Questions regarding VET school:

[MiasmaticHelium]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hello folks, just have some quick questions but will start with some background information. I'm merely trying to evaluate my possibilities here for a doctorate program. I have a pre-med background, clearly. I understand this raises flags in regards to level of interest, but I would not be posting here if I didn't consider it a viable option. What matters to me is the scienceCare-bonding comes naturally with me and would most certainly not be a problem. I have stats to get into medical school, but would like to carefully consider my options:

My stats: cGPA: 3.7, sGPA: 3.9 with Ochem I and II, Gen chem I and II, Physics I and II, and Bio I and II. and associated labs. No C's in any course, and straight A's in the core sciences. No GRE score. Don't think GPA should be an issue. More concerned about the rest of my app: Bachelors in Health Services Mgmt. ECs: Org chem tutor and EMT of 300+ hours. 160 hour internship at a hospital as a quality analyst.

I have no veterinary background.

Will this be the kiss of death for a veterinary school application? Would some shadowing alone suffice?

I have no LOR's for vet school either. Is this a deal breaker?

Also, I won't be able to afford to go back to school to take more pre-reqs, so based on the table I read online my options are limited?

As you can tell, I don't know much. I'm taking data points and would appreciate some direction from a more knowledgeable other. I am willing to work in the right direction to apply.

Thanks

 

[animalrie]

Why do you want to be a vet? All schools require some experience in a veterinary setting. But my concern is that if you haven't shadowed, volunteered, etc. in the field then you really have no way to know if this is the career you would be happiest pursuing.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

You might want to try the What Are My Chances thread.

You absolutely need vet experience - I don't think any school would consider you without experience in the field. Most (if not all) schools require at least one LOR from a veterinarian. The other letters can be from professors or academic advisers who can assess your aptitude for the academic rigor of vet school.

 

[JaynaAli]

Most (if not all) schools require at least one letter of reference from a veterinarian. Most (if not all) schools expect you, if not require you, to have spent time shadowing veterinarians to be considered competitive. Most people have 500 to thousands of hours of veterinary exposure (be it shadowing or paid work), often in several different facets of vet med like small animal, large animal, equine, exotics, etc. Sure, people get in with less, but I'm talking generalities. There is a "What are my chances" thread stickied at the top of the forum if you wanted to see what other potential applicants have for stats. Your grades sound great and there's always a chance a school may overlook below average experience for grades, but without at least some exposure to vet med I personally would not waste time and money applying.

Also, debt to income ratio is a huge issue in vet med. We have similar debt to medical students but nowhere near the income. I STRONGLY recommend that you do some research into that before abandoning the human medicine route. $200,000-300,000 of loan debt on a $65,000 average starting salary isn't something you take on without loving your profession.

 

[MiasmaticHelium]

Thank you very much for your responses. I considered that some would question my motives. However, it's my fault for not clarifying properly - I wouldn't make a decision without shadowing...and I assumed an application without at least shadowing would be nothing. My stance in my post was that based off the science; I'd be surprised if I found myself un-interested. Finances, for me, aren't a deciding factor. I haven't abandoned human medicine - and is still very much a strong possibility - I would like to have all my options together. Make a nice table and weigh pros and cons.

Essentially I was shadowing a physician a few months ago, one of his patients was a vet, and it got a good conversation going. Interesting perspective from two different doctors, who both only had good things to say about veterinary medicine but were hesitant with human medicine (yes - even the M.D!). I'm not sure if I just don't have enough experience yet but it's disappointing to meet all the doctors who are telling me they were just like me and then got burnt out in E.R medicine (insert another specialty here and I'm sure I've come across it...those in the ROAD specialties don't seem to complain, though). Anyways, went home and sat on it, and thought that it'd be worth looking into based on what they had to say. I do like human medicine a lot, but I wanted to have something to compare to. So many people act like your just suppose to have this inherent attraction to the field - and I'm sorry but that's a reason why so many people end up in the wrong field. They don't collect the data points and comparison shop! You can't base a decision on instinct. Without a doubt medicine is my only route though - the thought process, investigative work, and clinical interventions can be fun for a days work.

Just a little bummed out, but not surprised, at the barriers . Mostly on the pre-req side; a lot of schools are straight up requiring public speaking!? Not even recommended... I Well I know from here the most logical route is to get a first-hand look.

Beyond shadowing, how do most garner experience? Volunteer at a veterinary clinic?

Btw, ignore any grammatical mistakes. very tired and off to bed for me!

 

[Caiter92]

I think your first step should be to look at the prereqs for your IS school and the class statistics. Your profile says you're from NC, so look at NCSU. You'll have the best statistical chance of getting accepted there (my IS has a 30% acceptance rate, but out of state is like 5%), plus it'll be far cheaper than going OS. I know you say money isn't a factor, but unless you're independently wealthy and can swing 250k (pretty typical out of state CoA from what I've seen) out of pocket without loans, it really should be.

250k isn't too bad of debt when you can expect to make 100k+ straight of of school, but vets are lucky to make that much ever.

Personally I'm working at an assistant at a clinic to get experience, as well as interning at a wildlife center and volunteering at a farm sanctuary for some breadth. I also have some past experience with exotics. You're going to want a few different experiences.

This is a stupid question, but do you like animals? You're obviously interested in the science and medical side, but being a vet is a pretty thankless job at times. If you don't also have a passion for animals, I can see burn out happening pretty quick.

 

[allykd]

**

 

[missdarjeeling]

Interesting perspective from two different doctors, who both only had good things to say about veterinary medicine but were hesitant with human medicine (yes - even the M.D!). I'm not sure if I just don't have enough experience yet but it's disappointing to meet all the doctors who are telling me they were just like me and then got burnt out in E.R medicine (insert another specialty here and I'm sure I've come across it...those in the ROAD specialties don't seem to complain, though).

It is disappointing to meet people who tell you how burnt out and jaded they are, but that's also been my experience in vet med, too. Most medical professionals, regardless of their credentials and what species they work on, are overworked and stressed, and many suffer from burnout, even if they ultimately love what they do. Even people who can't imagine themselves doing anything else will face these issues sooner or later, and no one's immune from the risk of burnout.

While I think it's very important to listen to what many doctors have to say about their work and experiences in their chosen profession, it's also important for you to be able to contextualize what you're hearing and understand the bigger picture. It doesn't shock me at all that an MD would be gloomy about their work and would be a little starry-eyed about vet med. The nightmare of having to deal with insurance alone would be enough to make any sane person become frustrated with human medicine. Of the friends of mine who went to med school, the ones who are outspoken about their work are quite pessimistic about the profession and have a long list of complaints, from the insanity of patient satisfaction scores to the terrible residents' salaries and everything in between. But I see the same exact thing among the vet med professionals I've worked with -- "This sucks. I wish we were working on humans. Then at least we'd be making more money." At some moments at my old hospital, it seemed like at least half of the vet techs were back in school to get certifications or licensing in some kind of human medicine. When I was first talking to the vet who ended up becoming a sort of mentor to me and who has been practicing for almost 30 years, the first thing he said to me was, "This profession has been very good to me, but I tell anyone and everyone who wants to get into it these days that they're better off using their talents to go to medical school instead."

The only way to figure out which type of medicine is the best fit for you is to shadow and get as much first-hand experience as you need to get a good feel for how things work. Only you will be able to tell which one is right. Just know that no matter what you choose, it's inevitable that there will be times when the grass on the other side of the fence looks greener. And understand that no matter how much you love whichever one you pick, you will still likely be dealing with doubt and burnout at some point during your career. That seems to be the nature of high-stress professions across the board.

 

[twelvetigers]

Finances, for me, aren't a deciding factor.

Make very sure you mean it before you say it. Like $200k in debt (or not, perhaps, in your case) and making a whopping $60k a year sort of mean it. If so - congrats. That is (or should be) a big hang-up for most people.

I'm not sure if I just don't have enough experience yet but it's disappointing to meet all the doctors who are telling me they were just like me and then got burnt out in E.R medicine...

Burn out is not at all uncommon in vet med either. Euthanasias, uncooperative and unwilling clients, long hours. The guy that is finally losing his foot due to his uncontrolled diabetes is one thing. The dog that is the sweetest, kindest thing that has very manageable issues but unwilling owners that go on to chastise you for charging money because, if you love animals, you should do it for free...

There is burn out.

 

[DVMDream]

Go shadow a few vets before you decide anything. Vet med isn't like human med where you pull out everything to save a person. Puppy with a complicated fracture and owner's have no money, euthanize. People who wait for weeks or months to come to you then blame you when it is now too expensive or too late to save their pet. I think you need a good looking into what vet med involves then decide what you are really interested in. Medicine is very interesting but often times in vet med you don't get to do everything you could do because of cost or unwilling owners.

 

[MiasmaticHelium]

Make very sure you mean it before you say it. Like $200k in debt (or not, perhaps, in your case) and making a whopping $60k a year sort of mean it. If so - congrats. That is (or should be) a big hang-up for most people.



Burn out is not at all uncommon in vet med either. Euthanasias, uncooperative and unwilling clients, long hours. The guy that is finally losing his foot due to his uncontrolled diabetes is one thing. The dog that is the sweetest, kindest thing that has very manageable issues but unwilling owners that go on to chastise you for charging money because, if you love animals, you should do it for free...

There is burn out.

Your post seems to address a few questions some others had. Firstly, I do love animals. I've grown up with them my entire life - and been around many different types: chinchillas, cats, and dogs mostly. I find the varying anatomy and physiology refreshing. In regards to finances, as long as I have enough to make a modest living then I will be happy.

But looks like unless I want to move out of the country then I'll have to trek back for undergraduate studies. Nonetheless I'll still shadow considering that'll give me the exposure I'm looking for.

Thanks a lot for your responses. You've all been very helpful.

 

[Gwenevre]

Your post seems to address a few questions some others had. Firstly, I do love animals. I've grown up with them my entire life - and been around many different types: chinchillas, cats, and dogs mostly. I find the varying anatomy and physiology refreshing. In regards to finances, as long as I have enough to make a modest living then I will be happy.

But looks like unless I want to move out of the country then I'll have to trek back for undergraduate studies. Nonetheless I'll still shadow considering that'll give me the exposure I'm looking for.

Thanks a lot for your responses. You've all been very helpful.

Just warning you, you might not.

 

[twelvetigers]

Just warning you, you might not.

Yeah... "Meager" may be a better word choice. But it depends on what tuition you agree to pay and what you pursue when you graduate. Sort of. I mean, oncology or derm do pay more, but those extra four years of compounding interest while you work for peanuts can be hard to catch up with.

It's not that you want to be a vet and we're all going "Nooooo, you'll be poor forever!" It's that you have considered other fields that have a much better ROI and now you are scuffing your toes in the sand thinking, "Well gawsh, maybe I could like vet med?"

If it's not something you HAVE to do to complete yourself and be a whole person, if it's not the one thing that will make you happy... I'd try to steer another way.

How terrible is that? It's pretty terrible. But when I said to make sure you meant it when you said money wasn't an issue, I assumed you meant you inherited $150k from your dead aunt and you plan to remain debt free. Not that you think you can get by living modestly. Because that may not be the case.

 

[MiasmaticHelium]

Yeah... "Meager" may be a better word choice. But it depends on what tuition you agree to pay and what you pursue when you graduate. Sort of. I mean, oncology or derm do pay more, but those extra four years of compounding interest while you work for peanuts can be hard to catch up with.

It's not that you want to be a vet and we're all going "Nooooo, you'll be poor forever!" It's that you have considered other fields that have a much better ROI and now you are scuffing your toes in the sand thinking, "Well gawsh, maybe I could like vet med?"

If it's not something you HAVE to do to complete yourself and be a whole person, if it's not the one thing that will make you happy... I'd try to steer another way.

How terrible is that? It's pretty terrible. But when I said to make sure you meant it when you said money wasn't an issue, I assumed you meant you inherited $150k from your dead aunt and you plan to remain debt free. Not that you think you can get by living modestly. Because that may not be the case.

Wow, that's pretty funny because the E.R doc I shadowed said something along the same lines: If you ever wanted to do something else, do that...but if you can't see yourself in any other profession then sure come to medicine. Sometimes I do think those in medicine have forgotten how terrible other professions are.. I'd rather make a measly living walking around and interacting with others then drooling behind a desk 😛 but I can see the point you are making. But money isn't an issue because I have been well off in that my entire undergraduate career has been financially covered. Dang, I knew veterinary medicine was not a road to financial freedom and luxury..but didn't know it was that bad. Was there any point in time where it was different salary wise? Does where you practice play a heavy influence?

 

[DVMDream]

Your post seems to address a few questions some others had. Firstly, I do love animals. I've grown up with them my entire life - and been around many different types: chinchillas, cats, and dogs mostly. I find the varying anatomy and physiology refreshing. In regards to finances, as long as I have enough to make a modest living then I will be happy.

But looks like unless I want to move out of the country then I'll have to trek back for undergraduate studies. Nonetheless I'll still shadow considering that'll give me the exposure I'm looking for.

Thanks a lot for your responses. You've all been very helpful.

You have to shadow. You need vet experience to apply to vet school. More so than human med. Medical school expects a little shadowing. Vet school wants a few hundred hours of experience and in various aspects. It isn't just a, "oh I'll shadow for a few weeks and be done".

Really this thread needs to just end with a go shadow a vet as you have no way to say you'll even enjoy vet med right now. So go shadow. And seriously consider the financial aspect.

 

[jmo1012]

Wow, that's pretty funny because the E.R doc I shadowed said something along the same lines: If you ever wanted to do something else, do that...but if you can't see yourself in any other profession then sure come to medicine. Sometimes I do think those in medicine have forgotten how terrible other professions are.. I'd rather make a measly living walking around and interacting with others then drooling behind a desk 😛 but I can see the point you are making. But money isn't an issue because I have been well off in that my entire undergraduate career has been financially covered. Dang, I knew veterinary medicine was not a road to financial freedom and luxury..but didn't know it was that bad. Was there any point in time where it was different salary wise? Does where you practice play a heavy influence?

i think you're still missing part of the equation. People are warning you heavily about the poor pay, not because living on a meager salary is the end of the world, but because the whole picture is often gloomy. you are stacking a meager salary with heavy loan repayment burden, long hours with little time off ever, the realities of sick pets with clients who either don't care or can't afford to fix the fixable, the fatigue of client dissatisfaction on a daily basis, the burden of clients constantly trying to steal from you (everyone wants top quality everything but no one wants to pay for those services rendered), the list goes on. on top of all of this, the job market is currently not very good. schools are graduating more vets into a market that cant support that number. more people are pursuing specialty training to the point that those fields are over saturated. couple all of this with loan repayments at several thousand dollars a month, and yes, the doom and gloom starts to feel more real. there are plenty of happy vets out there. there are plenty of vets that have a decent lifestyle. there are plenty of vets that wouldn't change anything in the world and love what they do every single day. don't lose sight of the happy people, BUT, i think it is extremely important to heed the warnings of the unhappy people, because its not just a small handful of unhappy vets. worst case scenario, you jump into this and end up unable to get a job or a decent job and are then stuck with $150k-200+ in loans to pay back and no good way of doing so. The average vet debt has climbed $20k since i started vet school (was $150k, now is something like 170k). You can bet that by the time you graduate, it will be even higher and the job market may not be any better.

where money used to not be as crazy was when the cost of education wasnt as outrageous as it currently is, but that was more than 10 years ago. be sure you're asking the people you shadow what they accumulated and how it has affected their lives. also, yes where you practice influences how much you make, but often times you're making more but have a higher cost of living (for example, a friend of mine is going to southern california to practice. starting salaries for vets there are $110k+, simply because no one can afford to live for less than that. her starting salary is comparable to starting at $60k in a more average area). depends on the type of practice you work at too (small vs. mixed. vs. large, etc)

 

[Minnerbelle]

But money isn't an issue because I have been well off in that my entire undergraduate career has been financially covered.

Well it still should be an issue unless you have a cheap in state school you can go to and get accepted at.

Cause... my entire undergrad was covered, my parents paid $100k+ of my vet school tuition, I made like $20k during vet school, and I still needed to take out over $135k in loans.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I'd rather make a measly living walking around and interacting with others then drooling behind a desk 😛

No one is saying you need to go drool behind a desk... There are financially rewarding careers out there that involve interacting with others. Vet med just isn't one of them.

And I can assure you that interaction isn't necessarily a good thing. Vet med is such a customer service oriented field, a lot of interactions just plain suck. So many clients just resent you just for needing to get paid for your services.

 

[MiasmaticHelium]

You have to shadow. You need vet experience to apply to vet school. More so than human med. Medical school expects a little shadowing. Vet school wants a few hundred hours of experience and in various aspects. It isn't just a, "oh I'll shadow for a few weeks and be done".

Really this thread needs to just end with a go shadow a vet as you have no way to say you'll even enjoy vet med right now. So go shadow. And seriously consider the financial aspect.

Just stated the post before my last that I was going to shadow. but thanks for the emphasis on # of hours needed

 

[MiasmaticHelium]

Well it still should be an issue unless you have a cheap in state school you can go to and get accepted at.

Cause... my entire undergrad was covered, my parents paid $100k+ of my vet school tuition, I made like $20k during vet school, and I still needed to take out over $135k in loans.

Are you regretting your decision to go to VET school? And also by saying money is not an issue, I am implying that I do not care to be financially well off. But alright I'm heeding the warning: I may only be able to afford a sustainable living equatable to relative poverty.

A lot of what your saying applies to human medicine... A lot of interactions just plain suck both ways. I told you guys I was an EMT and there has been such a heavy emphasis on the "hardships" of dealing with patient/animal interaction. You guys don't think I know what it's like to deal with bad interactions? 🙄 Or the hardships of having to put an animal down? Anyways, I do understand that getting stolen from and being treated like you shouldn't be paid IS a big issue. but having to put down puppies and what not is nothing out of the realm I have not personally dealt with (I'm not trying to trivialize this, but rather stating that I know how hard this can be and that I've dealt with some VERY difficult circumstances as an EMT). Putting down a puppy and experiencing a patient w/ severe pediatric trauma to the point of them now living a life as a vegetable (yes, I've dealt with this) are both going to be very traumatic. I get that. Lets move on from the "do you have the guts" type of questions. And "a lot of interactions just plain suck." That's medicine in general..

 

[DVMDream]

Are you regretting your decision to go to VET school?

A lot of what your saying applies to human medicine... A lot of interactions just plain suck both ways. I told you guys I was an EMT and there has been such a heavy emphasis on the "hardships" of dealing with patient/animal interaction. You guys don't think I know what it's like to deal with bad interactions? 🙄 Or the hardships of having to put an animal down? Anyways, I do understand that getting stolen from and being treated like you shouldn't be paid IS a big issue. but having to put down puppies and what not is nothing out of the realm I have not personally dealt with (I'm not trying to trivialize this, but rather stating that I know how hard this can be and that I've dealt with some VERY difficult circumstances as an EMT) . Not saying any more difficult, just saying lets deviate away from "do you have the guts to do this" type of questions

You can't comprehend the difficulties of a profession without actually witnessing it first hand. I have no doubt you have seen difficult things as an EMT, but they will be different and can't be compared. Unless you are euthanizing animals as an EMT (which I sure as hell hope you aren't) then you aren't going to understand the difficulty in euthanasia. However, that isn't even the worst part of vet work, you simply won't understand what we are talking about until you go and actually experience it. So, quit the eye-rolling and take the advice that people are offering you. And actually consider what people who have been in the field for many years are telling you. Especially when it comes to the finances involved in a veterinary education, because you still seem to think it will all just be "ok". Ask yourself these questions:

Do you ever want to own a house? How about buy a new car? Do you want to retire some day? Would you like to not eat like a college student for 20+ years after you graduate?

There is a good possibility that vet med won't allow you to do any of those things. So, you REALLY need to consider what we are saying instead of just rolling your eyes and ignoring us.

 

[LetItSnow]

Sometimes I do think those in medicine have forgotten how terrible other professions are..

I've worked in three majorly different fields in my 'adult' life now and in every one there have been people who make the worst of it and would tell you "if you could consider doing anything else, do it." And side by side with them are people who love what they do.

Not that the issues people are highlighting in vet med related to income debt aren't real.... They are. Just..... I always consider that people tend toward exaggerating the bad AND the good. It's human nature. And, you have to factor in that person A who has $300k in loans in a crappy job with an awful boss is going to give you different feedback than the person B who has $100k in loans in a great job with a supportive boss. We love to throw out the average debt - but it's important to remember that it's an average and that the small print in those stats usually says it's the average debt of people who have debt upon graduation. There are 10% of people in my school who graduated with ZERO debt. This could be pretty damn good field for them or the people who are on the low end of the debt curve.

 

[MiasmaticHelium]

You can't comprehend the difficulties of a profession without actually witnessing it first hand. I have no doubt you have seen difficult things as an EMT, but they will be different and can't be compared. Unless you are euthanizing animals as an EMT (which I sure as hell hope you aren't) then you aren't going to understand the difficulty in euthanasia. However, that isn't even the worst part of vet work, you simply won't understand what we are talking about until you go and actually experience it. So, quit the eye-rolling and take the advice that people are offering you. And actually consider what people who have been in the field for many years are telling you. Especially when it comes to the finances involved in a veterinary education, because you still seem to think it will all just be "ok". Ask yourself these questions:

Do you ever want to own a house? How about buy a new car? Do you want to retire some day? Would you like to not eat like a college student for 20+ years after you graduate?

There is a good possibility that vet med won't allow you to do any of those things. So, you REALLY need to consider what we are saying instead of just rolling your eyes and ignoring us.

I'm not ignoring anybody. I said the financial aspect is heeded. But please don't act like you have to be "ready" for the emotional aspect. I can make a comparison that both situations would lead to similar emotions. Also, you have no idea what type of life I've lived do make those types of comments.

 

[jmo1012]

You can't comprehend the difficulties of a profession without actually witnessing it first hand. I have no doubt you have seen difficult things as an EMT, but they will be different and can't be compared. Unless you are euthanizing animals as an EMT (which I sure as hell hope you aren't) then you aren't going to understand the difficulty in euthanasia. However, that isn't even the worst part of vet work, you simply won't understand what we are talking about until you go and actually experience it. So, quit the eye-rolling and take the advice that people are offering you. And actually consider what people who have been in the field for many years are telling you. Especially when it comes to the finances involved in a veterinary education, because you still seem to think it will all just be "ok". Ask yourself these questions:

Do you ever want to own a house? How about buy a new car? Do you want to retire some day? Would you like to not eat like a college student for 20+ years after you graduate?

There is a good possibility that vet med won't allow you to do any of those things. So, you REALLY need to consider what we are saying instead of just rolling your eyes and ignoring us.

I think it's obvious this person posted here to get a pat on the back for having good grades and a ton of medical experience and knowledge. We are wasting our time trying to advise someone who isn't actually looking for advice. Hopefully when they've dug their own grave later in life, they have friends and family around to help them out. 🙄

 

[DVMDream]

I'm not ignoring anybody. I said the financial aspect is heeded. But please don't act like you have to be "ready" for the emotional aspect. I can make a comparison that both situations would lead to similar emotions.

You do need to prepare yourself for certain things that happen in vet med that don't happen in human med. I am not saying they don't have similar emotional aspects, they do. But when was the last time a human doctor euthanized a healthy person simply because they had a broken limb? Or skip that, when was the last time a doctor euthanized a healthy person with nothing wrong with them at all (animal shelter medicine where healthy animals are euthanized every day)? When was the last time a doctor determined if the treatment was worth more than what the actual person is worth and therefore killed the person?? (like what happens multiple times a day in farm animal med)?

You simply can't just sit there and state that you worked as an EMT so you know what emotional aspects and implications occur in veterinary medicine. Just like I can't say that I know what you have seen as an EMT. I can comfortably say that you have never drawn up a syringe of euthanasia solution and injected it into a healthy person.

That is only a very small aspect and not even the most difficult aspect of the job. Like I stated, don't roll your eyes at things you don't understand yet. I am not trying to scare you away from veterinary medicine nor am I suggesting that you can't handle these aspects of the career, just that you aren't yet aware of them. And you have not yet witnessed them. You need to shadow first before you make a decision on if vet med is right for you or not, which you have already stated you will go shadow.

And like LIS stated, you are going to get a lot of different reactions from the complete gloom and doom all the way to the over the top joyful and reality is probably somewhere in between the two. You will probably get this from every profession out there.

 

[Caiter92]

But please don't act like you have to be "ready" for the emotional aspect.

I'm really not sure what you mean here. You DO have to be ready for the emotional aspect. Compassion fatigue and burn out are abundant in vetmed. Yes, I'm sure you've seen difficult things. But it's not the same. Not saying the things you've seen are any less difficult than aspects of vetmed, but they are different. You can't say I've experienced A, so I can handle B. You won't know how you handle the difficult aspects of vetmed until you've experienced them.

 

[MiasmaticHelium]

I think it's obvious this person posted here to get a pat on the back for having good grades and a ton of medical experience and knowledge. We are wasting our time trying to advise someone who isn't actually looking for advice. Hopefully when they've dug their own grave later in life, they have friends and family around to help them out. 🙄

Are you kidding me? Did you read all my posts or just the last one? I have NOT disrespected this profession. I'm simply stating - alright the first several posts mentioned how difficult ved med can be emotionally/physically/financially,etc.. But then people keep posting about the emotional aspect as if I have no clue what tragedy is.

 

[MiasmaticHelium]

You do need to prepare yourself for certain things that happen in vet med that don't happen in human med. I am not saying they don't have similar emotional aspects, they do. But when was the last time a human doctor euthanized a healthy person simply because they had a broken limb? Or skip that, when was the last time a doctor euthanized a healthy person with nothing wrong with them at all (animal shelter medicine where healthy animals are euthanized every day)? When was the last time a doctor determined if the treatment was worth more than what the actual person is worth and therefore killed the person?? (like what happens multiple times a day in farm animal med)?

You simply can't just sit there and state that you worked as an EMT so you know what emotional aspects and implications occur in veterinary medicine. Just like I can't say that I know what you have seen as an EMT. I can comfortably say that you have never drawn up a syringe of euthanasia solution and injected it into a healthy person.

That is only a very small aspect and not even the most difficult aspect of the job. Like I stated, don't roll your eyes at things you don't understand yet. I am not trying to scare you away from veterinary medicine nor am I suggesting that you can't handle these aspects of the career, just that you aren't yet aware of them. And you have not yet witnessed them. You need to shadow first before you make a decision on if vet med is right for you or not, which you have already stated you will go shadow.

And like LIS stated, you are going to get a lot of different reactions from the complete gloom and doom all the way to the over the top joyful and reality is probably somewhere in between the two. You will probably get this from every profession out there.

Yes, I can. What is the difference between a ten year old girl ejected from a motor vehicle because her mother didn't put her daughter's seat belt on, resulting in a life as a vegetable... and a healthy puppy having to be euthanized? They are both tragedies. If you guys are this sensitive to somebody who has clearly been asking genuine questions then I really hate to see how you respond to all the other insensitive jerks on SDN.

 

[jmo1012]

Are you kidding me? Did you read all my posts or just the last one? I have NOT disrespected this profession. I'm simply stating - alright the first several posts mentioned how difficult ved med can be emotionally/physically/financially,etc.. But then people keep posting about the emotional aspect as if I have no clue what tragedy is.

yep i've read them all and your theme over and over again to everything anyone says is that you already get it. since you have no veterinary experience aside from dealings with your own pets, im not really certain where you think that you have such a good handle on "tragedy" in the veterinary field. so good luck to you, life is significantly harder for those who hear only what the wish to.

 

[Caiter92]

The difference is in human med you can do everything you can to help the patient, because your obligation is to the patient themselves.

In vetmed, your obligation is to the client. You can't always do everything you can for your patient if the client doesn't want to (or can't) pay, or doesn't feel the pet is worth it. It sucks, and elicits totally different emotions.

 

[DVMDream]

Yes, I can. What is the difference between a ten year old girl ejected from a motor vehicle because her mother didn't put her daughter's seat belt on, resulting in a life as a vegetable... and a healthy puppy having to be euthanized? They are both tragedies. One could even argue that it would be much worse for a little girl to have to be forced to live such a miserable life.

It is different. No one is arguing that things that happen in human medicine aren't horrible or difficult. It is just different.

However, it is absolutely pointless to keep arguing with you about it because in your mind, you are right. You clearly already KNOW how things are in vetmed so why bother trying to explain it to you? Hell, why even bother shadowing a vet? I mean all that EMT work taught you exactly how life will be like as a vet because clearly EMT= veterinarian.

 

[MiasmaticHelium]

yep i've read them all and your theme over and over again to everything anyone says is that you already get it. since you have no veterinary experience aside from dealings with your own pets, im not really certain where you think that you have such a good handle on "tragedy" in the veterinary field. so good luck to you, life is significantly harder for those who hear only what the wish to.

The only thing I said is that I get tragedy. I never said I understand the day in the life of a vet. I said I heed the financial advice. I heeded the educational advice. I heeded the experience advice. At no point in time did I say I know what a vet's life is like. All I said is it's kinda annoying to hear: "some interactions just suck." As if I have no idea what that's like.. And then you went on some anger-rampage about how I shouldn't roll my eyes.

If somebody acts like I don't know that "some interactions just suck," I'm definitely going to roll my eyes. I agree it's not the same exact thing, but both interactions "just suck."

 

[DVMDream]

If you guys are this sensitive to somebody who has clearly been asking genuine questions then I really hate to see how you respond to all the other insensitive jerks on SDN.

Maybe you need to reconsider how your posts are coming off to people? We've been nicely answering your questions, but you keep coming back with an "oh I get it" or "oh that won't bother me". Eye rolling indicates you are annoyed, so you're annoyed that we are informing you about aspects of vet med that aren't going to be like anything you've witnessed before? Really?

You keep repeating over and over that you're an EMT so you "get it", but you don't. You can't understand aspects of vet med until you've witnessed vet med. That is what we're saying.

It'd be like someone telling you that they "get" what the emotional aspect of being an EMT is like because they were once transported by an ambulance somewhere. Or because they are a vet or a vet tech. Or whatever. It's ridiculous, right?

 

[katryn]

So, I am sort of intentionally ignoring the current dialogue and giving my response to the initial post.

Here's my two cents:
1. Get some shadowing experience first. Human med and vet med are similar, but also very different. And those differences may very well be a turn off for you. For instance, I tolerate suffering puppy euthanasias with a little bit of emotional support but find the idea of pediatric trauma crippling just to think about.
2. Based on what you listed about yourself, you probably will have to go back and take some classes, or be limited in your choices of where to go. (On a side note, I think it's good that public speech is on the rise as a pre-req. there are plenty of days where my ability to communicate effectively has a direct impact on what my clients are willing to do.)
3. Seriously consider the debt:income issue. I know you said you are ok with a modest income, but make sure you actually have an idea of what the dollar amounts look like.
Personally, I have ~145k in debt, I made 41k the first year out and don't make a whole lot more now. This means I have about 1700$ a month to live on after paying my loans. In the area we live, I could barely afford all of my bills on that, and would be struggling to cover gas and groceries for one person. Thank goodness I'm married and the hubs makes good money.
There are some great loan and budget calculators out there, so I would encourage you to do your homework for both fields. I'm sure human med debt isn't all daisies and roses either.

Hope that helps. If not, I tried. 🙂

 

[dyachei]

the difference between a peds trauma ending in death and euthanizing a puppy is that YOU are killing the patient. Even if it is for a good reason, you are causing death. Puppies do also get hit by cars and don't do well and die. But it is completely different

 

[twelvetigers]

This 9 year old girl that just got ejected from a car has several broken limbs and needs a blood transfusion. She will have to be placed in critical care for at least a week. She could very well recover from her injuries and go on to lead a normal life.

And then that's exactly what happens, even if she doesn't have insurance.

In vet med, the parents go, "Well, how much would something like that cost? WHAT? I can't afford that. What are my other options? That's still to expensive. Can't you do anything? Don't you want her to live?"

And then you euthanize her so she doesn't suffer rather than save her.

 

[twelvetigers]

We wouldn't be pounding the doom and gloom of it all if you hadn't shrugged and said "Whatever, I'll be fine" after the first couple of comments. It just shows us that you don't get it. And we want you to understand.

 

[Minnerbelle]

A lot of what your saying applies to human medicine... A lot of interactions just plain suck both ways. I told you guys I was an EMT and there has been such a heavy emphasis on the "hardships" of dealing with patient/animal interaction. You guys don't think I know what it's like to deal with bad interactions? 🙄 Or the hardships of having to put an animal down? Anyways, I do understand that getting stolen from and being treated like you shouldn't be paid IS a big issue. but having to put down puppies and what not is nothing out of the realm I have not personally dealt with (I'm not trying to trivialize this, but rather stating that I know how hard this can be and that I've dealt with some VERY difficult circumstances as an EMT). Putting down a puppy and experiencing a patient w/ severe pediatric trauma to the point of them now living a life as a vegetable (yes, I've dealt with this) are both going to be very traumatic. I get that. Lets move on from the "do you have the guts" type of questions. And "a lot of interactions just plain suck." That's medicine in general..

I never said that you don't get bad interactions in medicine... I wasn't telling you to go into medicine either.

If you think the types of interactions you get in medicine and vet med is the same, however, you are wrong.

None of the things you mention here are remotely relevant to the types of issues I was talking about. I'm going to stop explaining at this point because you've made up your mind that as an EMT you "get it," but your lack of experience makes it such that you don't even realize what you don't know.

You seem to think that we are all trying to dissuade you from becoming a vet. I don't care what career you decide to go into. Become a vet if you want (and are able to). All I'm trying to say is that you should have your facts straight before you go in. I was just pointing out things that you seemed to not understand based on your posts.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Are you regretting your decision to go to VET school? And also by saying money is not an issue, I am implying that I do not care to be financially well off. But alright I'm heeding the warning: I may only be able to afford a sustainable living equatable to relative poverty.

No I personally don't regret my decision to go to vet school. But I had been in the field 7 years prior to matriculating in one fashion or another. That and I'm personally not bad off financially.

There are plenty of people who are happy and those who seriously regret their decisions. You can end up anywhere along that spectrum. Your chances of being happy will be much greater if you understood the profession prior to committing to it. That's really all anyone is saying.

 

[MiasmaticHelium]

Maybe you need to reconsider how your posts are coming off to people? We've been nicely answering your questions, but you keep coming back with an "oh I get it" or "oh that won't bother me". Eye rolling indicates you are annoyed, so you're annoyed that we are informing you about aspects of vet med that aren't going to be like anything you've witnessed before? Really?

You keep repeating over and over that you're an EMT so you "get it", but you don't. You can't understand aspects of vet med until you've witnessed vet med. That is what we're saying.

It'd be like someone telling you that they "get" what the emotional aspect of being an EMT is like because they were once transported by an ambulance somewhere. Or because they are a vet or a vet tech. Or whatever. It's ridiculous, right?

We could both go at this for sometime. My response at this point is going to strictly address what prompted my response in the first place: If a vet student/vet says "a lot of interactions just plain suck" when trying to explain vet medicine to an EMT, the EMT is going to say, "well yeah, I can definitely relate to that."

But a lot of what you guys say has applied to human medicine for the longest time before obamacare. There are financial barriers that prevent access to healthcare, it's just far worse in veterinary medicine (I'm sure there is plenty of examples of humans who have even died from inaccessibility to healthcare strictly due to finances). I've heard the same conversation with patients at the EMS level: I can't afford that or this therefore I'm stuck this way...Just far less common for somebody I can relate, but I do not know..Hopefully that sounds better and explains my attitude.

I'm sure you see how the two fields relate. If not, you'd know it if some dumb doc said to you: "I lost a patient, you couldn't have ANY idea what that feels like." You'd probably want to smack him 🙂

 

[DVMDream]

In vet med, the parents go, "Well, how much would something like that cost? WHAT? I can't afford that. What are my other options? That's still to expensive. Can't you do anything? Don't you want her to live?"

And then you euthanize her so she doesn't suffer rather than save her.

And then the owner goes around and tells all of their friends about the "evil vet" who wouldn't save their dog because all they wanted was money and the vet didn't even care about their dog. Some of them even take this ranting to the internet and you get things like this:

http://www.minbcnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=1024178#.VXC32M9VgSU

Which then progress into the veterinary clinic getting hate calls and death threats.

 

[Foxhunter]

And then the owner goes around and tells all of their friends about the "evil vet" who wouldn't save their dog because all they wanted was money and the vet didn't even care about their dog. Some of them even take this ranting to the internet and you get things like this:

http://www.minbcnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=1024178#.VXC32M9VgSU

Which then progress into the veterinary clinic getting hate calls and death threats.

And people harass them and sometimes it gets really ugly.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...n-suicide-cat-custody-fight-article-1.1701820

 

[Foxhunter]

Hello folks, just have some quick questions but will start with some background information. I'm merely trying to evaluate my possibilities here for a doctorate program. I have a pre-med background, clearly. I understand this raises flags in regards to level of interest, but I would not be posting here if I didn't consider it a viable option. What matters to me is the scienceCare-bonding comes naturally with me and would most certainly not be a problem. I have stats to get into medical school, but would like to carefully consider my options:

My stats: cGPA: 3.7, sGPA: 3.9 with Ochem I and II, Gen chem I and II, Physics I and II, and Bio I and II. and associated labs. No C's in any course, and straight A's in the core sciences. No GRE score. Don't think GPA should be an issue. More concerned about the rest of my app: Bachelors in Health Services Mgmt. ECs: Org chem tutor and EMT of 300+ hours. 160 hour internship at a hospital as a quality analyst.

I have no veterinary background.

Will this be the kiss of death for a veterinary school application? Would some shadowing alone suffice?

I have no LOR's for vet school either. Is this a deal breaker?

Also, I won't be able to afford to go back to school to take more pre-reqs, so based on the table I read online my options are limited?

As you can tell, I don't know much. I'm taking data points and would appreciate some direction from a more knowledgeable other. I am willing to work in the right direction to apply.

Thanks

With 400 hours of vet experience you would almost certainly get into NCSU In-State.

If you have a ton of research experience and pretend that you want to be a lab animal veterinarian or clinician scientist you could probably get in with 100-200 hours.

NCSU is one of the cheapest veterinary schools in the country.

 

[DVMDream]

I'm sure you see how the two fields relate. If not, you'd know it if some dumb doc said to you: "I lost a patient, you couldn't have ANY idea what that feels like." You'd probably want to smack him 🙂

 

[dyachei]

I'm sure you see how the two fields relate. If not, you'd know it if some dumb doc said to you: "I lost a patient, you couldn't have ANY idea what that feels like." You'd probably want to smack him 🙂

you know, i can say with certainty that I have no idea what losing a human life feels like. Because it is different. Yes, when an animal loses its life, I feel very guilty, etc. But the short and sweet is that people and animals are different.

 

[Lupin21]

It is so interesting to see the viewpoints from people who are either human med or vet med with no crossover. A classmate of mine has been accepted to human med side after two years into schooling with mostly vet background and is making the switch now, so I have asked him to keep a document detailing the differences, both factually based and fundamentally flawed from lack of knowledge based. If he can do it, I am extremely intrigued by what may be presented. A completely unbiased, fact based thought process is basically impossible to come across, so I hope for some insight just out of curiosity.

 

[Minnerbelle]

you know, i can say with certainty that I have no idea what losing a human life feels like. Because it is different. Yes, when an animal loses its life, I feel very guilty, etc. But the short and sweet is that people and animals are different.

Agreed. I would not be offended at all at that statement as I haven't a clue what it would be like to lose a human patient. How it would be to leave a child orphaned, a person widowed or childless. I can't relate to that at all.

 

[Minnerbelle]

On the other hand, I wouldn't expect an MD to understand how it is like to need to euthanize a totally treatable patient due to finances, and then have to tell the already pissed off grieving owners who hate me that it wouldn't advise home burial because I need to decapitate their beloved fluffy to send the head off for rabies testing since fluffy bit someone within the last 10 days. Huh... Well it's extra awkward that they can't afford even group cremation, and how barbaric am I to suggest that this is even a thing.

 

[Bunny Blaster]

We could both go at this for sometime. My response at this point is going to strictly address what prompted my response in the first place: If a vet student/vet says "a lot of interactions just plain suck" when trying to explain vet medicine to an EMT, the EMT is going to say, "well yeah, I can definitely relate to that."

But a lot of what you guys say has applied to human medicine for the longest time before obamacare. There are financial barriers that prevent access to healthcare, it's just far worse in veterinary medicine (I'm sure there is plenty of examples of humans who have even died from inaccessibility to healthcare strictly due to finances). I've heard the same conversation with patients at the EMS level: I can't afford that or this therefore I'm stuck this way...Just far less common for somebody I can relate, but I do not know..Hopefully that sounds better and explains my attitude.

I'm sure you see how the two fields relate. If not, you'd know it if some dumb doc said to you: "I lost a patient, you couldn't have ANY idea what that feels like." You'd probably want to smack him 🙂

I'm honestly not sure why everyone seems to be so bent on persuading you out of going into vet med or harping on how you cannot comprehend what the profession is like. Vet med and human medicine have their similarities and differences, and many here have pointed out the differences (and difficulties) for you to consider. I think its commendable for you to show interest in vet med as a possible career option considering how many other health profession careers have better prospects out there. From what I've seen (I haven't read every single post), you've shown no disrespect for this profession and have been taking everyone's advice with an open-mind. That being said, I hope you continue to have that mentality as you go on to shadow a veterinarian and explore the profession in more depth. I know you said you don't care about finances or living a meager lifestyle, and I just want to say that although many here have brought up great points in comparing debt vs compensation, there are always people who have different experiences. The most important thing is for you to look up these things for yourself (tuition, average starting salary, salary for internships/residencies, job prospects, specialties, alternative careers, etc.) and realistically evaluate if you will be comfortable taking x amount of loans knowing itll take you at least y amount of years to pay it off. There are many rewarding aspects of veterinary medicine, as well as other great career options aside from GP that is not mentioned above, and I hope you will be able to experience some of it as you go along. Please consider all the advice people have provided on this thread, they are excellent and most seem to come from experience. However, I hope you don't feel that this community is hostile or judgmental just because you're originally a pre-med. You're young! You can afford to explore your options. Have fun! 🙂

 

[dyachei]

I think the biggest point for anyone to take away from this is that you need firsthand experience. And you need a certain amount before some schools will even consider you but you will gain better knowledge about the profession - both good and bad