Question for a LECOM student

[Amy B]

Hi,

I will be interviewing there (11-3) and was wondering about what you all are allowed to wear during gross anatomy. There seems to be confusion in the posts I have read. thanks

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[Dr_sax]

Gross Anatomy dress is as follows:

1) All lectures(and any for that matter) LECOM dress code, ie, business/professional attire.

2) For labs, you are "supposed" to wear a shirt with collar, pants of some kind(most wear a khaki), and close-toed shoes. Lab coats are provided for a charge. No scrubs. It really is variable...like most everything at LECOM.

Hope that helps,

Dr_Sax, MSI LECOM

 

[Doctortobee]

Hey

I wear old kahaki's, a cheap $5 shirt that had a collar, and and old pair of sneakers...and a lab coat of course...

 

[DOtobe]

People in my class would come in just about anything...jeans, sweatpants, khakis, sweatshirts, non-collared T-shirts...and not get yelled at. But evidently they are becoming more strict in what is required for labs. But the scrubs were definitely a no-no even for my class. So it looks like the picture that Dr. Buck shows (the khakis and collared shirt) is actually what you have to wear to lab.

 

[Dr_sax]

Dr. Silvia paid a visit to lab and suddenly the anatomists were 10 times more anal. Go figure.

Dr_Sax

 

[Amy B]

Thanks for your responses. I don't mind the professional dress code, but the dress code for lab is not what I would want. I understand scrubs are for docs, but they are so cheap and comfortable.

Is it true there are only a few cadavers? Do you feel like you are getting the proper exposure to the cadavers? Thanks again. Choosing which school to go to is a big decision and I want to make sure I make the right choice.

 

[smgilles]

Originally posted by Amy B
Thanks for your responses. I don't mind the professional dress code, but the dress code for lab is not what I would want. I understand scrubs are for docs, but they are so cheap and comfortable.

Is it true there are only a few cadavers? Do you feel like you are getting the proper exposure to the cadavers? Thanks again. Choosing which school to go to is a big decision and I want to make sure I make the right choice.

You will get more exposure than you could possibly dream of. There are approximately 16 cadavers with groups of 4 to each body in your section. There are 4 sections. You usually have two 2-hour labs each week plus you will be in there almost every night (depending on your study habits) looking at the cadavers. I have never had a problem of not being able to see the structures on the bodies because of too many people. Everything is prosected so the hard work and time consumption is already taken care of for you. Instead of spending your two hours dissecting you spend that time finding and identifying pertinent structures. Some people would like to dissect, but I think it has worked out very well. It makes much better use of your time.

You will find at LECOM that the facilities nice, the teachers are competent, and the curriculum challenging, BUT the administration does not have a grasp on reality (i.e. collared shirt to lab, no food/drink outside of cafeteria, mandatory attendance, etc...). These are rules that obviously get broken everyday at school, but they are still a pain to try to sneak around. They have taken attendance about 3 times in 10 weeks.

The board scores at LECOM are very good too. That is another thing the administration will not release but some of the teachers will. I saw them two weeks ago and LECOM had two of top 5 COMLEX scores in the nation for the class of 2005. That could be indicative of the education, the student, or both, either way I feel I will be prepared for boards. The average of the class was around 515 with 93% passing on their first attempt.

If you have anymore questions just ask or PM me. I am in the PBL pathway along with Dr. Sax so if you would like to know anything about that pathway you can ask either one of us.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

Think of the LECOM dress code as getting a head start on presenting yourself professionally as you enter your professional career.

I understand the desire to be comfortable during these tough times but I can't believe the anger and repulsion LECOM instigates with this stupid dress code. I honestly am happy I don't have to worry about what to wear everyday, just as long as my clothes are clean and my tie/pants/shirt don't clash too much it's all good.


Points to consider:
-the education and your ability to be happiest is definitely most important

-after the second year you don't really even step foot in that building again


We work in rotating groups of 4 (4people/body). There are only around 15-20 bodies but the entire 225 person class does not all go in at once, we have four lab sections- thats how they get the #'s down to 4/body. Thats another non-issue in my book.

Stand your ground and never settle. Make sure you are not just happy with the school but happy with where you're living wherever you end up. For the quick jaunt of 2 years that kind of thing DOES matter. After a tough day of exams or class you need to be able to walk out of those doors and step into a community that is condusive to your relaxation habits (i.e. things to do and nice/affordable places to live)...

Food for thought, good luck. Feel free to ask us questions as much as you'd like.

-LECOM 2007

 

[njdo]

I think the MSI's are a bit jaded in thinking that Anatomy is great at LECOM. I will be honest and say that Gross Anatomy sucked at LECOM last year (and I'm sure most MSII's will agree). Now, it should be said that things are different this year, but the biggest problem is still there-RUSH. For some reason, LECOM finds it necessary to jam-pack anatomy into 3 months. Anatomy is probably one of the most important things you need to know as an osteopathic physician, and I don't feel well-prepared as an MSII with my anatomy knowledge because of how anatomy was handled last year.

I would hope that they continue to improve upon their changes in the anatomy department, but it still seems as if they like to experiment every year. Sometimes this can be a good thing (ie. change is good), but it seems like they haven't settled on a good thing yet after years of teaching this essential course.

In all honesty, I love the curriculum at LECOM, and it was one of the reasons I chose this school. I just want to warn prospective students that LECOM does not do a good job of preparing students in anatomy (and OMM for that matter). Core curriculum and clinical wise (ie. systems)--the school does an awesome job!

In defense of the school, they do incorporate gross anatomy lectures into every system which helps review things that they breezed by before. Those lectures help narrow down what's important to those systems.

njdo

 

[Dr_sax]

The MSIs do have it much easier than the MSIIs did. Like previously stated, we don't have to dissect, but they did. So far, I've been challenged and with head and neck looming over us, I'm sure the real fun is here. Anatomy sucks everywhere, bottomline. LECOM's really hasn't been bad for us this year(2 weeks left baby!!!).

Oh, and if you're using the "rules" as your deciding factor about LECOM, then forget it. I've seen every rule broken, as I'm sure njdo and the other 2nd and 3rd years can say. If you're a girl, then you HAVE NO DRESS CODE. If you want food or drinks, you can find a way. Attendence policy? Well, I know it only works for a while, but we've been having our neighbor sign us in. Or, people will skip a few classes, come in late, find the sign-in sheet(when we have one, mind you), and sign it.

Food for thought,

Dr_Sax

 

[group_theory]

Originally posted by smgilles
You will get more exposure than you could possibly dream of. There are approximately 16 cadavers with groups of 4 to each body in your section. There are 4 sections. You usually have two 2-hour labs each week plus you will be in there almost every night (depending on your study habits) looking at the cadavers.

So you only spend 4 hrs/week (formally) in anatomy lab? 😕

That's a little on the low side, don't you think?

Prosection may be great, but there is something to be said about having your own body, and spending countless hours digging through fascia, fat, and other stuff to find what you want. I dunno, the work and elbow grease I put in makes it easier to identify structures come Anatomy Practical time. Anatomy lab is a unqiue experience and for many of us, it will be our only experiences with cadavers. But I'm more of a hands-on type of person, instead of just show-me.

Edit: What I meant to say was that anatomy lab and dissection is a unique experience and a rite of passage among MS1s across the country (MD and DO). I just feel that you guys might be missing out on all the fun (and anatomy lab can be fun at times, believe it or not)

 

[smgilles]

Originally posted by group_theory
So you only spend 4 hrs/week (formally) in anatomy lab? 😕

That's a little on the low side, don't you think?

Prosection may be great, but there is something to be said about having your own body, and spending countless hours digging through fascia, fat, and other stuff to find what you want. I dunno, the work and elbow grease I put in makes it easier to identify structures come Anatomy Practical time. Anatomy lab is a unqiue experience and for many of us, it will be our only experiences with cadavers. But I'm more of a hands-on type of person, instead of just show-me.

Edit: What I meant to say was that anatomy lab and dissection is a unique experience and a rite of passage among MS1s across the country (MD and DO). I just feel that you guys might be missing out on all the fun (and anatomy lab can be fun at times, believe it or not)

You are correct! We only have 2 MANDATORY labs for a total of 4 hours a week. I personally am in the lab 15-20 hours a week/weekend. There is no way you are going to pass if you are in lab only for 4 hours a week. Also, yes, sometimes I do wish we we had the oppurtunity to dissect but I have to take what has been given to me.

We still dig around in the bodies plenty on our own. We just got our checklist for head and neck 2 days ago and it is 14 pages long. So I don't think we have a lack of knowledge went it comes to IDing structures or locating them on our own.

 

[Dr_sax]

I agree. Listen to the LECOM MSIIs. They had to dissect here on a 3 month schedule and hated it. Most described it as useless. I don't think extra lab time will help when our curriculum is packed into 3 months. Extend it to a semester and we can talk about longer lab period. The way it is now works for me.

And I'm not there for many hours a week and still doing fine. Another good thing about prosection- you can learn lab nicely from a book. It varies from person to person however.

Dr_Sax

 

[H0mersimps0n]

agreed. I use cadavers to suppliment book/lecture learning. Though I've had partners that learn better by seeing it in the body. Thats definitely not me, I don't mind spending a few hours with Netter then walking in and being able to ident 80-90% of things I've seen for the first time... to each his own

 

[stomper627]

As an MSIII I can say that I think LECOM is finally getting it right with this 12 week anatomy. For us, we had all basic sciences during the first semester together. So along with having to spend hours in the lab, we also had to study biochem, physio, micro, histo, path, pharm, embryo, etc. I had to sacrifice getting an A out of anatomy in order to keep my Biochem grade above passing....and that didnt even work at the end. I think doing the anatomical sciences together allows one to focus on the more difficult aspect of MSI.
We had dissections and as a hopeful surgeon, I loved doing the cutting and disecting....although I will say that most of the learning came from the prosections. Most medical schools are going away from disections and using the prosections....I have mixed feelings over this....easier to learn and study (more time efficient) but loss of a major "rite of passage" especially those interested in surgery.
stomper

 

[DOtobe]

I'm one of the ones who learned better from actually getting inside the body and cutting myself. When we had to do prosections I felt like I was lost, but when I dissected myself it seemed to stick more. And I had a blast in anatomy lab - my lab group was awesome and it was like the blind leading the blind, so we laughed at ourselves pretty much all through the labs.

I agree with stomper that you guys have it so much easier. Our first year absolutely sucked.

Just my two cents' worth.

 

[H0mersimps0n]

Well I don't know if it's "easier" but it's definitely more pleasent to be able to focus all of these hours toward the material like we are (though I know some would disagree and say it's boring-whatever). Personally, 12 weeks is almost perfect. The only section I would've liked more time for would be upper limb for reasons I won't mention here...

I was burning out the other night (usually I study till I can't read anymore, literally physically) and was thinking to myself, boy it would be nice to have anatomy spread out over a few more weeks. But then I thought to myself, nah, this pace keeps us all working a 12-18 hr day and thats how it should be, anything less and it wouldn't be medical school and would be stretching out the pain and torture for longer...

LECOM has definitely come a long way in the past 3+ years...

 

[kristenE]

I don't know why so many non-LECOMers feel that they must BASH our school. Like many have said before me, every school has its problems, but until YOU come here, YOU really can't judge LECOM. If you interviewed here and didn't like it, good for you. I hope that you're SUPER happy at your school.

Bottom line, people tend to make mountains out of molehills.

Dress code: no big deal. People can roll out of bed and put on wrinkled khakis and a shirt and tie just as they can jeans and a sweatshirt. Look at our role model. She looks like Harry Potter in a bad, oversized suit and Naturilizer tennis shoes. I think she's just trying to save us.... apparently its far too late for her. There are guys who wear full leisure suits in our class. Stylish, no. Professional, no. Acceptable for LECOM dress code, yes. Pick your stinkin battles.

Dress code in lab: yeah, we wear pants, shirts and tennis shoes. Who cares if we can't wear scrubs??? Plenty of time for that!!!

Truly, I don't care if you guys don't like LECOM. There are lots of us that do. So, if it makes you feel that much better, I will quote a wise classmate of mine "Sir, yes Sir. Bash my school at will, Sir" (Dr_Sax, 2003). Until you come here, you really don't know if LECOM fits for you. Form your own opinions, don't let others do it for you.

 

[raspberry swirl]

the dress code is annoying but thats about all it is. its really not an issue. if you choose not to attend lecom because you want to wear scrubs in lab, thats ridiculous. same goes for attendence-- people skip everyday. and there are a few kids that NEVER come. there are students who go in the lab EVERY NIGHT. there are others of us who avoid it like the plague and do just as well on tests as those who are in there constantly. anatomy is rushed at LECOM but frankly thats ok with me because its not a difficult subject to study and learn on your own for boards. its straight up memorization-- there is no need to spend more time on it in lecture. i'm really happy that i ended up here, and ps i don't follow dress code for lab, sometimes not lecture, i skip, i bring drinks into lecture, and i never go into the lab outside of the scheduled times and i'm doing just fine.

 

[DOtobe]

Originally posted by kristenE
Look at our role model. She looks like Harry Potter in a bad, oversized suit and Naturilizer tennis shoes. I think she's just trying to save us.... apparently its far too late for her.

That is absolutely one of the funniest things I have read about LECOM!

(This quote also reminded me of a time when Cheggy told us "I may just seem like a geriatric Harry Potter to you..." )

I agree about the LECOM bashing. I don't understand it. All over this site people bash LECOM for different reasons. I like the school. It has given me a great education so far and it is going to get me to where I want to go, to becoming a doctor.

I also don't see why people are so stunned that we can't wear scrubs to lab... 😕

But to each his own.

 

[group_theory]

LECOM bashing? 😕

Are you referring to this thread in particular or to the general feeling in SDN?

If you re-read this thread, everyone who replied are LECOMers, except me and Amy B.

Amy B. will be interviewing, and she was curious about the dress code (weren't you when you first found out about it?)

WIth me - well, I was just surprised that you guys had 4 hrs of anatomy lab (formally) per week. It is certainly different than what I am used to, so I asked about it. No nay-sayer on my part. Heck, I have yet to visit Erie or LECOM so I have no right whatsoever to criticize LECOM.

For the record - I was stunned when I found out (in this thread) that the guys at LECOM are required to wear collared shirt in anatomy lab. Why stunned? Well, it certainly is different. Is it a big deal? Not really.

Anyway, just being honest here.

 

[Dr_sax]

I'm wise

Dr_sax

Edit: Oh, and Kristen, the thing about our Dean- priceless.

 

[DOtobe]

I think it's just a general feeling on SDN about LECOM bashing, nothing really having to do with this thread specifically. I don't think there was any bashing on this particular thread.

It's just that the "you have a dress code? Ewww" stuff gets kinda old.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Dr_sax]

I agree with DOtobe. Most threads concerning LECOM have at least negative feelings or develop them as the thread progresses. It makes us Leycomers defensive sometimes.

Dr_Sax

 

[njdo]

KristenE,

That comment was too funny.

As far as the way things are run, an alumnus (a hem/onc fellow)came back to tell us..."although they run this place like a military school, they do an excellent job of preparing students, and you'll be top-notch in 3rd and 4th years."

njdo