Questions regarding VET school:

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I'm honestly not sure why everyone seems to be so bent on persuading you out of going into vet med or harping on how you cannot comprehend what the profession is like. Vet med and human medicine have their similarities and differences, and many here have pointed out the differences (and difficulties) for you to consider. I think its commendable for you to show interest in vet med as a possible career option considering how many other health profession careers have better prospects out there. From what I've seen (I haven't read every single post), you've shown no disrespect for this profession and have been taking everyone's advice with an open-mind. That being said, I hope you continue to have that mentality as you go on to shadow a veterinarian and explore the profession in more depth. I know you said you don't care about finances or living a meager lifestyle, and I just want to say that although many here have brought up great points in comparing debt vs compensation, there are always people who have different experiences. The most important thing is for you to look up these things for yourself (tuition, average starting salary, salary for internships/residencies, job prospects, specialties, alternative careers, etc.) and realistically evaluate if you will be comfortable taking x amount of loans knowing itll take you at least y amount of years to pay it off. There are many rewarding aspects of veterinary medicine, as well as other great career options aside from GP that is not mentioned above, and I hope you will be able to experience some of it as you go along. Please consider all the advice people have provided on this thread, they are excellent and most seem to come from experience. However, I hope you don't feel that this community is hostile or judgmental just because you're originally a pre-med. You're young! You can afford to explore your options. Have fun! 🙂

No one here is "bent on persuading the OP out of vet med". No one. And multiple people have stated exactly as such.

The OP can't currently comprehend what the profession is like. It is a fact. You can't comprehend what a profession is like until you experience it. The OP has zero vet experience therefore she can't possibly comprehend what the profession is like. It is that simple. It's no different than telling me I have no idea what being an EMT is like, because I don't. I've never been one, never shadowed one, I have no idea.

Yes, we have all agreed that vet and human med have similarities and differences. The difference is that the OP keeps repeating that her experience in human med is enough to "get" the emotional aspects of vet med. I have no idea how it feels to lose a human patient. The OP has no idea how it feels to actually euthanize an animal. No one is suggesting it is bad she doesn't understand, just saying that she doesn't get it.

And no one at any point has suggested the OP has shown disrespect for the profession. I'm not even sure why this has even come up or been stated? Other than as an exaggeration.
 
No one here is "bent on persuading the OP out of vet med". No one. And multiple people have stated exactly as such.

The OP can't currently comprehend what the profession is like. It is a fact. You can't comprehend what a profession is like until you experience it. The OP has zero vet experience therefore she can't possibly comprehend what the profession is like. It is that simple. It's no different than telling me I have no idea what being an EMT is like, because I don't. I've never been one, never shadowed one, I have no idea.

Yes, we have all agreed that vet and human med have similarities and differences. The difference is that the OP keeps repeating that her experience in human med is enough to "get" the emotional aspects of vet med. I have no idea how it feels to lose a human patient. The OP has no idea how it feels to actually euthanize an animal. No one is suggesting it is bad she doesn't understand, just saying that she doesn't get it.

And no one at any point has suggested the OP has shown disrespect for the profession. I'm not even sure why this has even come up or been stated? Other than as an exaggeration.

My post was not addressing you nor am I accusing you of anything. I felt that the posts were overwhelmingly one-sided, and IMO some were unnecessary and a little disrepectful to OP. Of course OP can't comprehend what the profession is like, he/she stated he/she has no veterinary experience, that is a given. The best advice is to go out and gain exposure in the field, as many posters have pointed out, and the other points made about finances and differences from human medicine are, truly, real and well founded but has been, IMO, emphasized a tad excessive considering the original intent of the post. I will not argue with you as I've long respected you because of your experience and advice on this forum (long-time SDN lurker) and have no doubt you know what you're talking about much more than I do. I just wanted to point out to the OP that veterinary medicine is not always such a miserable field. I hope I didn't offend you or any of the other posters here.
 
and IMO some were unnecessary and a little disrepectful to OP.

It is disrespectful to the OP to explain to her some of the realities of veterinary medicine? Really? I am not seeing how that equals disrespect...

I guess eye-rolling to those offering advice is the epitome of respect though...

Of course OP can't comprehend what the profession is like, he/she stated he/she has no veterinary experience, that is a given.

Yes, that is exactly what we have been stating. Then the OP goes on to state a few times that she does "get it". See why we then explain to her that it is different? No one here has doubts that the OP has seen some highly emotional things in her work, however it is different. That is what we were saying. However, the OP kept insisting that it isn't different.

We aren't trying to be mean or rude or discredit the OP. We are trying to explain to her that it is just different. Because it is. You, yourself have stated that it is different. OP is not seeing how it is different and she doesn't think she needs to be "prepared" for the emotional aspect of vet med, but she does.

the other points made about finances and differences from human medicine are, truly, real and well founded but has been, IMO, emphasized a tad excessive considering the original intent of the post.

The point about finances is never excessive. Every poster here that has been in the profession for some time will agree that they have serious concerns when people come on and state that they are ok with living a "meager lifestyle". So when that is the response to an original "please consider the financial aspects", you can bet your ass that we will get into more detail about the finances. They are very important, if not the most important thing to consider going into the veterinary field.

I will not argue with you as I've long respected you because of your experience and advice on this forum (long-time SDN lurker) and have no doubt you know what you're talking about much more than I do. I just wanted to point out to the OP that veterinary medicine is not always such a miserable field. I hope I didn't offend you or any of the other posters here.

I am glad I have been able to help with advice and I am not looking for an argument. You didn't offend me at all. But when you misrepresent what was stated (by everyone), I am going to correct it, that is all. No hard feelings, just going to clarify what was actually stated in the thread. Examples that were misrepresented in your post: Nobody tried to push the OP away from vet med, so your statement of that was false. Nobody disagreed that human med and vet med can be similar. Nobody (except the OP) disagreed that they are also different. Nobody at all stated anything about the OP disrespecting the profession, yet you bring that up... so just clarifying what was actually said during the discussion versus what you posted.

All anyone tried to do was to explain to the OP that yes while there are emotional aspects to any career in the health field, having experience in one does not make you automatically understand the other. That is all. The OP didn't want to hear that and just waves it off as if we don't know what we are talking about. She will figure it out soon enough when she goes to shadow a vet.
 
On the other hand, I wouldn't expect an MD to understand how it is like to need to euthanize a totally treatable patient due to finances, and then have to tell the already pissed off grieving owners who hate me that it wouldn't advise home burial because I need to decapitate their beloved fluffy to send the head off for rabies testing since fluffy bit someone within the last 10 days. Huh... Well it's extra awkward that they can't afford even group cremation, and how barbaric am I to suggest that this is even a thing.

So.... I was talking to one of the other docs here who has a story about going to euth an animal... and the unvaccinated animal bit the owner on the nose as the solution went in.

How fun do you suppose THAT conversation was?
 
So.... I was talking to one of the other docs here who has a story about going to euth an animal... and the unvaccinated animal bit the owner on the nose as the solution went in.

How fun do you suppose THAT conversation was?
Haha, there was a NEURO case where the DDX included rabies, and the dog latched onto the owners nose during the euthanasia...
 
It is disrespectful to the OP to explain to her some of the realities of veterinary medicine? Really? I am not seeing how that equals disrespect...

I guess eye-rolling to those offering advice is the epitome of respect though...



Yes, that is exactly what we have been stating. Then the OP goes on to state a few times that she does "get it". See why we then explain to her that it is different? No one here has doubts that the OP has seen some highly emotional things in her work, however it is different. That is what we were saying. However, the OP kept insisting that it isn't different.

We aren't trying to be mean or rude or discredit the OP. We are trying to explain to her that it is just different. Because it is. You, yourself have stated that it is different. OP is not seeing how it is different and she doesn't think she needs to be "prepared" for the emotional aspect of vet med, but she does.



The point about finances is never excessive. Every poster here that has been in the profession for some time will agree that they have serious concerns when people come on and state that they are ok with living a "meager lifestyle". So when that is the response to an original "please consider the financial aspects", you can bet your ass that we will get into more detail about the finances. They are very important, if not the most important thing to consider going into the veterinary field.



I am glad I have been able to help with advice and I am not looking for an argument. You didn't offend me at all. But when you misrepresent what was stated (by everyone), I am going to correct it, that is all. No hard feelings, just going to clarify what was actually stated in the thread. Examples that were misrepresented in your post: Nobody tried to push the OP away from vet med, so your statement of that was false. Nobody disagreed that human med and vet med can be similar. Nobody (except the OP) disagreed that they are also different. Nobody at all stated anything about the OP disrespecting the profession, yet you bring that up... so just clarifying what was actually said during the discussion versus what you posted.

All anyone tried to do was to explain to the OP that yes while there are emotional aspects to any career in the health field, having experience in one does not make you automatically understand the other. That is all. The OP didn't want to hear that and just waves it off as if we don't know what we are talking about. She will figure it out soon enough when she goes to shadow a vet.

Ahh I was going to say I never said everyone did blah blah but then I looked back and I did write everyone......now I just look dumb haha. Like I said, I don't think you were being disrespectful, I felt it from some other posters, and that is only my opinion. I agree with everything else you said 🙂
 
Ahh I was going to say I never said everyone did blah blah but then I looked back and I did write everyone......now I just look dumb haha. Like I said, I don't think you were being disrespectful, I felt it from some other posters, and that is only my opinion. I agree with everything else you said 🙂
It's actually posts like yours that make me want to delete my SDN account every once in a while. If prevets only want to hear people say "I'm a vet and I poop out unicorns and rainbows all day because I love puppies and kittens and my job is the awesomest, I think y'all should be just like me!" I have no business ever coming here. There are good parts and bad parts to the profession, and all of it should be considered before going in IMO. Just because I highlight bad aspects doesn't mean it's a horrible profession and that anyone should be dissuaded from going in. I usually bring these things up when people seem delusional and don't get it. I think that's way more important than having cheerleaders telling bushy-tailed unsuspecting prevets not to worry about anything because only bad horrible vets are unhappy. If you talk to a lot of the people who regret their decisions to go to vet school, they usually say, "I wish someone had told me..."

If you don't agree or don't like what's being posted, you can always just ignore it. Or if you're the person instigating many negative comments, then either think about why it is that you're getting these comments, or stop adding fuel to the fire. (If you can't do these things, you probably won't do so well in the client communication aspects of the job to be honest.)
 
I think there's a delicate balance that has to be maintained for those of us who are trying to ensure that pre-vets know what they're getting into. As much as I want to help people make smart decisions and be prepared before they start vet school, when I look back at my own life the truth is that I wasn't really prepared at all for the reality of vet school, no matter how much I thought I was. But I'm alive and I'm doing alright. And I imagine those of you who have graduated and are practicing would say something similar about the transition from vet school to the "real world." The unfortunate truth is at the end of the day, you don't know if you're ready for it until you do it, and hopefully you don't crash and burn. This is why I compare vet school to marriage so much; I wasn't prepared at all for marriage. I thought I was, but I was naive. But a couple years in, I'm alive and I'm doing pretty damn well.

That said, I don't want to minimize the importance of preparing as much as possible. It's always better to be only a little bit ready than not at all. I just think we who are giving advice to those behind us sometimes forget that even the best-prepared pre-vet is going to say stupid and naive things from time to time, because being stupid and naive is just part of life as a pre-vet (I'm only kind of kidding.). And it's probably part of life as a vet student too, but I'll let those of you in practice decide that.😉
 
As much as I want to help people make smart decisions and be prepared before they start vet school, when I look back at my own life the truth is that I wasn't really prepared at all for the reality of vet school, no matter how much I thought I was. But I'm alive and I'm doing alright. And I imagine those of you who have graduated and are practicing would say something similar about the transition from vet school to the "real world." The unfortunate truth is at the end of the day, you don't know if you're ready for it until you do it, and hopefully you don't crash and burn.

Here's the problem with your line of thinking. You don't shadow vet students to see if vet school is right for you... Of course you have no idea what vet school is like until you get there. Plus, the schooling is just a means to an end. As long as you can get through it it doesn't matter if you don't like it. You're not doing it for the rest of your life.

Obviously, no amount of shadowing or what have you will prepare you 100% for practice. No one is claiming that. But that doesn't make it wise for anyone to infer that they get anything about the profession and how they will fare with it without any experience. It's just not wise to jump into such an investment without at least having a good sense of what you may be getting yourself into.

****, I deal with patients that have no insurance who have to pay out of pocket. I do lots of dental work. I know a lot about oral health. I work in small businesses. I have teeth, and I even brush and floss them sometimes. I go to my dentist all the time and have had everything from fillings to root canals to implants. Does that mean that I understand what it's like to be a human dentist, and how I would do as a dentist? No freaking way. That is all anyone is saying. I have no idea why people keep making it more than it is...

No one is saying that shadowing = guarantee that you'll be set for life. No one is dissuading anyone from becoming a vet.
 
Here's the problem with your line of thinking. You don't shadow vet students to see if vet school is right for you... Of course you have no idea what vet school is like until you get there. Plus, the schooling is just a means to an end. As long as you can get through it it doesn't matter if you don't like it. You're not doing it for the rest of your life.

Obviously, no amount of shadowing or what have you will prepare you 100% for practice. No one is claiming that. But that doesn't make it wise for anyone to infer that they get anything about the profession and how they will fare with it without any experience. It's just not wise to jump into such an investment without at least having a good sense of what you may be getting yourself into.

****, I deal with patients that have no insurance who have to pay out of pocket. I do lots of dental work. I know a lot about oral health. I work in small businesses. I have teeth, and I even brush and floss them sometimes. I go to my dentist all the time and have had everything from fillings to root canals to implants. Does that mean that I understand what it's like to be a human dentist, and how I would do as a dentist? No freaking way. That is all anyone is saying. I have no idea why people keep making it more than it is...

No one is saying that shadowing = guarantee that you'll be set for life. No one is dissuading anyone from becoming a vet.

I should have been more clear that my post was speaking more generally than this specific instance. I absolutely agree that the OP needs to be shadowing and trying to experience the profession as much as possible before making the decision to pursue it. I was just trying to make a point about the way I've seen these kinds of discussions go in the past with potential pre-vets who don't seem to "get it."
 
I should have been more clear that my post was speaking more generally than this specific instance. I absolutely agree that the OP needs to be shadowing and trying to experience the profession as much as possible before making the decision to pursue it. I was just trying to make a point about the way I've seen these kinds of discussions go in the past with potential pre-vets who don't seem to "get it."

There's a difference between a prevet who doesn't "get it" and fully admits that, is pleasant and accepts advice compared to a prevet who acts like they know it all and we are just being stupid/pessimistic/discouraging/mean.

Nobody expects people to "get it" but a good attitude and not acting like you know how things will be in a veterinary setting goes a long way.
 
There's a difference between a prevet who doesn't "get it" and fully admits that, is pleasant and accepts advice compared to a prevet who acts like they know it all and we are just being stupid/pessimistic/discouraging/mean.

Nobody expects people to "get it" but a good attitude and not acting like you know how things will be in a veterinary setting goes a long way.

That's a fair point.
 
It's actually posts like yours that make me want to delete my SDN account every once in a while. If prevets only want to hear people say "I'm a vet and I poop out unicorns and rainbows all day because I love puppies and kittens and my job is the awesomest, I think y'all should be just like me!" I have no business ever coming here. There are good parts and bad parts to the profession, and all of it should be considered before going in IMO. Just because I highlight bad aspects doesn't mean it's a horrible profession and that anyone should be dissuaded from going in. I usually bring these things up when people seem delusional and don't get it. I think that's way more important than having cheerleaders telling bushy-tailed unsuspecting prevets not to worry about anything because only bad horrible vets are unhappy. If you talk to a lot of the people who regret their decisions to go to vet school, they usually say, "I wish someone had told me..."

If you don't agree or don't like what's being posted, you can always just ignore it. Or if you're the person instigating many negative comments, then either think about why it is that you're getting these comments, or stop adding fuel to the fire. (If you can't do these things, you probably won't do so well in the client communication aspects of the job to be honest.)

sigh I'm not sure what is the point of your response, I never said anything about ignoring the bad aspects of the profession. I never said prevets only want to hear the good aspects and I sure as hell did not say anything about being cheerleaders for unsuspecting prevets. Also, I find it a little hypocritical that you wrote to me "If you don't agree or don't like what's being posted, you can always just ignore it" when you're throwing a fit at my post. If you don't like my post, please feel free to correct me, I always welcome criticisms and new ideas. Disagreements and differences in opinion is expected, and is the reason why we have these forums. Twisting my words and making snide remarks at my client communication ability when you don't know the slightest thing about me is inappropriate and disrespectful. I have tried to be nothing but courteous and respectful of everyone's opinions. I have been very careful not to put any negative spotlight on any individual poster here. Admittedly, I am new at writing these posts and do not have as much "seniority" or experience as you might command in writing online posts. My initial post may have been out of line, and I apologize for misrepresenting what people have said here, but I did not ever expect to read something like this from you.
 
So yeah, you need some veterinary hours. It doesn't have to be the traditional "dog/cat clinic" shadowing experience - you can try to get in at your local zoo or aquarium, a local racetrack vet, something a bit different like that with different challenges and routine than the small animal general practitioners. You'll need to be able to make a solid argument for wanting to be a veterinarian instead of a physician as your application is likely currently tailored toward human med. Adcoms are not going to look favorably on you if they think vet med is your "back up" but if you can show that you understand veterinary medicine, you should have a good shot.

I know everyone has harped on the financial aspect, but it's a big deal. Many people can't even make a sustainable living, nevermind comfortable. Not only will you make significantly less with less potential to increase your income over time, but the job market is not great in many/most areas. Then factor in that the AVMA continues to accredit new schools, schools are increasing their class sizes considerably and that the AVMA continues to insist there is a need for veterinarians...it's not a great economic climate in vet med right now. There are plenty of vets that are unhappy in their careers right now for a multitude of reasons, just like MDs, too, so don't let that sway you.

The next best step is to get those veterinary hours and see if it's a life you'd want to live long term. Then consider taking extra pre-reqs that you need and applying next year.
 
making snide remarks at my client communication ability when you don't know the slightest thing about me is inappropriate and disrespectful.
That was not directed at you. It was about the OP. I don't think I was out of line with that one, and I have no intentions of apologizing for it or taking it back.

I have tried to be nothing but courteous and respectful of everyone's opinions.

well yes... but just because you didn't have bad intent does not change that

My initial post may have been out of line,
which is what prompted my response.

and I apologize for misrepresenting what people have said here,
apology accepted.

but I did not ever expect to read something like this from you.
I'm not sure what to say to that, other than... surprise! sorry I didn't meet your expectations...?

You probably haven't been around long enough to see over the years how often veterinary students and veterinarians get turned off and just kind of wither away and never come back because their actual life experiences in the field get trivialized due to whatever expectations/delusions pre-vets have here. Back in the days when I was a pre-vet (when we had to trek to school and back barefoot in the snow...), there were very few vet students, and maybe like 1 veterinarian who posted things on the forums to share their experiences. It's helped me at least to start accumulating more realistic discourse based on real experiences, rather than having a bunch of us pre-vets just speculating about everything. The caveat to that is that we can't choose what experiences people share. It gets old real fast when people complain about what we share, and how we're being too pessimistic, and how our experiences should be discounted because there are happier people out there, etc...

So I'm sorry if you felt personally attacked or whatever, but it really is posts like your initial one that makes me want to say 'screw it, here's one fewer recent grad you won't be hearing from anymore, hopefully more of this year's grads stick around' whether you meant any disrespect or not.
 
That was not directed at you. It was about the OP. I don't think I was out of line with that one, and I have no intentions of apologizing for it or taking it back.



well yes... but just because you didn't have bad intent does not change that

which is what prompted my response.

apology accepted.

I'm not sure what to say to that, other than... surprise! sorry I didn't meet your expectations...?

You probably haven't been around long enough to see over the years how often veterinary students and veterinarians get turned off and just kind of wither away and never come back because their actual life experiences in the field get trivialized due to whatever expectations/delusions pre-vets have here. Back in the days when I was a pre-vet (when we had to trek to school and back barefoot in the snow...), there were very few vet students, and maybe like 1 veterinarian who posted things on the forums to share their experiences. It's helped me at least to start accumulating more realistic discourse based on real experiences, rather than having a bunch of us pre-vets just speculating about everything. The caveat to that is that we can't choose what experiences people share. It gets old real fast when people complain about what we share, and how we're being too pessimistic, and how our experiences should be discounted because there are happier people out there, etc...

So I'm sorry if you felt personally attacked or whatever, but it really is posts like your initial one that makes me want to say 'screw it, here's one fewer recent grad you won't be hearing from anymore, hopefully more of this year's grads stick around' whether you meant any disrespect or not.

Again, and for the last time, I am NOT discounting anyone's experience or advice. I did NOT tell OP to disregard everything that everyone has said. I don't really know how else to state this. Your advice and experiences are excellent and well-founded, and should of course be things the OP considers when thinking about going into the veterinary field. What I DID say is that OP should do his own independent research into the profession, and that will be infinitely more valuable than any anecdotal evidence you or any of us can ever provide. All I wanted to do was to let the OP know that there are also rewarding aspects of veterinary medicine, which not many people have mentioned previously here, is that really so wrong? Is one sentence I said (that wasn't even directed at you) enough to make you want to wither away and leave this forum? I sincerely hope not, although if it is perhaps it would be for the better.
 
What I DID say is that OP should do his own independent research into the profession, and that will be infinitely more valuable than any anecdotal evidence you or any of us can ever provide.
Um.... Isn't the OP asking us, people actually graduated and in the field and working, basically "doing research"? I don't know how else the OP would do it. Ask people face to face? Are those answers more valid than people online? Besides that, you'd just be looking at employment statistics, salary statistics, etc which really don't tell you SFA about working day to day for any one person.
 
Um.... Isn't the OP asking us, people actually graduated and in the field and working, basically "doing research"? I don't know how else the OP would do it. Ask people face to face? Are those answers more valid than people online? Besides that, you'd just be looking at employment statistics, salary statistics, etc which really don't tell you SFA about working day to day for any one person.

I would argue that those statistics are more important than what individual people say because those numbers are generalized to the whole veterinary population, meaning they give you a more complete and representative picture of the state of the profession. In addition, good statistic surveys are designed to have minimal bias so that we can decide for ourselves whether or not to believe a claim based off the numbers and facts. For example, let's say I'm new to the veterinary profession and I shadow a vet who came out of vet school with no loans and had the fortune and funds to start up a successful business (clinic). I would probably say to myself wow this profession is great! But then maybe the next month I find a new, disgruntled vet to shadow, who is still struggling to pay off loans 25 years after graduating from vet school. And then he/she starts telling me about all his/her classmates who still cannot find a job or has a job but the compensation is below average and job satisfaction is even lower. How would I tell which experience is representative of the veterinary profession? I can't, right? Which means I'm going to have to do my own research in order to fill in these gaps. Looking into tuition costs, average student debt out of vet school, and salary/employment statistics, among other things, will give me a more realistic idea of what to expect when I graduate. Statistics do have their limits though, as you have rightfully pointed out. They are impersonal, impartial, and do not tell you anything about what it's like to be a veterinarian, which is where anecdotal experiences come in play. That being said, it is important to ask people who have already graduated and are working in the field to gain perspective, but it is equally if not more important to verify/supplement this information with reliable evidence. I'm sure there is a more eloquent way of explaining that but that's the gist of what I believe in, and why I think it's insufficient to rely on people's opinions and experiences here as the main source of advice. Helpful no doubt, but ultimately insufficient.
 
Yes I know about study design and that data is not the plural of anecdote. But I honestly feel that many of the surveys out there regarding vet med employment fall into the category of "lies, damn lies and statistics". The AVMA seems to consistently find that we've still got a shortage of veterinarians (usually while leaving out the convenient bit of information that jobs in X region/specialty just cant be supported). Sometimes when reporting average starting salary they don't include people in internships who couldn't find work elsewhere. Many of the employment surveys on the veterinary industry do a very good job of painting a rosier picture then it really is. Impartial studies would be great, I agree, but they're few and far between.
 
Yes I know about study design and that data is not the plural of anecdote. But I honestly feel that many of the surveys out there regarding vet med employment fall into the category of "lies, damn lies and statistics". The AVMA seems to consistently find that we've still got a shortage of veterinarians (usually while leaving out the convenient bit of information that jobs in X region/specialty just cant be supported). Sometimes when reporting average starting salary they don't include people in internships who couldn't find work elsewhere. Many of the employment surveys on the veterinary industry do a very good job of painting a rosier picture then it really is. Impartial studies would be great, I agree, but they're few and far between.
To add to this the employment surveys are voluntary. There has been some speculation that some without jobs don't answer it for s variety of reasons. So there is a selection bias
 
To add to this the employment surveys are voluntary. There has been some speculation that some without jobs don't answer it for s variety of reasons. So there is a selection bias
That, and aren't the salary numbers also skewed based on how practice owners report their "income"?
 
True, you guys bring up valid points about the flaws in the design of some of these studies. In fact, almost all (if not all) of these kinds of studies out there are biased in some way. I'm sure all of you know already, but it's very difficult to design a perfect study with completely randomized sample, especially if it requires human participants (too much variability!). In spite of that, I still strongly feel that in general, these stats are more representative of the profession than individual experience just because you're looking at a collective sample instead of just one. It's really up to you (the one reading these studies) to judge how strong the study/evidence is. For example, one look at the methodology of how schools are ranked lets you know that those "scores" are garbage. But the VIRMP match statistics give a very accurate picture about the number of people failing to get in a program (I know those are probably terrible examples to compare, but my brain is a little fried at the moment and I can't think of any other examples right now). The study that WTF brought up is probably one of those you should approach with caution. I know I wasn't clear before, but I wasn't saying to blindly trust numbers over people's experiences. Just as you should be critical of things people say, so should you be wary of how "numbers" or "claims" are generated. I did not know about the salary numbers being skewed based on how practice owners report their income. I will definitely look into that, thank you for your perspective.
 
It really irks me when people start comparing their hard times with other people's, and trying to rank them by "how bad" they were. Having to deal with hard times isn't a competition, and surviving them doesn't earn you some merit badge that you can lord over other people. Everyone's worst thing is their worst thing. They have nothing else to compare it to. Even people who experience the exact same tragedy are affected by it in a different way. The emotional toll of medicine - human or veterinary - is going to be different for everyone.

I don't think the original poster deserved quite the level of vitriol that they've gotten. I don't think that they were saying that he or she knows "exactly" what it feels like to be a vet. They were just saying that they've already had to deal with some very emotionally trying situations and they feel like they can handle them. There are plenty of other reasons they they need experience in a veterinary clinic other than just the emotionally taxing part of it.
 
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It really irks me when people start comparing their hard times with other people's, and trying to rank them by "how bad" they were. Having to deal with hard times isn't a competition, and surviving them doesn't earn you some merit badge that you can lord over other people. Everyone's worst thing is their worst thing. They have nothing else to compare it to. Even people who experience the exact same tragedy are affected by it in a different way. The emotional toll of medicine - human or veterinary - is going to be different for everyone.

I don't think the original poster deserved quite the level of vitriol that they've gotten. I don't think that they were saying that he or she knows "exactly" what it feels like to be a vet. They were just saying that they've already had to deal with some very emotionally trying situations and they feel like they can handle them. There are plenty of other reasons they they need experience in a veterinary clinic other than just the emotionally taxing part of it.

Nobody was comparing "how bad" what they have been through is or is not. Nobody made it into a competition. Nobody stated that an EMT hasn't had it "bad" or seen bad things. Actually, it was the exact OPPOSITE of what you are stating.

Everyone here was saying that we do not know what it is like to be an EMT. What the emotional toll would be to see certain situations. What it is like to lose a human patient. Because most of us here don't know what that would be like.

The difference that we were trying to point out to the OP was that just because she has seen emotional things as an EMT doesn't mean she "understands" emotional things that happen in a veterinary setting. Just like ALL of us said to her about the vice versa situation. And nobody said that there aren't other reasons to get experience in a veterinary setting, I am rather certain in one of my posts that I mentioned it is one small part of vet med.

So basically, those of us that you are "disagreeing" with did not at all ever post or do what you are suggesting that they did. And the OP who you are agreeing with did exactly as you are stating.
 
Nobody was comparing "how bad" what they have been through is or is not. Nobody made it into a competition. Nobody stated that an EMT hasn't had it "bad" or seen bad things. Actually, it was the exact OPPOSITE of what you are stating.

You mean, like when you said “when was the last time a human doctor euthanized a healthy person simply because they had a broken limb? Or skip that, when was the last time a doctor euthanized a healthy person with nothing wrong with them at all (animal shelter medicine where healthy animals are euthanized every day)? When was the last time a doctor determined if the treatment was worth more than what the actual person is worth and therefore killed the person?? (like what happens multiple times a day in farm animal med)?”

That sounds a lot like one-upping to me.

Everyone here was saying that we do not know what it is like to be an EMT. What the emotional toll would be to see certain situations. What it is like to lose a human patient. Because most of us here don't know what that would be like.

The difference that we were trying to point out to the OP was that just because she has seen emotional things as an EMT doesn't mean she "understands" emotional things that happen in a veterinary setting. Just like ALL of us said to her about the vice versa situation.

Of course they don't, which they fully acknowledged. But they also said that they felt like they'd dealt with enough as an EMT to know that they "had the guts" to deal with emotionally difficult situations. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's a tough job. A lot of people can't deal with what they do. So what's wrong with them saying they feel like it prepared them for dealing?

And nobody said that there aren't other reasons to get experience in a veterinary setting, I am rather certain in one of my posts that I mentioned it is one small part of vet med.

I never said that you or anyone else specifically said it. I just made the observation that much of the discussion has been focused on the emotional side of things.

So basically, those of us that you are "disagreeing" with did not at all ever post or do what you are suggesting that they did. And the OP who you are agreeing with did exactly as you are stating.

Not from what I read.
 
You mean, like when you said “when was the last time a human doctor euthanized a healthy person simply because they had a broken limb? Or skip that, when was the last time a doctor euthanized a healthy person with nothing wrong with them at all (animal shelter medicine where healthy animals are euthanized every day)? When was the last time a doctor determined if the treatment was worth more than what the actual person is worth and therefore killed the person?? (like what happens multiple times a day in farm animal med)?”

That isn't "one-upping" that was asking the OP legitimate questions. That was asking her when she has experienced specific things that happen in vet med that do not happen in human medicine, thinking that she might see there are some differences there that she had not thought about. Many others also pointed that same thing out. Not anywhere in that post of mine did I say or even suggest that she can't handle those things. Not anywhere did I say that those things are 42341232 times worse than anything she has seen. I did consistently state over and over again that one cannot know how they will react in a situation until they have been in it. I did consistently state that the OP will probably be fine with the emotional aspects, but they WILL BE different than those she has experienced. That is all that anyone through the entire discussion has stated. Except for you and the OP. The OP stated over and over again that she "gets it" because of what she has seen as an EMT. I stated that I don't doubt she has seen emotionally horrific things. NEVER, EVER did I once state she had not. Nor did I ever once or anyone else ever once state that what we see in vet med is worse. We all repeatedly and consistently stated that it is different. We never said it was worse. EVER.

However the OP does state this:

"I told you guys I was an EMT and there has been such a heavy emphasis on the "hardships" of dealing with patient/animal interaction. You guys don't think I know what it's like to deal with bad interactions? Or the hardships of having to put an animal down?"

And this:

"But please don't act like you have to be "ready" for the emotional aspect."

And this:

"Yes, I can. What is the difference between a ten year old girl ejected from a motor vehicle because her mother didn't put her daughter's seat belt on, resulting in a life as a vegetable... and a healthy puppy having to be euthanized?" (Clearly showing that she doesn't get how they can be different. And again, people responding to this never stated one was "worse" than the other, they both suck, but there is a giant difference between the two.)


I could keep going about how she continued over and over to state repeatedly that she "knows" and "gets" this stuff from her experience as an EMT where not a single on of us stated the same thing back to her...

Actually I suggested it back to her in the reverse order here:

"You keep repeating over and over that you're an EMT so you "get it", but you don't. You can't understand aspects of vet med until you've witnessed vet med. That is what we're saying.

It'd be like someone telling you that they "get" what the emotional aspect of being an EMT is like because they were once transported by an ambulance somewhere. Or because they are a vet or a vet tech. Or whatever. It's ridiculous, right?"


No one at a single point anywhere in this thread tried to "one-up" the OP, tried to discount her experience, tried to talk her out of vet med, tried to say that she hasn't seen traumatic things, the only thing that people tried to get the OP to understand was that despite her experience, vet med is different and she DOES need to be prepared for the emotional aspect of the job as it will be different.
 
I kind of want to beat this whole forum with a dead fish.
 
That isn't "one-upping" that was asking the OP legitimate questions. That was asking her when she has experience specific things that happen in vet med that do not happen in human medicine. Many others also pointed that same thing out. Not anywhere in that post of mine did I say or even suggest that she can't handle those things. Not anywhere did I say that those things are 42341232 times worse than anything she has seen. I did consistently state over and over again that one cannot know how they will react in a situation until they have been in it. I did consistently state that the OP will probably be fine with the emotional aspects, but they WILL BE different than those she has experienced. That is all that anyone through the entire discussion has stated. Except for you and the OP. The OP stated over and over again that she "gets it" because of what she has seen as an EMT. I stated that I don't doubt she has seen emotionally horrific things. NEVER, EVER did I once state she had not. Nor did I ever once or anyone else every once state that what we see in vet med is worse. We all repeatedly and consistently stated that it is different. We never said it was worse. EVER.

However the OP does state this:

"I told you guys I was an EMT and there has been such a heavy emphasis on the "hardships" of dealing with patient/animal interaction. You guys don't think I know what it's like to deal with bad interactions? Or the hardships of having to put an animal down?"

And this:

"But please don't act like you have to be "ready" for the emotional aspect."

And this:

"Yes, I can. What is the difference between a ten year old girl ejected from a motor vehicle because her mother didn't put her daughter's seat belt on, resulting in a life as a vegetable... and a healthy puppy having to be euthanized?" (Clearly showing that she doesn't get how they can be different. And again, people responding to this never stated one was "worse" than the other, they both suck, but there is a giant difference between the two.)


I could keep going about how she continued over and over to state repeatedly that she "knows" and "gets" this stuff from her experience as an EMT where not a single on of us stated the same thing back to her...

Actually I suggested it back to her in the reverse order here:

"You keep repeating over and over that you're an EMT so you "get it", but you don't. You can't understand aspects of vet med until you've witnessed vet med. That is what we're saying.

It'd be like someone telling you that they "get" what the emotional aspect of being an EMT is like because they were once transported by an ambulance somewhere. Or because they are a vet or a vet tech. Or whatever. It's ridiculous, right?"


No one at a single point anywhere in this thread tried to "one-up" the OP, tried to discount her experience, tried to talk her out of vet med, tried to say that she hasn't seen traumatic things, the only thing that people tried to get the OP to understand was that despite her experience, vet med is different and she DOES need to be prepared for the emotional aspect of the job as it will be different.

Yes. Thank goodness "everyone here" on the prevet forum set another idiot straight. Glad you guys are on top of it.
 
Wow. I don't think I've heard that since middle school. That's pretty funny.

I mean you want to beat the whole forum with a dead fish... so that indicates you don't like it here. Unless I am misinterpreting that?

Though the beating the whole forum with a dead fish does make me laugh. I think we need to use the dead fish saying a lot more often. I do suggest you start in pre-allo first though, they need a beating with a dead jellyfish.
 
I mean you want to beat the whole forum with a dead fish... so that indicates you don't like it here. Unless I am misinterpreting that?

Though the beating the whole forum with a dead fish does make me laugh. I think we need to use the dead fish saying a lot more often. I do suggest you start in pre-allo first though, they need a beating with a dead jellyfish.

You can add us all to the list of people you won't be hiring when you take over the world.
 
In high stress jobs, I'm sure the "grass is greener" syndrome is very common. I'm not surprised that an MD who has to deal with whatever situations they normally deal with in human medicine would contemplate if they would have been happier/less stressed/better off being a vet. Like others have said, I would strongly advise anyone making the career switch unless you spend time working or shadowing people in the field for a while and doing a lot of homework.

There is a reason why vet schools require hours and hours of experience, and rightly so. I think people in this thread who have advised OP about the differences in being an MD/EMT vs. vet, both financial and emotional, have made valid points to consider. No one is saying OP isn't capable or doesn't have what it takes.
 
I see that some people are getting a jump on vet school drama before they even officially start school...
Always interesting to see others become more offended than the person who the "vitriol" was actually directed at. Keeps things exciting around here :laugh:
 
Thank you very much for your responses. I considered that some would question my motives. However, it's my fault for not clarifying properly - I wouldn't make a decision without shadowing...and I assumed an application without at least shadowing would be nothing. My stance in my post was that based off the science; I'd be surprised if I found myself un-interested. Finances, for me, aren't a deciding factor. I haven't abandoned human medicine - and is still very much a strong possibility - Prem Ratan Dhan Payo 2nd Day Box Office Collection I would like to have all my options together. Make a nice table and weigh pros and cons.

Essentially I was shadowing a physician a few months ago, one of his patients was a vet, and it got a good conversation going. Interesting perspective from two different doctors, who both only had good things to say about veterinary medicine but were hesitant with human medicine (yes - even the M.D!). I'm not sure if I just don't have enough experience yet but it's disappointing to meet all the doctors who are telling me they were just like me and then got burnt out in E.R medicine (insert another specialty here and I'm sure I've come across it...those in the ROAD specialties don't seem to complain, though). Anyways, PRDP 2nd Day Collection home and sat on it, and thought that it'd be worth looking into based on what they had to say. I do like human medicine a lot, but I wanted to have something to compare to. So many people act like your just suppose to have this inherent attraction to the field - and Box Office collection Prem Ratan Dhan Payo (PRDP) I'm sorry but that's a reason why so many people end up in the wrong field. They don't collect the data points and comparison shop! You can't base a decision on instinct. Without a doubt medicine is my only route though - the thought process, investigative work, and clinical interventions can be fun for a days work.

Just a little bummed out, but not surprised, at the barriers . Mostly on the pre-req side; a lot of schools are straight up requiring public speaking!? Not even recommended... I Well I know from here the most logical route is to get a first-hand look.

Beyond shadowing, how do most garner experience? Volunteer at a veterinary clinic?
 
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Mostly on the pre-req side; a lot of schools are straight up requiring public speaking!? Not even recommended...
As an aside, vet med is a customer service industry. I live in a small city, there are 4 clinics locally. I have to be able to 1) explain complex medical problems in terms that people who may have barely passed elementary school will understand, 2) exude confidence even when I don't know what the hell is going on, 3) communicate effectively with clients, receptionists, technicians, other general practice vets, and specialists, all of which require varying levels of details and formality, 4) sell my treatment plan and 5) be mary-sunshine even when I'm having a totally crappy day because my crappy day can't impinge on the client I'm dealing with at that moment. I didn't take public speaking as a course, but luckily I was in 4-H and years of theatre and I draw on that every single day.
 
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