Question about military active duty requirement

[redwings54]

Hi. So I was talking with my friend who is a MSII and on the Navy Health Professions Scholarship. She was telling me that your residency no longer counts as active duty. So from what I understand, you need to serve 4 years of active duty after your residency at a military hospital and then 4 more years of inactive duty. Is this accurate? So would it mean that you actually have to serve 12 years of duty for a HPSP shcolarship? Additionally, it is true that you are required to serve your residency at a military base as well? Thanks for some insight. I am just trying to find out some info before I set up meetings with recruiters. Thanks.

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[USAFdoc]

Hi. So I was talking with my friend who is a MSII and on the Navy Health Professions Scholarship. She was telling me that your residency no longer counts as active duty. So from what I understand, you need to serve 4 years of active duty after your residency at a military hospital and then 4 more years of inactive duty. Is this accurate? So would it mean that you actually have to serve 12 years of duty for a HPSP shcolarship? Additionally, it is true that you are required to serve your residency at a military base as well? Thanks for some insight. I am just trying to find out some info before I set up meetings with recruiters. Thanks.

that sounds about right. You might NOT have to do a MILITARY residency, but that is usually up to the military. In my case, there were about 100 family doc students for about 20 military slots, so most of us did civilian residencies.

Choose wisely IF you are considering a mil health career.

 

[RichL025]

Essentially correct -

Your residency DOES count as active duty (if you do a military residency), what it does not count as, however, is "payback" for the commitment that you accrue for accepting the scholarship.

So, a prototypical HPSP student who receives a scholarhsip for 4 years would then go on to do a residency, let's say for 3 years. At the end of those 3 years, this person must remain on active duty for 4 more years to pay off their commitment.

Then, they could get out of the military, at which point they have worn a uniform on active duty for seven years (3 residency, 4 as a board-certified whatever). However, ALL military commitments are for a total of 8 years, so this person would owe at least one more year in the "inactive reserves" - they don't have to cut their hair or show up on weekends, but in times of national emergency or war they have the possibility of getting called up for active service again (like now).

It gets a little tricky if you do a residency that's longer than your HPSP scholarship, though - your military commitment _after_ training is whichever is longer - ie, a HPSP student who owes 4 years of service for the scholarship decides to be a surgeon (6 years). WHen they finish their residency, they will owe SIX, not 4 years. It gets a little complicated explaining how that works, and with the Navy even more so because some people pay part of their commitment back during a GMO tour before residency, but hopefully this explains a little bit about the commitment.

(HPSP'ers out there, feel free to crrect me if I'm wrong - I'm USUHS, my wife is HPSP, so I may not have all the details spot on)

 

[edmadison]

(HPSP'ers out there, feel free to crrect me if I'm wrong - I'm USUHS, my wife is HPSP, so I may not have all the details spot on)

Almost, but not quite right.

So the best way to conceptualize this is to realize that you have multiple service obligations. HPSP incurs a service obligation equal to the number of years of the scholarship (scholarship obligation). Residency incurs a service obligation equal to the number of years of residency, NOT counting internship which neigher pays nor incurs and obligation (training obligation). You cannot pay off any active duty obligation while undergoing residency training -- I'm not sure about IRR. The important thing is that you can pay off both your scholarship and active duty obligation at the same time. Thus, if you did a four year HPSP scholarship, you'd have to do a six year residency in order to have your net obligation extended. This is usually straight forward and does not extend you total time in the military unless you do a GMO between internship and residency. In that case, you get screwed.

Ed

 

[Mirror Form]

You cannot pay off any active duty obligation while undergoing residency training -- I'm not sure about IRR.

Now we're sort of getting into semantics. Technically, you are paying off your active duty obligation during residency, but you're simultaneously accruing more time. That's why *most* people finish residency with the same active duty obligation as when they entered.

However, if you do a GMO tour first, then residency can greatly extend your original obligation.

 

[Mirror Form]

Then, they could get out of the military, at which point they have worn a uniform on active duty for seven years (3 residency, 4 as a board-certified whatever). However, ALL military commitments are for a total of 8 years, so this person would owe at least one more year in the "inactive reserves" - they don't have to cut their hair or show up on weekends, but in times of national emergency or war they have the possibility of getting called up for active service again (like now).

To the OP: The above is correct and I think we would have heard about it if things had changed so that residency didn't count toward your IRR (I imagine it would have been a big major deal). What is the source of your friend who said otherwise? Perhaps she was thinking about HPSP people who went on to do civilian residencies?

 

[threepeas]

Essentially correct -

Your residency DOES count as active duty (if you do a military residency), what it does not count as, however, is "payback" for the commitment that you accrue for accepting the scholarship.

So, a prototypical HPSP student who receives a scholarhsip for 4 years would then go on to do a residency, let's say for 3 years. At the end of those 3 years, this person must remain on active duty for 4 more years to pay off their commitment.

Then, they could get out of the military, at which point they have worn a uniform on active duty for seven years (3 residency, 4 as a board-certified whatever). However, ALL military commitments are for a total of 8 years, so this person would owe at least one more year in the "inactive reserves" - they don't have to cut their hair or show up on weekends, but in times of national emergency or war they have the possibility of getting called up for active service again (like now).

It gets a little tricky if you do a residency that's longer than your HPSP scholarship, though - your military commitment _after_ training is whichever is longer - ie, a HPSP student who owes 4 years of service for the scholarship decides to be a surgeon (6 years). WHen they finish their residency, they will owe SIX, not 4 years. It gets a little complicated explaining how that works, and with the Navy even more so because some people pay part of their commitment back during a GMO tour before residency, but hopefully this explains a little bit about the commitment.

(HPSP'ers out there, feel free to crrect me if I'm wrong - I'm USUHS, my wife is HPSP, so I may not have all the details spot on)

This is a good explanation. In addition if you do a fellowship that the military pays for either at a civilian or military location you owe 2 years AD for every 1 yr of the fellowship. During the fellowship though you get paid as an attending with all the bonuses, etc.

The only peeps who don't owe anything after AD payback are those who do a residency that lasts 4 or more years.

I dont know how much IR time you have to pay back after AD payback if you do a civilian residency though.

the concept of 8yr payback is usually not discussed with the recruiter and I dont know why. maybe its because most residencies are 4+ years and the IR time is not an issue.

 

[redwings54]

So I am just trying to make sure I understand this whole thing. Ones residency does not count as active duty but it does count towards the 4 years of inactive duty that one needs to pay back? I think I understand that. However, one still needs to pay back 4 years of active duty after you complete your residency. So does that mean you must serve on a military base for 4 more years after your residency to complete the active duty requirement? And is it true that you must serve your residency at a military base if you are on HPSP? I am really trying to look at the positives and negatives of the program and get as much info as I possibly can. Thanks everyone.

 

[SquidDoc]

Clear as mud???


It is actually rather complicated. If you take a 4 year scholarship, you have 4 years to pay back.

Technically, you could do your internship after graduating, then do 4 years worth of GMO and be done with active duty. This would complete your active duty payback, at which time you could leave active duty, enter the IRR for 4 years as a psuedo-civilian, and go through a civilian residency.

If you do your internship, then 2 years of GMO, your total payback is now 2 years. Say you then do a 3 year military residency. Upon completion of the residency, you owe 3 years of payback. So technically, doing a GMO tour, which 90% of us will probably have to do in the Navy, does not mean that we will have additional payback, but it does mean that we will be unable to take advantage of concurrently paying back medical school time-owed and residency time-owed to the Navy (as one going straight through from internship to residency would get).

Make sense?

I think that the Army and the Air Force currently allow most of the interns to go directly into residency, provided you match🙂 This kinda pisses me off, but if they do away with the mandatory GMO tours, we would have 300 residency bound GMO physicians getting screwed for that year. The GMO tour for the Navy will never go away.