Question about the future of pharmacy

[Tuck]

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I would tend to argue that physicians are focused on diagnosis and treatment issues which includes drug therapy. The biggest problem for physicians, especially those who have been practicing for a long time, is keeping up with the current advances in medicinal treatment options. Physicians tend to focus on a specific specialty and are quite aware of the treatment methods in their field for the most part when they graduate or finish residency. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to keep up on all of the new drugs and interactions as a practicing physician to the level that a pharmacist is able to specialize. I think the main key in diversification within the field is to bridge the gap between the physician and pharmacist, not in diagnosis, but in the realm of advances in drug therapy.

 

[jdpharmd?]

wow... *shakes head*.. i'm in utter shock..

jd.. i'm curious to know what your school provides in training.. would there be a link with course curriculum i could take a look at?

as another advocate from the UW in Seattle, I'm starting to realize how advanced our curriculum is. We ARE provided with extensive pharmacology, medicinal chemistry and anatomy classes. We ARE given the opportunity through an elective to be certififed in immunizations and CPR/first aid (required course) as well (so if someone goes into shock, yes we can be certified to assist in that as well.)

so i'm really interested in how the schools differ.. when i come back from lunch i'm going to start a new thread on that topic.....

and why shouldnt we "expand" our scope of practice?

lunch.. but i'll elaborate more later

wow, *rolls eyes*, I'm starting to realize how pretentious some people can be...

Integrated sequence classes are med chem, pharmacology, theraputics. Enjoy:

Instructional Program
At MWU?CPG, students pursue the Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm.D.) degree. MWU?CPG's Pharm.D. Program prepares the student for entry into the profession of pharmacy. The entire program requires a total five years of coursework, the first two years at another college and the final three years at MWU?CPG. During their three years at MWU?CPG, students complete, on a year-round basis, a total of 202 quarter hours of credit: 120 hours in required courses, 12 hours in elective professional courses, and 70 hours in clinical/experiential education.

Curriculum


Fall Quarter,
First Year (17 qhrs) Course Title Quarter Hours
CORE 460 Interdisciplinary Health Care 0.5
PSCI 501 Human Physiology I 4
PSCI 551 Biochemistry I 3.5
PSCI 560 Pharmaceutical Calculations 2
PSCI 561 Pharmaceutics I 2
PPRA 571 Health Care Systems 3
PPRA 591 Introduction to Professional Practice I 2

Winter Quarter,
First Year (17 qhrs)
CORE 470 Interdisciplinary Health Care 0.5
PSCI 502 Human Physiology II 4
PSCI 552 Biochemistry II 3.5
PSCI 562 Pharmaceutics II 4
PPRA 572 Research Methods and Epidemiology for
Health Care Professionals 3
PPRA 592 Introduction to Professional Practice II 2

Spring Quarter,
First Year (17 qhrs)
CORE 480 Interdisciplinary Health Care 0.5
MICR 513 Microbiology 3
PPRA 523 Applied Pharmaceutical Care I 3
PSCI 553 Immunology 3
PHID 583 Integrated Sequence I: Introduction and Nonprescription Therapies 6.5
PPRA 593 Introduction to Professional Practice III 1

Summer Quarter,
First Year (16.5 qhrs)
PPRA 524 Pharmacy Law 2
PPRA 544 Applied Pharmaceutical Care II 2
PPRA 554 Renal Fluids and Electrolytes 3
PSCI 564 Pharmacokinetics and Biopharmaceutics 3
PHID 594 Integrated Sequence II: Infectious Diseases 6.5

Fall Quarter,
Second Year (16 qhrs)
PPRA 694 Introduction to Community Experience 8
PPRA 695 Introduction to Institutional Experience 8

Winter Quarter, Second Year (17 qhrs)
PPRA 665 Behavioral Medicine and Ethics 2
PPRA 676 Drug Information and Informatics 3
PHID 685 Integrated Sequence III: Autonomic Nervous and Cardiovascular Systems 9
PPRA/PSCI 6xx Electives 3

Spring Quarter, Second Year (17 qhrs)
PSCI 656 Clinical Pharmacokinetics/
Therapeutic Drug Monitoring 3
PPRA 675 Pharmacy Practice Management 3
PHID 688 Integrated Sequence IV: Central Nervous and Gastrointestinal Systems 8
PPRA/PSCI 6xx Electives 3

Summer Quarter, Second Year (16 qhrs)
PPRA 657 Patient Interviewing and Assessment 2.5
PPRA 667 Complementary Medicine 2
PPRA 677 Health Economics and Outcomes Assessment 3
PHID 690 Integrated Sequence V:
Endocrine and Pulmonary Systems 5.5
PPRA/PSCI 6xx Electives 3

Fall Quarter,
Third Year
(17 qhrs)
PPRA 737 Wellness, Prevention, and Disease Management 5
PHID 787 Integrated Sequence VI: Hematologic, Oncologic, Viral, and Musculoskeletal Disorders 9
PPRA/PSCI 6xx Electives 3

Winter and Spring Trimesters, Third Year
(48 qhrs) Professional Practice Experience Rotations 30 weeks for a total of 48 qhrs
PPRA 791 Advanced Patient Care Experience 8
PPRA 792 Advanced Patient Care Experience 8
PPRA 793 Advanced Patient Care Experience 8
PPRA 794 Advanced Patient Care Experience 8
PPRA 795 Advanced Patient Care Experience 8
PPRA 796 Elective Experience 8

MWU?CPG reserves the right to alter its curriculum, however and whenever it deems appropriate.

Professional Electives
During their years of study at MWU?CPG, students complete a minimum total of 12 hours of elective credit. Elective course offerings may include the following:

PSCI/PPRA 601 Special Project/Research 1.5 qhrs
PSCI/PPRA 602 Special Project/Research 3.0
PPRA 603 Community Service 1.5
PPRA 604 Current Topics in Health Care 1.5
PPRA 605 Interdisciplinary Health Care 1.5
PSCI 606 Dangerous Plants and Animals 1.5
PSCI 608 New Drug Product Development 1.5
PSCI 609 Novel Drug Delivery 1.5
PPRA 611 Pharmacotherapy and Nutrition Support in the Critical Care Setting 1.5
PSCI 612 Separation Methods 1.5
PPRA 613 Managing Prescription Benefits 1.5
PPRA 616 Issues in Infectious Diseases 1.5
PPRA 618 Chain Pharmacy Management 1.5
PSCI 619 Medical Spanish 1.5
PSCI 621 Contemporary Compounding 1.5
PPRA 622 Issues in Ambulatory Care 1.5
PSCI 623 Substances of Abuse and Addiction 3.0
PSCI 624 Exploring Biotechnology 3.0
PPRA 625 Management Information Systems for Health Care Professionals 3.0
PPRA 626 Clinical Toxicology 1.5
PSCI 627 Creativity and Holism 3.0
PPRA 629 Applications of Handheld PCs in Health Care 1.5
PPRA 630 Geriatric Pharmacotherapy 1.5
PSCI 631 Advanced Topics In Women's Health 1.5
PPRA 632 Institutional Clinical Pharmacy Program Development and Management 1.5
PSCI 634 Natural Products and Drug Discovery 1.5
PSCI 637 Chemistry of Natural Products 1.5
PPRA 638 Pharmacy-Based Health Screenings 1.5
PPRA 639 History of Pharmacy in America 1.5
PPRA 640 Elements of Supervision 1.5
PSCI 642 Introduction to Classical Homeopathy 1.5

 

[Mags]

wow, *rolls eyes*, I'm starting to realize how pretentious some people can be...

wow.. funny how my "wow comment" was about this whole thread in general, not about you in particular but you chose to jump on the defensive..

i was honestly just curious about your program.. b/c with this issue, the future of the pharmacy, how a student feels depends on a lot, including where they are, and where they're going to school, and what the school offers....

 

[vafcarrot]

Mags, I think Jd was doing that in response to the nonpharm people who joined the discussion.

 

[Caverject]

Mags, I think Jd was doing that in response to the nonpharm people who joined the discussion.

I agree with the hot carrot! 🙂

This thread is starting to look like a typical thread about a certain pharmacy school about to open Hawaii! Let's be civil

 

[bananaface]

If you keep calling vafcarrot hot, her husband is going to get really steamed! (pun intended) 😛

Here is a link to UW's curriculum in case anyone is interested in seeing it.
http://depts.washington.edu/pha/students/curriculum.html

Mags, keep in mind that not all states allow programs like ECP or pharmacist administered flu shots. So, not all schools can be expected to train students to perform those specific tasks.

I consider UW advanced in that it is located in a state that allows us to enact progressive legislation, and in that it has faculty and students who are not afraid to push the envelope. I really did not realize how different my state was from other states before I started school. Until I came across this thread I did not realize how much dissention there was within the profession about the programs coming out of my state.

JD, I bet you'll get the stuff you want out of the next couple of years of class. Maybe they just stuck all the touchy feely stuff at the beginning and the rest of the curriculum will be the more hardcore stuff you are looking for. I am surprised that you only get 12 elective credits during school.

Try soulcysters.com for a compilation of many articles on the subject.

When I said references I was referring to credible medical references, not a message board full of news releases. *sigh*

 

[jdpharmd?]

JD, I bet you'll get the stuff you want out of the next couple of years of class. Maybe they just stuck all the touchy feely stuff at the beginning and the rest of the curriculum will be the more hardcore stuff you are looking for. I am surprised that you only get 12 elective credits during school.

12 minimum... and all rotations are electives... IE clinical, HIV, IHS, compounding, diabetes, ID, poison control, law, etc.

 

[off2skl]

When I said references I was referring to credible medical references, not a message board full of news releases. *sigh*

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but when she sites sources such as those that have been published by the American Academy of Family Physicians, The Journal of Reproductive Medicine, and Fertility and Sterility printed by ASRM (American Society for Reproductive Medicine), I find those to be "credible."

She also lists various books on the subject. The one I quoted from before (Thatcher) is supposed to be the best currently.

Would a direct links to these sites be more accepting to you? http://asrm.org/Patients/topics/pcos.html
http://www.reproductivemedicine.com/index3.html

From a quick look it doesn't look like they have anything specific on BCP right now.

As you can see this is a personal issue for me. So, aside from various articles, I am drawing from my own experiences as well as from information from an RE(reproductive endocrinologist). If he says that I should only be on certain types of BCP, then I think I would have more faith in him than in a pharmacist. Someone mentioned in another thread that although pharmacists specializes in medications, a specialist who prescribes them on a regular basis sees their effects firsthand.

I've noticed that although there are many people who have posted in this thread, you are the only one that is arguing back and forth on this point. It could be that the rest do not know about this disease, and actually if that is the case, I respect them for it. Likewise, there would be many areas that I do not yet know enough about to comfortably post responses.

What also concerns me at this point is your condescension (*sigh*). I hope that it does not translate into your work as well. Empathy and understanding are very much needed in the pharmacy profession.

 

[off2skl]

12 minimum... and all rotations are electives... IE clinical, HIV, IHS, compounding, diabetes, ID, poison control, law, etc.

JD, the schedule I got looks like they group several electives together into a time slot. Do you actually select each individual elective or do you select a "block" of electives? Or is the schedule not a fair indication of how it works 🙂

 

[jdpharmd?]

JD, the schedule I got looks like they group several electives together into a time slot. Do you actually select each individual elective or do you select a "block" of electives? Or is the schedule not a fair indication of how it works 🙂

I'm pretty sure that you can pick each one, but the credits have to add up correctly, and obviously the times have to work out too. 😉

 

[bananaface]

As you can see this is a personal issue for me. So, aside from various articles, I am drawing from my own experiences as well as from information from an RE(reproductive endocrinologist). If he says that I should only be on certain types of BCP, then I think I would have more faith in him than in a pharmacist.

I am not advocating that pharmacists make contraceptive choices for those already diagnosed with PCOS. I am pointing out that the incidence of PCOS is not a reason to deny the other 90-95% of women access to contraceptive services. The reason your a RE would not want to prescribe a levonorgestrel containing contraceptive is to prevent exacerbation of hirsutism, which is cosmetic. Even if an undiagnosed woman with PCOS recieved hormonal contraceptives from a pharmacist, there would be no imminent harm. If she were to take a levonorgestrel containing hormonal contraceptive and develop signs of hirsutism, she could seek medical attention and be diagnosed with PCOS. Even if she was never diagnosed, she would still get the benefits of contraceptive therapy for a patient with PCOS: regulation of menses and protecting the endometrium, which is key in reducing the incidence of abnormally high endometrial growth and carcinoma.

I asked you for a source, off2skl, because I was asking you to pass your source on to me, as I would ask any peer who found information that I had wanted to verify. Before I asked you for your sources, I did a primary literature search and could not find the data to back your statement. Me asking you for your source is not a sign that I do not trust you or that I look down upon you. As a professional, I cannot accept practice altering statements without good data behind them, for the good of my patients. I am still concerned though that you seem to be upset with me for not accepting your statements at face value. Hopefully, we can work through that.

As it turned out, the true source of your information seems to be personal communication with a physician. I can appreciate why your provider would choose a 3rd gen BC over a 1st or 2nd gen hormonal contraceptive. Certainly, there is nothing wrong with making the best choice. But, what I think we are debating is whether there is a wrong choice to make, and whether a 2nd gen BC is that wrong choice. Given that the undesired effects of levonorgestrel are cosmetic, and the benefits of hormonal contraceptive therapy are not, I would have to reason that a 2nd generation hormonal contraceptive is not an ideal choice, but also not a wrong one. There would be exceptions, of course, such as when a patient is so upset by the symptoms of hirsutism that she becomes clinically depressed. But we are dealing with diagnosed patients here, and I am advocating that pharmacists be able to dispense hormaonal contraceptives for contraceptive purposes, not for treatment of diagnosed PCOS.

As an aside that should be helpful to many pre-pharmacy folks, credible medical sources, those which a care provider would trust for accurate information, have to be picked very carefully. If you see a report in a news release, chances are the reported has put his or her own "spin" on the information. The further you get from primary literature (the actual studies), the chance that the information you are getting has been put forth accurately drastically decreases. I, and hopefully others in medical professionals, read any news releases or non-medical society sponsored website postings with caution. If you see primary literature articles cited, that is a very good sign. Monographs are also good, because they consist of information that is generally accepted and represent the standard of practice. I would also consider the practice guidelines for medical societies to be (geerally) good information.