Question regarding Letters of Rec from previous work

[okyeah]

Hi all,

I have a question. I am likely unable to get solid letters of recommendation for about 2-3 years worth of work experience I had while working as a technician. I was working in manufacturing and my managers in 2 jobs during that time disliked me very much. They essentially just used me as labor while making sure to not go beyond anything more than that. Manufacturing is not a nice line of work, usually run by gangs of good ol' boys, and the first company I worked for essentially was an auto parts factory that had abysmal work conditions and management (they basically exploited their workers). I managed to get promoted in that job without even applying for it though, and I worked my ass off delivering high quality work. Despite this, the manager has refused to write me any reference whatsoever, and the factory refuses to do anything to help me. They even cut me loose immediately when I put in my 2 weeks with them (they did this with multiple employees).

My next position I was only there very briefly and got another position that allowed me to return to school.

The problem is that this work was very important to me and was definitely a crucial experience I had in my career path. I would definitely need to discuss these positions in an interview I think.


What should I do?

My plan was to just get 2 science profs LORs and I have 2 contacts that are MDs willing to write me letters as well as a doctor I plan to shadow. I'm guessing it's okay to just avoid anything regarding the management in these jobs and just speak to my experience in a med school interview?

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[petomed]

Are you able to gage how far in the past the negative experiences and subsequent lack of LORs will be at the time of application? If it’ll be at the five year mark I’d say it’s completely irrelevant. If it’s before you committed to the path of medical school, also irrelevant. If you’re able to get 2 academic + 2 MD/DO + 1 volunteer coordinator/supervisor LORs—also an utterly moot point.

What IS very important is that your experiences during the meat of your journey to applying to medical school substantiate strongly the person demonstrated on your actual application. The absence of a single or two LORs from a relatively long premed/postbac wouldn’t necessarily concern me as long as the LORs you do provide are solid.

And if you do find yourself discussing those positions in an interview, you’ve got a lot of opportunity to reframe what you posted here. I’m certain it was a volatile environment and for numerous reasons wasn’t a good fit for you or for most others. However, the money is in the ability to turn all those negatives into introspection, empathy, and appreciation for the experience. After all, those jobs led you to where you are today. Further, you’re guaranteed to find very similar environments in medicine. It’s unfortunate, but nowhere is exempt from the good’ol boys club…

My two cents anyway.

 

[okyeah]

@petomed I could tell you the timeline. Graduated in 2018 with a useless Human Physiology degree and a chronic medical condition I was coping with. Struggled severely (parents don't really help) for awhile....Got numerous nerve ablations in my lower back which finally helped the nerve pain I had. Just picked up the job at random on indeed.com for money to get ANYTHING on my resume as far as experience. Job helped me lose a lot of weight and get in very good physical shape - which further abated chronic pain thankfully. They exploited me to the point, however, they forced me to work instead of letting me do easier work with accommodations (was experiencing back spasms and pain again). I decided to quit and went to another place that paid better with easier work.

I would have zero problems framing this positively...I did an extreme amount of work for these people so there is a lot of positive stuff to say. Especially because I have essentially been setup as a mini-manager for no extra pay everywhere I have gone, which counts for leadership experience.

And yeah...I'm not naive to it, I'm sure a lot of that happens in medicine too. I'm sure I will be able to tolerate it though if I am a literal doctor.

 

[PandaBaer]

This sounds unrelated to your application, you can just leave it off and/or have a short explanation saying you were working. The "bonus" you would get from framing this in a positive light seems minimal compared to all the additional things it would dredge up.

 

[okyeah]

This sounds unrelated to your application, you can just leave it off and/or have a short explanation saying you were working. The "bonus" you would get from framing this in a positive light seems minimal compared to all the additional things it would dredge up.

I doubt I can leave it off. I had 3 technician jobs since graduating college. Each one can be considered leadership experience. They will certainly want to know what I was doing for 4 years. I doubt those companies will defame me though. TBH I would have to contact lawyers if one of them decided to do that. None of them will do anything because managers' and HR's goal is to de-escalate and prevent lawsuits. These types of jobs are absolute ****shows... The first place I worked couldn't keep people even if they wanted to. I feel admissions wouldn't hold it against me if they somehow decide to look into it.

My application is pretty positive overall as well, as far as other things I've done, so if someone tries to screw me over it's going to be obvious. In fact - it's on record somewhere that the first franchise tried to screw me over and was forced to pay me for ignoring my 2 weeks that I gave them when I had to leave.

 

[Curlywhirly1]

I had a similar experience with my manufacturing-based job. I spun it in a positive way in my application and interviews, and didn't get LoRs from that job even though it was 4 years of my life and very much shaped who I am.

I got 2 academic LoRs from my recent post-bacc that were admittedly weak but mandatory, 2 more academic LoRs from grad school profs that were decent but probably on the weaker side because it has been a decade, and one strong LoR from an MD mentor.

I really do think it's about the story you tell. And at a certain point it is what it is with LoRs...I was also worried about my LoRs and know I lucked out with the one, strong letter from my MD mentor.

But I wouldn't get any LoRs that may potentially point out red flags. Applying is hard enough as it is...

 

[okyeah]

I had a similar experience with my manufacturing-based job. I spun it in a positive way in my application and interviews, and didn't get LoRs from that job even though it was 4 years of my life and very much shaped who I am.

I got 2 academic LoRs from my recent post-bacc that were admittedly weak but mandatory, 2 more academic LoRs from grad school profs that were decent but probably on the weaker side because it has been a decade, and one strong LoR from an MD mentor.

I really do think it's about the story you tell. And at a certain point it is what it is with LoRs...I was also worried about my LoRs and know I lucked out with the one, strong letter from my MD mentor.

But I wouldn't get any LoRs that may potentially point out red flags. Applying is hard enough as it is...

Wow thanks for sharing that…I also wasted about 4 years of my life in that industry. I will never go back, I only had to do that stuff to get my feet under me after graduating.

Glad to see things worked out for you.

I’m planning on joining a research lab as I re-enter for my post-bacc so I’m banking on contributing enough in 3 years for a very strong LoR from that.

 

[Stuaccount]

Hi all,

I have a question. I am likely unable to get solid letters of recommendation for about 2-3 years worth of work experience I had while working as a technician. I was working in manufacturing and my managers in 2 jobs during that time disliked me very much. They essentially just used me as labor while making sure to not go beyond anything more than that. Manufacturing is not a nice line of work, usually run by gangs of good ol' boys, and the first company I worked for essentially was an auto parts factory that had abysmal work conditions and management (they basically exploited their workers). I managed to get promoted in that job without even applying for it though, and I worked my ass off delivering high quality work. Despite this, the manager has refused to write me any reference whatsoever, and the factory refuses to do anything to help me. They even cut me loose immediately when I put in my 2 weeks with them (they did this with multiple employees).

My next position I was only there very briefly and got another position that allowed me to return to school.

The problem is that this work was very important to me and was definitely a crucial experience I had in my career path. I would definitely need to discuss these positions in an interview I think.


What should I do?

My plan was to just get 2 science profs LORs and I have 2 contacts that are MDs willing to write me letters as well as a doctor I plan to shadow. I'm guessing it's okay to just avoid anything regarding the management in these jobs and just speak to my experience in a med school interview?

when you are ready to apply, the AMCAS application form will have a major section that covers your work and activities in mini essay format. It will also ask you to pick 3 of your most meaningful activities and write a slightly longer essay on it. You can choose to talk about it in those sections and discuss why it was important to you ( hopefully in a positive way). You don’t need a LoR. Screen for schools that require a LoR from supervisors (I believe there are a couple). Make a list of the schools you are interested in applying to and check their LoR requirements. Only a few schools have stringent requirements. For most your current plan will work. A bonus if you can include a LoR from a volunteering position.