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Question about race
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but thats the thing.. egypt is not in asia its in africa....i mean do you have to be black to be african??
That would make me Asian since Iraq is in Asia haha.
I think they are talking about your skin color specifically, and unless you are black you are expected to put down Caucasian I think.
I think they are talking about your skin color specifically, and unless you are black you are expected to put down Caucasian I think.
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Someone got into my undergrad as an "African-American", she is white and was born and raised in South Africa.. She came to minority orientation and everyone was like uh.. what are you doing here? You can beat the system, but when you show up for the interview it might reflect poorly on you that you did so. Did you actually live in Egypt (in Africa) at some point? Do you personally believe that it would be okay for you to consider yourself an "African-American" on your application?
I think legitimately you can put African American...and when they ask you just speak of how proud you are from being an American from Africa and delve into it...good conversation if you can support yourself well.
lol omg that is a good question, never thought about that😱
If i were you, i would call the school and ask them. Then you put down w/e they tell you and in the interview if they ask you why you put down that, u tell them they told u to. u cant go wrong 😀😀😀 😎
If i were you, i would call the school and ask them. Then you put down w/e they tell you and in the interview if they ask you why you put down that, u tell them they told u to. u cant go wrong 😀😀😀 😎
Reminds me of the time I filled out some form in high school as being a Native American even though I'm white/caucasian. My point was that I was born here, I believe that makes me native.😀
They really should change these ******ed ethnicity labels. They all can be ambiguous.
They are trying to find out your skin color, not where you were born.
- American Indian or Alaskan Native: what if I was born in India and moved to America?
- Asian/Pacific Islander/East Asian: There are middle eastern countries, as well as Russia, who are in Asia.
- Black or African-American: What about people born in South Africa? Most are white but they were born in Africa...
- White, non-Hispanic: What if I'm Michael Jackson
- Hispanic/Latino: Again, what if you are not the race but you were born there?
- Other
- Do not wish to report
They are trying to find out your skin color, not where you were born.
American Indian / Alaskan Native refers to the Indigenous/Aboriginal Peoples of this continent. Noone who knows his right foot from his left foot would confuse these labels with people from the Indian sub-continent (which is located in India if you are still not following).
But I agree that they need to abandon these very not politically correct ethnic classifications. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to do this - and this is most likely reflects something good in terms of what direction society is going.
Russell Peters' famous joke that everyone will someday be some shade of light brown is so trend-setting.
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So Barrack Obama would put Black? Even though he's almost the whitest person in recent media?
Very American of you.
Because that's what the Dental Profession needs: followers, not leaders; people who shift responsibility, not professionals who accept responsibility; and people who are submissive to orders, not creative thinkers.
I'd make an arguement and stick to my guns. But be honest to yourself - or the decision will follow you forever. To think 2 or 20 years down the road that the only reason why you are in the Dental Profession is because you identified with a race/ethnic class that doesn't represent you is not only demeaning to yourself but devalues any work you put in to get you where you are today.
Omg, I totally kinda did the same thing for my UMDNJ Gateway to Dentisty application. They said that race/ethnicity does not matter in getting accepted to the program, so I wrote down that I was "European-American". Even though I am a fourth generation American, and have no ties to Europe, my ancestors are technically from Europe. If black people who have no ties to Africa can be considered African-American, I can be considered European-American 😀
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ouch. how'd you like that on your conscience?
Idk what all this fuss is about race. I understand everyones point, but in this modern globalized society, race shoudn't even matter on/or decision for a dental school application......period.
I totally agree, it should be all about merit!
I'm willing to bet both you and DR HOYA are not a minority. And this is exactly where the problem is.
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Oh my...I have thought this forever my fellow Egyptian!
What does it matter what my race is? Or better yet, how is that a problem if I am not a minority? There is a difference between underdeserved and underrepresented. Why should race be a deciding factor in dental admissions? More over, candidates individuality/story should factor in more than race.
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B
Brownstain
totally knew a jewish guy in undergrad who was on an african american scholarship because his parents were from egypt. he often talked about how he got some great looks at the scholarship banquets, meetings, etc.
I would try to be a honest as possible on my application.
If they think you are a black person based on your answer they might feel that you misrepresented yourself when you show up to your interview.
If they think you are a black person based on your answer they might feel that you misrepresented yourself when you show up to your interview.
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This is why I decided to put "other" even though I'm from Egypt, its the best choice I think.
but that's exactly his problem. He doesn't know what is the 'honest answer'. You make it sound so cut and dry, but in actuality it isn't.
And no, these days you cannot tell based on the colour of someone's skin.
In my opinion, you missed my point...
I meant to say in my first paragraph that it is a very good question (that is, the original poster's question). They can easily find out the answer by calling the school and seeing what the school thinks. My ethical point of view is being honest with the school and asking what them their opinion. I always try to do things correctly. It has nothing to do with me being a "follower". I'm a leader and I like to be ethical and ALWAYS try my best to do everything correctly. Hence, if I don't know the answer to a question, there is nothing wrong with asking the right people. 😎 That was my point of view, I was trying to be light and funny w/ the emoticons but I think you misunderstood me...
I meant to say in my first paragraph that it is a very good question (that is, the original poster's question). They can easily find out the answer by calling the school and seeing what the school thinks. My ethical point of view is being honest with the school and asking what them their opinion. I always try to do things correctly. It has nothing to do with me being a "follower". I'm a leader and I like to be ethical and ALWAYS try my best to do everything correctly. Hence, if I don't know the answer to a question, there is nothing wrong with asking the right people. 😎 That was my point of view, I was trying to be light and funny w/ the emoticons but I think you misunderstood me...
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what if i'm 1/2 iraqi, 1/4 egyptian and 1/4 jordanian.
born in jordan
raised in england
grew up in the states
i classify myself as other?
born in jordan
raised in england
grew up in the states
i classify myself as other?
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Hell yeh it should count. Egypt is straight up in Africa so I don't see why you wouldn't be considered African.
oh geez...
who the hell cares!?!?!
sounds like everyone (who has a "right" that is) is trying to pull some sort of race/ethnic card to increase their chance at admissions...
sorry...i'm tired of reading all of this...
you are who you are...if you're applying to a private school, chances are it makes no difference and it DOES come down to merit.
good luck to all you guys/gals that are trying to pull some sort of race/ethnic card. no i am by no means racists, i just find debates like these rather humorous...no one ever wins! 🙁 someone is going to get pissed and....that's the end of it....
who the hell cares!?!?!
sounds like everyone (who has a "right" that is) is trying to pull some sort of race/ethnic card to increase their chance at admissions...
sorry...i'm tired of reading all of this...
you are who you are...if you're applying to a private school, chances are it makes no difference and it DOES come down to merit.
good luck to all you guys/gals that are trying to pull some sort of race/ethnic card. no i am by no means racists, i just find debates like these rather humorous...no one ever wins! 🙁 someone is going to get pissed and....that's the end of it....
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also, since this issue has been raised, let's delve into this further.
what about Italians? the Moors, Africans, came over and conquered Italy, changing the racial make-up of the entire country. Could Italians living in America be considered "African-American" since one could argue that their roots lie in Africa?
or what about people in general? many scientists and anthropologists believe that the Cradle of Life was in Africa, and that is where humans evolved in the species we are today. So, for us Americans, aren't we all "African-American"?
what about Italians? the Moors, Africans, came over and conquered Italy, changing the racial make-up of the entire country. Could Italians living in America be considered "African-American" since one could argue that their roots lie in Africa?
or what about people in general? many scientists and anthropologists believe that the Cradle of Life was in Africa, and that is where humans evolved in the species we are today. So, for us Americans, aren't we all "African-American"?
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This is a simple question with a simple answer. They are obviously referring to where your ancestors (somewhat recent) are from. I am Indian although I was born in England and spent half my life in America. I would put down Asian. White people from America or Europe would put down Caucasian. Even South Africans who are white are Caucasian because their recent ancestors are Dutch and British. African Americans are strictly black. I definitely would not put that if I were Egyptian (unless they're black). I think Egyptians are generally Muslims who came from Middle East, thus they would probably put Asian. Half mixed people would put other.
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Many Egyptians may be Muslim, but most Muslims from the Middle East are considered Caucasian, not Asian. There is not a separate category for people from the Middle East, therefore, Caucasian.
Hell, you (an Indian) are genetically Caucasian, however you are grouped with East Asians, mainly because Indian people are geographically from Asia and because they fit the same mold of "Model Minority" and "Over-Representation" that East Asians fit into...
Also, many Hispanic people are Caucasian, therefore there is a distiction, "White, Non-Hispanic". There is no such distinction for Muslim people from the Middle East, though this may change in the future as their presense and influence in America becomes larger.
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I agree that Hispanics are Caucasian. I do not agree that Indians are Middle Easterners are Caucasian (even genetically). Caucasian refers to white skin/people. Whether there were brown people in India for thousands of years or whether Aryans came and mixed with those brown people is unknown...but even then we would not be considered Caucasian. Asian is a very broad term and it should be split up into separate groups. But for now, it is usually fairly obvious who falls into this category. Middle East is geographically in Asia and typically made up of brown-skinned people.
Although all of this is actually quite complex and can be debated greatly, I meant it is simple earlier in the sense that common sense can be used to figure out which group one should put themselves in...even though that group can be argued.
Regardless the whole system is messed up. I don't even know if I'm a minority because while there aren't many Indians in US relative to whites, there is a high number of Indians in health field. So am I a minority?
Although all of this is actually quite complex and can be debated greatly, I meant it is simple earlier in the sense that common sense can be used to figure out which group one should put themselves in...even though that group can be argued.
Regardless the whole system is messed up. I don't even know if I'm a minority because while there aren't many Indians in US relative to whites, there is a high number of Indians in health field. So am I a minority?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_American
White American (often used interchangeably with "Caucasian American" and within the United States simply "white") is an umbrella term officially employed by the United States Census Bureau, Office of Management and Budget and other U.S. government for the classification of American citizens or resident aliens "having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe,the Middle East, or North Africa"
White American (often used interchangeably with "Caucasian American" and within the United States simply "white") is an umbrella term officially employed by the United States Census Bureau, Office of Management and Budget and other U.S. government for the classification of American citizens or resident aliens "having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe,the Middle East, or North Africa"
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I put 'other' for my app. im a jewish egyptian, but i am white skinned.
Quite the contrary, race is not a deciding factor. It is one of many, and I think this is good.
It matters what your race is because you should realize your bias when talking about the race card if you are white. You stated that you think it should be "all about merit" - but first reflect on where you are coming from. The value system of a white person is very different from that of a minority and coming to terms with this is one step in understanding this issue. I am assuming that you are coming from a background where nothing held you back from reaping the benefits of your hard work. For others, eg some minorities, this is not the case. There are cultural barriers, racism, and discrimination rampant throughout our communities. Merit doesn't always take you where you deserve if you are being faced against these obstacles. I'm sort of on the fence when it comes to affirmative action - and I agree with you: I think that if you can talk about struggles you've faced in your life, you have gained some valuable skills that others have not. And thus your personal statement and character strength should compensate for any low grades or whatnot. I hope this is where Dental Admissions is going in the future.
This is getting into semantics. I feel you have devalued the usefulness of discussion and the real issues at hand. Noone wants to argue on technicalities.
Yes, and this is a great reason why we shouldn't debate - to prevent someone from getting angry.
The reality is, same could have been said about the evolution vs creation debate back in Darwin's days. But there has since been a clear winner or compromise. Such a resolution did not come about by avoiding the topics at hand. If you go around afraid of confrontation, making people "pissed" and laughing at people who argue, you will learn nothing from life.
you guys are being ridiculous. The question is about under represented minorities.
An Egyptian is not a URM, so do not select african american. The choice "african american" is to indentify a URM. The question is proxy for whether or not you may have experienced hardship or discrimination.
You CAN select afican american, just as someone from south africa can select it, however deep down you know you are stretching the truth for personal gain.
If you DID NOT think selecting "african american" would enhance your application then this question would not even be asked.
Really it comes down to the fact that you KNOW you will receive a benefit by checking "african american" and you want us to tell you its ok.
In the end you'll have to make your own choice, and live with it. Just know that when you show up for the interview you may be there under false pretense.
You probably should just select other and try to get in by your merit.
An Egyptian is not a URM, so do not select african american. The choice "african american" is to indentify a URM. The question is proxy for whether or not you may have experienced hardship or discrimination.
You CAN select afican american, just as someone from south africa can select it, however deep down you know you are stretching the truth for personal gain.
If you DID NOT think selecting "african american" would enhance your application then this question would not even be asked.
Really it comes down to the fact that you KNOW you will receive a benefit by checking "african american" and you want us to tell you its ok.
In the end you'll have to make your own choice, and live with it. Just know that when you show up for the interview you may be there under false pretense.
You probably should just select other and try to get in by your merit.
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This is exactly what i'm talking about. Anyone can have struggles....white or minority. Don't assume all whites lead a silver-spoon life. I certainly have not, and I have friends that are "minorities" that have. Anyway, to go back to the OP facing a decision on what to choose on their application. I mean, the ADEA could put every single race/subculture down, but in the end it IS NOT or SHOULD NOT be a deciding factor. Like you said, the PS, character strenghts, as well as good merit will carry you further in the process, and hopefully in. I agree with you as well, and hope that Dental Admissions goes this way in the future. People are individuals with their own personal life stories, not numbers or just a race alone.
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Im Egyptian and Nubian (egyptian with dark brown skin and multiracial features)
I do NOT look causcasion, did not have a "white experience" in america and therefore put African American as I come from an African American neighborhood and grewup with an african american experience.
I dont think its fair for the US census to characterize Egyptians as being solely caucasion because it discriminates against Nubian (black) Egyptians.
The race question has to do with your experiences and background in order to produce more dentists to SERVE UNDERSERVED communities.
I do NOT look causcasion, did not have a "white experience" in america and therefore put African American as I come from an African American neighborhood and grewup with an african american experience.
I dont think its fair for the US census to characterize Egyptians as being solely caucasion because it discriminates against Nubian (black) Egyptians.
The race question has to do with your experiences and background in order to produce more dentists to SERVE UNDERSERVED communities.
Fair enough. But reality has it that there is a much higher proportion of minorities who are facing poverty and discrimination than non-minorities. It also comes down to wanting diversity amongst the top professionals of tomorrow so that the kids of the next generation have atleast the illusion that they can do anything they want to do.
If that means taking an individual belonging to an underrepresented minority that suffered over an individual of an overrepresented majority who suffered equally - then so be it. And I agree with doing this.
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I agree that Affirmative Action should be based on socio-economic status rather than race, but the reality is that race is the factor that is looked at, and that is unlikely to change.
As far as race goes, the census should indicate "Black-American" rather than "African-American", as this would be more clear as far as what to put down, since it is really asking for race and not nationality. However, "Black" is less politically-correct than "African-American", so it just adds to the confusion.
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dude,
it was just a question. relax. and just for the record I put others.
it was just a question. relax. and just for the record I put others.
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dude, chill. It was just a question because if you think of it, Egypt is in Africa. And if I am American I feel I can justly put African American. It was an opinion, and I do not need SDN to tell me it's ok. Just wanted to hear what others thought.
And just for the record, I put other.
So why did you put "other"?
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this just shows how dumb the concept of "race" is to try to lump people together regardless of culture or ethnic background. good for you for putting down "other" because it shouldn't matter anyway. It shouldnt even be on the form to be honest because it marginalizes those who arent represented by one of the categories provided. i don't consider myself african-american. i'm nigerian but there is no african bubble to fill in but i'm black therefore expected to identify myself as african-american. ******ed.
the girl from south africa did not "get around the system". she read the form and filled it in according to her situation - an african living in america.
so people should really re-think the need to report this kind of information on forms. they dont care where any of us are from. they just want to know how dark or light our complexion is so they can attach a bunch of statistics to us. it's a problem. everyone should start filling in "other".
sigh
the girl from south africa did not "get around the system". she read the form and filled it in according to her situation - an african living in america.
so people should really re-think the need to report this kind of information on forms. they dont care where any of us are from. they just want to know how dark or light our complexion is so they can attach a bunch of statistics to us. it's a problem. everyone should start filling in "other".
sigh
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I have nothing to do with dentistry. However, I find this thread interesting. aowm88 I agree with you 100%.
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My friend was having this problem. Her biological father is black. Her mom is white. And she and her sister are both fair skinned, blond girls, but with black ...curves. Genetics is a little strange sometimes. She doesnt know whether she'd put african american or caucasian in her applications. Cuz if she puts african america, the interviewers are definitely going to question her race. We told her to just bring her birth certificate and other paperwork.
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