pretty good idea of what they are getting themselves into and less likely to be disenchanted with the profession.
Click to expand...

They also get into dental school because there are so many legacy applicants! Success breeds success. Literally and figuratively. When children see their parents be successful in a rewarding career, they wish to follow in their footsteps. This is why you see a large amount of legacy applicants at Ivy Leagues, Service Academies, and professional programs like Med/Dent.

Break....

Who cares how people got into dental schools? Their worthiness is up to the adcoms, not us. I just wouldn't go around saying "who" you know, or asking, "Do you know?" Bad form.
 
liriano said:
Whether or not it is or isn't wasn't the basis of my comment. It also states in his predents account that it took him two cycles to get in - meaning that the schools he applied to the first time didn't think a 4.0 and a 21 was good enough either at the time. Just stating my opinion.
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Well i find it an extremely peculiar statement to make considering that your stats are worse than his (I am not criticizing just saying).

His initial cycle also shows no rejections or status....it is likely that he submitted way late or never at all. I only commented since it would appear that his agreement with a posters assumption that legacy applicants may be more in tune with the requirements and expectations of dental school had caused you to conclude that he must be one, because you certainly can not make such a conclusion from his stats.

OP.....never close a door that is open to you....just don't expect it to get you all the way there
 
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alec0884 said:
Well i find it an extremely peculiar statement to make considering that your stats are worse than his (I am not criticizing just saying).

His initial cycle also shows no rejections or status....it is likely that he submitted way late or never at all. I only commented since it would appear that his agreement with a posters assumption that legacy applicants may be more in tune with the requirements and expectations of dental school, had caused you to conclude that he must be one, because you certainly can not make such a conclusion from his stats.

OP.....never close a door that is open to you....just don't expect it to get you all the way there
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^ Point taken. Its all about what you do when you get in, anyway.
 
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