Question about traffic ticket

[LiteralLungs]

In my state, a minor speeding ticket is a misdemeanor. When I received this ticket, I had the option of paying the fine (this means you plead guilty) or going to court. I went to court and was granted a probation before judgement (PBJ), which means that I plead guilty, but the judge does not enter a final judgement of conviction. Essentially, this PBJ allowed me to avoid getting points on my record and increased insurance rates. I still reported this on AMCAS. In the court, I remember someone asking about the word "probation" in "probation before judgement" and what it involved. The judge explained that it isn't a formal "probation".

A secondary is asking me to report criminal offenses, including "probation". But not "traffic tickets that only resulted in a fine."

Do I include this in the secondary? This would have only resulted in a fine had I not gone to court.

Did I screw myself over by including the phrase "probation before judgement" on AMCAS? Are schools going to read that and think that the traffic violation was more serious because it included a "probation"?

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[Blueprint Med School]

You could probably leave this out since it states "traffic tickets that only resulted in a fine."

Kevin W, MCAT Tutor
Med School Tutors

 

[jhmmd]

In my state, a minor speeding ticket is a misdemeanor. When I received this ticket, I had the option of paying the fine (this means you plead guilty) or going to court. I went to court and was granted a probation before judgement (PBJ), which means that I plead guilty, but the judge does not enter a final judgement of conviction. Essentially, this PBJ allowed me to avoid getting points on my record and increased insurance rates. I still reported this on AMCAS. In the court, I remember someone asking about the word "probation" in "probation before judgement" and what it involved. The judge explained that it isn't a formal "probation".

A secondary is asking me to report criminal offenses, including "probation". But not "traffic tickets that only resulted in a fine."

Do I include this in the secondary? This would have only resulted in a fine had I not gone to court.

Did I screw myself over by including the phrase "probation before judgement" on AMCAS? Are schools going to read that and think that the traffic violation was more serious because it included a "probation"?

Don't get too caught up in all the court lingo. They are asking about misdemeanors and felonies. If you don't have either, you are fine leaving this blank.

 

[LiteralLungs]

Don't get too caught up in all the court lingo. They are asking about misdemeanors and felonies. If you don't have either, you are fine leaving this blank.

It is a misdemeanor minor traffic violation with probation before judgement

 

[jhmmd]

It is a misdemeanor

Ah then you might want to post this in Confidential Consult

 

[jhmmd]

Be aware that you will have to explain misdemeanors and felonies all the way through licensing and every single year that you apply to renew your DEA #/NPI/etc. etc. Med schools want candidates who will fly straight through the licensing requirements. So you better give them a darn good reason to take a chance on you.

The penalties for lying about misdemeanors and/or felonies when you apply for licensure usually include revoking one's medical license and/or medical degree. So you could easily go bankrupt. Tread carefully.

 

[KnightDoc]

In my state, a speeding ticket is a misdemeanor. When I received this ticket, I had the option of paying the fine (this means you plead guilty) or going to court. I went to court and was granted a probation before judgement (PBJ), which means that I plead guilty, but the judge does not enter a final judgement of conviction. Essentially, this PBJ allowed me to avoid getting points on my record and increased insurance rates. I still reported this on AMCAS. In the court, I remember someone asking about the word "probation" in "probation before judgement" and what it involved. The judge explained that it isn't a formal "probation".

A secondary is asking me to report criminal offenses, including "probation". But not "traffic tickets that only resulted in a fine."

Do I include this in the secondary? This would have only resulted in a fine had I not gone to court.

Did I screw myself over by including the phrase "probation before judgement" on AMCAS? Are schools going to read that and think that the traffic violation was more serious because it included a "probation"?

No, you didn't screw yourself over. At the end of the day, it's a speeding ticket. Because your state happens to treat it as a minor criminal offense rather than as a traffic violation, and because you rolled the dice and ended up with probation instead of just a fine, it is reportable.

So just report it like you have here. If in doubt, consult a lawyer rather than relying on free anonymous advice from the internet, but you will be fine. It's still just a speeding ticket. It's not going to cause licensing issues in the future!!!

 

[LiteralLungs]

and because you rolled the dice and ended up with probation instead of just a fine, it is reportable.

What do you mean? Because I decided to go to court over it, that made it more serious?

 

[jhmmd]

What do you mean? Because I decided to go to court over it, that made it more serious?

The fine is still paid through the court anyways so your point is moot

 

[KnightDoc]

What do you mean? Because I decided to go to court over it, that made it more serious?

Well, yeah. I'm only going by what you posted. You said you could have paid the fine, taken the points and been done with it. Now, your secondary is asking about "probation" and you agreed to "probation." You said the judge said it's not a "formal probation," but it's "probation before judgment." Exactly what is an "informal probation" anyway?

But I'm still not saying it's serious. I'm saying, no matter how you slice it, it's a speeding ticket and nobody is going to care about it. So why risk anything by not disclosing a misdemeanor that resulted in PBJ. Just disclose it and be done with it. Again, if in doubt, spend a few bucks to talk to a lawyer who understands the law in your state rather than listening to what anyone on SDN has to say. After all, it's only your future at stake.

 

[LiteralLungs]

The fine is still paid through the court anyways so your point is moot

Well, yeah. I'm only going by what you posted. You said you could have paid the fine, taken the points and been done with it. Now, your secondary is asking about "probation" and you agreed to "probation." You said the judge said it's not a "formal probation," but it's "probation before judgment." Exactly what is an "informal probation" anyway?

But I'm still not saying it's serious. I'm saying, no matter how you slice it, it's a speeding ticket and nobody is going to care about it. So why risk anything by not disclosing a misdemeanor that resulted in PBJ. Just disclose it and be done with it. Again, if in doubt, spend a few bucks to talk to a lawyer who understands the law in your state rather than listening to what anyone on SDN has to say. After all, it's only your future at stake.

The secondary question asks to list offenses that resulted in "probation" but not "minor traffic offenses that resulted in a fine." I think both of these criteria may apply to my case, but I'm not sure about "probation" because that makes me think of a more serious formal probation with the implication of jail time and a probation officer overseeing your daily life.

I spoke to a lawyer about this back when I was filling out my AMCAS, and she told me not to put anything, even though AMCAS asks to list misdemeanors. I didn't trust her advice because it went against what AMCAS asked me.

 

[jhmmd]

The secondary question asks to list offenses that resulted in "probation" but not "minor traffic offenses that resulted in a fine." I think both of these criteria may apply to my case, but I'm not sure about "probation" because that makes me think of a more serious formal probation involving a probation officer overseeing your daily life.

Like @KnightDoc said above, probation is probation. It doesn't matter if they call it Italian Bologna Probation or Turkey Bologna Probation or PBJ. It's probation and if you want advice, my advice is to report it. Do as you like.

 

[jhmmd]

The secondary question asks to list offenses that resulted in "probation" but not "minor traffic offenses that resulted in a fine." I think both of these criteria may apply to my case, but I'm not sure about "probation" because that makes me think of a more serious formal probation with the implication of jail time and a probation officer overseeing your daily life.

I spoke to a lawyer about this back when I was filling out my AMCAS, and she told me not to put anything, even though AMCAS asks to list misdemeanors. I didn't trust her advice because it went against what AMCAS asked me.

Sounds like you have your answer then

 

[KnightDoc]

Like @KnightDoc said above, probation is probation. It doesn't matter if they call it Italian Bologna Probation or Turkey Bologna Probation or PBJ. It's probation and if you want advice, my advice is to report it. Do as you like.

This^^^^^^. I'm honestly not sure what you are sweating here. This all relates to a speeding ticket. In most states, it wouldn't be reportable because it wouldn't be a misdemeanor. Your state is different. Then, you added to the complexity by accepting a plea that included probation, which the secondary is asking about now.

Your minor traffic offense didn't only result in a fine. It also resulted in probation. What do you lose by disclosing? The school will read your disclosure, see it involves a speeding ticket, and move on.

The alternative is not disclosing. Maybe nothing happens because nobody cares. Maybe your PBJ comes up in a background check after you matriculate, and they rescind your A. I dunno, what are the odds and what is the worst that can happen?

You've already disclosed on AMCAS. Why not provide full disclosure on the secondary? If it's going to be a problem now, it would probably be one later. But I'm betting serious money you are worrying about nothing. It's a freaking speeding ticket!!!

 

[KnightDoc]

Sounds like you have your answer then

No, because he already disclosed on AMCAS! The question now is specifically disclosing the PBJ on the secondary. I REALLY don't see how disclosing this, and explaining it's a zero traffic point speeding ticket disposition is going to be a problem at any school.

 

[Med Ed]

The secondary question asks to list offenses that resulted in "probation" but not "minor traffic offenses that resulted in a fine." I think both of these criteria may apply to my case, but I'm not sure about "probation" because that makes me think of a more serious formal probation with the implication of jail time and a probation officer overseeing your daily life.

I spoke to a lawyer about this back when I was filling out my AMCAS, and she told me not to put anything, even though AMCAS asks to list misdemeanors. I didn't trust her advice because it went against what AMCAS asked me.

If you disclose this the worst thing that will happen is the reader(s) will have a laugh about how stupid it is that you had to disclose it.

 

[LiteralLungs]

No, because he already disclosed on AMCAS! The question now is specifically disclosing the PBJ on the secondary. I REALLY don't see how disclosing this, and explaining it's a zero traffic point speeding ticket disposition is going to be a problem at any school.

Should I have explained that a PBJ means that I received zero points on my driving record?

 

[Med Ed]

Should I have explained that a PBJ means that I received zero points on my driving record?

It's a speeding ticket. No one cares. At all.

 

[KnightDoc]

Should I have explained that a PBJ means that I received zero points on my driving record?

Yes, I would explain it all to make sure the school has the proper context, including how your state treats traffic offenses as misdemeanors rather than violations, how PBJ is the disposition you elected in order to avoid points, etc.

 

[jhmmd]

It's a speeding ticket. No one cares. At all.

Speeding tickets are akin to starving children in Africa. You see a picture on TV and for a fleeting moment, you feel like donating; then you reach back into your can of Pringles and get lost in something else.

 

[Med Ed]

Speeding tickets are akin to starving children in Africa. You see a picture on TV and for a fleeting moment, you feel like donating; then you reach back into your can of Pringles and get lost in something else.

Or you set up regularly monthly donations to 9 charities. Because you're a sucker. Like me.

 

[Goro]

Or you set up regularly monthly donations to 9 charities. Because you're a sucker. Like me.

Habitat for Humanity?
World Food Program?
Care?

 

[Med Ed]

Habitat for Humanity?
World Food Program?
Care?

The only one I'll cop to on this forum is the UNCF, because I'm an educator and BLM.

The rest run the gamut from easily recognizable to... niche.

 

[LiteralLungs]

Yes, I would explain it all to make sure the school has the proper context, including how your state treats traffic offenses as misdemeanors rather than violations, how PBJ is the disposition you elected in order to avoid points, etc.

I did not do this on my AMCAS, which went to all schools I applied to. I just stated that I received PBJ for the speeding. I didn't think to do this, and I also wonder if adding this explanation might be seen as making excuses. Would you suggest I send out an update to all of my schools now explaining this information to give them more context about the traffic laws in my state?

 

[KnightDoc]

I did not do this on my AMCAS, which went to all schools I applied to. I just stated that I received PBJ for the speeding. I didn't think to do this, and I also wonder if adding this explanation might be seen as making excuses. Would you suggest I send out an update to all of my schools now explaining this information to give them more context about the traffic laws in my state?

No, I think you are fine on your primary. It's just that your secondary is now specifically asking about it, and you need to be consistent with what you disclosed on the primary, so that is the place to elaborate.

Your primary says speeding, so that's fine. As everyone is saying, nobody is going to care about the technicalities in your state, and nobody cares about speeding. No need for an update. This is absolutely not why you would be rejected anywhere. You just want to provide full disclosure to avoid being accused later of hiding anything, on the off chance it appears on a background report, since your state treats traffic offenses as something greater than a mere violation. You are fine. Just report to cover your butt.

 

[LiteralLungs]

No, I think you are fine on your primary. It's just that your secondary is now specifically asking about it, and you need to be consistent with what you disclosed on the primary, so that is the place to elaborate.

Your primary says speeding, so that's fine. As everyone is saying, nobody is going to care about the technicalities in your state, and nobody cares about speeding. No need for an update. This is absolutely not why you would be rejected anywhere. You just want to provide full disclosure to avoid being accused later of hiding anything, on the off chance it appears on a background report, since your state treats traffic offenses as something greater than a mere violation. You are fine. Just report to cover your butt.

I said more than speeding on the primary. I explained that it was a guilty plea with probation before judgement. So I'm realizing that people reading might not understand what that means. As everyone else has mentioned though, I guess it doesn't matter

 

[KnightDoc]

I said more than speeding on the primary. I explained that it was a guilty plea with probation before judgement. So I'm realizing that people reading might not understand what that means. As everyone else has mentioned though, I guess it doesn't matter

Again, as long as you mentioned speeding, the reader knows it's a speeding ticket. Totally no reason to call any attention at all to it with an update. Honestly, you are really fine with this. Other than this, how is your cycle going? If you have any IIs at all yet, that is all the proof you need that this is nothing. If not, how many schools are you complete at, and when were you complete?

 

[LiteralLungs]

Again, as long as you mentioned speeding, the reader knows it's a speeding ticket. Totally no reason to call any attention at all to it with an update. Honestly, you are really fine with this. Other than this, how is your cycle going? If you have any IIs at all yet, that is all the proof you need that this is nothing. If not, how many schools are you complete at, and when were you complete?

I was complete at most schools mid September (27 schools). I have received a rejection.

 

[KnightDoc]

I was complete at most schools mid September (27 schools). I have received a rejection.

You didn't ask, but I'll tell you anyway -- without knowing anything else, you don't yet have anything to worry about. You've barely been complete for a month, and you only have one R. In any event, I promise, this is not why you haven't received any IIs yet, so please don't feel the need to fix something that isn't broken by bringing attention to it with an update.