I am done with my ROL and two on my programs require a preliminary year. I am ranking a total of 12 programs in EM and interviewd at 3 places for the preliminary position. My deans office told me that after I rank all my EM programs I should include the preliminary positions at the end as #13,14,15 respectively. They said I should put them both on my main ROL as well as in the supplemental list. They explained that if don't match in any of my EM programs at least I could probably match in a preliminary position; however, the NRMP website states that if you don't match in any program in your main ROL it will then go to the supplemental list. So what is the point of listing them twice? Should I only list preliminary programs on the supplemental list. That would suck to get an e-mail March 17 saying that I successfully matched to later find out that it was only for the preliminary position. I will be going to my deans office to clarify this issues but any input will be appreciated. Thanks
Question regarding PGY2-4 and preliminary positions
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here's the deal... from what i recall from the match several years ago...
and read carefully b/c right now i think you have some bad info from your deans which could screw up your match list
EM is one of the few specialties where there is 2 different tracks (straight vs. PGY2-4 format)
so, if you applied to PGY 2-4 programs, when you rank one of them, it will come with a supplemental rank list (for you to rank a PGY 1 program)... this supplemental list can be different for each PGY2-4 program. for instance, you applied to both BMC and Lincoln and you interviewed at a prelim in Boston and one in NYC. You would rather not move again. so when you rank BMC, your supplemental list would have PGY 1#1 choice as boston and then PGY 1, #2 choice as nyc.
you should only rank the prelim programs at the end of your match list if you would RATHER go into a prelim medicine track then try to scramble for an EM spot....
b/c if by some strange twist of fate you don't match at your top 12 choices, if you were left unmatched on "scramble" day... you would get a chance to scramble into an EM spot.
if you place a prelim spot 13/14/or 15th, you will likely match into one of them and then you will NOT be able to scramble into anything except for possibly an open PGY 2-4 program (which there are many fewer) ... you would have to do a year of prelim medicine and then reapply during that year...
if you do go the above route and rank the prelim spots 13 thru 15... and that's all you matched into... you will be notified on March 17th that you only have a PGY 1 spot-- you will however, NOT be allowed to scramble into a PGY1-3 or PGY 1-4 EM spot...
i would NOT rank the prelim spots on the main list (only supplemental list for the EM PGY 2-4 programs).... b/c even if you are unmatched and can't scramble for an EM spot, there will still likely be open prelim/categorical medicine spots... and you would be no worse off...
not to sound too critical but it's sad if the deans are giving you bad advice... unfortunately the match is a bit confusing and i got my best explanation regarding ranking prelims with PGY2-4 programs b/c i rotated at a PGY2-4 place as a medical student and was explained the above by the program directors at a PGY2-4 place...
and read carefully b/c right now i think you have some bad info from your deans which could screw up your match list
EM is one of the few specialties where there is 2 different tracks (straight vs. PGY2-4 format)
so, if you applied to PGY 2-4 programs, when you rank one of them, it will come with a supplemental rank list (for you to rank a PGY 1 program)... this supplemental list can be different for each PGY2-4 program. for instance, you applied to both BMC and Lincoln and you interviewed at a prelim in Boston and one in NYC. You would rather not move again. so when you rank BMC, your supplemental list would have PGY 1#1 choice as boston and then PGY 1, #2 choice as nyc.
you should only rank the prelim programs at the end of your match list if you would RATHER go into a prelim medicine track then try to scramble for an EM spot....
b/c if by some strange twist of fate you don't match at your top 12 choices, if you were left unmatched on "scramble" day... you would get a chance to scramble into an EM spot.
if you place a prelim spot 13/14/or 15th, you will likely match into one of them and then you will NOT be able to scramble into anything except for possibly an open PGY 2-4 program (which there are many fewer) ... you would have to do a year of prelim medicine and then reapply during that year...
if you do go the above route and rank the prelim spots 13 thru 15... and that's all you matched into... you will be notified on March 17th that you only have a PGY 1 spot-- you will however, NOT be allowed to scramble into a PGY1-3 or PGY 1-4 EM spot...
i would NOT rank the prelim spots on the main list (only supplemental list for the EM PGY 2-4 programs).... b/c even if you are unmatched and can't scramble for an EM spot, there will still likely be open prelim/categorical medicine spots... and you would be no worse off...
not to sound too critical but it's sad if the deans are giving you bad advice... unfortunately the match is a bit confusing and i got my best explanation regarding ranking prelims with PGY2-4 programs b/c i rotated at a PGY2-4 place as a medical student and was explained the above by the program directors at a PGY2-4 place...
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this i'm not sure about...
my understanding is that they will only use your supplemental list if you happen to match in a PGY2-4 program from your main ROL
i think if you don't match on your main ROL, you then scramble....
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I disagree with Jazz. I am in the same position with Lincoln on my ROL. Still, after all of my EM ranks I put down 4 other prelim IM spots. My reasoning is that if you don't match EM then the chances of you scrambling into EM is really small (I think there was 5 or 6 spots in the whole country last year after match). So I will try to avoid the scramble if possible and so that is my reasoning why you should think about ranking your prelims after the EM spots. Worst case scenario is that you don't match EM, then most likely you will not scramble for EM and have to scramble for IM prelim spot. Now, wouldn't it be better to just face the music, avoid the match and rank prelim spots because in the end you will be doing a prelim year in IM. Still hopefully we all match EM and don't have to face the scramble.
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Or, you can have a rude awakening come match day when you open up your envelope and see you've matched in one of the prelim spots when all along, you probably thought you matched into one of your EM spots. This is why I didn't rank my prelim interviews in my main list.
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that's a personal choice you'll have to make -- whether or not you would rather try and scramble for EM vs just take a prelim spot in medicine.
the fact is that if you rank enough programs this will most likely not even happen to you.
but the OP should be aware that if you do rank the prelim med programs at the bottom of the list and you match into that, you will not be able to scramble for EM spots (with the exception of unfilled PGY2-4 spots -- which are even fewer and far in between)
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i thought if you ranked a prelim/transitional at the bottom of your list, if you matched there and only there it would say "congratulations, you have matched into a one year position" or something of that sort.
if i'm wrong here, someone let me know since i have a transitional at the bottom of my list and don't wanna get a nasty surprise on march 20.
Read in the NRMP website under FAQ. There is a short section that talks about possible outcomes. That was what led me to post my original question in the first place.
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I think it just says you have matched.
Also I didnt rank any of the prelim programs in my main list because I didnt want to not have a chance to scramble into an EM. If you dont rank in your main ROL, then it will probably be hard to get an EM spot and it will also be hard to find a prelim med/surg spot too (one that is in an ideal locations and place for you), but I'd just rather have that chance to still get in EM.
But nothing wrong with Dmitry opinion too, so its more of a personal thing.
