Questions regarding application (shadowing)

[Pyrazinamide]

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Hello! I just took my DAT this morning and got an AA of 26, TS of 30. I am an atypical applicant. I did my undergrad in China and came to the US and got my PhD degree in Biology. Here are some of my stats.

- Undergrad from China, GPA 3.7 (which needs to be verified by WES and it takes time)
- PhD in Biology from the US, GPA 3.47
- AA 26, TS 30
- 10 shadowing hours

I know my shadowing hours are so few... Between having a pre-schooler and an infant and a full-time work, I really had to squeeze those hours to go to my dentist for shadowing. And I haven't submitted my application yet. Due to family issues, I only plan to apply to 1-2 dental schools. What do you suggest me to do? Apply now or wait until I gather more shadowing hours? And what number is decent for shadowing hours?

Thank you so much for your thoughts!!!

 

[princeafrica]

In my opinion, everything looks really good! But I really think applying now to just 1-2 dental schools with just 10 hours of shadowing is just kicking yourself in the head. I understand you have a lot on your plate and had to squeeze in those hours but Dental Schools want to see at least 50 and most of them 100+ to be competitive. Shadowing shows that you really want to be a dentist. You will also need to get a letter of recommendation from a dentist, and you will probably ask the letter from that dentist you did the 10 hours with. I think schools will see this letter as MAYBE worthless since they saw you for only 10 hours.

I am totally not trying to be an **s right now I understand that you do not have a lot of time. In my opinion you have really good stats and probably a very interesting background and would try to gather at least between 75 - 100 hours of shadowing. How many volunteering hours do you have? You will also need over 100 volunteer hours because many, if not all, schools are community service oriented and want to see that you are too.

Also many schools have already filled out their pre-December interviews and many will probably have all of them filled out by the time your China undergrad is verified. So you would probably get a post december interview which already has few sits.

If you still wish to apply to those 1-2 schools this cycle, by all means do and I wish you good luck!!

 

[Pyrazinamide]

In my opinion, everything looks really good! But I really think applying now to just 1-2 dental schools with just 10 hours of shadowing is just kicking yourself in the head. I understand you have a lot on your plate and had to squeeze in those hours but Dental Schools want to see at least 50 and most of them 100+ to be competitive. Shadowing shows that you really want to be a dentist. You will also need to get a letter of recommendation from a dentist, and you will probably ask the letter from that dentist you did the 10 hours with. I think schools will see this letter as MAYBE worthless since they saw you for only 10 hours.

I am totally not trying to be an **s right now I understand that you do not have a lot of time. In my opinion you have really good stats and probably a very interesting background and would try to gather at least between 75 - 100 hours of shadowing. How many volunteering hours do you have? You will also need over 100 volunteer hours because many, if not all, schools are community service oriented and want to see that you are too.

Also many schools have already filled out their pre-December interviews and many will probably have all of them filled out by the time your China undergrad is verified. So you would probably get a post december interview which already has few sits.

If you still wish to apply to those 1-2 schools this cycle, by all means do and I wish you good luck!!

First thank you so much for your reply! Really appreciated! So what you are suggesting is to apply next year for 2020 enrollment? I will continue to accumulate shadowing hours to the best of my ability and I actually plan to take next week off just to shadow my dentist! Is a reference letter from a dentist really necessary? As I was thinking to get reference letters from my boss and PhD committee members. Also, how do I prove the number of shadowing hours? Is there some form to be signed by the dentist?

 

[princeafrica]

First thank you so much for your reply! Really appreciated! So what you are suggesting is to apply next year for 2020 enrollment? I will continue to accumulate shadowing hours to the best of my ability and I actually plan to take next week off just to shadow my dentist! Is a reference letter from a dentist really necessary? As I was thinking to get reference letters from my boss and PhD committee members. Also, how do I prove the number of shadowing hours? Is there some form to be signed by the dentist?

Yes I am suggesting next cycle! Umm you would have to look on the website of each schools you want to apply to see their letter of recommendation requirement. I do not think it is necessary for all dental schools but I believe there is a bunch that require it. I am not sure since I had one so I didn't look much into it while applying.

Question: Will you be applying as a U.S applicant or an international applicant? I bring this up because I think many schools will require that pre-requisite classes are taken in the U.S. Your stats are high so you might be thinking of Columbia. For example they require that all your pre-requisite classes be taken in the U.S and they will not waive those classes just because you have taken upper level classes for your PhD.

The number of shadowing hours are on an honor system. You report the number of hours on your application and the dentists contact information. You check a box asking if you agree to AADSAS contacting them to check but I am not sure if they really check or they just do a random lottery check. But basically all the hours and activities you report on your application are on the honor system so just honesty.

 

[Pyrazinamide]

Yes I am suggesting next cycle! Umm you would have to look on the website of each schools you want to apply to see their letter of recommendation requirement. I do not think it is necessary for all dental schools but I believe there is a bunch that require it. I am not sure since I had one so I didn't look much into it while applying.

Question: Will you be applying as a U.S applicant or an international applicant? I bring this up because I think many schools will require that pre-requisite classes are taken in the U.S. Your stats are high so you might be thinking of Columbia. For example they require that all your pre-requisite classes be taken in the U.S and they will not waive those classes just because you have taken upper level classes for your PhD.

The number of shadowing hours are on an honor system. You report the number of hours on your application and the dentists contact information. You check a box asking if you agree to AADSAS contacting them to check but I am not sure if they really check or they just do a random lottery check. But basically all the hours and activities you report on your application are on the honor system so just honesty.

I am a permanent resident so I think I count as a US applicant. I know some dental school students with similar background and they didn't have to retake those pre-req in the US. And I don't plan to apply to Columbia. lol It is too expensive...

It is really a bummer that I need to wait until next cycle as I am already old. lol But the good things in life are worth waiting for.

 

[princeafrica]

I am a permanent resident so I think I count as a US applicant. I know some dental school students with similar background and they didn't have to retake those pre-req in the US. And I don't plan to apply to Columbia. lol It is too expensive...

It is really a bummer that I need to wait until next cycle as I am already old. lol But the good things in life are worth waiting for.

Lets see if more opinions come in! But that is great if you do not have to retake. Yeah a lot of private schools are around the same cost as Columbia. If you want to go to a cheaper school public schools are the way to go. But public schools also have a lot of very competitive applicants so you would need more shadowing hours in my opinion. Good luck!!

 

[queenki]

Hello! I just took my DAT this morning and got an AA of 26, TS of 30. I am an atypical applicant. I did my undergrad in China and came to the US and got my PhD degree in Biology. Here are some of my stats.

- Undergrad from China, GPA 3.7 (which needs to be verified by WES and it takes time)
- PhD in Biology from the US, GPA 3.47
- AA 26, TS 30
- 10 shadowing hours

I know my shadowing hours are so few... Between having a pre-schooler and an infant and a full-time work, I really had to squeeze those hours to go to my dentist for shadowing. And I haven't submitted my application yet. Due to family issues, I only plan to apply to 1-2 dental schools. What do you suggest me to do? Apply now or wait until I gather more shadowing hours? And what number is decent for shadowing hours?

Thank you so much for your thoughts!!!

Hi,
#1 I would suggest you choose your list of school, and call directly to ask if they won't require you to retake all pre-reqs in US to make sure. Some schools are really strict about it. I know that it is very silly to ask you to do so, since you did your PhD in US !!!!! but technical issue is stupid. So just one call can reassure you so that you don't waste any money on application.

#2 Since you have GC, you are OOS for all schools (not international) and hopefully in state for your current state. How long did you live there after getting GC? (it matters...) for example, Marquette will consider GC holder as WI in state ONLY after the person lives in WI for 12 months AFTER getting GC. It does not matter how long the person has lived in WI before getting GC. This sucks. haha. I lived here in WI for past 9 years and they still don't consider me as in state.

#3 again, make list of schools, check their req for LOR. Most schools require 2 science prof and 1 dentist. so I recommend you get at least one from dentist.

#4 shadowing, you need at least 50+ better 100+. I know, I myself have 2 young kids and a full time researcher. I had to use my vacation time to shadow dentists. I had to use my vacation time to study for DAT. You gotta do what you gotta do. Find a dental office that opens more than 10 hrs a day, most corp office, and do a couple days of 10 hr shadowing. It is hard but you really need 50+. Do it at general practice office.
I did a few days of them from 6:30am till 4:30pm.

#5 If you choose to apply Stony brook, just call them to confirm if they will not require you to take TOEFL again. I know this is insane since you got degree in US. but hey, sometimes you can't understand why things are so against you. They require recent 2 yr of TOEFL no matter what degree you have from US if you are not citizen. ;o; I wish I knew before I wasted my money there...I am not taking it for only one school .....🙁 unless I get invited for interview and get conditional acceptance, which will not happen I know. Most schools will waive that if you get a degree from US.

#6 apply at least 5... 1-2 is just gamble. Also it is not early anymore, and you will take time to get those letter going and shadowing going so I would do at least 5 schools... All depends which school you pick though.

Good luck!

 

[Pyrazinamide]

Hi,
#1 I would suggest you choose your list of school, and call directly to ask if they won't require you to retake all pre-reqs in US to make sure. Some schools are really strict about it. I know that it is very silly to ask you to do so, since you did your PhD in US !!!!! but technical issue is stupid. So just one call can reassure you so that you don't waste any money on application.

#2 Since you have GC, you are OOS for all schools (not international) and hopefully in state for your current state. How long did you live there after getting GC? (it matters...) for example, Marquette will consider GC holder as WI in state ONLY after the person lives in WI for 12 months AFTER getting GC. It does not matter how long the person has lived in WI before getting GC. This sucks. haha. I lived here in WI for past 9 years and they still don't consider me as in state.

#3 again, make list of schools, check their req for LOR. Most schools require 2 science prof and 1 dentist. so I recommend you get at least one from dentist.

#4 shadowing, you need at least 50+ better 100+. I know, I myself have 2 young kids and a full time researcher. I had to use my vacation time to shadow dentists. I had to use my vacation time to study for DAT. You gotta do what you gotta do. Find a dental office that opens more than 10 hrs a day, most corp office, and do a couple days of 10 hr shadowing. It is hard but you really need 50+. Do it at general practice office.
I did a few days of them from 6:30am till 4:30pm.

#5 If you choose to apply Stony brook, just call them to confirm if they will not require you to take TOEFL again. I know this is insane since you got degree in US. but hey, sometimes you can't understand why things are so against you. They require recent 2 yr of TOEFL no matter what degree you have from US if you are not citizen. ;o; I wish I knew before I wasted my money there...I am not taking it for only one school .....🙁 unless I get invited for interview and get conditional acceptance, which will not happen I know. Most schools will waive that if you get a degree from US.

#6 apply at least 5... 1-2 is just gamble. Also it is not early anymore, and you will take time to get those letter going and shadowing going so I would do at least 5 schools... All depends which school you pick though.

Good luck!

Thank you sooooo much! Your suggestions are so helpful! I made notes from them. lol Are you applying this cycle? Are you also in NY area? There aren't many dental schools near me and I cannot go far away from family. So it doesn't leave me many options. Good luck to you!

 

[doc toothache]

You are not exactly the "average" applicant. A school that would send you back to take pre reqs or quibble about the number of shadowing hours is a school that is telling you they are not interested in your application. Needless to say, you will need to provide convincing evidence that you are truly interested in pursuing dentistry. Your main problem is that you appear to be rushing to jump on the application bandwagon and armed yourself with excuses why you have not been timely this go-round. Since you want to limit yourself to "1-2" schools, why not contact them first and discuss your situation with them and be ready to heed their advice?

 

[Pyrazinamide]

You are not exactly the "average" applicant. A school that would send you back to take pre reqs or quibble about the number of shadowing hours is a school that is telling you they are not interested in your application. Needless to say, you will need to provide convincing evidence that you are truly interested in pursuing dentistry. Your main problem is that you appear to be rushing to jump on the application bandwagon and armed yourself with excuses why you have not been timely this go-round. Since you want to limit yourself to "1-2" schools, why not contact them first and discuss your situation with them and be ready to heed their advice?

Well said. Are you saying that I am below average?

 

[doc toothache]

Well said. Are you saying that I am below average?

You are not exactly the "average" applicant. A school that would send you back to take pre reqs or quibble about the number of shadowing hours is a school that is telling you they are not interested in your application. Needless to say, you will need to provide convincing evidence that you are truly interested in pursuing dentistry. Your main problem is that you appear to be rushing to jump on the application bandwagon and armed yourself with excuses why you have not been timely this go-round. Since you want to limit yourself to "1-2" schools, why not contact them first and discuss your situation with them and be ready to heed their advice?

 

[Kim13]

NY , UPenn , havard are accepting international students with foreign courses .
You should call them

 

[queenki]

Thank you sooooo much! Your suggestions are so helpful! I made notes from them. lol Are you applying this cycle? Are you also in NY area? There aren't many dental schools near me and I cannot go far away from family. So it doesn't leave me many options. Good luck to you!

No, I am in WI.

Hey, you are lucky that NY has many schools. Most states have only 1 dental school in the state. some none. Only the huge state like CA, NY, TX, IL has more than 2.. CA has 6? NY has 5? SUNY buffalo, Stony brook, NYU, Columbia, Touro?

It is about commitment. People's family relocate for dental school all the time. If your family can't move, that is your decision, but that reduced your chance greatly.

I have seen many extreme case regarding family arrangement. Some live separately in two far states and mo raised kids, some takes each kid with them and meet once a month, or twice a year. Some even send rest of family to home country, and live here alone for 4-6 years, visit them only during break one-few times a year etc. Some even give birth here, send them to home country for raising new born, and take them back when they are preschool age (while doing 5-7 yr long PhD) and live together again later... etc.

For me, my personal faith is to live together no matter what, so I never lived separately, but we are moving together to wherever I get admission. Kids will have to find new daycare, new schools.

It's your choice, if this isn't huge deal breaker that you won't consider moving whole family, well you only have 1,2 schools to try. ( and hope for the best) or.. you apply more broadly and choose from the options later.

Remember application take a lot of time, effort and money. spending some extra $3-400 to apply a few more is nothing compare to 1 yr loss if you don't get accepted from the 1-2 schools you chose.