Question for medical students

[TurkSurg]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

If you were to start undergrad again, what would you have done differently to get into a better medical school ?

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Drank More.

 

[Forthegood]

I second that. Also, meet more people. Know everyone in your classes, be it a 15 person seminar or 150 person lecture. It'll help in all areas.

 

[Dr Roboto]

If you were to start undergrad again, what would you have done differently to get into a better medical school ?

Why did you have to go and put better in there?

 

[lord_jeebus]

I should have...

padded my GPA by taking more courses with the football team and majoring in Communications

waived my AP credit and taken all the most basic science/math available

picked one EC and stuck with it the whole time

gone to office hours to get better letters of rec

done research with someone on the associated med school's adcom

 

[Law2Doc]

I should have...

padded my GPA by taking more courses with the football team and majoring in Communications

waived my AP credit and taken all the most basic science/math available

picked one EC and stuck with it the whole time

gone to office hours to get better letters of rec

done research with someone on the associated med school's adcom

Agreed. Well, actually I did a lot of these things. But I think if you really wanted to optimize your chances, you would not be premed in college. Would major in anything non-sci that you were sure you could get A's in, regardless of the relevance to medicine. Take no sciences in college, nothing that might impact your GPA adversely. At the same time find your way into a research lab you could spend a few hours in over the whole 4 years, and find a hospital you could volunteer at a few hours a week over 4 years. And find an activity you are passionate about to squeeze in over those years. Stay away from anything "premed" during college. Once you were finished with college, go to a formal postbac program and take all the premed sciences (and nothing else), at a time when you are able to focus on them completely and without trying to balance these along with other graduation requirements. Get A's. Then do an MCAT prep course, take a TON of full length practice tests, and do well on that test. That is the path of least resistance to a top med school. You probably come out with a higher GPA, better ECs, had more fun in college, and are a bit more mature (having spent an extra year or two for the postbac) by the time you apply. That's my suggestion.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Agreed. Well, actually I did a lot of these things. But I think if you really wanted to optimize your chances, you would not be premed in college. Would major in anything non-sci that you were sure you could get A's in, regardless of the relevance to medicine. Take no sciences in college, nothing that might impact your GPA adversely. At the same time find your way into a research lab you could spend a few hours in over the whole 4 years, and find a hospital you could volunteer at a few hours a week over 4 years. And find an activity you are passionate about to squeeze in over those years. Stay away from anything "premed" during college. Once you were finished with college, go to a formal postbac program and take all the premed sciences (and nothing else), at a time when you are able to focus on them completely and without trying to balance these along with other graduation requirements. Get A's. Then do an MCAT prep course, take a TON of full length practice tests, and do well on that test. That is the path of least resistance to a top med school. You probably come out with a higher GPA, better ECs, had more fun in college, and are a bit more mature (having spent an extra year or two for the postbac) by the time you apply. That's my suggestion.

Right. So you have to balance your desire for a "top" school with the desire to get on with your life, and perhaps any desire you might have to learn for learning's sake 😛

 

[Superman78]

A better question is: if you didn't get into your first choice, what would you have done differently to get in?

 

[TurkSurg]

yea thats what i meant lol 😀

 

[cbrons]

I did what Law2Doc said but mashed it into a 4 year undergrad (actually just 3, since I started late). Mad amounts of summer school. Am doing a psychology major and I've managed to fit in all the pre-req classes. Also, I've done research in a psychopharmacology lab the past 6 months and will continue next semester (while doing epidemiolgoical research). Been doing tons of ECs, like NAACP, studetn gov. and have shadowed 5 doctors on and off. My GPA hasn't taken a hit, and I take the MCAT in May. We shall see if I rushed things too much this summer when applying.

 

[RoyBasch]

Agreed. Well, actually I did a lot of these things. But I think if you really wanted to optimize your chances, you would not be premed in college. Would major in anything non-sci that you were sure you could get A's in, regardless of the relevance to medicine. Take no sciences in college, nothing that might impact your GPA adversely. At the same time find your way into a research lab you could spend a few hours in over the whole 4 years, and find a hospital you could volunteer at a few hours a week over 4 years. And find an activity you are passionate about to squeeze in over those years. Stay away from anything "premed" during college. Once you were finished with college, go to a formal postbac program and take all the premed sciences (and nothing else), at a time when you are able to focus on them completely and without trying to balance these along with other graduation requirements. Get A's. Then do an MCAT prep course, take a TON of full length practice tests, and do well on that test. That is the path of least resistance to a top med school. You probably come out with a higher GPA, better ECs, had more fun in college, and are a bit more mature (having spent an extra year or two for the postbac) by the time you apply. That's my suggestion.

Although I have not come out of the other side of this admissions process successfully yet, I am in it, and I can say that once again L2D hit the nail on the head, with a sledgehammer.

I once did a thought experiment of the "best," as in path of least resistance, way to get into medical school (short of a 6, 7, 8 year program deal) and this was basically what I thought of. The only disadvantage is you need to spend a year or two after college with the whole post-bacc and MCAT thing, but if starting med school at 24 or 25 doesn't sound so bad, this is THE WAY if ever there was one.
-Roy

 

[chiz2kul]

Agreed. Well, actually I did a lot of these things. But I think if you really wanted to optimize your chances, you would not be premed in college. Would major in anything non-sci that you were sure you could get A's in, regardless of the relevance to medicine. Take no sciences in college, nothing that might impact your GPA adversely. At the same time find your way into a research lab you could spend a few hours in over the whole 4 years, and find a hospital you could volunteer at a few hours a week over 4 years. And find an activity you are passionate about to squeeze in over those years. Stay away from anything "premed" during college. Once you were finished with college, go to a formal postbac program and take all the premed sciences (and nothing else), at a time when you are able to focus on them completely and without trying to balance these along with other graduation requirements. Get A's. Then do an MCAT prep course, take a TON of full length practice tests, and do well on that test. That is the path of least resistance to a top med school. You probably come out with a higher GPA, better ECs, had more fun in college, and are a bit more mature (having spent an extra year or two for the postbac) by the time you apply. That's my suggestion.

This sound super duper ideal, but I sure as heck didnt go thru this route, and wonder how many pple wld actually consider doing this....seems really extended, but a good idea nonetheless.

 

[156925]

I should have...

padded my GPA by taking more courses with the football team and majoring in Communications

waived my AP credit and taken all the most basic science/math available

picked one EC and stuck with it the whole time

gone to office hours to get better letters of rec

done research with someone on the associated med school's adcom

100% on the money.

 

[Stixman28]

I did what Law2Doc said but mashed it into a 4 year undergrad (actually just 3, since I started late). Mad amounts of summer school. Am doing a psychology major and I've managed to fit in all the pre-req classes. Also, I've done research in a psychopharmacology lab the past 6 months and will continue next semester (while doing epidemiolgoical research). Been doing tons of ECs, like NAACP, studetn gov. and have shadowed 5 doctors on and off. My GPA hasn't taken a hit, and I take the MCAT in May. We shall see if I rushed things too much this summer when applying.

How is this what L2D said if its "mashed" into three years? He mentioned the added maturity, and time available to dedicate to the pre-reqs and mcats. Just the non pre-med major?

I don't mean to attack, but it does seem quite different.

Perhaps the reason for my strong reaction? I did do it the "slow" way. Im delighted with my path, my fantastic undergraduate education which was not in the hard sciences, and my post-bacc experience.

Ill be entering my top choice med school this august, fresh, currently enjoying every moment of my year off, and 25.

I'd recommend it to anyone and everyone who values a strong and balanced education.

 

[circulus vitios]

Agreed. Well, actually I did a lot of these things. But I think if you really wanted to optimize your chances, you would not be premed in college. Would major in anything non-sci that you were sure you could get A's in, regardless of the relevance to medicine. Take no sciences in college, nothing that might impact your GPA adversely. At the same time find your way into a research lab you could spend a few hours in over the whole 4 years, and find a hospital you could volunteer at a few hours a week over 4 years. And find an activity you are passionate about to squeeze in over those years. Stay away from anything "premed" during college. Once you were finished with college, go to a formal postbac program and take all the premed sciences (and nothing else), at a time when you are able to focus on them completely and without trying to balance these along with other graduation requirements. Get A's. Then do an MCAT prep course, take a TON of full length practice tests, and do well on that test. That is the path of least resistance to a top med school. You probably come out with a higher GPA, better ECs, had more fun in college, and are a bit more mature (having spent an extra year or two for the postbac) by the time you apply. That's my suggestion.

I think that's a bit impractical. $40k+ in undergraduate debt for a useless degree, $50k+ debt for a formal post-bac program, $5k for MCAT prep, and $250k debt for a private 'top' medical school?

 

[Stixman28]

I think that's a bit impractical. $40k+ in undergraduate debt for a useless degree, $50k+ debt for a formal post-bac program, $5k for MCAT prep, and $250k debt for a private 'top' medical school?

It's not cheap, but some of those numbers are a bit different than what the route has, and will cost me.

I guess, it's always important to ask yourself if the journey with worth the $$$.

 

[diosa428]

I think that's a bit impractical. $40k+ in undergraduate debt for a useless degree, $50k+ debt for a formal post-bac program, $5k for MCAT prep, and $250k debt for a private 'top' medical school?

It's also impractical if you are interested in majoring in a science and able to get good science grades while taking a full courseload. I personally found my science classes to be easier than non-science classes, so Law2Doc's scenario would have hurt my GPA more than helped it.

 

[flaahless]

If I could do it again I would...

learn a foreign language

study abroad

double major with something practical like sociology, poli sci or business, rather than being a one-dimensional science major.

 

[Law2Doc]

I think that's a bit impractical. $40k+ in undergraduate debt for a useless degree, $50k+ debt for a formal post-bac program, $5k for MCAT prep, and $250k debt for a private 'top' medical school?

It's not really impractical. If you think about it, it's what most of the folks who ended up going into formal postbacs actually do. Some did it by design, others decided on medicine later in the game. Formal postbacs usually require you to have taken none of the prereqs, so what I'm describing is exactly their target applicant. The average age in med school is 24, so it's not like you are losing ground against the average by going this route. The OP asked for a road map to a "better school". This is one.

 

[Law2Doc]

It's also impractical if you are interested in majoring in a science and able to get good science grades while taking a full courseload. I personally found my science classes to be easier than non-science classes, so Law2Doc's scenario would have hurt my GPA more than helped it.

If you major in science and then apply to med school, you don't bring as much diversity to your application as someone who majored in a non-sci or non-premed path. That's not fatal for the solid students, but for those folks looking for an edge, maybe it isn't ideal. As for getting good science grades, they aren't going to carry you any farther than good nonsci grades plus good grades in a postbac. For most people looking to get into a "better school" (meaning they could use some improvement), majoring in something you can do well in and focusing on the sciences later with fewer distractions is advantageous. My plan also leaves more time for better ECs.

 

[scarletgirl777]

This sound super duper ideal, but I sure as heck didnt go thru this route, and wonder how many pple wld actually consider doing this....seems really extended, but a good idea nonetheless.

I definitely know someone who did that route and graduated from HMS, and at least one person pursuing it now. It's definitely the way to go if you have no other goals or plans for your life other than getting into the highest ranked school possible. 😎

 

[UofM527]

If I could do it again I would...

learn a foreign language

study abroad

double major with something practical like sociology, poli sci or business, rather than being a one-dimensional science major.

I absolutely agree with those first two points...really wish i would have stuck with the foreign language i took so that i were fluent in something besides english...and i wish i could have traveled/studied abroad!!

Besides that, things really worked out well for me...I took my time (5yrs), was a double major (biochem and something totally different, sociology, which i loved!), had plenty of time to do research, volunteer, clinical etc...member of a social fraternity at a large state school, so plenty of partying back in the day...can't say i'd change a whole lot🙂

 

[diosa428]

If you major in science and then apply to med school, you don't bring as much diversity to your application as someone who majored in a non-sci or non-premed path. That's not fatal for the solid students, but for those folks looking for an edge, maybe it isn't ideal. As for getting good science grades, they aren't going to carry you any farther than good nonsci grades plus good grades in a postbac. For most people looking to get into a "better school" (meaning they could use some improvement), majoring in something you can do well in and focusing on the sciences later with fewer distractions is advantageous. My plan also leaves more time for better ECs.

Yes but if good science grades are "easy", and good non-science grades are "hard" for a particular person, then it makes more sense to take the easy route and avoid the postbac. I also don't see how your plan leaves time for "better" ECs... unless you count the additional time in the postbac as additional time for ECs. But if that's the case, someone could just as easily take 1-2 years off after med school, work in a healthcare-related field, and have more interesting experiences than school, school, school.

Also, being a science major makes it easier to do research, which boosts an application.

 

[deleted74029]

Also, being a science major makes it easier to do research, which boosts an application.

I agree, at my undergrad most of the PIs wouldn't be too welcoming of a sociology major wanting to work in their lab.

 

[redlight]

Yes but if good science grades are "easy", and good non-science grades are "hard" for a particular person, then it makes more sense to take the easy route and avoid the postbac. I also don't see how your plan leaves time for "better" ECs... unless you count the additional time in the postbac as additional time for ECs. But if that's the case, someone could just as easily take 1-2 years off after med school, work in a healthcare-related field, and have more interesting experiences than school, school, school.

Also, being a science major makes it easier to do research, which boosts an application.

couldnt you just do research in your non-science major? how does being a science major make it easier to do research? or do you mean science research specifically? i thought any research is great... i thought the point of doing research as a good EC was because it teaches you new techniques, you learn to work through problems and analyze in different ways, etc. great research experience isn't limited just to science.

 

[redlight]

also i think taking the "easy route" of doing non-science liberal arts education and then doing the postbacc would probably cause adcom to scrutinize your reason for going into medicine more. how do explain totally ignoring science/medicine for four years and then suddenly wanting to do medicine without coming off as mpulsive or maybe naive or something? or w/o coming off as someone who "took the path of least resistance" and tried to get into medical school the "easy" way?

 

[Law2Doc]

couldnt you just do research in your non-science major? how does being a science major make it easier to do research? or do you mean science research specifically? i thought any research is great... i thought the point of doing research as a good EC was because it teaches you new techniques, you learn to work through problems and analyze in different ways, etc. great research experience isn't limited just to science.

You can do science research as a nonsci major. I'd say that while all research is good, scientific research is more likely to interest the 1-2 PhD's you'll find on most adcoms.

My point as to having more free time is that nonsci courses more frequently are less time intensive than science courses. For science courses, the way folks do well is to do tons of problems. For nonsci majors, you are largely reading and writing (skills you will need in medicine, by the way, far more than you think, once you get to the clinical years and are writing extensive notes on every patient every day). From personal experience the latter is less time intensive, which means you will have more free time. Go to any college bar and see who is out partying on a weekday night. More often than not the majority will be folks majoring in fine arts, not pchem. Or look at the courses that are most popular with the jocks and cheerleaders. It won't be orgo. (Sure these are exaggerations, but I think you all get my point).

 

[Law2Doc]

also i think taking the "easy route" of doing non-science liberal arts education and then doing the postbacc would probably cause adcom to scrutinize your reason for going into medicine more. how do explain totally ignoring science/medicine for four years and then suddenly wanting to do medicine without coming off as mpulsive or maybe naive or something? or w/o coming off as someone who "took the path of least resistance" and tried to get into medical school the "easy" way?

You'd think that, but no it doesn't happen. It actually makes you more well rounded to not be gung ho science since age 17. Schools love that religion major who "saw the light" during senior year and went to postbac, etc. If anything, schools are concerned about folks who don't explore other things, because that results in a lot of angst later when things get tough and folks in med school start questioning whether this is really the path they want to be on. folks who have already explored other paths are thought to experience less of this. It's less an issue of impulsivity and more an issue of having actually explored other options and researching other paths before focusing in on medicine. The dude who knew he wanted to be a doctor since age 6 might have a great experience in which to put in his PS, but honestly, he hasn't given other fields a chance and might find he has made a bad decision at the least opportune time, once it's hard to change. So yeah, the dude who was a few years older when he made the decision, and has actually tried something else (at least in college, if not beyond), often has an easier, not harder, sell. Which is why I'm saying it's the path of least resistance.

Sure a lot of gung ho science folks won't like hearing this, but the ever increasing percentage of nonsci majors and postbacs in each school speaks volumes. The surest path to medicine is no longer through biology/biochem. That model has come and gone.

 

[gatoradedrinker]

I am currently applying to medical school so technically I don't fit the inclusion criteria as indicated by the thread title... but since I feel rebellious today, I'm going to answer anyway.

My "change" would begin in high school... I would attend some science magnet school, take a bunch of pre-req AP courses (physics, biology, chemistry, calculus, etc.)... who cares if you end up getting your butt kicked, just test your waters and get as much exposure to the sciences as you possibly can prior to taking the real-deal courses in university. Personally, my high school did a crappy job of preparing me for the sciences and I attribute that to my less than stellar performance in my first year of college. Hell, even audit some college courses while in high school - this will ensure that you're aware of college expectations in the sciences when you finally get there

Also, I wouldn't go to a "top notch" university... in fact, I'd go to a small, lower ranked public school which wasn't particularly competitive, but still offered a ton of resources like research opportunities (some schools in the University of California system would be a perfect example). As mentioned by someone earlier in this thread, select a major which will give you diversity and will simultaneously be "easy" ... essentially, inflate the crap out of your GPA.

Start research early, stick with the same PI for a long time. (Preferably someone who is on the adcom at that school). As far as ECs go, "quality over quantity" should always rule out - make sure to stick with the same programs/clubs/whatever for as long as possible. Ultimately when you graduate from undergrad, be sure to "leave your legacy" behind. You should be remembered by the changes you made while you were involved - that's when you know you've done something meaningful.

And then of course, the MCAT. Recognize you weaknesses early... VR can be a killer section for some, so I'd advise for students to take a practice MCAT VR section in your first year of undergrad. If you identify a weakness there, you'll have ample time to be proactive about it... start reading like crazy. The BS and PS sections on the other hand will come to you through studying and practice, so I wouldn't sweat that until it's absolutely necessary.

 

[diosa428]

couldnt you just do research in your non-science major? how does being a science major make it easier to do research? or do you mean science research specifically? i thought any research is great... i thought the point of doing research as a good EC was because it teaches you new techniques, you learn to work through problems and analyze in different ways, etc. great research experience isn't limited just to science.

I meant it makes it easier to do science research because #1 - very few profs are going to take you into their science lab if you haven't at least taken intro to bio, chem, or whatever kind of research they do, and #2 - the easiest way to get into a lab is to take a course with the professor and do well, which would imply that you'd have to be taking science courses to do science research.

Sure, you can do research outside of science if you want to.