Question regarding undergrad poster presentation and abstract publication

[raltima07]

Hey,

I am going to be presenting a poster at a ivy league school as an undergrad for their regional poster presentation. It will also be published (my abstract) in their undergrad science journal.


Is this something that is a big posititive? Does the abstract count as a publication?

THanks!

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[Guero]

Hey,

I am going to be presenting a poster at a ivy league school as an undergrad for their regional poster presentation. It will also be published (my abstract) in their undergrad science journal.


Is this something that is a big posititive? Does the abstract count as a publication?

THanks!

Sadly, that doesn't "count" because it's not a publication. Publications are limited to actual manuscripts published by peer-reviewed research journals. Moreover, we can't list something as a publication if it was recently submitted and under review. They require that publications are accepted and properly cited (i.e., article title, date, journal title, issue, volume, and page number).

One poster presentation and its linked abstract isn't a "big" positive, per se. But it is a huge step forward for you. It becomes a bigger aspect of your application if you do more research and accumulate several undergrad poster presentations. Better yet, you can use the experience as a stepping stool in a succession of additional experiences. The research experiences and your extent of involvement and independence are actually more important than the posters or publications themselves. (See the "MD/PhD and publication question" thread for a good commentary.)

As was in my instance, I participated in 7 undergrad studies that led to poster and oral presentations at local and regional symposia. Those, added with my first Research Assistant I job that started around the same time in college, helped me land a Research Assistant II job right out of college. (Most people have to start out as an RAI.) That PI saw my experiences as a demonstrated dedication and allowed me to coauthor several of his manuscripts. After working that gig for two years and completing the study, I landed my current Research Coordinator position that came with a 25% pay raise and *primary* authorship on two manuscripts. Going into the 2011-12 application cycle, you can just imagine the confidence that these experience lend. So keep up the good work and forge ahead.

 

[solitude]

Sadly, that doesn't "count" because it's not a publication. Publications are limited to actual manuscripts published by peer-reviewed research journals. Moreover, we can’t list something as a publication if it was recently submitted and under review. They require that publications are accepted and properly cited (i.e., article title, date, journal title, issue, volume, and page number).

One poster presentation and its linked abstract isn't a "big" positive, per se. But it is a huge step forward for you. It becomes a bigger aspect of your application if you do more research and accumulate several undergrad poster presentations. Better yet, you can use the experience as a stepping stool in a succession of additional experiences. The research experiences and your extent of involvement and independence are actually more important than the posters or publications themselves. (See the "MD/PhD and publication question" thread for a good commentary.)

As was in my instance, I participated in 7 undergrad studies that led to poster and oral presentations at local and regional symposia. Those, added with my first Research Assistant I job that started around the same time in college, helped me land a Research Assistant II job right out of college. (Most people have to start out as an RAI.) That PI saw my experiences as a demonstrated dedication and allowed me to coauthor several of his manuscripts. After working that gig for two years and completing the study, I landed my current Research Coordinator position that came with a 25% pay raise and *primary* authorship on two manuscripts. Going into the 2011-12 application cycle, you can just imagine the confidence that these experience lend. So keep up the good work and forge ahead.

overall good advice in that it is the dedication and experience that matters more than anything else (See Neuronix's posts in the "publications required" thread). However, on your application it is perfectly fine to list a publication that is in preparation, in submission, under review, etc. as long as you're perfectly clear about the status of the manuscript. This can be helpful. Similarly, feel free to list posters/abstracts; recognize that these aren't going to be a big push, but I think they certainly do not hurt in reflecting your dedication and experience. I listed URLs where my posters could be viewed if adcoms wished to, though I have no idea if anybody ever viewed them. The most important things will be:
1) how long you did research
2) whether your PI writes you a good letter
3) whether you write a good essay about your research
4) WHETHER YOU CAN TALK INTELLIGENTLY ABOUT IT IN INTERVIEWS

Publications, posters, abstracts, etc. are largely superfluous.

 

[mcat45]

Publications, posters, abstracts, etc. are largely superfluous.

solitude, I'm a bit surprised by the above statement. Those things are superfluous? While, I wouldn't think such things are necessary to get into a program or even a good program, I would imagine they would be viewed a bit more favorably than just superfluous. Then again, I am not yet in an mstp program. Is this a view that you have heard voiced by individuals/adcom in your program (where do you go to school? I know it's a top program, but don't know which one)? I've actually put quite a bit of effort into doing things like presentations, since I was unsure of whether I would publish my work and wanted to be able to convey my scientific interests.

 

[SilverBvllet]

Posters, conference proceedings, abstracts...they don't count as publications. I knew a grad student that put abstracts as publications to make it seem like they had a lot of papers for a fellowship.

Result: became laughing stock of department/lab and quit a year later.

 

[bd4727]

If you look at a scientific CV, it will have a section for peer-reviewed publications and a separate section for Presentations/Abstracts/Posters, etc. This is how you should list things on your CV and on your applications.

For most MD/PhD applicants, they have multiple Abstracts/Posters and no publications. It is entirely appropriate to list these things on your applications.

 

[solitude]

solitude, I'm a bit surprised by the above statement. Those things are superfluous? While, I wouldn't think such things are necessary to get into a program or even a good program, I would imagine they would be viewed a bit more favorably than just superfluous. Then again, I am not yet in an mstp program. Is this a view that you have heard voiced by individuals/adcom in your program (where do you go to school? I know it's a top program, but don't know which one)? I've actually put quite a bit of effort into doing things like presentations, since I was unsure of whether I would publish my work and wanted to be able to convey my scientific interests.

Yes, I stand by my statement, these things are largely superfluous. What matters much much more, as I noted, is how dedicated you were to the research, as conveyed by the years in lab, quality of your letter(s), and how well you can talk about your research in your essay and especially in interviews. If you have presentations/posters/abstracts, that's great, but it's not really going to help you a lot. If you want to work hard on them, that's great; I did the same. But overall I don't think they make a huge difference. For example, I would trade an extra year in lab for a few posters/abstracts any day of the week.

This view is my own only, but reflects things I have heard from adcoms and other students who have gone through the admissions process. Yes, top mstp, rather not say where.

(and yes, by all means do list them! It certainly can't hurt.)

 

[Guero]

I appreciate everyone's input and comments—they're all very helpful. Seeing this thread trend, I'd like to seek input from some of you regarding what to include and omit from my AMCAS experiences and essays as a 2011-2012 applicant to mainly top 20 MSTPs.

If you look at my MD APP profile, I've been blessed with many publications and several years of experience in research, but with the scale leaning toward more in clinical research than the basic sciences. Clearly, I plan to highlight my past, present, and future basic science experiences in my AMCAS primary and the MSTP essay. I know to describe my level of independence, involvement in experimental design, and overall responsibilities of all of my post-bac research experiences in my MSTP essay. I also know to include my clinical volunteer roles in the AMCAS primary. That takes up 5 out of 15 experiences in the AMCAS primary: my molecular neuro lab experience, my molecular neuro pub, my future responsibilities in Kaas's neuroanatomy lab, & my 2 clinical volunteer roles.

But how should I best allocate the remaining 10 slots to the rest of my experiences, presentations, posters, and publications?

As an undergrad, I had 6 undergrad presentations, 1 regional oral presentation, and 2 regional posters. (Only one of these projects was as a senior author; I coauthored the rest.) I also had a standing part-time psychology RA position that sparked my post-bac research positions.

As a post-bac, I have 3 coauthored national posters (1 more submitted), 2 coauthored pubs in medical peer-reviewed journals, 1 lab presentation, 2 co-authored pubs written and awaiting submission, 1 coauthored molecular neuroscience paper awaiting final data, and am currently writing 5 first-author papers with faculty senior authors. The five papers are all retrospective and include the following topics: antidiabetic agent exposure as a predictor of MI; antidiabetic agent exposure as a predictor of CVA; MRI as a predictor of microvascular decompression outcome in trigeminal neuralgia (btw, NS is my primary residency interest); identifying neurodeficit specificity of ICU delirium patients using Rey-Ostereith Complex figures; and a catatonia project TBD. Lastly, by matriculation I'll have had a 2+ year stint as a clinical RAII and a 2+ year stint as a clinical research coordinator.

So, should I even bother with the undergrad stuff? Should I just fill the remaining 10 AMCAS experiences with my research presentations, posters, and pubs? If so, which ones? If not, should I pepper it with some of my other extracurriculars, like teaching experiences, other volunteering, shadowing, and academic honors? This has been bugging me for months!

I apologize for the epistle of a post. Thanks in advance for your comments!

 

[SilverBvllet]

What is the "lab presentation?"

If it's just a presentation you gave for your group, then it is insignificant. Prioritize my friend. Think high-yield.

Extrapolating into the future is not worth anything in my book. Write what you have (aka published/conf. presentations), and if you have space, write what you WILL have (aka stuff in review, stuff your currently writing). That stuff you WILL have can also be updated later on so no sweat not being able to fit it into AMCAS. The reason I say the stuff you WILL have doesn't count/holds little weight is because any average joe can say, "yea I'm writing 10 first author papers right now" then not come through. In review is slightly better...but not by much. Accepted/published is where the meat is. I think many adcoms recognize this.

Organize AMCAS like this by using categories instead of individual events:

1. clinical volunteering
2. extracurricular stuff
3. lab experiences
4. publications
5. presentations
6. etc.

but also prioritize the stuff you have over stuff you will have. And yes, do not take up more than one slot for clinical volunteering/stuff like that (unless you eradicated AIDS from an African village and also started a free clinic in your neighborhood or something) because remember you are applying MSTP so show off your research. Good luck.

P.S. your accomplishments are super impressive and I think if you make those publications clear you are good to go. I wouldn't clutter it with a bunch of "in progress" kinds of things unless you have extra space.