doctorette

5+ Year Member
Jan 10, 2014
26
6
Status
Attending Physician
Graduating from residency; I have an offer that is interesting but I have a few questions that are not answered on the contract. The job is full time for a brand new ambulatory clinic.

Some of the things I want to know include:

1) Exact work hours and schedule
2) Schedule for home after hour calls
3) # of patients per day
4) Breakdown of Pediatric patient by age group

Any other questions I should be asking? None of the above is specified on the contract. Am I being neurotic by wanting specifics on any/all of these?
 

smq123

John William Waterhouse
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Administrator
10+ Year Member
Jan 9, 2006
14,150
4,149
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Attending Physician
Graduating from residency; I have an offer that is interesting but I have a few questions that are not answered on the contract. The job is full time for a brand new ambulatory clinic.

Some of the things I want to know include:

1) Exact work hours and schedule
2) Schedule for home after hour calls
3) # of patients per day
4) Breakdown of Pediatric patient by age group

Any other questions I should be asking? None of the above is specified on the contract. Am I being neurotic by wanting specifics on any/all of these?
No. If they won't answer even these basic questions, walk away.
 

VA Hopeful Dr

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Jul 28, 2004
22,281
32,224
Status
Attending Physician
Graduating from residency; I have an offer that is interesting but I have a few questions that are not answered on the contract. The job is full time for a brand new ambulatory clinic.

Some of the things I want to know include:

1) Exact work hours and schedule
2) Schedule for home after hour calls
3) # of patients per day
4) Breakdown of Pediatric patient by age group

Any other questions I should be asking? None of the above is specified on the contract. Am I being neurotic by wanting specifics on any/all of these?
Its not unusual for the contract to not specify those specifics, but the group should know the answers and be able to tell you the answers.
 
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Blue Dog

Fides et ratio.
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10+ Year Member
Jan 21, 2006
12,709
5,681
Status
Attending Physician
Graduating from residency; I have an offer that is interesting but I have a few questions that are not answered on the contract. The job is full time for a brand new ambulatory clinic.

Some of the things I want to know include:

1) Exact work hours and schedule
2) Schedule for home after hour calls
3) # of patients per day
4) Breakdown of Pediatric patient by age group

Any other questions I should be asking? None of the above is specified on the contract. Am I being neurotic by wanting specifics on any/all of these?
None of that is typically included in a contract, but you should be able to easily get answers to all but #4, which would likely require data mining (unless you want somebody to just pull numbers out of their ass). Not really sure what difference it makes, anyway. Patient populations (esp. pediatrics) change over time. You should be comfortable seeing all ages.
 
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Fatalis

7+ Year Member
Jan 14, 2012
557
317
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Attending Physician
Also have 1 and 2 in the contract, if not they can easily get you to do more than what was agreed upon by easily saying “it’s built in your contract”.
 
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brianmartin

10+ Year Member
Nov 12, 2006
1,044
40
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Attending Physician
RVU expectations will be in a contract. You need to know what the expected level of RVU production level is per day, and what the average RVU billed per pt visit is. They should have data about volumes in the clinic. There may be penalties for not meeting RVU quotas. I'd want to know all of that before signing anything.
 

doctorette

5+ Year Member
Jan 10, 2014
26
6
Status
Attending Physician
Thank you for all the replies. I see that there are varying opinions. Some are saying that the work hours, schedule, home call setup should all be in the contract, others say they should not be. I did email them these questions and had them all answered for me via email. But its not in the contract. Should I insist on them putting in contract or in writing in email is fine?

Regarding RVU, all I am told is that RVU starts kicking in at 18 months, no other information. Is it typical to have this in the contract or again just questions I should ask and have them answer over email?

I assume that new grads out of residency tend to be naive because I feel most of my colleagues do not have most of the answers to these questions in their contracts.

There is also a clause in the contract that states that I am not allowed to do any other work in my capacity as a physician without permission from them, and includes not only seeing patients, but also writing books or teaching. I would think that as long as I am not in their designated 10 mile radius I should be able to do whatever I want in my off time without asking for permission. I am intending on picking up locums shifts and don't want to have to run it by the employer every time. Is this unusual or typical?
 

VA Hopeful Dr

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Jul 28, 2004
22,281
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Attending Physician
Thank you for all the replies. I see that there are varying opinions. Some are saying that the work hours, schedule, home call setup should all be in the contract, others say they should not be. I did email them these questions and had them all answered for me via email. But its not in the contract. Should I insist on them putting in contract or in writing in email is fine?

Regarding RVU, all I am told is that RVU starts kicking in at 18 months, no other information. Is it typical to have this in the contract or again just questions I should ask and have them answer over email?

I assume that new grads out of residency tend to be naive because I feel most of my colleagues do not have most of the answers to these questions in their contracts.

There is also a clause in the contract that states that I am not allowed to do any other work in my capacity as a physician without permission from them, and includes not only seeing patients, but also writing books or teaching. I would think that as long as I am not in their designated 10 mile radius I should be able to do whatever I want in my off time without asking for permission. I am intending on picking up locums shifts and don't want to have to run it by the employer every time. Is this unusual or typical?
Work restrictions like that are very typical. Partly it's so you don't work elsewhere during your off hours and have your patients see you outside the system, partly it's so you don't run yourself ragged and do a poor job. Most places I've worked have moonlighting options to supplement income to take some of the sting of this out.

You can try and get specifics involving scheduling, call, and whatever in your contract but don't be surprised if they refuse. The only thing any contract I've ever signed had, and I've had more employers here than most, was minimum hours you had to work.
 

AMEHigh

10+ Year Member
Jul 25, 2008
1,576
1,517
Status
Attending Physician
Thank you for all the replies. I see that there are varying opinions. Some are saying that the work hours, schedule, home call setup should all be in the contract, others say they should not be. I did email them these questions and had them all answered for me via email. But its not in the contract. Should I insist on them putting in contract or in writing in email is fine?

Regarding RVU, all I am told is that RVU starts kicking in at 18 months, no other information. Is it typical to have this in the contract or again just questions I should ask and have them answer over email?

I assume that new grads out of residency tend to be naive because I feel most of my colleagues do not have most of the answers to these questions in their contracts.

There is also a clause in the contract that states that I am not allowed to do any other work in my capacity as a physician without permission from them, and includes not only seeing patients, but also writing books or teaching. I would think that as long as I am not in their designated 10 mile radius I should be able to do whatever I want in my off time without asking for permission. I am intending on picking up locums shifts and don't want to have to run it by the employer every time. Is this unusual or typical?
I'm still newish in to my career, but I've never heard of the bolded. I do a lot of advocacy work which includes teaching and writing articles (I don't use my employers name), so I would not be ok with that in my contract because I wouldn't want to run things by them weekly.
 

VA Hopeful Dr

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Jul 28, 2004
22,281
32,224
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Attending Physician
I'm still newish in to my career, but I've never heard of the bolded. I do a lot of advocacy work which includes teaching and writing articles (I don't use my employers name), so I would not be ok with that in my contract because I wouldn't want to run things by them weekly.
I haven't seen that exact wording, but most of my contracts have said that if I patent or publish while employed the employer is entitled to credit/money.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Jul 28, 2004
22,281
32,224
Status
Attending Physician
Thank you for all the replies. I see that there are varying opinions. Some are saying that the work hours, schedule, home call setup should all be in the contract, others say they should not be. I did email them these questions and had them all answered for me via email. But its not in the contract. Should I insist on them putting in contract or in writing in email is fine?

Regarding RVU, all I am told is that RVU starts kicking in at 18 months, no other information. Is it typical to have this in the contract or again just questions I should ask and have them answer over email?

I assume that new grads out of residency tend to be naive because I feel most of my colleagues do not have most of the answers to these questions in their contracts.

There is also a clause in the contract that states that I am not allowed to do any other work in my capacity as a physician without permission from them, and includes not only seeing patients, but also writing books or teaching. I would think that as long as I am not in their designated 10 mile radius I should be able to do whatever I want in my off time without asking for permission. I am intending on picking up locums shifts and don't want to have to run it by the employer every time. Is this unusual or typical?
As far as the RVU part, most contracts that have a salary guarantee will pay you either the salary or RVU-based payments whichever is greater for the duration of the guarantee time. Once that period expires, then you're on pure RVU.

For instance, I'm on guaranteed pay until the end of this year but as of the end of this month I will have started to out-earn what they have paid me to date. If that trend continues, then at the end of the year they will pay me a productivity bonus.
 

AMEHigh

10+ Year Member
Jul 25, 2008
1,576
1,517
Status
Attending Physician
I haven't seen that exact wording, but most of my contracts have said that if I patent or publish while employed the employer is entitled to credit/money.
That's lame. I'm glad I haven't had to worry about that so far.
 
May 13, 2020
115
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Resident [Any Field]
You’re a FM doc who is in very high demand, get the contract you want or be willing to walk away and get 20 other offers...don’t let them bully you into what’s “typical”
 
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Jan 22, 2019
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You’re a FM doc who is in very high demand, get the contract you want or be willing to walk away and get 20 other offers...don’t let them bully you into what’s “typical”
I agree... No reasons for an IM/FM doc to sign a bad contract unless you are restricted geographically. We are in the driver seat right now.
 

VA Hopeful Dr

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Jul 28, 2004
22,281
32,224
Status
Attending Physician
In my group, the contract only covers stuff you do involving your medical license.
Everything I do involves my medical license. I use it to buy alcohol, rent cars. I printed out 500 copies and wallpapered my office with them.
 
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