Question regarding MD/DDS

[EdwardKim]

Hello,

I had a quick question regarding OMFS's that were single degreed DDS surgeons.

Could they apply to receive their additional MD degree if they wanted to at different institution than where they got their OMFS DDS degree?

If so, how hard is it to go through this process, and has anyone gone through this?

Thank you so much in advance.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[cresophene]

Hello,

I had a quick question regarding OMFS's that were single degreed DDS surgeons.

Could they apply to receive their additional MD degree if they wanted to at different institution than where they got their OMFS DDS degree?

If so, how hard is it to go through this process, and has anyone gone through this?

Thank you so much in advance.

Dont think so. Usually you gain acceptance to the medical school + OMFS at the same time.

I guess after or before OMFS residency you could apply to a different school and do a MD ..but then you're just sticking yourself with 2 extra years of school.

 

[armorshell]

There's a few medical schools out there that will give advanced standing to an OMFS, however, most of them are 3 years of med school, not 2 (But I think 1 or 2 offer a 2 year track).

But you also have to remember that you won't have an ACGME accredited year of residency form your 4 year OMS training, so you'll have to do an additional year of residency after you finish medical school to accredit your degree (and thus be allowed to advertise/utilize it)

So you'd be wasting 1-3 additional years over the 6 year OMS/MD track

 

[ItsGavinC]

Hello,

I had a quick question regarding OMFS's that were single degreed DDS surgeons.

Could they apply to receive their additional MD degree if they wanted to at different institution than where they got their OMFS DDS degree?

If so, how hard is it to go through this process, and has anyone gone through this?

Thank you so much in advance.

And, I would assume, there would be very little demand for anything like this. Having an MD is a huge deal to pre-health profession students. Once they graduate and enter the real world the mindset shifts to the fact that largely nobody cares. Doctors are often treated like crap, and for most there would be no benefit of having an MD behind their names. It might help in academics. Your mileage may vary.

 

[EdwardKim]

Thank you very much for all your insights!

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

It helps a TON for academics and fellowships.

 

[servitup]

And, I would assume, there would be very little demand for anything like this. Having an MD is a huge deal to pre-health profession students. Once they graduate and enter the real world the mindset shifts to the fact that largely nobody cares. Doctors are often treated like crap, and for most there would be no benefit of having an MD behind their names. It might help in academics. Your mileage may vary.

Very uninformed post here.

1. Plenty of people care.
2. There are a number of reasons to get an MD beyond what other people think about it.
3. Only someone who has gone to medical school can really comment on its value.
4. A prominent oral surgeon who did residency and fellowship and practiced before going back to get his MD told me medical school literally changed everything about the way he approaches patient care and made him a much better oral surgeon.

 

[GTFOOMICT]

The answer to your question is:

MD/DDS < 1

 

[EdwardKim]

The answer to your question is:

MD/DDS < 1

Thank you for your posts, Dr's.

What do you mean by this comment? I don't understand...

 

[CanuckDDS]

Very uninformed post here.

1. Plenty of people care.
2. There are a number of reasons to get an MD beyond what other people think about it.
3. Only someone who has gone to medical school can really comment on its value.
4. A prominent oral surgeon who did residency and fellowship and practiced before going back to get his MD told me medical school literally changed everything about the way he approaches patient care and made him a much better oral surgeon.

I agree servitup. Normally Gavin's posts are insightful and informed but I completely agree with your 4 points.

I think people do care. Rightly or wrongly.

The MD allows you to insight into what MD's know/don't know and call them on their BS (in a hospital setting). In private practice, may not matter much...

MD=flexibility

 

[dcshus]

Very uninformed post here.

1. Plenty of people care.
2. There are a number of reasons to get an MD beyond what other people think about it.
3. Only someone who has gone to medical school can really comment on its value.
4. A prominent oral surgeon who did residency and fellowship and practiced before going back to get his MD told me medical school literally changed everything about the way he approaches patient care and made him a much better oral surgeon.

Did this prominent oral surgeon get his medical degree from Antigua?

 

[servitup]

Did this prominent oral surgeon get his medical degree from Antigua?

Nope. Got it here in the US, then did a year of general surgery (all as a fellowship trained oral surgeon).

 

[ObviousGuy]

I agree servitup. Normally Gavin's posts are insightful and informed but I completely agree with your 4 points.

I think people do care. Rightly or wrongly.

The MD allows you to insight into what MD's know/don't know and call them on their BS (in a hospital setting). In private practice, may not matter much...

MD=flexibility

I think both of you are right. Beware the blanket statements. We call MD's out on their B.S. all the time at my program, (4 yr). In the minds of some at our hospital though we are looked at as inferior. It depends on the MD and his experience with OMFS.
Does the MD help with pure medical knowledge? Of course. Do you need it for respect at the hospital? Depends on who you are working with. At our program all anesthesia peeps love us. I can think of a few guys on other services who think poorly of us, that we have no right in the OR, regardless of MD or not. They view us as dentists, pure and simple. When they come through the OR and we have a coronal turned we make comments like - is that crown ready? Screw them. Why do they care? Because our life is awesome after residency.
What it boils down to, and this is a recurrent trend on SDN, is that you do what you want. Fly under the radar, let those who let it get to them, get to them.

The area I plan on practicing at does not care what the credentials are behind your name. They care that you will take care of the hospital patients that come in on your call, they care that the 5 implants they have sent to you are easy to restore, they care that you don't cause paresthesia, they care that the double jaw comes out looking like brad pitt, and if you have someone who comes in with 10 co-morbidities, well, you send them to their PCP for a med con and you make sure they are stable and labs are all normal.
Fortunately I go to a program where we see sickies all day long. No big deal.

PERSONALLY, I don't need an MD to do this. OTHERS may want it. That is their prerogative, and I commend them for it. I hope we can have many intelligent study clubs together in the future.

 

[GTFOOMICT]

Very uninformed post here.

1. Plenty of people care.
2. There are a number of reasons to get an MD beyond what other people think about it.
3. Only someone who has gone to medical school can really comment on its value.
4. A prominent oral surgeon who did residency and fellowship and practiced before going back to get his MD told me medical school literally changed everything about the way he approaches patient care and made him a much better oral surgeon.

I'm in my med school years right now and still not quite seeing how it will impact my patient care now that I'll add the MD 'knowledge'. Looking at my dental school classmates who are at 4 year programs who are actually treating patients on medicine as pgy1, on anesthesia as pgy1, on trauma as pgy 1, etc, makes me wonder even more. I however don't have the hindsight like yourself and others who have been through it already. I'm 99% dentist and 1% surgeon as of now.

On a side note, nothing can ruin the stamina and forward momentum of dental school like a few months in med school.

 

[CanuckDDS]

I think both of you are right. Beware the blanket statements. We call MD's out on their B.S. all the time at my program, (4 yr). In the minds of some at our hospital though we are looked at as inferior. It depends on the MD and his experience with OMFS.
Does the MD help with pure medical knowledge? Of course. Do you need it for respect at the hospital? Depends on who you are working with. At our program all anesthesia peeps love us. I can think of a few guys on other services who think poorly of us, that we have no right in the OR, regardless of MD or not. They view us as dentists, pure and simple. When they come through the OR and we have a coronal turned we make comments like - is that crown ready? Screw them. Why do they care? Because our life is awesome after residency.
What it boils down to, and this is a recurrent trend on SDN, is that you do what you want. Fly under the radar, let those who let it get to them, get to them.

The area I plan on practicing at does not care what the credentials are behind your name. They care that you will take care of the hospital patients that come in on your call, they care that the 5 implants they have sent to you are easy to restore, they care that you don't cause paresthesia, they care that the double jaw comes out looking like brad pitt, and if you have someone who comes in with 10 co-morbidities, well, you send them to their PCP for a med con and you make sure they are stable and labs are all normal.
Fortunately I go to a program where we see sickies all day long. No big deal.

PERSONALLY, I don't need an MD to do this. OTHERS may want it. That is their prerogative, and I commend them for it. I hope we can have many intelligent study clubs together in the future.

Freakin funny

All good points OG! Thx for that.

 

[servitup]

Looking at my dental school classmates who are at 4 year programs who are actually treating patients on medicine as pgy1, on anesthesia as pgy1, on trauma as pgy 1, etc, makes me wonder even more.

Being the "dental resident" on medicine, surgery, etc. is WAY different than being the general surgery resident after medical school. If your program has an OMFS intern year prior to med school you will see a ridiculous difference between you post-med school and pre-med school.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Very uninformed post here.

1. Plenty of people care.
2. There are a number of reasons to get an MD beyond what other people think about it.
3. Only someone who has gone to medical school can really comment on its value.
4. A prominent oral surgeon who did residency and fellowship and practiced before going back to get his MD told me medical school literally changed everything about the way he approaches patient care and made him a much better oral surgeon.

1. Usually nobody cares except for academics. General dentists don't refer to you based on whether you have an MD or not. Finding a job with an MD as an OMFS probably isn't any easier than without one.

2. What other reasons? If you want to make yourself feel better, then you can, but in the REAL WORLD of practicing OMFS it doesn't matter much. It probably matters if you want to do cosmetics or something other than strict OMFS. For a bread and butter OMFS private practice, my good friends say the MD would have only added to the years they weren't making money.

3. That's what I'm basing my posts on. The discussions I've had with the MD OMFS that I refer to. I refer to them because of proximity to patient location, not because they have an MD.

4. Your buddy is entitled to his feelings about the subject, as our my friends.

My point, which I probably didn't articulate well, is that premed/predent students think the MD is the saving grace of mankind and will make them rich beyond their wildest dreams. That's hogwash. OMFS is a tremendous specialty full of talented surgeons in their own right.

 

[servitup]

1. Usually nobody cares except for academics. General dentists don't refer to you based on whether you have an MD or not. Finding a job with an MD as an OMFS probably isn't any easier than without one.

2. What other reasons? If you want to make yourself feel better, then you can, but in the REAL WORLD of practicing OMFS it doesn't matter much. It probably matters if you want to do cosmetics or something other than strict OMFS. For a bread and butter OMFS private practice, my good friends say the MD would have only added to the years they weren't making money.

3. That's what I'm basing my posts on. The discussions I've had with the MD OMFS that I refer to. I refer to them because of proximity to patient location, not because they have an MD.

4. Your buddy is entitled to his feelings about the subject, as our my friends.

My point, which I probably didn't articulate well, is that premed/predent students think the MD is the saving grace of mankind and will make them rich beyond their wildest dreams. That's hogwash. OMFS is a tremendous specialty full of talented surgeons in their own right.

1. Some care. Some don't. Jobs are easy to find regardless and all OMFS make good money.

2. Other reasons to include: better understanding of medicine, ability to rebuff political challenges to scope of practice, personal opinion as to the usefulness, marketing - patients love it, demographics in your community, etc.

3. 99% of dual degree surgeons downplay the MD when asked about it by one of their non-MD dental colleagues. They know what you want to hear.

4. True.

I am not saying the MD is the end all, I was simply saying that your very strongly worded indictment of the MD was misinformed.

 

[DREDAY]

1. Some care. Some don't. Jobs are easy to find regardless and all OMFS make good money.

2. Other reasons to include: better understanding of medicine, ability to rebuff political challenges to scope of practice, personal opinion as to the usefulness, marketing - patients love it, demographics in your community, etc.

3. 99% of dual degree surgeons downplay the MD when asked about it by one of their non-MD dental colleagues. They know what you want to hear.

4. True.

I am not saying the MD is the end all, I was simply saying that your very strongly worded indictment of the MD was misinformed.

 

[ItsGavinC]

2. Other reasons to include: better understanding of medicine, ability to rebuff political challenges to scope of practice, personal opinion as to the usefulness, marketing - patients love it, demographics in your community, etc.

Rebuff political challenges? Through what, the AMA? The AMA doesn't care a lick about it's physican members. Patients love it? Really? How so?

3. 99% of dual degree surgeons downplay the MD when asked about it by one of their non-MD dental colleagues. They know what you want to hear.

This comment doesn't make sense to me. I'd assume the same is true when they are speaking to their MD colleagues. Are they also downplaying the dental degree that led them to OMFS?

My comments may have been lopsided, but they are taken from my personal experiences as well as my last 10 years on SDN where current dual-degree residents have largely made fun of their MD curriculums and graduated OMFS have pointed out that the degree doesn't add much to their practice experience.

 

[servitup]

Rebuff political challenges? Through what, the AMA? The AMA doesn't care a lick about it's physican members. Patients love it? Really? How so?



This comment doesn't make sense to me. I'd assume the same is true when they are speaking to their MD colleagues. Are they also downplaying the dental degree that led them to OMFS?

My comments may have been lopsided, but they are taken from my personal experiences as well as my last 10 years on SDN where current dual-degree residents have largely made fun of their MD curriculums and graduated OMFS have pointed out that the degree doesn't add much to their practice experience.

1. RE: Political challenges - There are physicians out there who would seek to limit the scope of OMFS. As of right now, a medical degree and specifically a medical license mean that discrimination based on degree would not apply.

2. When patients find out their oral surgeon has an MD, they like it. Don't know what else to tell you about that one.

3. Yes. Most of us do downplay the dental degree to our MD colleagues because it would be inappropriate to rub in their faces that we make the same amount of money for 4 third molars as they do for major lifesaving operations. Your point about us making fun of the MD is confirmatory of my previous point that we downplay the MD. Remember this, though. We CHOSE to give up 2 years of our lives to go to med school. Clearly, that would imply we made a judgment about its value.

 

[flapaTron]

We CHOSE to give up 2 years of our lives to go to med school.

well, it's not like you're walking away empty handed. 2 years for an MD has got to be the best deal in professional school in the history of good-deals-in-professional-school.

 

[ItsGavinC]

1. RE: Political challenges - There are physicians out there who would seek to limit the scope of OMFS. As of right now, a medical degree and specifically a medical license mean that discrimination based on degree would not apply.

2. When patients find out their oral surgeon has an MD, they like it. Don't know what else to tell you about that one.

3. Yes. Most of us do downplay the dental degree to our MD colleagues because it would be inappropriate to rub in their faces that we make the same amount of money for 4 third molars as they do for major lifesaving operations. Your point about us making fun of the MD is confirmatory of my previous point that we downplay the MD. Remember this, though. We CHOSE to give up 2 years of our lives to go to med school. Clearly, that would imply we made a judgment about its value.

Good post. I stand corrected on many of those points.