Questions about II's/Rejections

[Jody+Tinkles]

I applied to 23 MD schools with decent stats, but received a surprisingly low number of II's and no acceptances so far. I'm wondering what went wrong, in case I need to re-apply next year.

Stats:
Undergrad cumulative GPA: 3.57
Undergrad science GPA: 3.38
Graduate cumulative GPA: 3.81
Graduate science GPA: 3.79
Old MCAT: 31 (83rd percentile)
New MCAT 2015: 522 (99th percentile)
CT resident

Like many applicants, my first few undergrad years did not start off well in the sciences, and I have a couple C+'s and C's in organic chemistry and physics. However, I have a sharp upward trend my senior year, when I got a 3.93 and 4.0. I actually applied to vet school while taking some animal science classes at UConn, and was offered interviews at 4 of 8 schools, plus listed as alternate at the #1 vet school, and accepted at Tufts. However, I realized medicine was what I really wanted to do, so I did an SMP at BU to get my science grades up for med school. As evident by my stats, I did well in my classes (3.8), and am currently completing my lab-based thesis. I have a lot of research experience, volunteered at 2 hospitals, did an EMS program on campus and became an EMT, shadowed 2 types of doctors, and have some in-depth clinical experience (mostly veterinary, but I got to participate in lots of procedures and surgeries that I would not have been able to do at a regular hospital).

So my question is, what went wrong? It looks like I have better stats than a lot of people getting interviews or acceptances at schools I applied to that have rejected me or not gotten back to me yet. Did I apply too late? I was held up studying for the MCAT and with lab work, so my AMCAS primary was not submitted until 7/14 and listed as complete 8/14. As a result, I applied to most schools late August, September, and the last few in early October. Is this what hurt me the most? Did I apply to too many reach schools? List is below.

Albert Einstein
Boston University
Columbia
Cornell
Drexel
Emory
Feinberg
George Washington
Georgetown
Harvard
Hofstra
Loyola
Mount Sinai
New York Medical College
NYU
Rosalind Franklin
Temple
Thomas Jefferson
Tufts
Tulane
UConn
University of Pittsburgh
Vanderbilt

I interviewed at BU (decision deferred until March) and Pitt (1st tier wait list), and have been waitlisted for an interview at Rosalind Franklin and placed on hold at Drexel and NYMC. Have not heard anything from Albert Einstein, Harvard, Thomas Jefferson, Tufts, or UConn. The rest were rejections.

My adviser was a bit stumped as to why I didn't receive more II's, since I had good LOR's and a pretty good essay (according to the people who read it). I am, too. If anyone has any input, I'd love to hear it so I can improve my chances for next cycle if I have to reapply!

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[bearintraining]

I'm going to venture a guess that it is a combination of a lowish GPA and a list with some top heavy schools (Columbia, Harvard, Sinai, Vanderbilt) and some low yield schools (Boston, GWU, Jefferson, probably others).
FYI: Einstein has handed out rejections, as has Tufts and Jefferson. Harvard does not reject until the end of the cycle but by all indications have stopped interviewing.

 

[rudyin78]

I'll point out some things that I notice, but my main takeaway should be that the process is competitive and that even someone with impressive stats like yourself may not have a successful cycle. I am optimistic that you'll get into BU or Pitt though!

1) Secondaries: I think this is probably one of the more understated points on SDN, but it's extremely important. Secondaries are where you specifically need to show how you are a perfect match for the school based on their mission, areas of emphasis, opportunities, etc. This is in opposition to the primary where you can flesh out who you are independently. Your experiences and interests (that you've proven by pursuing them in some capacity) should shed light on to why the school should interview you. In order to have a strong secondary you need to have thoroughly researched a school and done something that, in some way, shows a quality that they value.
Looking over what you've included, it seems that research was the focus. A good number of schools on your list value community service and/or want students to show a passion for some activity unrelated to medicine. Well-rounded ECs are great not only because they help you figure out what you're actually interested in, they can be used as evidence to show that you fit vastly disparate missions. A plethora of vet activities may have confused adcoms unless you specifically explained how you tried it and realized medicine was a better fit.

2) Timing: From my experience, being complete at schools in late august is perfectly acceptable. In my opinion, once you get past mid-september, you're pushing it. I know some schools say they are non-rolling but interviews are necessarily given out on a rolling basis. Definitely get your apps asap if you need to reapply.

3) Scores: Your scores are excellent. Even with schools that average, you'd be at about a 34/35. I'd have a hard time believing this is what held you back. Your GPA, while a little low, still would've landed you interviews at more places than it did given the strong showing in your SMP combined with your second MCAT.

If you end up needing to reapply, apply early, get some volunteer experience or some experience in something other than med/vet, and spend more time researching the schools and writing bomb secondaries. Good luck!

 

[Jody+Tinkles]

I'll point out some things that I notice, but my main takeaway should be that the process is competitive and that even someone with impressive stats like yourself may not have a successful cycle. I am optimistic that you'll get into BU or Pitt though!

1) Secondaries: I think this is probably one of the more understated points on SDN, but it's extremely important. Secondaries are where you specifically need to show how you are a perfect match for the school based on their mission, areas of emphasis, opportunities, etc. This is in opposition to the primary where you can flesh out who you are independently. Your experiences and interests (that you've proven by pursuing them in some capacity) should shed light on to why the school should interview you. In order to have a strong secondary you need to have thoroughly researched a school and done something that, in some way, shows a quality that they value.
Looking over what you've included, it seems that research was the focus. A good number of schools on your list value community service and/or want students to show a passion for some activity unrelated to medicine. Well-rounded ECs are great not only because they help you figure out what you're actually interested in, they can be used as evidence to show that you fit vastly disparate missions. A plethora of vet activities may have confused adcoms unless you specifically explained how you tried it and realized medicine was a better fit.

2) Timing: From my experience, being complete at schools in late august is perfectly acceptable. In my opinion, once you get past mid-september, you're pushing it. I know some schools say they are non-rolling but interviews are necessarily given out on a rolling basis. Definitely get your apps asap if you need to reapply.

3) Scores: Your scores are excellent. Even with schools that average, you'd be at about a 34/35. I'd have a hard time believing this is what held you back. Your GPA, while a little low, still would've landed you interviews at more places than it did given the strong showing in your SMP combined with your second MCAT.

If you end up needing to reapply, apply early, get some volunteer experience or some experience in something other than med/vet, and spend more time researching the schools and writing bomb secondaries. Good luck!

Thank you for your advice! I hope I get into BU or Pitt, but if I do reapply, I will DEFINITELY do it early! I think this may have hurt me the most. I wanted to apply much earlier than I did, but I only had 5 weeks to study for the MCAT and 3 more weeks after that to learn all lab procedures before the lab manager who trained me left. That will not be an issue for the next cycle.

I think you really have good advice about the secondaries. I had a lot of applications that had optional essays, and I wasn't sure if I should use that space as a "Why X SOM" prompt. Some advisers and other friends who were applying said I should just leave it blank, but now I am regretting doing so. Without those essays, I don't think I was able to really convey why I would be a good fit specifically for that school.

I also had trouble finding detailed information about each medical school. The websites for many schools seemed vague and a lot like other medical schools. I feel that I learned so much more about each school during the interview days than what I could find online. Other than just googling the school's website, do you have any suggestions as to where I might find more detailed info about individual schools?

Sorry for all the questions!

 

[RHCP14]

Thank you for your advice! I hope I get into BU or Pitt, but if I do reapply, I will DEFINITELY do it early! I think this may have hurt me the most. I wanted to apply much earlier than I did, but I only had 5 weeks to study for the MCAT and 3 more weeks after that to learn all lab procedures before the lab manager who trained me left. That will not be an issue for the next cycle.

I think you really have good advice about the secondaries. I had a lot of applications that had optional essays, and I wasn't sure if I should use that space as a "Why X SOM" prompt. Some advisers and other friends who were applying said I should just leave it blank, but now I am regretting doing so. Without those essays, I don't think I was able to really convey why I would be a good fit specifically for that school.

I also had trouble finding detailed information about each medical school. The websites for many schools seemed vague and a lot like other medical schools. I feel that I learned so much more about each school during the interview days than what I could find online. Other than just googling the school's website, do you have any suggestions as to where I might find more detailed info about individual schools?

Sorry for all the questions!

Keep your head up. You have great stats, it's simply a matter of when not if you'll get in. This is off topic, but please share some of the strategies you employed to get a 522 in only 5 weeks of prep, you deserve some serious credit for that!

 

[passivelynonaggressive]

[ certain programs.

 

[rudyin78]

Thank you for your advice! I hope I get into BU or Pitt, but if I do reapply, I will DEFINITELY do it early! I think this may have hurt me the most. I wanted to apply much earlier than I did, but I only had 5 weeks to study for the MCAT and 3 more weeks after that to learn all lab procedures before the lab manager who trained me left. That will not be an issue for the next cycle.

I think you really have good advice about the secondaries. I had a lot of applications that had optional essays, and I wasn't sure if I should use that space as a "Why X SOM" prompt. Some advisers and other friends who were applying said I should just leave it blank, but now I am regretting doing so. Without those essays, I don't think I was able to really convey why I would be a good fit specifically for that school.

I also had trouble finding detailed information about each medical school. The websites for many schools seemed vague and a lot like other medical schools. I feel that I learned so much more about each school during the interview days than what I could find online. Other than just googling the school's website, do you have any suggestions as to where I might find more detailed info about individual schools?

Sorry for all the questions!

So yeah I tried to get a Why X SOM wherever possible. It's definitely not easy to find specific information. I spent hours combing through websites of not only the schools, but sometimes the affiliated hospitals. There's always something though. It could be specific research being done at the school, it could be patient contact experiences the school offers, a specialized clinic they have, areas of concentration, location (more than just I want to live here), team-based learning, scholarly project, student group, the list goes on. You just have to substantively relate it back to your experience/interest or even goals.

I also used friends as resources. I knew students at many of the schools that I applied to and asked them what they thought about the school, their favorite and least favorite things, etc. That certainly helped. I was also able to visit two of the schools I applied to before applying because they offered open houses. But the bulk of my research was done on the schools websites, affiliated hospitals, and sometimes those online magazines that highlight people's research for the alumni.

 

[BabyDoctor26]

In your secondaries, I think it is really important to spend more time talking about what makes you stand out from the sea of applicants that all look the same. There are hundreds of people applying that are scribes or EMTs that have shadowed and volunteered etc so you have to find a way to make yourself stand out from the rest of them with your specific experiences - like how your experiences have made you more culturally sensitive etc.

 

[Jody+Tinkles]

So yeah I tried to get a Why X SOM wherever possible. It's definitely not easy to find specific information. I spent hours combing through websites of not only the schools, but sometimes the affiliated hospitals. There's always something though. It could be specific research being done at the school, it could be patient contact experiences the school offers, a specialized clinic they have, areas of concentration, location (more than just I want to live here), team-based learning, scholarly project, student group, the list goes on. You just have to substantively relate it back to your experience/interest or even goals.

I also used friends as resources. I knew students at many of the schools that I applied to and asked them what they thought about the school, their favorite and least favorite things, etc. That certainly helped. I was also able to visit two of the schools I applied to before applying because they offered open houses. But the bulk of my research was done on the schools websites, affiliated hospitals, and sometimes those online magazines that highlight people's research for the alumni.

I agree. I researched the schools before I applied, and then again more in depth when I was filling out the secondaries. But so many of them sounded like they featured similar things: a new integrative curriculum, TBL, student-run clinics, etc. Granted, I love all these things! But I struggled to find something that really stood out for each individual school. A lot of the secondaries asked a "Why X SOM" prompt, but for the ones that didn't, I would definitely use that optional prompt to tell them anything else to write a Why X SOM essay. Unfortunately, I don't have many friends in med school, so I did not have any connections to ask from a student perspective.

I did have something unique to offer to each of these schools, but I thought I had focused on that enough in my personal statement and did not want to repeat myself. I am afraid that if I have to reapply, I won't have anything new to offer. Just have to hope I get in somewhere this year!

 

[Jody+Tinkles]

Keep your head up. You have great stats, it's simply a matter of when not if you'll get in. This is off topic, but please share some of the strategies you employed to get a 522 in only 5 weeks of prep, you deserve some serious credit for that!

Thank you!
I think I had a bit of an advantage since I was re-taking it: I had studied 3 months for the MCAT the year prior when I first took it. But I had studied on my own, and I think that was a mistake (also Berkeley Review was WAY too detailed for cramming info for the MCAT). I only studied specifically for the MCAT for 5 weeks, but I had basically been studying for it the entire year prior through my Masters in Medical Sciences program. Biochemistry and Physiology were particularly helpful, but I also took Histology, Immunology, Biostatistics, and Pharmacology. Some of these classes are actually the same as those for first year med students, and the exam questions hone your critical thinking skills that are tested on the MCAT. Biochemistry and biology were arguably the most important/covered sections on the new MCAT, and I barely had to review them since it was all still fresh in my mind from studying it way more in-depth through MAMS.

MAMS also offered a discounted Princeton Review course that for $1,000 gave me access to all the books and online modules for all MCAT sections, but only offered in-person courses for Gen Chem, Organic Chem, and Physics. There were also online Psych classes. As I mentioned, we had already spent the year studying biology and biochemistry, so that and CARS classes (which is kind of hard to study for anyways) were not included. I read all the books except CARS and found the modules super helpful. Since I only had 5 weeks to study between finals and my MCAT, I did not have time to study for CARS at all, but I love reading for fun so I read fast, and am pretty good at English/Critical Reading. I focused on the Physical Sciences section since I've always struggled most with that. I spent every free moment that I wasn't in lab (I had to start lab work for my thesis at this time as well) reading the chapters, doing problems, etc. I made sure to do as many questions as I could since that's the best way to prepare. I think I spent too much time reading the first time I took the MCAT, and not enough time on questions.

I only had time to do 4 PR practice tests and the AAMC practice exam one week before my MCAT. The results were... discouraging. That was before I learned that the practice exams were much harder than the actual new MCAT. The real MCAT was a bit of a let down given how much I had studied for it. I think I can attribute the majority of my success to the MAMS program, since the MCAT had SO much biochemistry on it. So I'm a bit of a unique case, since this allowed me to cram and not absolutely fail at it. Also I feel more comfortable the second time around- the same thing happened with me for the SAT.

So basically, my main strategy was to read through the books as fast and thoroughly as I could so I would have time to focus on the practice problems. And if you have not taken a biochemistry class, I recommend you do so, or definitely spend the majority of your time focusing on it!

 

[Jody+Tinkles]

I'm going to venture a guess that it is a combination of a lowish GPA and a list with some top heavy schools (Columbia, Harvard, Sinai, Vanderbilt) and some low yield schools (Boston, GWU, Jefferson, probably others).
FYI: Einstein has handed out rejections, as has Tufts and Jefferson. Harvard does not reject until the end of the cycle but by all indications have stopped interviewing.

Interesting. I have checked the portals and my email, but have heard nothing from Einstein, Tufts, or Jefferson. I wasn't really expecting anything from Harvard- that was obviously a long shot. My original list of schools did not have as many reach schools on it, but my advisers encouraged me to apply to more after I received my MCAT score. However, I don't believe it was enough to compensate for my lowish GPA, and I should have placed some more mid-tier and lower-tier schools on there as well, given how competitive the process is.

 

[Zobasity]

Interesting. I have checked the portals and my email, but have heard nothing from Einstein, Tufts, or Jefferson. I wasn't really expecting anything from Harvard- that was obviously a long shot. My original list of schools did not have as many reach schools on it, but my advisers encouraged me to apply to more after I received my MCAT score. However, I don't believe it was enough to compensate for my lowish GPA, and I should have placed some more mid-tier and lower-tier schools on there as well, given how competitive the process is.

I think that this is the key as well. Your list had too many reach schools and too many low yield schools. After having gone through this process last year, I am a big proponent that a big part of getting into medical school which people often don't put too much attention into is selecting the schools to apply to, instead of randomly picking schools that you have heard of, in your favorite city - which happens to be in most other people's favorite city.

This time around, do more mid range schools, in less exciting places. Schools like Rochester can easily be attained for a top applicant because by selecting it, you have already been filtered amongst naive premeds that first don't know the school (and how great it is) and do not want to live in Rochester NY. Try Case, MCW, UIowa, UCinn - just less mid tier schools in the coast and in big cities.

 

[Ibeenjammin]

Hey as a fellow MAMSer with the same II list and situation (although I'm 2nd tier at Pitt sadly), I have a good amount of intel that 1st tier has better than incredible chances of being accepted. So don't fret

 

[Jody+Tinkles]

I think that this is the key as well. Your list had too many reach schools and too many low yield schools. After having gone through this process last year, I am a big proponent that a big part of getting into medical school which people often don't put too much attention into is selecting the schools to apply to, instead of randomly picking schools that you have heard of, in your favorite city - which happens to be in most other people's favorite city.

This time around, do more mid range schools, in less exciting places. Schools like Rochester can easily be attained for a top applicant because by selecting it, you have already been filtered amongst naive premeds that first don't know the school (and how great it is) and do not want to live in Rochester NY. Try Case, MCW, UIowa, UCinn - just less mid tier schools in the coast and in big cities.

Exactly :/ Unfortunately, I was somewhat geographically limited, since I live with my boyfriend and he would have to be able to find a job near wherever I wind up for med school. He had even more naive faith than I did that I would wind up getting in at least one of the competitive schools I applied to, so he encouraged me to apply only to schools that were ideal for both of us. If I don't get in this cycle, however, we will have to work something else out. I already turned down vet school to pursue my dream of becoming a physician- I'm not going to let something like geography stop me.

Also, everyone (as well as their family and friends) who applies to med school believes they are worthy of getting in. And many times they are, but there are simply not enough spots. So even though I think I should be able to get accepted, does not mean I will be. I think more humility and a sharp dose of realism is necessary in choosing schools next time around if I have to.

 

[Jody+Tinkles]

Hey as a fellow MAMSer with the same II list and situation (although I'm 2nd tier at Pitt sadly), I have a good amount of intel that 1st tier has better than incredible chances of being accepted. So don't fret

Good luck!!
That's encouraging news- I wasn't sure, since I know some schools have almost no movement on the waitlist while others stand a pretty good chance. Hopefully it's good news come spring!