Question for non-trads

[lainey234]

I am just starting out and weighing my options. I will more than likely just go back to my local college and re-do all the pre-req's (I took them 10 yrs ago and only got a 2.9). Post-bacc is not much of an option for me as I would have to commute 1+hrs each way during Colorado winters. I am hoping some non-trads who went back and just re-did their pre-reqs can share some of their experiences (positive and negative) when applying to med school. Is it reasonable to do well in pre-reqs and MCAT and get accepted without taking any upper division courses?

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[Law2Doc]

Is it reasonable to do well in pre-reqs and MCAT and get accepted without taking any upper division courses?

Yes, to this part of your question.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

I can't give you any advice about re-taking - I was an accountant who finally came to my senses and decided to study medicine.

Post-bacc was certainly not an option for me. Maybe I was hedging my bets, but I couldn't see myself selling my house and incurring large amounts of debt before I even got to med school (and I had family commitments to my elderly mother). Anyway, I did all of my basic prerequisites in community college at night. Those two years were probably the most interesting and exciting period of my life - but, looking back, I'm not sure how I did it.

As far as lower-division courses only - you can do that, but you may limit your attractiveness as a candidate. Many schools require only the basic pre-reqs (chem, orgo, physics, and basic biology) but a number of schools (including my state schools) require at least one upper-division biology course. I will have two upper-divisions before med school - cell bio and biochem. I hadn't finished either one when I did my AMCAS but those courses were listed as scheduled "future classes." I would strongly recommend that you have one or two upper-division biology courses on your app, especially if you're defending a low GPA from past years. Good luck.

 

[relentless11]

Over here in CA, at least at my school, they have added the recommendation that you take biochemistry which is usually an upper division course. Theres also the age old saying...."when there are more than one OChem course offered, the more rigorous one is recommended"...which implies taking the upper division OChem course.

Therefore application wise, it may be a good thing to take more upper div courses as they are a better indicator of your knowledge of fundamental concepts, and ability to handle higher academic workloads.

As for your MCAT question, it is entirely possible to take the MCAT with lower division classes, but if you choose to do so, I highly recommend taking a prep course so they can fill in any knowledge gaps that may show up. All in all, even though it is possible to do well with just pre-req knowledge, you will probably have an easier time studying/taking the MCAT if you have taken upper division courses that expand your knowledge in these areas. There's a post ...in the Pre-allopathic medicine section where someone asks about what classes would be helpful. The list is pretty big.

 

[Law2Doc]

As for your MCAT question, it is entirely possible to take the MCAT with lower division classes, but if you choose to do so, I highly recommend taking a prep course so they can fill in any knowledge gaps that may show up. All in all, even though it is possible to do well with just pre-req knowledge, you will probably have an easier time studying/taking the MCAT if you have taken upper division courses that expand your knowledge in these areas. There's a post ...in the Pre-allopathic medicine section where someone asks about what classes would be helpful. The list is pretty big.

I actually disagree with this last point. Depends, of course, on the caliber of the prereqs at your school, but I frankly found that there was NOTHING on the MCAT science sections that was not covered adequately by the prereqs I took. Most of the folks I know who did extremely well did not have any sciences beyond the prereqs. I do advise a refresher course, but wouldn't take upper levels just for MCAT reasons. (There may be other valid reasons to take upper levels, I just don't consider the MCAT one of them).

 

[Emergency!]

lainey -

There seems to be this huge myth out there that you have to do a formal post-bacc program in order to be a competitive candidate. That is not at all true. My situation is not quite the same as yours, because I hadn't taken any of the pre-reqs in my first degree, but I took all of my pre-reqs at two undergrad institutions, enrolling as a "non-degree" or "continuing ed" student.

Since you've already taken the pre-reqs and are retaking them, I think if you talk to some admissions people they are going to recommend that in addition to doing very well in them the second time around, they would like to see you take at least a few additional upper level science courses. There is, IMO, a viewpoint by adcoms that simply retaking classes is not as indicative of ability to succeed as doing well in a course the first time you take it (and thus, the liking to see some upper levels if you are retaking).

MCAT wise, probably the only upper level class that I felt would have helped me would have been physiology. Some people will argue that a genetics class is helpful, but if your biology course does a decent job of covering basic genetics, that should be enough.

I will echo the above about a lot of schools starting to require or strongly recommend biochemistry. I have also seen recommendations for molecular genetics and cell biology or other upper level bio course.

Good luck!

 

[relentless11]

I actually disagree with this last point. Depends, of course, on the caliber of the prereqs at your school, but I frankly found that there was NOTHING on the MCAT science sections that was not covered adequately by the prereqs I took. Most of the folks I know who did extremely well did not have any sciences beyond the prereqs. I do advise a refresher course, but wouldn't take upper levels just for MCAT reasons. (There may be other valid reasons to take upper levels, I just don't consider the MCAT one of them).

I personally agree with what you're saying, as stated it is possible to take the MCAT with pre-reqs alone. However based on my experience and my classmates, we found it better to deal with things such as passaged base questions when we have taken subject specific upper division courses in that area. It just saves time studying, and provides more time doing the practice questions in my opinion. Take physiology, this class is an upper division course here, and physio is not adequately covered (say renal stuff) in much detail in any med school pre-req. I found that to be helpful as I did run into a kidney problem on the real MCAT back in the day.

I think the take home message is, upper div or classes beyond the pre-reqs are helpful but not neccessary. Probably the most important thing is to take the MCAT when one is ready, and when one feels that they are ready...rather than rushing into it...but don't psych yourself out. I had a friend do that the day before the exam...haha. He got into med school..but it happens

 

[Emergency!]

lainey -

There seems to be this huge myth out there that you have to do a formal post-bacc program in order to be a competitive candidate. That is not at all true. My situation is not quite the same as yours, because I hadn't taken any of the pre-reqs in my first degree, but I took all of my pre-reqs at two undergrad institutions, enrolling as a "non-degree" or "continuing ed" student.

Since you've already taken the pre-reqs and are retaking them, I think if you talk to some admissions people they are going to recommend that in addition to doing very well in them the second time around, they would like to see you take at least a few additional upper level science courses. There is, IMO, a viewpoint by adcoms that simply retaking classes is not as indicative of ability to succeed as doing well in a course the first time you take it (and thus, the liking to see some upper levels if you are retaking).

MCAT wise, probably the only upper level class that I felt would have helped me would have been physiology. Some people will argue that a genetics class is helpful, but if your biology course does a decent job of covering basic genetics, that should be enough.

I will echo the above about a lot of schools starting to require or strongly recommend biochemistry. I have also seen recommendations for molecular genetics and cell biology or other upper level bio course.

Good luck!

 

[relentless11]

**Double Post**

 

[cfdavid]

I am just starting out and weighing my options. I will more than likely just go back to my local college and re-do all the pre-req's (I took them 10 yrs ago and only got a 2.9). Post-bacc is not much of an option for me as I would have to commute 1+hrs each way during Colorado winters. I am hoping some non-trads who went back and just re-did their pre-reqs can share some of their experiences (positive and negative) when applying to med school. Is it reasonable to do well in pre-reqs and MCAT and get accepted without taking any upper division courses?

Well, it is possible to leave your pre-req's (with a less than competitive gpa), and just study for the MCAT and take a sufficient amount of upper level science courses to establish a recent academic history. (Different schools have different policies on this. One school I spoke to said that non-trads may be required to take up to 16 credit hours and get all A's pretty much)

Also, remember that you don't need to do a FORMAL post-bacc program. All I did was enroll as a post-bacc student and simply picked and chose which sciences I wanted to take. My pre-req's were 10-12 years old as well, but I did really well back then. So, the post-bacc route was an easy option. Again, it wasn't an official pre-med post-bacc program. I just took classes when I could.

Can you just start taking mid-upper level science courses in a non-structured post-bacc program??

If so, start with a good cell-bio class. Then consider physiology, biochem, and genetics.

With some work, you can re-teach yourself the basics. I used Examkrackers material and also some Kaplan online science review (really only used the Examkrackers), as well as some old text books. Also, Examkrackers has some useful text books they recommend.

It's totally plausible to do this on your own.

**The other route is to retake those pre-req's in which you did not do so well in. If you build up enough of those credits (i.e. developing a recent academic history with the basic pre-req's), I don't think they can hold much against you for not having too many of the upper level sciences (that aren't technically required).

Keep in mind, though, that many schools really want to see some biochem and genetics (some even require these). So, you may consider them anyway.

Good luck. You'll work out a plan that works for you.

 

[medicalbound]

I am just starting out and weighing my options. I will more than likely just go back to my local college and re-do all the pre-req's (I took them 10 yrs ago and only got a 2.9). Post-bacc is not much of an option for me as I would have to commute 1+hrs each way during Colorado winters. I am hoping some non-trads who went back and just re-did their pre-reqs can share some of their experiences (positive and negative) when applying to med school. Is it reasonable to do well in pre-reqs and MCAT and get accepted without taking any upper division courses?

I know right where you are coming from because I was exactly where you are 3.5 years ago. My sciences were all 10 years old and the degree I ultimately earned was in Information Systems which did next to nothing to prepare me for my prereqs. While I decided not to go the formal post-bacc route, I did end up braving those Colorado winters over the Palmer Ridge and commuted 1+ hrs each way to attend a university with a really strong science program which was also better suited for non-trad schedules. I went to school part time, and worked 50 hrs/wk as a software engineer and ED tech while balancing my family life (wife and 3 small kiddos). The only upper division class I took was Cell Bio which was after the MCAT and interviews. If you concentrate on relearning the core sciences, you can do just fine on the MCAT. I opted to not take an MCAT prep course, but instead studied on my own (EK) and did well enough to get accepted this year. I truly wish you the best. Don't lose sight of the goal, and you can get there!