question about step II scores

Discussion in 'Internal Medicine and IM Subspecialties' started by ifearlazyeyes, Nov 26, 2005.

  1. ifearlazyeyes

    ifearlazyeyes New Member

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    So I got my step II score back today and it was significantly lower than I expected. Went down from mid 240s on step I to 219 on step II. Obviously I'm not too thrilled about this. I'm guessing that I'll finally start hearing from some of those top programs that hadn't rejected me yet which is fine but more importantly, I am wondering just how much of an effect this may have on where programs I already have interviews at decide to rank me. A major effect, a minor effect, something in between, impossible to tell? I know I can't do anything about it now but I'd still like to have an idea. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
     
  2. inositide

    inositide Senior Member
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    That is an excellent question. I am not sure what the answer is. I can only guess. My guess would be that Step 1 is more important than Step 2 for most program directors. Will they rank you any differently? *maybe* the most competitive programs like columbia, cornell, harvard programs, hopkins, etc might change your position on their rank list. Most likely the programs won't mind.

    But I would certainly like to hear what other people have to say about this question.
     
  3. DoctorDo-Little

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    So I'm assuming that you checked that box in ERAS to have your scores automatically forwarded to the programs... If not, simply don't send out your Step 2 scores - what they don't know can't hurt you :)
     
  4. inositide

    inositide Senior Member
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    Do internal medicine programs require Step 2ck results BEFORE they will rank you for the match? Or to put it differently, does it count as a strike against you if you haven't given the program your step 2ck scores by the time the program is ranking applicants?

    I know that a lot of surgery and surgical subspecialty applicants who have strong Step 1 scores delay the step 2 or don't submit results until after the match. Does the same thing hold true for medicine programs?
     
  5. inositide

    inositide Senior Member
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    Come on folks...let's have your 2 cents on the matter. :)
     
  6. DrHeartMD

    DrHeartMD Senior Member
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    my opinion is do not send the scores in...but I may be singular in that notion...I think in all honesty step 1 counts for more...if you automatically transmitted, nothing can be done (but I dont think it will hurt you at any of the programs except the most competitive ones)...as for whether you need step 2 to rank...I have heard from multiple seniors (people a year ahead of me), they said step 2 doesnt matter much for medicine, IF your have a strong step 1...I chose to take my step this december to make sure it wont show up on my eras, but still have it close enough to send in for rank time if I do well...though with all this checking and rechecking my email every 22 seconds, something tells me my step 2 will be taking a hit...
     
  7. forncroj

    forncroj Osteopathic Physician, COM Faculty
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    Step 1 scores are not as important. 219 is hardly a bad score, considering that board scores are only a small part of the selection process, and account for only a small part in prediction models for later success, I doubt you have much to worry about.

    I will not rank an applicant without knowing their Step 2 score; would be very unhappy to match someone who failed step 2.
     
  8. IntMed

    IntMed Member
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    Thanks for your helpful post. I definitely want my step 2ck score available for ranking. I scheduled it for Dec 28th and have indicated in ERAS that the score should be released to programs. Is the end of Dec too late for my score to be available during ranking consideration at some programs? For example, if their last interview date is Jan 13th, will they start the ranking meetings before my score arrives?

    Would you consider ranking a candidate who does not yet have a step 2 cs score posted but will be taking it in Feb?

    Many thanks for any help you can provide.

     
  9. IntMed

    IntMed Member
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    any program directors with any advice?

     
  10. forncroj

    forncroj Osteopathic Physician, COM Faculty
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    Depends on the program. We have a rank meeting the 1st week of Feb. Might be worth asking individual programs.

    Not sure what to say about CS. I've never seen anyone fail except FMG's, and of those who failed, all passed the second time. If I have positive feedback via ERAS re clinical performance, as a PD would probably take my chances.
     
  11. IntMed

    IntMed Member
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    Thanks!

     
  12. Ice-1

    Ice-1 Senior Member
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    If you had your Step 1 scores sent to programs by ERAS does that mean automatically that the Step 2 scores will also be sent or do you have to do some other check either on ERAS or with the boards? I'm taking Step 2 shortly so answers would be appreciated!
     
  13. APACHE3

    APACHE3 Senior Member
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    Not sure what to say about CS. I've never seen anyone fail except FMG's

    I'm an IMG who took CS with 21 other candidates. There was one repeater, a USMG from South Florida, ...sorry I just couldn't let it go! :D
    see ya!

    PS to the OP, you have great credentials, you'll do fine. GL
     
  14. DaBigDawg

    DaBigDawg Member
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    I've talked with a few program directors who told me that Step 2 carried more weight in medicine. Of course a lot of people don't have a Step 2 come rank time so Step 1 takes on more significance.

    If you have a weak step 1, and a great step 2 then step 2 counts more. If you have a strong step 1 and a weak step 2, then step 2 still counts more. I don't think this is true in many other fields other than medicine actually. But who knows... I'm not a program director and the only program director to actually post so far said the opposite of what I just said.

    A program director from a VERY good program (think MGH/Hopkins/Brigham etc.) told me that board scores actually count very little in medicine. Other things like your evaluations from your Medicine rotation and your subinternship are deemed more important. I point this out becuase there are a lot of people posting in the "interview offers" thread about how they are suprised that they didn't get an interview from program A even though they have scores of 250+ and are AOA.

    I think programs decided who to interview and who to rank much like we decide where to apply and where to go for interviews. Some of it has to do with rankings (or grades). I look at US News and see what programs are good in cardiology and I consider those programs. I then look at the local programs and pick the ones I consider the best. Finally I pick programs I have heard good things about from attendings/residents/other students. Programs likewise use grades and scores as just a rough guiding point. They also perfer local applicants because those people are more likely to rank them and because they have had more experience with prior applicants from that school. Finally they base a lot of their choices on what previous applicants from the schools have done. If a person from you school went to the program a few years ago and did horrible then you will have a MUCH harder time getting an interview.

    These are just my thoughts. Would love to hear what you all think. I just wanted to point out that there is no "science" to this application process and that is probably a good thing. I would hate to have to apply to only a certain subset of programs because of my grades and I'm sure programs would hate to be boxed in to only interviewing a certain kind of applicant. Applicants and programs decided a lot based on prior experience and gut feelings.
     
  15. inositide

    inositide Senior Member
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    Is that really true? "If you have a great step 1 and and a comparatively lower step 2, then step 2 counts more". If that is really how it works then that is bad for a number of reasons.

    Reason 1: It is much harder to acheive a higher score on step 1. Fewer people acheive 240+ on step1 than on step2 ck.

    Reason 2: The basic science knowledge demonstrated by doing well on step 1 is really the cornerstone that medicine residency would work on.

    Reason 3: A lower score on step2 may indicate that someone got hit hard in something like ob/gyn and his/her medicine performance may have been stellar.

    Whether or not the usmle scores count much when it comes to medicine, I don't know. I suspect that step 1 must count at least in deciding who gets interviewed. Giving more weight to step 2ck is a bad idea.
     
  16. quidnunc

    quidnunc Senior Member
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    I've heard people saying they usually hear about their score within 4wks of taking their exam - is this through a website, e-mail, or snail mail?
     
  17. MISTERshortcoat

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    Hello quidnunc,

    The NBME transmits scores to your med school each Wednesday. I believe you can call your home institution on that Wednesday and find out your score. Also, you can go to https://external1.nbme.org/ciw/servlet/candidate_menu and enter in your NBME# and password, and it will give you the status of your exam. Finally, if you just sit around and wait, the scores should be snail-mailed to you on the Wednesday they're released, and will probably arrive in your hands on Friday or Saturday of that same week. I received my Step 2 back in about 3 1/2 weeks.
     
  18. quidnunc

    quidnunc Senior Member
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    Thanks for the information. Do you know how long after you take the test the results are transmitted to your school (1 - 2 weeks?). I decided to release my score after I take it, but would like to know going into my big interviews in January what score I have.

    -Q
     
  19. MISTERshortcoat

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    Hello quidnunc,

    My scores were transmitted the same day they were released to both my home school and all of the schools I applied to. I checked the box to automatically release scores, though, in ERAS. I'm not sure what the delay is if you release them manually. I was also afraid that I would find out my score from my interviewer, because if an interview is on a Wednesday or Thursday, it's possible that they will have received your score before you have, if they were automatically released. :eek: Apparently a couple of students in the year ahead of me found out their scores in this way. Yikes.
     
  20. quidnunc

    quidnunc Senior Member
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    Hi Mr. Shortcoat,

    Yeah, I don't want the same thing to happened to me (find out my score from my interviewers). Although I'm confident I'll do fine, I would rather have peace of mind knowing my score before I go. I also requested to have my score released from ERAS once I take my exam. My question is, when is the score transmitted (eg. if I take it on a Friday, is it transmitted the following Wednesday? Is that when I can call my home school?). Is there a time delay (3-4wk) between taking the exam and score transmission?

    Thanks for your feedback and GL. ----Quidnunc.

    GO BRUINS!!!! :thumbup:
     
  21. MISTERshortcoat

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    Hello quidnunc,
    The grading process has taken between 3-6 weeks for my classmates. Everyone's scores are released on Wednesdays, no matter when you take the test. I took it on a Friday also, and received my score just under 4 weeks later. So, after you take your test, wait about 3 weeks and then call your school every Wednesday afternoon until you get your results, or until they get annoyed. :D You can also obsessively check the website I listed a few posts ago, to see if a date is posted under "score report sent date" under Step 2.
     

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