Question about ophto job market

[ayers84]

New member here, I am an M3 student really interested in ophto ever since I did some shadowing with the ophthalmologist back in undergrad. Assuming my clinical grades are good I am really looking to apply for an optho residency. However, here is a question that I am sure is looked down upon:

How is the ophto job market?

I was going to ask some of the Ophthalmologists I shadowed but I was worried that I might be more concerned with job security than passion for the field.

I saw some articles such as this one by Dr. Doan and I wanted to know is it possible to find jobs in Las Vegas, Denver, Philadelphia, DC, Phoenix, Seattle, etc.

http://www.medrounds.org/ophthalmology-pearls/2008/07/question-from-reader-is-southern.html

I am pretty aware that LA/NYC/San Francisco are saturated regardless of any medical specialty but I really would like to work in a city.

Do a good number of ophthalmologists work an outside of the cities like Dr. Doan mentioned in the above link? My wife has a job that requires her to be within a metro area so I am trying to avoid the really rural areas.

Any comments would be appreciated

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[Dusn]

The job market in all those places sucks.

But the job market for just about every competitive speciality (except maybe derm) seems to be pretty poor right now: Radiology is worse than ophtho. Cardiology seems to be saturated.. If both you and your wife are restricted to working in certain locations it will be much harder. It will also be tough to juggle residency and fellowship locations; and if you want to get a job in one of those locations you'll probably need a fellowship.

If you want to get a job anywhere be an internist. But even they will have to take a pay cut to live in one of the cities you mentioned.

 

[ayers84]

Thank you for the reply. What about an hour or hour and half outside of metropolitan areas, are there more jobs there?

I understand that alot of ophthalmologists start out low like 100k in saturated cities but do they make around 200k-250k are a couple of years or is not possible. I dont mind taking a paycut to have location nearby and doing what I like.

 

[Dusn]

Thank you for the reply. What about an hour or hour and half outside of metropolitan areas, are there more jobs there?

I understand that alot of ophthalmologists start out low like 100k in saturated cities but do they make around 200k-250k are a couple of years or is not possible. I dont mind taking a paycut to have location nearby and doing what I like.

Sure. An hour and a half, without traffic, outside most cities is getting to farmland, and yes, that area would be much less saturated. Well-off suburbs with good schools (like Westchester county, outside NYC, as an example) would still be saturated. If you're looking at a single particular town or location it still may be difficulty to find a group that wants to hire and that you would work well with because paradoxically, the fact that it's less saturated means that there are fewer groups to join. You can start your own practice but that's difficult and the start up costs in ophtho are high.

That being said, if you're willing to work an hour and a half outside a number of cities, you should be able to find a decent job and be successful.

You can also start out low in a city and work up, which may be ok if you don't have kids and student loans to pay for. Practice owners in more highly saturated areas will value you less, however, because they know that they can easily find someone to replace you. It would not be my ideal situation.

 

[ophthope]

If you want to get a job anywhere be an internist.

 

[LightBox]

I don't think the job market in the big metro areas is that dire. Sure, there are going to be a lot more applicants per job-opening in more "desirable" places, but the jobs do exist.

And yes, there are quite a few practitioners making 7-digit salaries in those areas as well. So if making a fortune is your cup of tea, it can definitely be done in metro areas, especially given that patients in those areas typically have more discretionary income to spend (e.g. premium lenses, lasik, etc). I'm not saying it is a cakewalk, but with some business acumen and hard work, it is definitely achievable.

If you are the type of person who only looks at the negative side of things, you will likely become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Most successful entrepreneurs I know truly believe in themselves and are willing to accept the risk of their ventures.

Lastly, please use "ophtho", not "ophto" 🙂

 

[ayers84]

I don't think the job market in the big metro areas is that dire. Sure, there are going to be a lot more applicants per job-opening in more "desirable" places, but the jobs do exist.

And yes, there are quite a few practitioners making 7-digit salaries in those areas as well. So if making a fortune is your cup of tea, it can definitely be done in metro areas, especially given that patients in those areas typically have more discretionary income to spend (e.g. premium lenses, lasik, etc). I'm not saying it is a cakewalk, but with some business acumen and hard work, it is definitely achievable.

If you are the type of person who only looks at the negative side of things, you will likely become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Most successful entrepreneurs I know truly believe in themselves and are willing to accept the risk of their ventures.

Lastly, please use "ophtho", not "ophto" 🙂

thanks for the advice, do you think the ophtho job market is really tough in places not named LA/San Fran/Boston/NYC? granted SDN does have a more doom and gloom when it comes to jobs in all health care careers but it would be nice to get a heads up on the career route of ophtho.

I am not looking to buy a maserati but im not looking at working in a one-streetlight town either. I am pretty conservative with spending (or maybe bc my last job was as a busboy haha)

I too noticed the title that I spelled ophtho wrong, my apologies. too bad I can't change the title, I wonder if that is why fewer ppl are responding to the thread.

 

[LightBox]

thanks for the advice, do you think the ophtho job market is really tough in places not named LA/San Fran/Boston/NYC? granted SDN does have a more doom and gloom when it comes to jobs in all health care careers but it would be nice to get a heads up on the career route of ophtho.

I am not looking to buy a maserati but im not looking at working in a one-streetlight town either. I am pretty conservative with spending (or maybe bc my last job was as a busboy haha)

I too noticed the title that I spelled ophtho wrong, my apologies. too bad I can't change the title, I wonder if that is why fewer ppl are responding to the thread.

At this early stage in your career, I wouldn't worry so much about the Ophtho job market. Things change so much, so it is hard to predict what the market will be like when your training is done. I am 45 minutes from a major metropolitan city and am very happy with my job situation, in terms of surgical volume, compensation, and taking care of patients. Yes, I have friends/colleagues that are having trouble finding jobs in places like LA and NYC. Others are "underemployed" meaning that they have a part-time gig in those places. The difference can be staggering as some colleagues are probably making one-fourth to one-fifth of what I currently take in, while paying for a higher cost of living. But that is the compromise you accept if you want to live in those places.

 

[MullerCell]

The idea of trying to characterize a global job market is kind of impossible. Sure there are areas that are more saturated than others, but I would argue that much more important than this hypothetical job market, are the characteristics of the physician. If you are friendly, professional, hard working, well trained, take good care of patients, and work to build your practice, you will likely do well. It may take longer in certain markets. Very few residents understand the importance of being very congenial with referring optometrists by visiting, taking to dinner, providing lectures, ect. Many ophthalmologists are not readily accessible, are not aggressive in obtaining new referral sources, and don't have the best bedside manner/personality. You can't just assume that if you train at a top program and do really well on OKAPS/boards that you will show up and be successful. In the real world no one cares and it takes a lot of hard work to build a practice. Unfortunately, no matter how good you are as a physician, the patients and referring doctors perception of you is much more important than the reality of your skill as a physician/surgeon.