questions on being an international ORM

[KOB]

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I am completely new her ( this is my first day on SDN). So if anyone has ever posted anything similiar please be kind and direct me there.

I am a freshman at Brandeis University, biochem major, thinking about being pre-med. The problem is I am both international (i.e. no green card, only F-1) and ORM (possible, my family background is 100% Chinese). First of all, do I count as an ORM? If yes, how disadvantaged am I? I've heard rumors that my admitting chance is lower than 10% even with exceptional records. What should I do to boost up my chance. Several other things you might want to know about me: first semester GPA=3.2 (school version, not AMCAS version), Shadowed a doctor @ Xuanwu Hospital, Beijing for approx 90hr during winter break, plan to continue in the future. Research exp in Peking University as a high school student, one paper published. Now volunteering @ MGH Radiology Dep. please be as specific as possible. Please do not say things like build up your GGPA, MCAT, ECs. That's not helpful cuz everyone is doing this. Simple words preferred since my english is weak. Thanks in adv

 

[MerciMerci]

Yes it will be more difficult, as only some schools accept international applicants.

I know you don't want to hear "improve GPA" or "Get high MCAT" but that is what you will NEED to get into a US school. At this point, a 3.2 GPA would be difficult to get in if you were any applicant. You will have to outshine the other applicants. Long-term research, long-term clinical volunteering, long-term leadership roles, etc. I don't know enough to give specifics on this issue of international students, but I'm sure if you use the search tool you can find some answers. Maybe an ADCOM here can give you some more information

After a quick search, here are some of the schools that accept international applicants: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/international-student-friendly-school.547644/

 

[KOB]

Yes it will be more difficult, as only some schools accept international applicants.

I know you don't want to hear "improve GPA" or "Get high MCAT" but that is what you will NEED to get into a US school. At this point, a 3.2 GPA would be difficult to get in if you were any applicant. You will have to outshine the other applicants. Long-term research, long-term clinical volunteering, long-term leadership roles, etc. I don't know enough to give specifics on this issue of international students, but I'm sure if you use the search tool you can find some answers. Maybe an ADCOM here can give you some more information

After a quick search, here are some of the schools that accept international applicants: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/international-student-friendly-school.547644/

Thanks,can you suggest any viable back-up plan. BTW, going back to China is not an option is finding jobs or going to med school in China is hard for american graduates.

 

[nakittaxu]

Thanks,can you suggest any viable back-up plan. BTW, going back to China is not an option is finding jobs or going to med school in China is hard for american graduates.

I'm also a student from China who has been accepted.. I guess the best thing to do is to work really hard to maintain a high GPA..Additionally, try to engage yourself in some meaningful volunteer/research experience in the summers

 

[Finches]

Yes, you are an ORM. That and the lack of a green card will certainly put you at a disadvantage when it comes to admissions and financial aid. You also say that your English is weak - this will be a huge barrier for the verbal section of the MCAT. And depending on whether or not you can speak fluently, it will also affect your medical school interviews.

I am completely new her ( this is my first day on SDN). So if anyone has ever posted anything similiar please be kind and direct me there.

I am a freshman at Brandeis University, biochem major, thinking about being pre-med. The problem is I am both international (i.e. no green card, only F-1) and ORM (possible, my family background is 100% Chinese). First of all, do I count as an ORM? If yes, how disadvantaged am I? I've heard rumors that my admitting chance is lower than 10% even with exceptional records. What should I do to boost up my chance. Several other things you might want to know about me: first semester GPA=3.2 (school version, not AMCAS version), Shadowed a doctor @ Xuanwu Hospital, Beijing for approx 90hr during winter break, plan to continue in the future. Research exp in Peking University as a high school student, one paper published. Now volunteering @ MGH Radiology Dep. please be as specific as possible. Please do not say things like build up your GGPA, MCAT, ECs. That's not helpful cuz everyone is doing this. Simple words preferred since my english is weak. Thanks in adv

SDN is not the place to formulate your unique map to medical school. Do your own soul searching to gain a unique edge, and stay involved in research and volunteering. A 3.2 is not a good start. If you've enjoyed your research experience and going back to China is not up for discussion, a viable back up plan may be to pursue a PhD instead.

 

[KOB]

Yes, you are an ORM. That and the lack of a green card will certainly put you at a disadvantage when it comes to admissions and financial aid. You also say that your English is weak - this will be a huge barrier for the verbal section of the MCAT. And depending on whether or not you can speak fluently, it will also affect your medical school interviews.



SDN is not the place to formulate your unique map to medical school. Do your own soul searching to gain a unique edge, and stay involved in research and volunteering. A 3.2 is not a good start. If you've enjoyed your research experience and going back to China is not up for discussion, a viable back up plan may be to pursue a PhD instead.

Thanks for answering. PhD is indeed one possibility I am considering, but I don't want to take "Super SAT", so I am probably not going for that option. Other things I am thinking are PA or Pharm Schools. Are those easier to get in?

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks for answering. PhD is indeed one possibility I am considering, but I don't want to take "Super SAT", so I am probably not going for that option. Other things I am thinking are PA or Pharm Schools. Are those easier to get in?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/pre-pharmacy.54/

 

[KOB]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/pre-pharmacy.54/

Thanks for the directing, but I think I am more towards med school, cuz MD in an american school will be very shiny when I went back to China, while Pharm degree is not very useful

 

[CannedPineapple]

Thanks for the directing, but I think I am more towards med school, cuz MD in an american school will be very shiny when I went back to China, while Pharm degree is not very useful

You aren't convincing me that you want an MD for the right reasons, at all.

 

[KOB]

You aren't convincing me that you want an MD for the right reasons, at all.

TBH, I don't think there is a RIGHT reason. One can get a MD with any reason IMO. Plus, getting a good job is not a bad reason, at all.

 

[nakittaxu]

TBH, I don't think there is a RIGHT reason. One can get a MD with any reason IMO. Plus, getting a good job is not a bad reason, at all.

People go into medicine because they are compassionate and sympathetic towards human sufferings. If you just want a good job, why not try investment banking or consulting?

 

[KOB]

People go into medicine because they are compassionate and sympathetic towards human sufferings. If you just want a good job, why not try investment banking or consulting?

Cuz My mind is not wired towards finance, CS, engineering or any other high profitting areas. But I have a strong interest in the hard sciences ( math included), partially because of my Chinese education. and med school is the perfect place to apply this interest. If you ask why not PhD, then my answer is I hate the "Super Stupid American Test" aka GRE.

 

[CannedPineapple]

Cuz My mind is not wired towards finance, CS, engineering or any other high profitting areas. But I have a strong interest in the hard sciences ( math included), partially because of my Chinese education. and med school is the perfect place to apply this interest. If you ask why not PhD, then my answer is I hate the "Super Stupid American Test" aka GRE.

Dude, the MCAT is way harder than the GRE...

 

[mariambaby3]

I am completely new her ( this is my first day on SDN). So if anyone has ever posted anything similiar please be kind and direct me there.

I am a freshman at Brandeis University, biochem major, thinking about being pre-med. The problem is I am both international (i.e. no green card, only F-1) and ORM (possible, my family background is 100% Chinese). First of all, do I count as an ORM? If yes, how disadvantaged am I? I've heard rumors that my admitting chance is lower than 10% even with exceptional records. What should I do to boost up my chance. Several other things you might want to know about me: first semester GPA=3.2 (school version, not AMCAS version), Shadowed a doctor @ Xuanwu Hospital, Beijing for approx 90hr during winter break, plan to continue in the future. Research exp in Peking University as a high school student, one paper published. Now volunteering @ MGH Radiology Dep. please be as specific as possible. Please do not say things like build up your GGPA, MCAT, ECs. That's not helpful cuz everyone is doing this. Simple words preferred since my english is weak. Thanks in adv

Going back on topic, a GPA of 3.2 is much too low for an acceptance to a US MD program as an international. You will need put in substantial effort in the coming years to raise this.

Shadowing done in China will likely not count for much due to the vast differences in the health systems of the two countries.

Volunteering at MGH is a good step.

You will also need to improve both your written and oral English. Unfortunately, poor oral communication will be held against you during interviews.

I only briefly read through your subsequent posts, but did you say that you hope to graduate from a US MD program and then return to China for eventual practice? While this is probably feasible (not sure what the Chinese credentialing system is like), please do keep in mind that if you plan on financing your education with loans, it would be difficult to pay them off given the lower physician salaries in other countries.

 

[KOB]

Dude, the MCAT is way harder than the GRE...

No, I am doing practice questions and I am doing fine

 

[KOB]

Going back on topic, a GPA of 3.2 is much too low for an acceptance to a US MD program as an international. You will need put in substantial effort in the coming years to raise this.

Shadowing done in China will likely not count for much due to the vast differences in the health systems of the two countries.

Volunteering at MGH is a good step.

You will also need to improve both your written and oral English. Unfortunately, poor oral communication will be held against you during interviews.

I only briefly read through your subsequent posts, but did you say that you hope to graduate from a US MD program and then return to China for eventual practice? While this is probably feasible (not sure what the Chinese credentialing system is like), please do keep in mind that if you plan on financing your education with loans, it would be difficult to pay them off given the lower physician salaries in other countries.

This is one option I am considering, I am just a freshman so I want to consider as many as possible before making a final decision

 

[samac]

You have to work on your English before even attempting the MCAT. I promise, it is much harder than the GRE.
Your written English is rather poor and that needs to improve. It seems like you're going into medicine for the prestige and money which will probably make you very unhappy later in life.
I know you don't want to hear it but it's true: you've got to get your GPA up and kill the MCAT to stand a chance. You should probably shadow in the US to see the medical system in action too, to prove to US medical schools you're dedicated to medicine here.

 

[KOB]

You have to work on your English before even attempting the MCAT. I promise, it is much harder than the GRE.
Your written English is rather poor and that needs to improve. It seems like you're going into medicine for the prestige and money which will probably make you very unhappy later in life.
I know you don't want to hear it but it's true: you've got to get your GPA up and kill the MCAT to stand a chance. You should probably shadow in the US to see the medical system in action too, to prove to US medical schools you're dedicated to medicine here.

Yeah, I'll see more what's going on for one or two years before deciding on med school or somewhere else

 

[KOB]

You have to work on your English before even attempting the MCAT. I promise, it is much harder than the GRE.
Your written English is rather poor and that needs to improve. It seems like you're going into medicine for the prestige and money which will probably make you very unhappy later in life.
I know you don't want to hear it but it's true: you've got to get your GPA up and kill the MCAT to stand a chance. You should probably shadow in the US to see the medical system in action too, to prove to US medical schools you're dedicated to medicine here.

I saw many people saying this and I understand their reasoning. But in my case the opposite is true. I don't have any american education prior to university. Therefore, the reading and writing stuff may seem to be a piece of cake for people from english-speaking countries, is very tough for me. While the hard scinces on MCAT is the same coverage as my HIGH SCHOOL classes!! So I think anyone with a clear mind can reach my conclusion. Yes, I know there are verbal and psyc&socio suckers out there on the MCAT, but I won't worry about them until what is going on with the new MCAT is clear to everyone.

 

[nakittaxu]

I saw many people saying this and I understand their reasoning. But in my case the opposite is true. I don't have any american education prior to university. Therefore, the reading and writing stuff may seem to be a piece of cake for people from english-speaking countries, is very tough for me. While the hard scinces on MCAT is the same coverage as my HIGH SCHOOL classes!! So I think anyone with a clear mind can reach my conclusion. Yes, I know there are verbal and psyc&socio suckers out there on the MCAT, but I won't worry about them until what is going on with the new MCAT is clear to everyone.

The VR section on the MCAT is very tough for non-native speakers (I guess it could be challenging even for native English speakers), and could be much harder than the critical reading section on the SAT.. Dont overlook the science sections as well (because all the science questions are passage based and you need superb critical reading skills to excel here as well)

 

[Doug Underhill]

If the hard sciences on the MCAT are equivalent to your high school classes, why do you only have a 3.2? The subject material in your pre-med courses should be pretty easy if the MCAT stuff is similar.

A 3.2 will make it very hard to get in as an international student. You want to be 3.8+ for international admissions: you will be fighting with Canadians for seats and Canadians always have excellent GPAs- well, at least the ones that apply do.

 

[KOB]

If the hard sciences on the MCAT are equivalent to your high school classes, why do you only have a 3.2? The subject material in your pre-med courses should be pretty easy if the MCAT stuff is similar.

A 3.2 will make it very hard to get in as an international student. You want to be 3.8+ for international admissions: you will be fighting with Canadians for seats and Canadians always have excellent GPAs- well, at least the ones that apply do.

As I said, the past semester is the first time ever I study at USA, so I am not familiar with the curriculum, especially the lab classes. My weakness is in Calc 3 which is NOT a prereq for med school. Please do not post comments like this until you known the complete truth about my situation, which clearly you do not

 

[KOB]

The VR section on the MCAT is very tough for non-native speakers (I guess it could be challenging even for native English speakers), and could be much harder than the critical reading section on the SAT.. Dont overlook the science sections as well (because all the science questions are passage based and you need superb critical reading skills to excel here as well)

Those hard sciences questions are fine with me, I;ve stated that clearly before. I mean both passage-bade and simple MCQs. I can be this sure because I have been doing MCAT Qs' (old MCAT) along with my courses. I can get 80-90 percent on my bio sec and 70-80 on the physical secs

 

[nakittaxu]

Those hard sciences questions are fine with me, I;ve stated that clearly before. I mean both passage-bade and simple MCQs. I can be this sure because I have been doing MCAT Qs' (old MCAT) along with my courses. I can get 80-90 percent on my bio sec and 70-80 on the physical secs

70-80% in the PS section would land you in 80-90% percentile (10-11 for the subsection..) that's not good enough to get you into an MD school either

 

[Doug Underhill]

It may be helpful to avoid taking classes that are not pre-reqs that you feel you're weak in in the future. If you're good at bio and weak at math, do bio courses for your upper-level sciences: biochem, genetics, physiology, immunology, etc. Personally, I took one look at Calc 3 and ran away screaming.

The 75th percentile on the physical sciences on the old AAMC practice exams is usually a section score of 10. The 85th percentile on the biological sciences is usually a 12 or 13. The composite median score for matriculants in 2013-2014 was 33. Are you scoring 10 or 11 on VR to be competitive?

VR is really hard even for most native English speakers. I've always felt getting above a 12 on it was pure luck and never even got that high on the real thing.

 

[KOB]

70-80% in the PS section would land you in 80-90% percentile (10-11 for the subsection..) that's not good enough to get you into an MD school either

You are not considering the fact that I am a FRESHMAN, not a JUNIOR APPLICANT!!!

 

[KOB]

It may be helpful to avoid taking classes that are not pre-reqs that you feel you're weak in in the future. If you're good at bio and weak at math, do bio courses for your upper-level sciences: biochem, genetics, physiology, immunology, etc. Personally, I took one look at Calc 3 and ran away screaming.

The 75th percentile on the physical sciences on the old AAMC practice exams is usually a section score of 10. The 85th percentile on the biological sciences is usually a 12 or 13. The composite median score for matriculants in 2013-2014 was 33. Are you scoring 10 or 11 on VR to be competitive?

VR is really hard even for most native English speakers. I've always felt getting above a 12 on it was pure luck and never even got that high on the real thing.

Sorry, I am a biochem major and the upper division biochem class require some familiarity with multivar calc

 

[KOB]

It may be helpful to avoid taking classes that are not pre-reqs that you feel you're weak in in the future. If you're good at bio and weak at math, do bio courses for your upper-level sciences: biochem, genetics, physiology, immunology, etc. Personally, I took one look at Calc 3 and ran away screaming.

The 75th percentile on the physical sciences on the old AAMC practice exams is usually a section score of 10. The 85th percentile on the biological sciences is usually a 12 or 13. The composite median score for matriculants in 2013-2014 was 33. Are you scoring 10 or 11 on VR to be competitive?

VR is really hard even for most native English speakers. I've always felt getting above a 12 on it was pure luck and never even got that high on the real thing.

I am not doing VR for now, cuz I assume the VR sec on new MCAT will change alot

 

[samac]

You are not considering the fact that I am a FRESHMAN, not a JUNIOR APPLICANT!!!

You asked for opinions, don't get so defensive. People are trying to be honest with you and give you a realistic view because you asked, SDN isn't here to pump up your ego. In the future don't ask questions you don't want the answer to.

 

[candbgirl]

OP I can't figure out why you came here and posted a question! Every single piece of good advice given you swat down with an answer that screams "this doesn't apply to me"! Just go study and see where you are in a couple of years! You don't have to commit to medical school today or this week or this year! You do have to do way better than a 3.2 ( like 3.8 GPA) to even have a shot at MD school

 

[KOB]

My uncle told me that a possible option is to apply for european or austrilian med schools then do residency at US hospitals. How feasible is this?

 

[Bottle]

Let me break this down for you OP.
1. The only schools that LOOK (not guaranteed acceptance) are high ranked MD schools. You need high stat (at least +3.7 and good MCAT)
2. Do not underestimate the science sections. MCAT, SAT, and all the other crappy standardized tests do not test your knowledge. You can be the best in the field and you will score lower than some kid who prepared for this test 3-months in advance.
3. I paraphrase from Yale admission website, which is that international students need to wake up. Do you know how are you going to pay for MD school? scholarships? loans? daddy? because MD schools will rarely offer you any financial aid.
4. You need to be fluent in English and easy to understand (a little, easy-to understand accent is ok). Remember, only big schools like Harvard, Yale and the others will consider you. What makes you think they want to give a seat for someone that can barely speak good English over qualified American/Canadian, or even another international student who is more fluent than you?

If you read all these 4 points and think you are fine, than go ahead and continue your pre-med studies and I wish you luck 🙂.
Admission to MD school as international student is straightforward and easy to understand, if you keep it real with yourself.

 

[candbgirl]

OP don't even think about residency in the US if you go to a foreign medical school. By the time you are ready for residency options for FMGs will be scarce. Again, we can't emphasize enough, you have to improve your grades if you want to go to MD school in the US.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk 2

 

[mariambaby3]

My uncle told me that a possible option is to apply for european or austrilian med schools then do residency at US hospitals. How feasible is this?

In 7-8 years time, as an international who graduates from a non-US MD school, this will not be feasible.