Question About new AMCAS application section on parent's income/profession

[2011Applicant]

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Hi All,

Quick question: both of my parents are business owners and have good incomes ($500,000+). Consequently, on the new AMCAS primary application I will have to state both of their incomes and that they paid for 100% of my college tuition. There is also a section on the new AMCAS that asks if you came from a medically disadvantaged environment; obviously, I did not.

Will being the child of two successful entrepreneurs from a wealthy community work against me in the minds of some schools?

Throughout college I volunteered at a low-income clinic in Los Angeles (I am a NY resident) - which shows my interest in working with low-income groups. But I never thought that being wealthy would disadvantage me!

 

[patel2]

Hi All,

Quick question: both of my parents are business owners and have good incomes ($500,000+). Consequently, on the new AMCAS primary application I will have to state both of their incomes and that they paid for my 100% of my college tuition. There is also a section on the new AMCAS that asks if you came from a medically disadvantaged environment; obviously, I did not.

Will being the child of two successful entrepreneurs from a wealthy community work against me in the mind's of some schools?

Throughout college I volunteered at a low-income clinic in Los Angeles (I am a NY resident) - which shows my interest in working with low-income groups. But I never thought that being wealthy would disadvantage me!

No, you'll be fine. You know how many rich kids apply to medical school? You just won't get any of the special treatment of affirmative action.

 

[eli20]

Hi All,

Quick question: both of my parents are business owners and have good incomes ($500,000+). Consequently, on the new AMCAS primary application I will have to state both of their incomes and that they paid for my 100% of my college tuition. There is also a section on the new AMCAS that asks if you came from a medically disadvantaged environment; obviously, I did not.

Will being the child of two successful entrepreneurs from a wealthy community work against me in the mind's of some schools?

Throughout college I volunteered at a low-income clinic in Los Angeles (I am a NY resident) - which shows my interest in working with low-income groups. But I never thought that being wealthy would disadvantage me!

I guarantee it will be less of a disadvantage than the advantages you gained growing up in a mil+/year home. It will be an extremely minor part of your application. If you have the grades/mcat/ecs you'll be fine. Honestly you'll fit right in most likely, the vast majority of applicants in my experience have been economically advantaged.

 

[Monocles]

No, they mainly use it for financial aid and other factors. If your family is poor then it helps you, but if your family is well off then it doesn't work against you.

 

[vickpick]

damn, I'm jealous..

 

[Ignatius M.D.]

Only a very small portion of applicants are from economically disadvantaged homes. Most are from upper-middle class families. It's always been this way. Your background won't hurt you. It might if you come across as not appreciating/understanding the advantages of your background though.

 

[Syqers]

I would imagine this new section is just going to be used for financial aid information for schools. In reality, it behooves schools to accept students that can pay their own way. There is no financial concern keeping your from accepting an offered position, and they don't have to do the hassle of helping you with loans/scholarships/financial aid.

 

[eli20]

I would imagine this new section is just going to be used for financial aid information for schools. In reality, it behooves schools to accept students that can pay their own way. There is no financial concern keeping your from accepting an offered position, and they don't have to do the hassle of helping you with loans/scholarships/financial aid.

I think it's inappropriate for schools to have an idea of finances before accepting for this very reason.

 

[Hoody]

In reality, it behooves schools to accept students that can pay their own way. There is no financial concern keeping your from accepting an offered position, and they don't have to do the hassle of helping you with loans/scholarships/financial aid.

This is true. A few years ago someone affiliated with the admissions committee of a prestigious school in New York told my father that above all else, they are most interested in students who can pay.

 

[eli20]

This is true. A few years ago someone affiliated with the admissions committee of a prestigious school in New York told my father that above all else, they are most interested in students who can pay.

This is disgusting.

 

[Syqers]

I think it is ridiculous for AMCAS to ask us to estimate our family's yearly income from when I was born to age 18. In this day and age, people are divorced, have step-parents, or have extremely complicated family lives. Not to mention that living situations could have changed drastically in the past 18 years.

I don't even know what my parents made 26 years ago, and I'm betting they don't either. My mom/dad was never one to brag about salary, but I do know it fluctuated wildly. Glad to know that this estimate will tell them nothing about me.

 

[phltz]

This is disgusting.

I mean, it is, but what do you want them to do? Some schools have a big endowment or tons of donors, and can afford to be more fair about it. But for a school with little money, what are their other options?

 

[Syqers]

I mean, it is, but what do you want them to do? Some schools have a big endowment or tons of donors, and can afford to be more fair about it. But for a school with little money, what are their other options?

Well, they could accept on merit and let the student worry about payment. After all, the medical school almost always gets paid (unless they offer loans themselves). The alternative is to not offer loans to students. Then, they will always get paid and the burden is placed back on the student. With the number of applicants to medical school, there will never be a shortage of applicants who can find money to pay.

 

[eli20]

I mean, it is, but what do you want them to do? Some schools have a big endowment or tons of donors, and can afford to be more fair about it. But for a school with little money, what are their other options?

The vast majority of medical students finance their education with loans. It isn't difficult to obtain loans as a medical student. There should be absolutely no preference given to advantaged applicants because of ability to pay.

 

[Hoody]

I mean, it is, but what do you want them to do? Some schools have a big endowment or tons of donors, and can afford to be more fair about it. But for a school with little money, what are their other options?

I guess I just don't understand where $50K/year tuition is going....I mean what exactly is so expensive about our training?

 

[phltz]

The vast majority of medical students finance their education with loans. It isn't difficult to obtain loans as a medical student. There should be absolutely no preference given to advantaged applicants because of ability to pay.

So I guess someone who can get loans does have an ability to pay.

There are a variety of reasons one might have trouble getting loans. International students won't be able to make use of any US government loan programs, for example. A med school might take one or two brilliant students from the third world, for example, who essentially won't have an ability to pay. But unless there's a particularly large pot of money set aside for scholarships and the like, it'll be hard for a school to take on many of these students, no matter how talented and awesome they may be.

 

[MayoorBust]

This is true. A few years ago someone affiliated with the admissions committee of a prestigious school in New York told my father that above all else, they are most interested in students who can pay.

I know for a fact that this school is not Columbia P&S. Sounds like an island school... "above all else, they are more interested in students who can pay..."

 

[muhali3]

This is true. A few years ago someone affiliated with the admissions committee of a prestigious school in New York told my father that above all else, they are most interested in students who can pay.

hmm...NYU, Columbia, or Mt. Sinai? I'm going with NYU.

 

[Hoody]

I guess I just don't understand where $50K/year tuition is going....I mean what exactly is so expensive about our training?

can anyone answer this question?

one of my professor's once remarked that it costs the schools even more to train us then we pay in tuition....in other words, training doctors is a money losing venture for most (all?) schools. Can this be true? Where does all that money go?

 

[Syqers]

can anyone answer this question?

one of my professor's once remarked that it costs the schools even more to train us then we pay in tuition....in other words, training doctors is a money losing venture for most (all?) schools. Can this be true? Where does all that money go?

Faculty, facilities, administration, libraries, labs, teaching technology, simulation centers, insurance, advertising, recruitment - it all adds up.

When you consider that you have 800 students paying 50,000 per year, that's only $40 million dollars. I realize that seems like a lot to you, but for an industry that employed several thousand people that is pocket change.

 

[Hoody]

Faculty, facilities, administration, libraries, labs, teaching technology, simulation centers, insurance, advertising, recruitment - it all adds up.

When you consider that you have 800 students paying 50,000 per year, that's only $40 million dollars. I realize that seems like a lot to you, but for an industry that employed several thousand people that is pocket change.

these things never are never paid off? I know several schools off the top of my head that do not have new facilities, sim labs, etc. I can even think of a few schools that do not have specific med school libraries.

So yeah, there has to be something else...

 

[Syqers]

these things never are never paid off? I know several schools off the top of my head that do not have new facilities, sim labs, etc. I can even think of a few schools that do not have specific med school libraries.

So yeah, there has to be something else...

It doesn't need to be new to add up. Saving up for the remodel of several floors of a medical school building can cost $20 to $30 million dollars. Seeing as you have maintenence costs of running the school which easily run into the millions of dollars per year, you have to save up to be able to renovate.

Eventually, the school will renovate/upgrade something outdated and be low on funds again. I tell you, $40 million dollars is such a low amount. Building a 5-story scholarly building costs around $50 million dollars. I know because my undergraduate institute did it. $40 million dollars a year to support 2,000 faculty, 800 students and several buildings is so low.

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, medical schools are very expensive... every accredited school is going to have a library (whether it is labeled "medical library" or is folded into some larger library system) and the cost of site licenses and subscriptions and the like is enormous. For example, awhile back the California university system reported paying an average cost of between $3,000 and $7,000 per journal, depending on the publication and the field. They reported (complained) that the current average cost for the Nature group's journals is $4,465; under the 2011 pricing scheme, that was expected to rise to more than $17,000 per journal. Labor including salaries and benefits (including health insurance) is also a major expense for universities.

As for the questions about parents. This had been asked only of those folks who self identified as "disadvantaged". Some applicants were shy about checking that box so now it is being asked of everyone. I doubt that this will be used for financial aid, I think you'll still need the federal aid forms submitted to the financial aid office.

This may be used to identify applicants who as students may be in need of additional services. There is some evidence that students from lower SES families are at greater risk of dropping out than students from higher SES families. https://www.aamc.org/download/165418/data/aibvol9_no11.pdf.pdf

Some adcoms will give a leg up to those who have had a greater "distance traveled" to medical school but like URM status, this is because these students are so rare and contribute to the diversity of the class and the pool of future physicians.

No doubt the 2012 instructions will have more information on how to complete this section of the application.

Because it is new, I have no idea how my adcom will handle it... in fact, I've added that to the agenda the next time we sit down to talk about the next admission cycle. 😀