Questions about doctors in Canada

[TaherSaid]

Hello everyone, I'm an IMG and I'm new to this forum and also new to Canada exams but went through few threads to try to understand everything. But I have some questions that I will try to organize:
1- Do you work in medical field while you are studying for MCCEE or MCCQE?
2- If not, do you work after you finish all the exams as a GP?
3- If not, how to work as a GP so that you get paid until you get matched?
4- Is it impossible to get Pediatrics residency? Anything I can do here in my country to help me with value to my C.V? Does MRCPCH have any value?
5- Is it impossible to get Ophthalmology residency? Anything I can do here in my country to help me with value to my C.V? Does FRCOphth have any value?

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[torontopharm]

Are you a Canadian citizen or permanent resident (PR)?

 

[TaherSaid]

Me a permanent resident, my wife is a Canadian citizen. We both are IMG.

 

[torontopharm]

Well that's good. Non-Canadian citizens/PR's aren't eligible to apply for a Canadian residency.
I can only answer some of your questions. From personal experience, many IMG's try to get a research assistant/associate position while trying to get matched. These are however tough to land because they don't particularly seek out IMG's. Other option for IMG's is to get their Physician's Assistant license, which i believe require some schooling as well.
You can't work as a GP without first matching into a FM residency i.e. it's impossible to work as a physician without first getting your residency done.
Forget Ophthalmology. You won't get it. Too competitive (read: impossible) for IMG's.
Not sure about pediatrics but i'd assume it'd be easier.
If you're not a graduate from UK/Irish/Australian schools, your chances of getting a residency (after you're done the exams etc.) is essentially 10-20%. This isn't to dissuade you but it's something to consider before attempting this route. Most Canadians studying abroad try matching through USA first, which is MUCH easier than going through CaRMS.

Good luck!

 

[jnuts]

Hello everyone, I'm an IMG and I'm new to this forum and also new to Canada exams but went through few threads to try to understand everything. But I have some questions that I will try to organize:
1- Do you work in medical field while you are studying for MCCEE or MCCQE?
2- If not, do you work after you finish all the exams as a GP?
3- If not, how to work as a GP so that you get paid until you get matched?
4- Is it impossible to get Pediatrics residency? Anything I can do here in my country to help me with value to my C.V? Does MRCPCH have any value?
5- Is it impossible to get Ophthalmology residency? Anything I can do here in my country to help me with value to my C.V? Does FRCOphth have any value?

You've asked questions that unfortunately do not have easy answers. The Canadian medical training system is very complicated and is simply not set up such that foreign trained physicians can enter practice here easily. I've tried to provide as many details as I can below.

1- Do you work in medical field while you are studying for MCCEE or MCCQE?
No. It is not possible to work as a physician in Canada without completing the MCCEE. If you are in your final year of medical school before obtaining your MD (or equivalent MBBcH, MBBS, MBB stc...) then you must write your MCCEE and NAC OSCE before applying for residency training in Canada. If you are not in your final year of residency then you must also write the MCCQE1, but this may not be true for all provinces. For full details of application requirements by province and program see:

http://www.carms.ca/en/residency/r-1/

I absolutely agree with the above post that expresses how difficult this process is if you have not lived in Canada for a prolonged period and are not a recent graduate of a medical schools in the UK, Ireland, or Australia and have not done substantial clinical work in Canada as a medical elective student to obtain high quality letter of reference from Canadian physicians working in academic centers in the discipline you are interested in.

I would estimate an overall success rate of less than 10%.

2- If not, do you work after you finish all the exams as a GP?
No. There is no general practice licence in Canada. The licentiate of the Medical Council of Canada which is granted on completion of the MCCQE1 and MCCQE2 does not allow you to practice medicine though it is required to practice medicine in Canada.

All medical doctors working in Canada are either trainees (Residents and Fellows) in an training program at an accredited academic institution, or have finished a residency or equivalent and gained membership with either the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC) or College of Family Practitioners of Canada (CFPC).

Additionally, all practicing physicians including trainees must be licenced by the provincial medical college. For a full list see: http://www.royalcollege.ca/portal/page/portal/rc/resources/provincialmra

Each of the above 4 certifying bodies have their own rules and requirements that may impact you. There are in general four types of foreign medical graduates who enter practice in Canada.
1)The first are recent medical graduates entering Canadian residency programs as described above.

2)The second are temporary trainees entering into fellowship programs in academic centers of limited duration (usually one year). These physicians are granted temporary licences that restrict them to working in a single academic site for a limited time period. Occasionally, Fellows have used these programs to gain entry into residency through the CaRMS system but they are still required to complete a Canadian residency. In rare circumstances, some well qualified fellows complete shorter residency programs than normal through competency based assessments but this is EXTREMELY RARE and still requires admission to a residency program.

3)Fully qualified academic physicians from other jurisdictions (specifically the US, UK, Aus, NZ, France, S. Africa) occasionally enter practice in certain settings through individual appeal to the various bodies involved. This process is very time consuming and expensive and is generally reserved for high profile academic physicians hired to professorial positions in an academic hospital with a great amount of support from the hiring hospital AND university

4) Special recruitment programs have existed in some provinces to provide Family Practice physicians to underserviced areas (occasionally this path is used for other high demand specialties on an individual basis). The licences issued for this route restrict a physician to practicing in a small rural area and are not valid if the physician attempts to leave. Applicants to these programs are often physicians with a general practice licence alone from another country (most commonly South Africa) and are assessed on a case by case basis. Very rarely physicians in one of these programs is able to enter a Residency program through CaRMS.


3- If not, how to work as a GP so that you get paid until you get matched?
You do not. There are no medical jobs available to any medical graduate that has not completed a residency.

4- Is it impossible to get Pediatrics residency? Anything I can do here in my country to help me with value to my C.V? Does MRCPCH have any value?
See above. Overall pediatrics residencies are not difficult for Canadian medical students to get. However, getting any residency as an IMG in your situation is VERY difficult. A UK certification (membership especially) alone will also likely not help. However, the RCPSC may recognize the MRCPCH; but alone this does not grant you the ability to practice medicine in Canada without the approval of the other licencing bodies described above. For example, the provincial medical authority may not give you a licence without a residency even though the Royal College has already given your specialty training certification.

5- Is it impossible to get Ophthalmology residency? Anything I can do here in my country to help me with value to my C.V? Does FRCOphth have any value
There is very little that you can do outside of Canada to help. Canadian specialty training schemes are used to evaluating Canadian medical students as applicants and will likely discount any foreign achievements or references due to lack of familiarity with the source. This is true even with some of the UK credentials--especially if you are less than fully qualified. Our training systems are just not compatible or easily convertible. The only way that you could help yourself would be to gain international academic acclaim in you field academically (in which case all of this conversation wouldn't matter much I'd imagine)

Sorry I can't be more encouraging.

 

[Medstart108]

Canada does recognize British residency training. If you have completed your entirety of Ophthalmology training in the UK, apply to an ophthalmology fellowship in Canada. 25% of doctors in Canada are IMGs, many of them in academic positions and the vast majority of those did their medical school and residency training in their home country (UK, Aus, Ire) and then did their fellowship in Canada and found a staff position here. This is one of the routes that many British, Australian and Irish doctors have found into Canada.

 

[jnuts]

That's true in some circumstances but you can't generalize. Here is the list of training bodies the RCPSC recognizes:

http://www.royalcollege.ca/portal/page/portal/rc/common/documents/credentials/jurisdictions_e.html

If you're certified by one of these in certain specialties then you can apply to have your training evaluated by the RCPSC who will likely accept it (but that's not guaranteed) . They will still require you to sit the exam. I cannot over-emphasize how difficult the Canadian board exams are if you do not have substantial exposure to the Canadian training system.

From the above site:
"NOTE: Training in one of the approved jurisdictions does not automatically confer eligibility to the certification examinations. Training must be assessed by the Royal College to confirm that it is substantially equivalent to Canadian training and has been satisfactorily completed. In addition, not all specialties are approved in each jurisdiction."

You then need the other two bodies to licence you:
1) the MCC which is usually just passing exams and,
2) the provincial licencing body - this is where it can get tricky. Most require a year of post-graduate training in Canada before they give you a licence.

Keep in mind that the 25% figure includes all the IMGs who've done residencies in Canada and a number of senior physicians from the UK and other commonwealth countries from before the 1990s when it was a lot easier to move to Canada.