Questions about Forensic Psychology Masters Programs

[luzianne555]

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Hello there,
At the moment I'm just a Sophomore at a University, but I tend to look at the future and plan things out, alas, I am looking at graduate schools.

I'm double majoring in Psychology and Criminal Justice right now, and intend to pursue a Masters degree in Forensic Psychology. With that, I intend to either join the FBI as a forensic psychologist, or join the FBI as a Special Agent with a forensic psych background.

I've been set on that for quite some time now, and I don't see it changing.

However, in the somewhat distant future I could see myself wanting to do research, which would require a PhD correct?


I've been looking at the "Guide to Graduate Programs in Forensic and Legal Psychology" by the AP-LS to get ideas.

The majority of the programs seem fairly pricey. Do private-graduate schools often ramp up prices to seem 'competitive' like private-universities do? If they do this, do they often give financial aid to 'drop' the price to a more reasonable amount?

Are there any colleges you would recommend specifically for Forensic Psychology, or recommend I stay away from for it?

As far as a PhD goes, I don't believe all schools require a Masters degree to receive one do they? A Master degree would take 2-3 years with a 1 year internship. If I went directly from undergrad to PhD how long could it take? I imagine I would have to have a 2 year work study or something similar before applying.

Lastly, for the same job, would having a PhD cause a significant increase in salary compared to a Masters degree? I'm sure it would be higher, but is it enough to counter the longer time to receive it?



Thank you for taking the time to read this, and for any replies given!
-Adam

 

[erg923]

Hello there,
At the moment I'm just a Sophomore at a University, but I tend to look at the future and plan things out, alas, I am looking at graduate schools.

I'm double majoring in Psychology and Criminal Justice right now, and intend to pursue a Masters degree in Forensic Psychology. With that, I intend to either join the FBI as a forensic psychologist, or join the FBI as a Special Agent with a forensic psych background.

I've been set on that for quite some time now, and I don't see it changing.

However, in the somewhat distant future I could see myself wanting to do research, which would require a PhD correct?


I've been looking at the "Guide to Graduate Programs in Forensic and Legal Psychology" by the AP-LS to get ideas.

The majority of the programs seem fairly pricey. Do private-graduate schools often ramp up prices to seem 'competitive' like private-universities do? If they do this, do they often give financial aid to 'drop' the price to a more reasonable amount?

Are there any colleges you would recommend specifically for Forensic Psychology, or recommend I stay away from for it?

As far as a PhD goes, I don't believe all schools require a Masters degree to receive one do they? A Master degree would take 2-3 years with a 1 year internship. If I went directly from undergrad to PhD how long could it take? I imagine I would have to have a 2 year work study or something similar before applying.

Lastly, for the same job, would having a PhD cause a significant increase in salary compared to a Masters degree? I'm sure it would be higher, but is it enough to counter the longer time to receive it?



Thank you for taking the time to read this, and for any replies given!
-Adam

What do you thinks the odds are of you being hired by the FBI, straight out of grad school and with no experience, for a division that curently employs less than 200 people, of which only a few dozen of are psych?

I would start making other, more pragmatic/realistic, career options for that degree.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

OP, I'd recommend doing a search on the clinical psych forum for "forensic psychology" (or similar), and plenty of threads will come up.

A few points to start it off:

1. You can only be a forensic psychologist after doctoral classes, dissertation, internship, post-doc, and specialized training in forensic psych (that can be gained throughout the prior training I noted). An MS in Forensic Psychology is like taking classes in "psychiatry" before going to medical school. A strong foundation in the surrounding areas is needed before speciality training can be done. Masters degrees in Forensic, Neuropsychology, and similar are mostly marketing because you can't be a specialist if you don't have a solid foundation first.

2. Working for the FBI is ridiculously competitive because there are so few spots, and the work is far different than what is portrayed on TV. Much of the Agent work for the 3-letter agencies (CIA, FBI, NSA, etc) is focused on white-collar crime and requires a different skill-set than a psychologist receives. Some of the research and analytical skills are helpful, but the actual expertise is going to be in things like finance, law, foreign languages, etc. There may be a few (literally 2-3) that do clinical things like you see on TV...but that work tends to be ethically questionable and very very dicey. Some psychologists consulted with the US Gov't to help them with interrogation techniques...which was NOT supported by the field.

3. Most forensic work is assessment-based and much closer to doing homework for a living because you write long evals and have to study up on the state laws and whatnot to be successful.

My caveat...I don't do clinical forensic work, at least in the way you mean it. Maybe some forensic people can comment on their day to day work.

 

[luzianne555]

What do you thinks the odds are of you being hired by the FBI, straight out of grad school and with no experience, for a division that curently employs less than 200 people, of which only a few dozen of are psych?

I would start making other, more pragmatic/realistic, career options for that degree.

I don't believe I said anything about going directly from getting a degree to the FBI, nor did I mean to imply that. For a Special Agent, which is my more likely option, I'll need two years of previous professional work.

The physical requirements are not hard at all, I can get a ten in three of the four tests at the current time, with an eight in the last physical test. Within a year that will be a 10.

My GPA is fairly high, and I'll have at least two internships before I graduate. I volunteer about 100 hours every semester, and am an Eagle Scout. And God knows I'm proficient with a firearm.

The only real issues I have is where to get my graduate degree, and where I will work after I receive my degree, that latter of which isn't a huge problem.

If I try to enter as a Special Agent, I will be entering CID, which is the largest division.

OP, I'd recommend doing a search on the clinical psych forum for "forensic psychology" (or similar), and plenty of threads will come up.

A few points to start it off:

1. You can only be a forensic psychologist after doctoral classes, dissertation, internship, post-doc, and specialized training in forensic psych (that can be gained throughout the prior training I noted). An MS in Forensic Psychology is like taking classes in "psychiatry" before going to medical school. A strong foundation in the surrounding areas is needed before speciality training can be done. Masters degrees in Forensic, Neuropsychology, and similar are mostly marketing because you can't be a specialist if you don't have a solid foundation first.

2. Working for the FBI is ridiculously competitive because there are so few spots, and the work is far different than what is portrayed on TV. Much of the Agent work for the 3-letter agencies (CIA, FBI, NSA, etc) is focused on white-collar crime and requires a different skill-set than a psychologist receives. Some of the research and analytical skills are helpful, but the actual expertise is going to be in things like finance, law, foreign languages, etc. There may be a few (literally 2-3) that do clinical things like you see on TV...but that work tends to be ethically questionable and very very dicey. Some psychologists consulted with the US Gov't to help them with interrogation techniques...which was NOT supported by the field.

3. Most forensic work is assessment-based and much closer to doing homework for a living because you write long evals and have to study up on the state laws and whatnot to be successful.

My caveat...I don't do clinical forensic work, at least in the way you mean it. Maybe some forensic people can comment on their day to day work.

I appreciate the response.

1. Gah. That's ridiculous. I can learn more by myself in three weeks than I can in any three courses over a semester.
Do all PhD/PsyD programs require a Masters degree? Or can you enter some of them after undergrad, if you do work studies and have a high enough GRE?

2. " ridiculously competitive" is my middle name 😀 The bigger the challenge the more I enjoy the ride. But, I am well aware that it is different from television. One of my uncles was in the FBI and has explained quite a bit about it, along with how it is one of the most corrupt organizations other than the UN.
I was actually thinking about picking up an accounting or finance minor to help out with that. I know Accounting is one of the biggest majors they recruit from.

3. Hmm. I wouldn't think I'd have to study state laws too much, aside from in the beginning. And When one which will effect me chance of course. But I do understand what you're saying with the assessments and forms.

Thanks again!

 

[luzianne555]

Double-posted by mistake

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Based on my (very, very) brief look into the behavioral analysis unit, as T4C mentioned, they hire a very, very limited number (e.g., 2-3, or perhaps even only one) of doctoral-level psychologists. The rest of the agents, from what I remember reading, are typically bachelor's-level individuals who have significant prior field experience (particularly retired military or law enforcement) and some sort of interest in the psych part. The rest is learned either during training or on the job, and my understanding was that they generally don't want people who're too heavily into psych training and theory prior to enrolling; they'd prefer, as previously mentioned, law enforcement agents who then learn additional psych components. I honestly don't know whether a master's would help at all, or if it even might hurt (in much the same way that having a doctorate could potentially hurt your chances if the 2-3 available spots they had were already filled).

To answer your other question--no, many (perhaps most) doctoral psych programs don't require a master's prior to enrolling. If you don't have one, you earn one en route to the PhD. However, they also don't require work study in the sense you're thinking. Prior research experience is a necessity, but whether or not you have a master's, a PhD in clinical/counseling psych is going to take you an average of 5-7 years to complete. If you already have your master's, the main difference is that you don't have to conduct a new empirical thesis (assuming you completed one already), and perhaps a few of your classes might transfer (the credit hours for which you might have to make up with other classes).

 

[erg923]

I don't believe I said anything about going directly from getting a degree to the FBI, nor did I mean to imply that. For a Special Agent, which is my more likely option, I'll need two years of previous professional work.

The physical requirements are not hard at all, I can get a ten in three of the four tests at the current time, with an eight in the last physical test. Within a year that will be a 10.

My GPA is fairly high, and I'll have at least two internships before I graduate. I volunteer about 100 hours every semester, and am an Eagle Scout. And God knows I'm proficient with a firearm.

The only real issues I have is where to get my graduate degree, and where I will work after I receive my degree, that latter of which isn't a huge problem.

If I try to enter as a Special Agent, I will be entering CID, which is the largest division.



I appreciate the response.

1. Gah. That's ridiculous. I can learn more by myself in three weeks than I can in any three courses over a semester.
Do all PhD/PsyD programs require a Masters degree? Or can you enter some of them after undergrad, if you do work studies and have a high enough GRE?

2. " ridiculously competitive" is my middle name 😀 The bigger the challenge the more I enjoy the ride. But, I am well aware that it is different from television. One of my uncles was in the FBI and has explained quite a bit about it, along with how it is one of the most corrupt organizations other than the UN.
I was actually thinking about picking up an accounting or finance minor to help out with that. I know Accounting is one of the biggest majors they recruit from.

3. Hmm. I wouldn't think I'd have to study state laws too much, aside from in the beginning. And When one which will effect me chance of course. But I do understand what you're saying with the assessments and forms.

Thanks again!

K. You've missed the points.

1.) There is not enough demand for the positions you're interested in (they don't hire that many people. limited hiring/open spots) to make it your only long-term career option. Thats poor planning.

2.) MA in forensic psychology and PhD in clinical (forensic) psychology are not the degrees that are most valued for that organization/occupation. I would suggest reading about the history and development of the BSU, as well as the qualifications and experiences of many there.

3.) Aspirations should never trump pragmatics. Get a degree that will get you to where you want to be. The MA in forensic psychology can provide: a stepping-stone to a doctoral program, consulting to a local police force or court system, or working with prisoners in a correctional system. That's pretty much all. The chances of it making you competitive for the positions you seem to be interested in is pretty much nil. Is it impossible? No. It is unlikely? Yes. Very. Thus, if you want to have actual employment and be able to actually pay your loans back, much less have a family and a nice life (home, vacation, steady pay check) you will need to plan for having a more ordinary job.