Question

[Skiiiiiing]

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I don't know. I think MD schools just care about the MCAT a lot. Yes, it's not going to make your app if you have a great score but are lacking in other fields. But, on the same token, it can destroy an otherwise good app. I saw people with 505's and ~ my GPA snag acceptances, but it's on the rare side. I also assume they didn't have any subsections below 125, which I believe is what hurt me. Also, they were at schools like the HBCUs or they were URM (not hating on these paths, just saying it like it is).

If we're being totally truthful, my MCAT was unbalanced. I killed CARS and psych, but did average-below average on C/P and bio. Looking back, my study approach was ineffective. However, I made the calculated decision to start working towards my career now rather than delay a year just to get an MD. It's a personal decision.

I don't think MD schools are homogeneous in terms of their preference for their 1st to 75th percentile students. Of course they would prefer the 99th percentile MCAT, but they do weigh a lot of factors.

As I recall, you landed at KCU KC, right? I very seriously doubt this closes doors outside of a small handful of residencies, and the KCU campus is awesome. I think USNR putting them in top 25 of primary care is appropriate.

I think new programs with no affiliated hospital, that stream-in most of their lectures and have few doctoral-level faculty on campus, and that offer limited 3rd/4th year support are where the ground-zero risks are.

 

[stiden201]

ICOM has said they're affiliated with 28 hospitals, medical centers and health care organizations.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

ICOM has said they're affiliated with 28 hospitals, medical centers and health care organizations.

That means nothing... How many of them are greater than, say, 200 beds? How many have GME? What are the patient populations like? What kind of pathology does that place see? Affiliations mean nothing without this other data. I have a hospital by my house with 40 beds total, is that the kind of hospitals that are being counted?

Being from the region I can tell you to be very suspicious of these "affiliations."

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I don't think MD schools are homogeneous in terms of their preference for their 1st to 75th percentile students. Of course they would prefer the 99th percentile MCAT, but they do weigh a lot of factors.

As I recall, you landed at KCU KC, right? I very seriously doubt this closes doors outside of a small handful of residencies, and the KCU campus is awesome. I think USNR putting them in top 25 of primary care is appropriate.

I think new programs with no affiliated hospital, that stream-in most of their lectures and have few doctoral-level faculty on campus, and that offer limited 3rd/4th year support are where the ground-zero risks are.

Yep, I'm headed to KCU-KC right now unless I end up getting off the MD waitlist.

I actually have no regrets about where I'm headed! I absolutely loved KCU and it was my top choice DO school the entire cycle. I actually like the school/location better than the MD school in a lot of aspects. So, no regrets here! I'm excited to get to be a doctor at a school I love 🙂

I agree about the newer schools being more sketch.

 

[GTown]

There was an SDNer who transferred from a DO school to Ross, for the prestige of that MD and his parents told him to. I wonder how that's working out.

The guy also went loose cannon pretty quickly and got a Banhammer smack.

This is one of the most terrible things I've read on sdn. Ouch. Are people really that concerned with MD vs DO. Should I be feeling silly for choosing a DO acceptance over MD? Coz I don't.

 

[GTown]

No more gap years! I'm in one now. I've worked full time in my field for nearly five years now, and I'm so burned out it literally makes me feel ill thinking about working another year instead of starting med school this summer. I got into my top choice DO, so I'm pretty happy with how things turned out. 🙂

Same! I got into top choice DO, WL MD, acceptance at not top choice MD. Going with DO 🙂

 

[Goro]

This is one of the most terrible things I've read on sdn. Ouch. Are people really that concerned with MD vs DO. Should I be feeling silly for choosing a DO acceptance over MD? Coz I don't.

I think that SDNer had more issues with reality vs fantasy than MD vs DO.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Eh, the bias still deff exists. I had an MD friend who was convinced that DOs simple were no taught the same material in school as him, and that it wasnt at the same level of rigor.

I also dated a MD chick that told me she didnt want to marry me because I wanted to go the DO route, and that "I dont want you to resent my success". Dodged a bullet there.

So yeah, there is still a stigma.

I think that SDNer had more issues with reality vs fantasy than MD vs DO.

 

[Goro]

Eh, the bias still deff exists. I had an MD friend who was convinced that DOs simple were no taught the same material in school as him, and that it wasnt at the same level of rigor.

I also dated a MD chick that told me she didnt want to marry me because I wanted to go the DO route, and that "I dont want you to resent my success". Dodged a bullet there.

So yeah, there is still a stigma.

Ignorance will always exist and idiots will always exist.

 

[GTown]

Ignorance will always exist and idiots will always exist.

I hadn't worried about this until today (went down a SDN rabbit hole last night) but should we be worried about matching as DO's post-merger? I didn't think it would be an issue, especially considering Rowan has solid matches in ACGME programs (someone matched IR last year I believe). But seriously should I be worried...?

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I hadn't worried about this until today (went down a SDN rabbit hole last night) but should we be worried about matching as DO's post-merger? I didn't think it would be an issue, especially considering Rowan has solid matches in ACGME programs (someone matched IR last year I believe). But seriously should I be worried...?

Depends on what you're interested in. That's why general advice is to go MD over DO, just to keep the most doors open.

 

[Cinemed]

My thing is like... why would you ever apply DO if you planned to refuse the acceptance?

Unfortunately the result of the "pre-med" mentality. I.e. "Gotta hustle and get good grades so I can get into medical school. I would be grateful if any medical school accepts me...". Multiple acceptances later "Man, now that I got these prestigious DO acceptances, maybe I'm more competitive than I thought. I think I should have put my chips all in MD. Maybe I can drop these acceptances and try for an MD school..."

Well this "pre-med mentality" is nothing but a waste of money and lacks critical thinking. The situation-dependent planning beforehand for anyone who deems themselves ready to apply should go something like this (#4 is most important):

1. I am a lock for an MD acceptance.

• Apply all MD. Go MD.

2. I am reasonably confident in an MD acceptance and don't want to be a DO.

• Apply all MD. Go MD.

3. I am reasonably confident in an MD acceptance but would gladly take a DO acceptance to fulfill my end goal of being a doctor, and to not have to reapply/sit on my hands for a year.

• Apply mostly MD, some DO and go MD; if no MD acceptances but DO, go DO.

4. I am not at all confident in an MD acceptance and don't want to be a DO.

• Please, don't apply. Your goal is not to be a doctor.

5. I am not at all confident in an MD acceptance and would gladly take a DO acceptance to be a doctor.

• Apply very strategically to MD schools and mostly DO schools. Go MD>DO.

6. I have a very slim/no chance at MD and would of course take a DO acceptance to be a doctor.

• Carefully consider applying to your state MD school (e.g. is money an issue? Are you in California?) and apply all DO. Go DO.

7. I have applied early with my best foot forward for multiple cycles to both DO and MD without a nibble, I do not want to keep improving my application year-after-year, my MCAT is about to expire, I still want to be a doctor, I want to move on with life, and my lean costs more than your rent (it do).

• Carrib

8. I like hurricanes.

• Carrib

 

[GTown]

Depends on what you're interested in. That's why general advice is to go MD over DO, just to keep the most doors open.

I don't know for sure of course but I'm thinking PM&R, anesthesia, or EM. I'm not aiming for derm, opth - even if I went MD I know I wouldn't consider those. I would have actually loved Rad-Onc (my husband's best friend is just finishing Rad-Onc and loves it) but there are AOA programs (right?), probably crazy competitive and who knows what will happen with the merger.

This is my neurotic side coming out but I went through Rowan's 2017 match. I don't know if it's Rowan, the region, or their students just do really well? Does this seem like a solid match list? https://www.rowan.edu/som/education/documents/2017RowanSOMMatchResultsTable.pdf Input from more experienced docs?

76/90 matches in ACGME programs. Most are east coast, big teaching hospital programs. Anesthesia, EM. FM, IM, Ped, Nuero, OB, PMR and Rads. My husband is a MD, but he's from the northeast and he always says there's less bias here towards DOs.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Eh, the bias still deff exists. I had an MD friend who was convinced that DOs simple were no taught the same material in school as him, and that it wasnt at the same level of rigor.

I also dated a MD chick that told me she didnt want to marry me because I wanted to go the DO route, and that "I dont want you to resent my success". Dodged a bullet there.

So yeah, there is still a stigma.

I had one guy...who was getting C in an easy-ish bio course, 37 and living with his parents, working a job that paid a little over minimum wage...tell me that "people of my race do not pursue DO" when I told him I was applying jointly.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

I don't know for sure of course but I'm thinking PM&R, anesthesia, or EM. I'm not aiming for derm, opth - even if I went MD I know I wouldn't consider those. I would have actually loved Rad-Onc (my husband's best friend is just finishing Rad-Onc and loves it) but there are AOA programs (right?), probably crazy competitive and who knows what will happen with the merger.

This is my neurotic side coming out but I went through Rowan's 2017 match. I don't know if it's Rowan, the region, or their students just do really well? Does this seem like a solid match list? https://www.rowan.edu/som/education/documents/2017RowanSOMMatchResultsTable.pdf Input from more experienced docs?

76/90 matches in ACGME programs. Most are east coast, big teaching hospital programs. Anesthesia, EM. FM, IM, Ped, Nuero, OB, PMR and Rads. My husband is a MD, but he's from the northeast and he always says there's less bias here towards DOs.

Rowan has a hospital, tons of doctoral level faculty on site, researchers, 3rd and 4th year support... Its a real medical school.

A lot of the new DO schools have deficiencies in one or more of the mentioned, one of them I visited has deficiencies in all of them.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

I hadn't worried about this until today (went down a SDN rabbit hole last night) but should we be worried about matching as DO's post-merger? I didn't think it would be an issue, especially considering Rowan has solid matches in ACGME programs (someone matched IR last year I believe). But seriously should I be worried...?

The only risk for the high-quality DO programs is potential fallout from the McDo programs popping up everywhere diluting the brand with people who aren't prepared to be doctors. I don't think that risk is high for a couple reasons.

I think considering rejecting a low quality DO accept for a reapplication is reasonable if you can fix whatever tanked your app the first time around...there's essentially no quality assurance by COCA and some of the programs are taking advantage of that.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

ICOM has said they're affiliated with 28 hospitals, medical centers and health care organizations.

28? Why not over 9,000?

 

[Goro]

I hadn't worried about this until today (went down a SDN rabbit hole last night) but should we be worried about matching as DO's post-merger? I didn't think it would be an issue, especially considering Rowan has solid matches in ACGME programs (someone matched IR last year I believe). But seriously should I be worried...?

I don't think there is cause to worry.

 

[GTown]

The only risk for the high-quality DO programs is potential fallout from the McDo programs popping up everywhere diluting the brand with people who aren't prepared to be doctors. I don't think that risk is high for a couple reasons.

I think considering rejecting a low quality DO accept for a reapplication is reasonable if you can fix whatever tanked your app the first time around...there's essentially no quality assurance by COCA and some of the programs are taking advantage of that.

Programs do look at the DO school I hope? Because yes not all are equal.

 

[Goro]

Programs do look at the DO school I hope? Because yes not all are equal.

Med schools are feeders to residencies. There's no reason why a PD at, say UCLA would look down on a Western grad just because ICOM, ARCOM, KCU-Joplin and RVU-UT have opened in the past year. The PD know the quality of the Western grad.

 

[RNthenDoc]

One of my mentors is a PD who knowingly selects DOs from what he considers “good” DO schools. Many make the list, but he specifically mentioned Rocky Vista, KCU.

Oddly enough, he had a negative opinion of LECOM.

n=1, but some folks certainly care about WHICH DO school they are working with

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Programs do look at the DO school I hope? Because yes not all are equal.

There's a percentage of residencies who won't even look at a DO candidate. Just pulling numbers out of thin air, but I'd guess probably 3% among FM, probably 10% among anesth, probably 70% neuro.

That percent may grow with the McDos, or may not, I don't know. They're not going to help the brand, that's for sure, but the extent to which that spreads to the community as a whole is questionable.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

but there are AOA programs (right?)

There are no DO rad onc residencies.

Programs do look at the DO school I hope? Because yes not all are equal.

outside of regional effects no they don't. A DO is a DO to them.

 

[GTown]

There are no DO rad onc residencies.

outside of regional effects no they don't. A DO is a DO to them.

I def did not know that. I guess rad-onc DO's just went to ACGME programs.

I'm glad I'm not trying to move out of the Northeast and hope Rowan's match lists remain same for the next few years at least!

 

[Chibucks15]

I def did not know that. I guess rad-onc DO's just went to ACGME programs.

I'm glad I'm not trying to move out of the Northeast and hope Rowan's match lists remain same for the next few years at least!

By the time you match there won't be AOA or ACGME residencies so just work your a** off regardless and itll work out

 

[Goro]

One of my mentors is a PD who knowingly selects DOs from what he considers “good” DO schools. Many make the list, but he specifically mentioned Rocky Vista, KCU.

Oddly enough, he had a negative opinion of LECOM.

n=1, but some folks certainly care about WHICH DO school they are working with

ALL med schools serve as feeders to residencies. This is no surprise.

There's a percentage of residencies who won't even look at a DO candidate. Just pulling numbers out of thin air, but I'd guess probably 3% among FM, probably 10% among anesth, probably 70% neuro.
That percent may grow with the McDos, or may not, I don't know. They're not going to help the brand, that's for sure, but the extent to which that spreads to the community as a whole is questionable.

Read the PD survey and you don't have to pull things out of your anal orifice. Neuro is a DO friendly field. Only 18% of their PDs will never interview or rank a DO. For Gas it's 2%.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I don't know for sure of course but I'm thinking PM&R, anesthesia, or EM. I'm not aiming for derm, opth - even if I went MD I know I wouldn't consider those. I would have actually loved Rad-Onc (my husband's best friend is just finishing Rad-Onc and loves it) but there are AOA programs (right?), probably crazy competitive and who knows what will happen with the merger.

This is my neurotic side coming out but I went through Rowan's 2017 match. I don't know if it's Rowan, the region, or their students just do really well? Does this seem like a solid match list? https://www.rowan.edu/som/education/documents/2017RowanSOMMatchResultsTable.pdf Input from more experienced docs?

76/90 matches in ACGME programs. Most are east coast, big teaching hospital programs. Anesthesia, EM. FM, IM, Ped, Nuero, OB, PMR and Rads. My husband is a MD, but he's from the northeast and he always says there's less bias here towards DOs.

I wouldn't worry. Just focus on killing it in med school and everything will work out.