Question Post-Bacc grades...

[ravupadh]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I am currently a senior graduating in May. I am highly considering a Post-Bacc program to boost my GPA (3.48, Sci 3.20 and MCAT 26) and also take med school courses to hope for linkage. I want to apply to the NJMS Masters of Sciences program. I have a quick question however.

If I apply this June for the MD/PhD program at NJMS or any other med school, and thus will be "starting" med school in september of 2012 if I get accepted, how will the med schools know my Post-Bacc grades if my application will already have been sent in before I even start the Post-Bacc program? Will the fact that I'm making an effort to do a Post-Bacc program have any effect on my application? Basically, all I'm asking is if you don't get your first grades from the Post-Bacc program until December, and you've already sent in your application during the summer of the same year, why should I even do it? I don't want to take two years off, that's for sure.

 

[aSagacious]

If I apply this June for the MD/PhD program at NJMS or any other med school, and thus will be "starting" med school in september of 2012 if I get accepted, how will the med schools know my Post-Bacc grades if my application will already have been sent in before I even start the Post-Bacc program?

They won't see your grades, that's the reason that most post-bac students wait until they've completed the program to apply.

Will the fact that I'm making an effort to do a Post-Bacc program have any effect on my application?

It sure couldn't hurt (but it won't be a huge help).

Basically, all I'm asking is if you don't get your first grades from the Post-Bacc program until December, and you've already sent in your application during the summer of the same year, why should I even do it? I don't want to take two years off, that's for sure.

A word of general advice. The worst possible mindset to find yourself in while applying to med school is that everything needs to be rushed. We are all eager to get started, but too often students make tactical mistakes trying to sneak in a year early and it ends up costing them in the long run.

Not to be pessimistic, but even if you 4.0 your post-bac you are still a long-shot to any MD/PhD program with those stats, as they are exceedingly selective programs. If that is your long-term goal, I strongly consider retaking the MCAT (with ample preparation of course).

 

[ravupadh]

I wouldn't even dream of applying anywhere with a 26 haha! I'm definitely retaking the exam this June... I've already started studying and I'm shooting for a 35 as that seems to be the competitive range for the MD/PhD programs. I have 15 weeks and am only taking 3 credits for the research I'm doing right now. So I'm basically not enrolled in any actual classes.

I mean the way I see it, even if I do get in to an MD/Phd program in the upcoming cycle, I will still have a year left where I won't have anything to do. If I do this Post-Bacc program I can do linkage to transfer some credits to med school.

And if I don't get it, I'll have opportunity for research/grade advancement.

 

[aSagacious]

I know many post-bac programs allow you to continue on to a M.S. during your application year if you choose to wait. I don't see any harm in applying this year though (as long as you get the MCAT that you are aiming for).

Out of curiosity, have you taken the GRE yet? (...since many MD/PhD programs will require it)

 

[deleted248403]

As mentioned, with those grades you have next to no shot in hell of getting MD/PhD even with a 35 MCAT. Esp with a poor science GPA

I'd start looking into other avenues, or consider doign the PhD first and then apply if you really want the PhD and MD combo

 

[ravupadh]

I have not taken my GRE yet nor do I plan to apply to programs that require it.

As mentioned, with those grades you have next to no shot in hell of getting MD/PhD even with a 35 MCAT. Esp with a poor science GPA

I'd start looking into other avenues, or consider doign the PhD first and then apply if you really want the PhD and MD combo

Ouch, that's harsh. I think you should consider my other stats and research experience into consideration before making a judgement like that, especially since MD/PhD programs place much more emphasis on research:

GPA: 3.484 (Sci GPA: 3.22, Non Sci GPA: 4.00) (139 Credits with Biology/History Double Major)
MCAT: I am going to retake them on June 16th. I'm hoping for a 35/36 since I've started studying already and am placing much more emphasis on the physical sciences since that's what seems to be getting me.
Five Letters of Recommendation (2 Science, 1 Non-Science, 1 from Research Mentor, and 1 from DO Shadowing)
Volunteered at my local hospital for 6 months (4 hours per week.)
Shadowed an Osteopathic Primary Physician for 5 weeks (8 hours per week.)
Currently am shadowing a Vascular Surgeon at Robert Wood Johnson University Hospital (Hours Vary Weekly)
Have been conducting research on the evolution of dinoflagellate toxicity at a laboratory I'm currently employed (20 hours per week since June 2010. Have done a poster already and am currently writing a paper with first authorship.)

Furthermore I've seen GPA ranges as big as 3.3-4.0 for some successful applicants on this forum. So I am planning on applying in the upcoming cycle to 10-15 programs in my area and am hoping to get into at least one. I mean, I am going to finish the application process in July after I get my scores back, so I'll probably have a good advantage.

 

[deleted248403]

I don't think its harsh.

As you said, MD/PhD place a strong emphasis on research and science; your science GPA isnt very good, and your initial MCAT isnt very good. Both of these are big red flags.

Something like the 5% of MCAT takers get a 35+; everyone thinks they are in this group, very few actually are.

In terms of MD/PhD - no-one cares about your shadowing, sad to say but true. The research you are doing sounds good and will def help.

I'm just trying to be realistic. MD/PhD is more competitive than MD alone, and right now you are just about competitive for MD provided you improve your MCAT to 30+.

I don't think its a stretch to say you ought to look at other approaches to having an MD and PHD given your poor sGPA and poor MCAT. Neither of these seem to indicate you will do well in PhD level sciences. I hope you prove me wrong and get in, but just think about what the typical accepted MD/PhD has and how your application (currently) differs from theirs...

 

[ravupadh]

Well I am definitely going to retake the exam and I have 15 weeks of studying with no classes, so I am AT LEAST expecting a 30+. I was under the impression they would only look at the higher score.

In terms of my Sci GPA, it was really problems I was having in freshmen year of college that killed me. I didn't get any Fs, but I didn't get any A's either. Furthermore, after freshmen year I consistently got an A or a B (lowest) in upper level biology courses such as biochem (A), microbiology (A), evolution (A) etc. So I do have massive improvement on my transcript. I mean, I understand where you are coming from but I don't think it hurts to just apply and see what will happen, especially since many schools just put you in the regular pool of applicants anyway if you don't get accepted to the dual degree program.

I would apply for a PhD program and MD program separately except for the fact that (A) It'll cost more and (B) it'll take much more time. I really love doing hard scientific research so I am going to pursue this as much as I can.

 

[deleted248403]

Go for it - it doesn't hurt; just don't get your hopes too high.

I def see why its unattractive to do a PhD than MD; i just threw it out there depending on how much you wanted the MD.

Schools differ on which MCAT they look at - some will look at only the highest, others look at both, some average them together (Jefferson for example). its hard to know which school does what as they don't really reveal it so you kinda have to assume worst-case scenario in my mind - i like the logic, prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

At least a 30 is the 75-80%. I'm not saying you can't do it, but its no cake walk to get a 30.
https://www.aamc.org/students/download/85332/data/combined08.pdf

 

[ravupadh]

Thank you for your constructive critcism. I'm not hoping for a miracle but I feel if I apply to 10-20 programs beginning in June, finished in July, I will hopefully get accepted into at least one program. Even if I do get in, I'm still planning to do a Post-Bacc program (Master of Sciences at NJMS) to have something to do for the year I'll be taking off. I would travel, but my bank account is not exactly on the high end.

I really do want the MD because I want to spend *some* time, even if it is minute, treating patients.

In terms of the MCAT, I'm really surprised that schools would average grades even if you took the exam years apart. I'll have to look more into that.

In terms of the score, as I said I have a solid pathway planned out until June 16th. I have all the ExamKracker books + Practice Questions + AAMC Practice Exams. With 15 weeks of studying I better get above a 30, especially since I'm just doing 20 hours of research a week with no classes this semester.