Question on SMP

[Deleted member 237747]

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[236116]

Yeah, pretty much.

Why wouldn't C+ be average.

 

[savant]

what's smp?

 

[236116]

what's smp?

special master's program

 

[DrJD]

I have read many postings on this board saying a poor performance in SMP is the end of medical dream. So anyone failing or getting C's etc has no chance further?? Is this correct. I will imagine not everyone who gets in SMP does good, specially as most good schools curve. In my school(UMD), average of premed class is C+, this where profs think they maintained a good standard. I will think same for these high profile programs like Georgetown etc.

Not everyone does well, but everyone can do well. You aren't curved against your fellow SMP students. You are graded based on a curve of the medical students. The lowest most students get at Georgetown is a B, which is the same as "pass" for the medical students. There are a few percent who get below that, but the thing is that if you are getting a 3.0 in an SMP that isn't going to impress ADCOMS...

And yes, if you blow it in an SMP you are effectively blowing your chances at acceptance to a medical school.

 

[RoadRunner17]

As someone who was considering doing this two years ago (was accepted to Georgetown's program), I'm kind of glad I didn't simply because of the cost. And well, I'm holding 3 acceptances now, so it all worked out in the end.

DrJD's blog is well-done and I liked reading through it... sort of to see what I was missing out on! Check it out if you're looking for more info on what it's like.

 

[halekulani]

if you get below a 3.5 in an SMP i would add DO schools in addition to your next amcas application...

 

[bigserve99]

I don't buy that. I'm in the NYMC SMP now. We take every M1 course except for Anatomy and behavioral. To get an A in this program you have to place within the "Honor's" portion of the med school curve for the class. That's top 10%. A 3.5 says you honored half the classes and high passed the rest. (High Pass being the next 10 - 15% down and equivalent to a B). If you just passed, I believe it would be a C. Just because you score somewhat less than this.....meaning you get a 3.4 or 3.3 does not mean you did not do well. You still did better than 70 - 75 percent of an allopathic class.

 

[Pedsbro]

Not everyone does well, but everyone can do well. You aren't curved against your fellow SMP students. You are graded based on a curve of the medical students. The lowest most students get at Georgetown is a B, which is the same as "pass" for the medical students. There are a few percent who get below that, but the thing is that if you are getting a 3.0 in an SMP that isn't going to impress ADCOMS...

And yes, if you blow it in an SMP you are effectively blowing your chances at acceptance to a medical school.

Truf!

 

[DrJD]

I don't buy that. I'm in the NYMC SMP now. We take every M1 course except for Anatomy and behavioral. To get an A in this program you have to place within the "Honor's" portion of the med school curve for the class. That's top 10%. A 3.5 says you honored half the classes and high passed the rest. (High Pass being the next 10 - 15% down and equivalent to a B). If you just passed, I believe it would be a C. Just because you score somewhat less than this.....meaning you get a 3.4 or 3.3 does not mean you did not do well. You still did better than 70 - 75 percent of an allopathic class.

You are half right... Medical schools that have a thorough understanding of the grading system of SMP's will of course understand what you just wrote and in that sense you are right.

Unfortunately, there are some schools that do not understand the grading system. They are told repeatedly in letters from the SMP, by you, addition letters, etc. etc. etc. When it comes down to it, they many just view it as a regular old masters. In a regular masters a 3.3 is terrible.

Here in lies the problem. Of course in reality a 3.0 still says a lot, it means you got a passing grade in medical school which should be more than enough to convince adcoms that you can handle the course work because, after all, you did! Overcoming these notions of a 3.0 being bad is very difficult though.

There are a select few schools who understand very well how SMP's grade and therefore those are your best shots!

 

[Siverhideo1985]

I don't buy that. I'm in the NYMC SMP now. We take every M1 course except for Anatomy and behavioral. To get an A in this program you have to place within the "Honor's" portion of the med school curve for the class. That's top 10%. A 3.5 says you honored half the classes and high passed the rest. (High Pass being the next 10 - 15% down and equivalent to a B). If you just passed, I believe it would be a C. Just because you score somewhat less than this.....meaning you get a 3.4 or 3.3 does not mean you did not do well. You still did better than 70 - 75 percent of an allopathic class.

I think NYMC would know that, but I am not sure about other schools, say, on the West Coast, who are not familiar with your specific program.

I did my SMP at Loyola and the notion was that this program was our second chance (after which there are no more) and you have to do well if you plan to get accepted to MD programs.

Also, in one of my interviews (at VCU) my interviewer talked a bit about their SMP and told me that they expected their students to get A's. He said that was their only job during that year.

In my experience (and this is really just my two cents) an SMP is there to raise your GPA. If you subject yourself to another year or two of study because you have a sub-par GPA (for MD programs: somwhere around 2.8 - 3.5) and then again end up with a below-mediocre GPA, you either a) didn't improve your application or b) actually lowered your chances.

Couple thoughts on this: a) a SMP can also be good to collect new and meanigful medical experiences b) doing an SMP might also portrait a certain degree of dedication, since you are willing to spend thousands of dollars and lots of time to get into medical school. c) A lot of kids in my program also retook the MCAT...an SMP can provide an excellent support system for study groups and help on MCAT, so there is another way to improve your application while in an SMP

In the end, I don't think an SMP gpa is the final determinant on anyone's application, but I would encourage every SMP student to give it their absolute best and try your hardest to improve your undergrad GPA.

 

[nick_carraway]

If you just passed, I believe it would be a C.

Sorry to parse one line out of your entire post, but isn't a passing grade at the graduate/professional level a B? A C should be a failing grade.

 

[DrJD]

Sorry to parse one line out of your entire post, but isn't a passing grade at the graduate/professional level a B? A C should be a failing grade.

At Georgetown a "Pass" is equal to a "B" and a "Low Pass" is equal to a B-... I guess if you literally failed, that would probably be a C...

 

[nick_carraway]

Also, in one of my interviews (at VCU) my interviewer talked a bit about their SMP and told me that they expected their students to get A's. He said that was their only job during that year.

In my experience (and this is really just my two cents) an SMP is there to raise your GPA. If you subject yourself to another year or two of study because you have a sub-par GPA (for MD programs: somwhere around 2.8 - 3.5) and then again end up with a below-mediocre GPA, you either a) didn't improve your application or b) actually lowered your chances.

I have to say that I agree with VCU's logic. At Georgetown, at least, you take one med student class at a time (according to JD). If someone can pull off 5 or 6 As simultaneously in hardcore science classes at the undergrad level as an informal post-bacc, the adcom should be of the opinion that getting an A in a single med student course is do-able for determined students.

 

[DrJD]

I have to say that I agree with VCU's logic. At Georgetown, at least, you take one med student class at a time (according to JD). If someone can pull off 5 or 6 As simultaneously in hardcore science classes at the undergrad level as an informal post-bacc, the adcom should be of the opinion that getting an A in a single med student course is do-able for determined students.

I can tell you that even though technically every student in the G-town SMP should be able to get an A because we arent curved against ourselves, at most 15 to 17% of the class will actually get an A in the class.

And yes, I think ADCOMS do expect you to perform very well in the SMP because you aren't a med student who can just go with the whole P = MD thing, you have something to prove.

 

[bigserve99]

Sorry to parse one line out of your entire post, but isn't a passing grade at the graduate/professional level a B? A C should be a failing grade.

I think you are right about this. I'm not really sure how they handle it at this program because I don't know if it has come up at this program. I don't think anyone has got a C and I know we technically have to get at least a B average to graduate, as per the graduate school.

 

[bigserve99]

I have to say that I agree with VCU's logic. At Georgetown, at least, you take one med student class at a time (according to JD). If someone can pull off 5 or 6 As simultaneously in hardcore science classes at the undergrad level as an informal post-bacc, the adcom should be of the opinion that getting an A in a single med student course is do-able for determined students.

Just to throw it out there, at NYMC we take multiple M1 classes and grad classes at the same time, for example, M1 Physio, M1 Biochem, and Grad Biostats at same time. I'm not sure how the workload compares to a full undergrad schedule, but it's def. challenging.

 

[DrJD]

Just to throw it out there, at NYMC we take multiple M1 classes and grad classes at the same time, for example, M1 Physio, M1 Biochem, and Grad Biostats at same time. I'm not sure how the workload compares to a full undergrad schedule, but it's def. challenging.

Yea, it is deceiving if you say there is only one class at a time at Georgetown. That doesn't mean that there is the equivalent of one undergrad class or even the equivalent of just the Physio class at NYMC.

The took the Physio, Histology, Anatomy, etc. etc. and split it up into modules. So it doesn't mean less class, it just means that all of your class focuses on a theme.

 

[halekulani]

I don't buy that. I'm in the NYMC SMP now. We take every M1 course except for Anatomy and behavioral. To get an A in this program you have to place within the "Honor's" portion of the med school curve for the class. That's top 10%. A 3.5 says you honored half the classes and high passed the rest. (High Pass being the next 10 - 15% down and equivalent to a B). If you just passed, I believe it would be a C. Just because you score somewhat less than this.....meaning you get a 3.4 or 3.3 does not mean you did not do well. You still did better than 70 - 75 percent of an allopathic class.

you're there to prove you're above average. you aren't in medical school yet. prove that you deserve to be there by being better than everyone else.

 

[bigserve99]

you're there to prove you're above average. you aren't in medical school yet. prove that you deserve to be there by being better than everyone else.

Thanks for the reminder halekulani. However, I should point out that I am acutely aware that I am not in medical school. I remind myself of this every day. My goal is to do well....not just pass.