question regarding residency?

[Smooth Operater]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hello guys! I don't know much on medical education, hope you guys can enlight me.

I am wondering is it a MUST for every med grads to enroll in a residency else they can't practice medicine at all? Are there any specializations that require no residency?

How many years do residency usually last?

Why do I sometimes hear time in residency is just as stressful as time in medical schools? I thought grads are able to do what they want in residency except getting lower pay?

Thanks guys!

 

[mikedc813]

There is a hierarchy in medicine and residents are seen by doctors as being at the bottom of the totem pole. So being a resident isn't the same as being a normal practicing doc in that sense.

 

[WatchingWaiting]

Hello guys! I don't know much on medical education, hope you guys can enlight me.

I am wondering is it a MUST for every med grads to enroll in a residency else they can't practice medicine at all? Are there any specializations that require no residency?

How many years do residency usually last?

Why do I sometimes hear time in residency is just as stressful as time in medical schools? I thought grads are able to do what they want in residency except getting lower pay?

Thanks guys!

In a nutshell, one year of internship (internship = first year of residency) is required to become a licensed physician in any state. After that one year (and passage of the United States Medical Licensing Exam, Step III, the USMLE), you are a licensed physician and can practice medicine (write prescriptions and independently see and provide full medical care to patients). You are termed a "general practitioner." Traditionally (forty years ago), this was what most physicians were.

Today, however, it is expected and pretty much unheard of to practice medicine without actually doing a full residency. The shortest residency you can get is three years (including the internship year) in primary care fields, such as family practice or internal medicine. Other fields have a considerably longer potential residency. For example, general surgery or radiology are five years, whereas neurosurgery is generally six to seven years. Even if you do the "primary care" internal medicine, probably half or so of those people choose to do a fellowship, for example, cardiology or nephrology or gastroenterology. These vary from one to three years on top of residency and are fairly similar in structure to residency.

During residency, you generally work quite hard; theoretically, no more than 80 hours a week by recently passed fiat, for $35,000-$50,000 a year, starting out at the lower end of that range and having a $2,000 or so increment in salary for each year of completed residency. Residency is in part a training period, when you actually figure out how to safely and effectively practice a particular field of medicine, and partly a period of performing useful, but educationally limited value, labor ("scut work") for the hospital, which is why most residencies have entailed 80-120 hours a week of work instead of the 40-60 hours a week that would be enough to actually learn your field.

 

[Smooth Operater]

Hello guys! thank you for the reply!

I see myself working in a primary care environment in the future, so surgery is off my list. That's b/c I can' t handle the pressue that a valuable human life on my hand. I don't mind which primary care specialization I do as long I have passion about it and yet it still provides stable working schedule (i.e no calling at night). Ultimately, I want to operate my own private practice. It seems MD's have to scarfices so much to reach their goals. That's why I really respect them.

But, it's not the prestige lable, MD, that I am looking for. I want to do something that offer health service to ppl, yet I still have some time to myself to pursure other interests and raise a family. Is it a good reason to start looking for other health profession like Dentistry and Optometry?


any comments?

 

[JennaK]

You ll HAVE to complete a residency to become a M.D. and there is no way that you'll have a life during that time. In fact you'll almost literally be living there. This is the only way to get into this profession at the title you want. I don't know anything of the D.O. program or what that is, maybe others do though. It might be a shorter residency , but I have no idea

 

[bobo]

You ll HAVE to complete a residency to become a M.D. and there is no way that you'll have a life during that time. In fact you'll almost literally be living there. This is the only way to get into this profession at the title you want. I don't know anything of the D.O. program or what that is, maybe others do though. It might be a shorter residency , but I have no idea

Quite possibly this is the stupidest post/er in the history of SDN. Clueless premed.

 

[JennaK]

Who's Clueless?me?

 

[JennaK]

If Iam wrong please educate me otherwise. I know for a fact my nephew and g-friend are ALWAYS at the hospital. She says she goes home and is right back in when she wakes up the next morning. Somehow, I depict that as no life and especially one with having kids etc. I also have been told many times my the pre-med advisor this same thing. I guesse maybe she too should get a new job based on the latest news of M.D. students having a life after they graduate

 

[MoosePilot]

Who's Clueless?me?

I believe that's what's being said, yes. You don't have to do a residency to be an M.D. You just have to finish 4 years of medical school for that. Upon graduation you're an M.D. Residency is customary prior to practicing medicine, but some don't do more than an internship.

 

[JennaK]

Well heck if I can practice without residency I will surely make it a point to ask the pre-med advisor how come she keeps stressing otherwise. A shorter time would be real nice instead of 4 years of residency

 

[MoosePilot]

Well heck if I can practice without residency I will surely make it a point to ask the pre-med advisor how come she keeps stressing otherwise. A shorter time would be real nice instead of 4 years of residency

Like an earlier poster said, it's unusual to practice without a residency, but definitely possible. The Navy has a lot of GMOs (general medical officers) who complete a wide ranging intern year and then practice independently. All residencies aren't 4 years either 🙂

 

[JennaK]

I just talk to my nephew. Perhaps I worded it badly as I didn't mean you couldn't be a M.D. exactly you just cannot practice on your own until you complete residency. Which basically means for what the poster wants to do is not possible without finishing the full spectrum of the path to a independant physician. I would normally apologize,but hardly does my above statement make me stupid as for the past 2 years my 3.7 GPA is not shabby at all since I came back to school after 10 years.

 

[JennaK]

Moosepilot, thank you for the info. It was a respectable way to correct me at least.🙂

 

[MoosePilot]

I just talk to my nephew. Perhaps I worded it badly as I didn't mean you couldn't be a M.D. exactly you just cannot practice on your own until you complete residency. Which basically means for what the poster wants to do is not possible without finishing the full spectrum of the path to a independant physician. I would normally apologize,but hardly does my above statement make me stupid as for the past 2 years my 3.7 GPA is not shabby at all since I came back to school after 10 years.

The earlier poster said stupidest post, not stupid poster.

If you're curious about lengths of residencies, check out:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/search.php?searchid=198388

I found this one to be helpful:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=116023&highlight=length+residency

 

[Luck]

I don't know anything of the D.O. program or what that is, maybe others do though. It might be a shorter residency , but I have no idea

Bobo may be referring to this statement. D.O.s are physicians like MDs and do a residency and practice medicine just like MDs. Since you are premed and don't know what a DO, it may make you seem ignorant. Bobo himself is a DO who is a practicing physician in his first year of residency.

 

[JennaK]

He said post/er , I was assuming meaning post and poster were both stupid. Thanks for those links!

 

[JennaK]

Obviously I know what a D.O. is, but I know nothing of that particular program or it's specifications as I stated. I know what I have read on here. And that is that they are like M.D. with a little extra training of their own. My comment meant to maybe ask someone in a D.O. program that knows all the specifics of what requirements will gain a private practice in the end.

 

[MoosePilot]

He said post/er , I was assuming meaning post and poster were both stupid. Thanks for those links!

Huh, you're right, I would swear it just said post, which I thought was much nicer. It's not true, you just had your facts skewed and/or misspoke. No big deal, it helped me out because I found those posts about residency length 🙂

 

[JennaK]

Yes, those will help alot. I will say residency is something Iam currently researching to see what specialty I might want to enter into🙂 Thanks again!

 

[beanbean]

Hello guys! thank you for the reply!

I see myself working in a primary care environment in the future, so surgery is off my list. That's b/c I can' t handle the pressue that a valuable human life on my hand. I don't mind which primary care specialization I do as long I have passion about it and yet it still provides stable working schedule (i.e no calling at night). Ultimately, I want to operate my own private practice. It seems MD's have to scarfices so much to reach their goals. That's why I really respect them.

But, it's not the prestige lable, MD, that I am looking for. I want to do something that offer health service to ppl, yet I still have some time to myself to pursure other interests and raise a family. Is it a good reason to start looking for other health profession like Dentistry and Optometry[\QUOTE]

It is definitely possible to have a life and a family while working as a physician. However, I am concerned when you say that you wish to do primary care because you can not handle the pressure of having someone's life in your hands. Primary care physicians are an integral part of their patient's health and decisions they make can often be defined under "having the patient's life in your hands". In addition, you will indicate that you do not wish to have call at night. For most specialties, including primary care, this is not realistic. There are of course specialities that have minimal to no overnight call - such as dermatology.

Medicine is a huge commitment. I encourage you to look at all career options that interest you. Best of luck whatever career you ultimately choose!

 

[Smooth Operater]

hey guys! Thank you for trying to help me out here eps. Jenna K 🙂 .

I am trying to compelete pre-req for most med/dental/med schools. I havn't really decided firmely which direction I shall go for right now, so I wouldn't call myself a pre-med yet. Like BeanBean said, I am in the process of looking at all the career options that interest me.

Therefore, I may have some wrong information needed to be corrected like the preception that most speciality in primary care do not receive overnight call.

I have another big goal in my life which is to learn and preach gospels. I know medicine is a huge commitment, so I know I will less opportununity to do so in med than other health related professions.


Is there a list outta there with specialities that rarely receive overnight call? It would be nice to know.

Thank you guys!

 

[beanbean]

Overnight call as a physician is not always as bad as it sounds.

During residency, the hours are tough and overnight call is spent at the hospital. Once you are an attending physician in private practice your call is usually taken from home. Many practices combine their call with other practices so that each doctor is on call less frequently. How busy you are depends on many factors...What specialty you are? There few urology emergencies in the middle of the night when compared to OB/GYN. The volume of patients you are covering is another factor. There has been a trend in primary care towards hospitalists covering patients who are admitted to the hospital while regular internists see patients as outpatients in their office. Therefore, if you are on call as an internist who does not cover in hospital patients, your call will not involve hospital visits.

There are other specialities like Emergency Medicine in which you work shifts. This type of work is often very flexible. The advantage of shift work is that when you are done; you're done.

Check out some of the specialty forums here on SDN. Each specialty has its own 'personality'. Most students really make up their mind what they wish to pursue during their third year of med school. As you rotate through different areas it becomes more apparent what field is the right one for you.

I commend you on asking these questions now. Some premeds are too in love with the idea of "becoming a doctor" and fail to ask these important lifestyle questions.

Deirdre

 

[JennaK]

Well as pre-meds we are only learning of the field which we are hoping to enter into. We are suppose to not know everything. And as learners I feel there are no wrong questions that make us idiots. I still have a year left and so much more to learn before I apply to medical school. I also know pre-med advisors information may not always be accurate. I have found this out on several occasions. All those who "know all" were at one time a pre-med like us and I'am sure will guide us in the information we need to learn about and not scrape us off their shoe 🙂 And by the way BeanBean gives very good advice and helps out very well with advice that you can benefit from. I still say for the most part the posters here can help out alot and guide you in what questions you have. I 'am going to shadow a doctor soon and I hope all questions that haven't been answered can be answered by the physician I shadow. Good Luck in your pre-med studies!

 

[skypilot]

This is a useful chart on the hours, years and salary in residency.

You will be an MD at the end of medical school and a licensed MD at the end of your first year of residency but the rest of your residency is when you will learn your specialty as a physician.

After all would you want to have surgery from a surgeon who had done only one year of general medicine?

http://www.caribbeanmedicine.com/residency.htm

 

[AlternateSome1]

You ll HAVE to complete a residency to become a M.D. and there is no way that you'll have a life during that time. In fact you'll almost literally be living there. This is the only way to get into this profession at the title you want. I don't know anything of the D.O. program or what that is, maybe others do though. It might be a shorter residency , but I have no idea

Another error in this, which others haven't pointed out yet, is that some residencies have better lifestyles than others. If you are going into surgery or internal medicine, you can expect long hours. If you go into psychiatry, derm, prev. med., etc. you will not have nearly the lifestyle issues during the residency or otherwise.

 

[roja]

First- Absolutely do not buy into the 'no life' CRAP that gets spouted by premeds and perpetrated by residents and med students who need to make them selves feel like what they are doing is almost impossilbe. You want to work in medicine and help people? medicine is a great career. You don't want peoples lives in your hands? Medicine is not such a great career. Even without direct patient contact, the potential to have peoples lives in your hands is very very high.

Second- While technically, you are liscenced after internship, there isn't a hospital in the country that will allow you to practice without a residency. There is also not an insurance company in the country that will insure you. You are also truly not qualified without a residency to take care of patients.

third- you should probably do a little more research into what being an MD is like. The idea of the old norman rockwell md has died a long time ago. Most people join group practices.... its not financially possible anymore to have that practice anymore....

Fourth- Medicine is great. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise, but think carefully about it. While you can have a life, you will still make sacrifices.....