Question about research pre-med and med student

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My understanding is to get into most(?) specialties you need research experience? However, I think in medical school it would be difficult doing research and handling the course load etc.. simultaneously, so is most research done during undergrad. If so, should one further delay their medical school application to get more research done in undergrad? Or, do most just do research during medical school?

Thank You
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If one is a good at time mgt, one can do bench research in med school. You can also do research electives.

A faster path to publishing will be clinical research and/or case reports.

My take on this subject, which has been broached before, is that UG research can be helpful in what you need for residency, by and large it's research in med school that has more weight.

Wise @mimelim? Thoughts?
 
Goro said:
If one is a good at time mgt, one can do bench research in med school. You can also do research electives.

A faster path to publishing will be clinical research and/or case reports.

My take on this subject, which has been broached before, is that UG research can be helpful in what you need for residency, by and large it's research in med school that has more weight.

Wise @mimelim? Thoughts?
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Case reports? How do you mean?
 
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You have many research opportunities in med school that are not necessarily during the year. The summer after your first year is a common time when students undertake research. It's possible to get clinical projects done in that time frame - or at least most of the project. Basic science projects take much longer. Then many schools also now condense their pre-clinical curriculum into 1-1.5 years, allowing you to do core clerkships earlier. So you get some extra free time after that to pursue research interests. Some students now also take research years to pursue projects to become more competitive for residencies.
 
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aldol16 said:
You have many research opportunities in med school that are not necessarily during the year. The summer after your first year is a common time when students undertake research. It's possible to get clinical projects done in that time frame - or at least most of the project. Basic science projects take much longer. Then many schools also now condense their pre-clinical curriculum into 1-1.5 years, allowing you to do core clerkships earlier. So you get some extra free time after that to pursue research interests. Some students now also take research years to pursue projects to become more competitive for residencies.
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Research years? what does that mean? Take a couple years off after medical school?
 
BioTic said:
Research years? what does that mean? Take a couple years off after medical school?
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Some students take a year off after their clinical clerkships to pursue research. In a traditional curriculum, that's usually after year 3 and before year 4 chronologically speaking. Now with condensed curricula, I can only say that it's common to do after the core clerkships, whenever those are at your school.
 
aldol16 said:
Some students take a year off after their clinical clerkships to pursue research. In a traditional curriculum, that's usually after year 3 and before year 4 chronologically speaking. Now with condensed curricula, I can only say that it's common to do after the core clerkships, whenever those are at your school.
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I didn't know their was an option to take a year off between 3 & 4.
 
BioTic said:
I didn't know their was an option to take a year off between 3 & 4.
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There are many opportunities to personalize your med school experience.
 
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BioTic said:
My understanding is to get into most(?) specialties you need research experience?
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From what I understand this isn't necessarily true. It definitely helps, and it's basically required for more competitive specialties, but you don't need research for plenty of specialties.

Most people who do research do it during medical school. There's plenty of time the summer after M1, during 4th year and, and you can choose to take a research year between M2 and M3.
 
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BioTic said:
My understanding is to get into most(?) specialties you need research experience? However, I think in medical school it would be difficult doing research and handling the course load etc.. simultaneously, so is most research done during undergrad. If so, should one further delay their medical school application to get more research done in undergrad? Or, do most just do research during medical school?

Thank You
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#1 Most medical students do not publish.
#2 Many medical students will dabble in one or several projects while in medical school.
#3 The most common publication that we see are case reports, followed by retrospective reviews.
#4 All programs see research as a plus. However, it is not of particular importance for the majority.
#5 While not strictly true, in general, the more competitive a program is or a specialty is, the more important research becomes.
#6 Research done prior to entrance to medical school is heavily discounted in weight. For many specialties, research is not just about learning how to perform research, but it is also an avenue to demonstrate interest in a particular field. In the surgical specialties, attrition is a real issue. Interest matters. Thus, for highly competitive residencies, it is typical for applicants to do research in that field during medical school.


As an aside, you seem to be struggling with written English in this thread. I would note that that will be a far bigger issue than research or no research.
 
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mimelim said:
#6 Research done prior to entrance to medical school is heavily discounted in weight. For many specialties, research is not just about learning how to perform research, but it is also an avenue to demonstrate interest in a particular field. In the surgical specialties, attrition is a real issue. Interest matters. Thus, for highly competitive residencies, it is typical for applicants to do research in that field during medical school.
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Wouldn't that cut both way? If one does research in that particular field prior to matriculation, will that not add weight to interest and commitment? Wouldn't research on surgical techniques and respective outcomes (Bench) and post op care (clinical) count? Someone told me that even medical students had trouble finding those.
 
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mimelim said:
#1 Most medical students do not publish.
#2 Many medical students will dabble in one or several projects while in medical school.
#3 The most common publication that we see are case reports, followed by retrospective reviews.
#4 All programs see research as a plus. However, it is not of particular importance for the majority.
#5 While not strictly true, in general, the more competitive a program is or a specialty is, the more important research becomes.
#6 Research done prior to entrance to medical school is heavily discounted in weight. For many specialties, research is not just about learning how to perform research, but it is also an avenue to demonstrate interest in a particular field. In the surgical specialties, attrition is a real issue. Interest matters. Thus, for highly competitive residencies, it is typical for applicants to do research in that field during medical school.


As an aside, you seem to be struggling with written English in this thread. I would note that that will be a far bigger issue than research or no research.
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Publications, whether they be clinical or about basic science physiology, during UG are still heavily discounted even if it is a first-author publication? So attending conferences and publishing basic science work in a competitive specialty like derm or ortho as an UG wouldn't carry as much weight as work done in medical school?
 
mimelim said:
#1 Most medical students do not publish.
#2 Many medical students will dabble in one or several projects while in medical school.
#3 The most common publication that we see are case reports, followed by retrospective reviews.
#4 All programs see research as a plus. However, it is not of particular importance for the majority.
#5 While not strictly true, in general, the more competitive a program is or a specialty is, the more important research becomes.
#6 Research done prior to entrance to medical school is heavily discounted in weight. For many specialties, research is not just about learning how to perform research, but it is also an avenue to demonstrate interest in a particular field. In the surgical specialties, attrition is a real issue. Interest matters. Thus, for highly competitive residencies, it is typical for applicants to do research in that field during medical school.


As an aside, you seem to be struggling with written English in this thread. I would note that that will be a far bigger issue than research or no research.
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As an aside, you could have left your aside out smartass.
 
BioTic said:
As an aside, you could have left your aside out smartass.
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I do not know why you think getting defensive and snide will help you in any way here, but it will not.
 
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blackroses said:
I do not know why you think getting defensive and snide will help you in any way here, but it will not.
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I didn't think I was being defensive lol? Just a witty comment... relax big guy.

P.S. Thanks for the realization because I really thought my witty comment would grant me a residency without research. You're so right it will not help me. Thanks man, really thanks.
 
wizzed101 said:
Wouldn't that cut both way? If one does research in that particular field prior to matriculation, will that not add weight to interest and commitment? Wouldn't research on surgical techniques and respective outcomes (Bench) and post op care (clinical) count? Someone told me that even medical students had trouble finding those.
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I don't know what you mean "cut both ways" given the context. Certainly longevity of time spent on research is a positive. But, the point is that rarely do pre-meds do clinically relevant research in the specialty that they end up going into. This doesn't mean that it is worthless. It just means that it isn't seen in the same light.

Shirafune said:
Publications, whether they be clinical or about basic science physiology, during UG are still heavily discounted even if it is a first-author publication? So attending conferences and publishing basic science work in a competitive specialty like derm or ortho as an UG wouldn't carry as much weight as work done in medical school?
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Yes. First author publication is great. It means a lot. But, if you are applying into vascular surgery, you can have 3 first author publications in plant biology from undergrad and they will mean little to nothing to program directors and others evaluating you for residency positions if they aren't followed up with something else. Most of our faculty don't pay attention to non-Vascular surgery related publications, maybe some general/core surgical publications, but outside of that, not really. This is primarily because there are dozens of applicants with vascular specific research that you are being compared with. The same goes for ENT, PRS, Derm, etc. So, while again, it is certainly impressive, it doesn't have the same impact.
 
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mimelim said:
#6 Research done prior to entrance to medical school is heavily discounted in weight. For many specialties, research is not just about learning how to perform research, but it is also an avenue to demonstrate interest in a particular field. In the surgical specialties, attrition is a real issue. Interest matters. Thus, for highly competitive residencies, it is typical for applicants to do research in that field during medical school.
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What about publications? If you have a few first author clinical papers out of college, will they still be discounted?

Edit: I just read the rest of the thread... Feel free to ignore me!
 
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mimelim said:
I don't know what you mean "cut both ways" given the context. Certainly longevity of time spent on research is a positive. But, the point is that rarely do pre-meds do clinically relevant research in the specialty that they end up going into. This doesn't mean that it is worthless. It just means that it isn't seen in the same light.
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My point was when that happened, would the research be given more weight because of commitment?
 
You can take a research year. People do whole PhD's between med school. Just depends on your interest.

Not all specialties require research, but the ones you think would, do.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Maybe start your research experiences off by doing a little of your own. ;)

Also, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and just makes you seem like an ungrateful dingus.
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I am highly offended by your assertion about sarcasm. Sarcasm makes up roughly 89.7% of my social interactions.
 
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Endoxifen said:
I am highly offended by your assertion about sarcasm. Sarcasm makes up roughly 89.7% of my social interactions.
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89.7 % is not nearly enough. If people are not completely confused every time they talk to you, then you are not doing it right.
 
B-Lymphocyte said:
89.7 % is not nearly enough. If people are not completely confused every time they talk to you, then you are not doing it right.
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I know, I've been letting my game slip a bit lately. Please forgive my impudence.
 
(Ignore, I just realized my question had been answered. Sorry!)
 
BioTic said:
I'd prefer if you just tell me cupcake.
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Poke a bear in the eye with a firecracker or call @Goro "cupcake"- not sure which is the more brilliant thing to do. You like to live dangerously my friend...
 
@Goro I have a question concerning this as well. As someone interested in internal medicine, I assume a publication in cardiovascular medicine journal that will be published the spring before I start medical school won't be disregarded just because I was not in medical school at the time I worked on the project correct?
 
Based upon the advice of the wise Mimelim and others, publications prior to med school don't really count towards what PDs want to see.

B-Lymphocyte said:
@Goro I have a question concerning this as well. As someone interested in internal medicine, I assume a publication in cardiovascular medicine journal that will be published the spring before I start medical school won't be disregarded just because I was not in medical school at the time I worked on the project correct?
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21Rush12 said:
It's the inverse square law of SDN neuroticism. As we approach the end of the cycle, the craziness intensifies. It's not even February and we've already reached "be rude to people helping you" and "call @Goro cupcake."

God help us on traffic day.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law


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I need to mark traffic day on my calendar. When is it?
Also, I've never heard of this law before, so we should call it @21Rush12 's law of SDN neuroticism....in honor of you.
 
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21Rush12 said:
It's the inverse square law of SDN neuroticism. As we approach the end of the cycle, the craziness intensifies. It's not even February and we've already reached "be rude to people helping you" and "call @Goro cupcake."

God help us on traffic day.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law


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but the inverse square law usually pertains to distance, not time. :bookworm::bookworm:

wikipedia said:
In physics, an inverse-square law is any physical law stating that a specified physical quantity or intensity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source of that physical quantity.
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i see your point though
 
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Lawper said:
but the inverse square law usually pertains to distance, not time. :bookworm::bookworm:



i see your point though
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You are correct of course. I meant that the mathematical relationship could possibly be extended to apply to neuroticism over time relative to the admissions cycle. It needs work, I'll have to get something published. Subject to peer review, naturally.


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