Questions to ask before joining as an associate? (serious)

[air bud]

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This is also why you need to be sure they are being transparent with their books.
Can you imagine how convoluted this all gets if the only thing to track your performance is trusting whatever numbers they present to you?

When I worked for a small private Ortho group, they had an independent accountant doing everything. I trusted everything they sent me. Very transparent. Different world.

 

[Weirdy]

When I worked for a small private Ortho group, they had an independent accountant doing everything. I trusted everything they sent me. Very transparent. Different world.

Same situation with my current workplace.
They've shown me everything from collections to overhead costs.

 

[Adam Smasher]

I know we're dealing with hypothetical numbers here but is billing for 500k annually realistic? That is close to 2000$ per working day

Depending on the area, depending on the payer mix, depending on the pathology. but 500k in collections is very attainable if you have a full schedule. With the right fee schedule, you could do it with C&C alone.

 

[turftoebro24]

This is also why you need to be sure they are being transparent with their books.
Can you imagine how convoluted this all gets if the only thing to track your performance is trusting whatever numbers they present to you?

Same situation with my current workplace.
They've shown me everything from collections to overhead costs.

How do you get them to show you all this in the interview phase lol

 

[desertpod8]

I know we're dealing with hypothetical numbers here but is billing for 500k annually realistic? That is close to 2000$ per working day

500K is about what I bring in as an associate in private practice, seeing about 20-25 patients a day and taking call every few weeks.

Each office will have different reimbursements rates with their insurance, but an example of realistic collections of ~$2K a day in our small group practice may look something like:
20 patients-
- 1 custom orthotics 500
- 2 ingrown procedures 2x200 =400
- 10 nail debridement 10x50= 500
- 3 new patient office visit 3x100 =300
- 4 follow up visits 3x75= 400

 

[Feli]

500K is about what I bring in as an associate in private practice, seeing about 20-25 patients a day and taking call every few weeks.

Each office will have different reimbursements rates with their insurance, but an example of realistic collections of ~$2K a day in our small group practice may look something like:
20 patients-
- 1 custom orthotics 500
- 2 ingrown procedures 400
- 10 nail debridement 500
- 3 new patient office visit 300
- 4 follow up visits 400

Your estimates on the procedures seem pretty high end, but good job.
Why do you not have 15+ office visits on 20pts?
And what about DME? XRs? U/s? Injections? Lesion/wart destructions? Callus codes? Wounds? OTC? Etc???

But yeah, $500k collections yearly is not too bad with private insurance. It's harder if a metro with a lot of MCA, but still very doable. Average is probably that 500k or a bit higher for newer practitioners. I would say most first year associates will be under... most PP docs in general are over. It depends on area payers and volume.

Again, the rubber hits the road when it's time to decide whether the owner is honest with associate about what was collected (associate only knows what's billed... not what got paid and how well). It does no good to generate 600k collections if the owner tells you you did $380k and pays your bonus based on that. That's the undoing of nearly all associate/owner relationships... when they start counting each other's money. 🙂

 

[desertpod8]

Your estimates on the procedures seem pretty high end, but good job.
Why do you not have 15+ office visits on 20pts?
And what about DME? XRs? U/s? Injections? Lesion/wart destructions? Callus codes? Wounds? OTC? Etc???

But yeah, $500k collections yearly is not too bad with private insurance. Average is probably that or a bit higher. I would say most first year associates will be under... most PP docs in general are over. It depends on area payers and volume.

That was my oversimplification of how we collect 2K a day.

And I would agree, compared to colleagues in other private practices, I’m on the lower end of collections at 500K a year.

My contract is straight 40% of collections as an independent contractor, no benefits or malpractice covered. Here in California I’ve seen contracts for 35-40% as a W2 employee with benefits, or 40-50% as an independent contractor without benefits. I’ve seen associates make more from straight collections than a base salary with a lower percentage bonus, but as a new grad I’d feel more secure with a base salary.

 

[Dermato Fight Club]

I know we're dealing with hypothetical numbers here but is billing for 500k annually realistic? That is close to 2000$ per working day

Billing yes. Collecting probably not your first couple of years.

As I stated above in order to take home around 250k, you need to collect around 625k. I think that would likely put someone who has graduated from residency within the past three years in the top 1-5% of their classmates.

Just look at some of these established practices that are being offered for sale on podiatryexchange.


Bayville NJ- Practice for sale with two office locations Barnegat and Bayville, New Jersey. Fully equipped offices with x-rays. In-house billing with electronic charting. Grossing approximately $500,000. 35 year well established practice 11/25/24

Las Vegas, NV- Great 24 yr Well Established Practice With Mix of All aspects of General Podiatry, Wound Care; In office Surgeries Very Loyal Patient population four 1/2 days a week Grossing around $350000 per year Solo Practitioner looking to relocate to the east coast willing to stay a couple of years during transitional period. 7/24

North Bend, OR- Practice for sale. Located on the beautiful Southern Oregon coast. Grossing $500,000 part time. Asking $250,000 willing to finance some of the cost if needed and to stay during the transition. Send your contact info. I would love to tell you about this gem of a practice. 7/4/24

Adrian, MI- Well-established full-scope 1 provider practice for over a decade. 40% PPO with no HMO or Medicaid,P/T practice 20 hrs per week. Local hospital with full privileges & no call. Amazing work-life balance with 25% overhead. Gross revenue $550000. It can be transitioned to a F/T and double revenue.Xrays, MSK U/S, CO2 laser, shockwave and epic EMR 12/13/24

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

Why would I want these mustaches around if I’m buying their practice? Because they want to grift for a few years. No thanks.

 

[Hybrocure]

I know we're dealing with hypothetical numbers here but is billing for 500k annually realistic? That is close to 2000$ per working day

Big difference between billing for vs what gets paid (collected).

Very big..

 

[MicroPod]

How much would you all in PP generally say overhead is for podiatry?

 

[caliking87]

Billing yes. Collecting probably not your first couple of years.

As I stated above in order to take home around 250k, you need to collect around 625k. I think that would likely put someone who has graduated from residency within the past three years in the top 1-5% of their classmates.

Just look at some of these established practices that are being offered for sale on podiatryexchange.


Bayville NJ- Practice for sale with two office locations Barnegat and Bayville, New Jersey. Fully equipped offices with x-rays. In-house billing with electronic charting. Grossing approximately $500,000. 35 year well established practice 11/25/24

Las Vegas, NV- Great 24 yr Well Established Practice With Mix of All aspects of General Podiatry, Wound Care; In office Surgeries Very Loyal Patient population four 1/2 days a week Grossing around $350000 per year Solo Practitioner looking to relocate to the east coast willing to stay a couple of years during transitional period. 7/24

North Bend, OR- Practice for sale. Located on the beautiful Southern Oregon coast. Grossing $500,000 part time. Asking $250,000 willing to finance some of the cost if needed and to stay during the transition. Send your contact info. I would love to tell you about this gem of a practice. 7/4/24

Adrian, MI- Well-established full-scope 1 provider practice for over a decade. 40% PPO with no HMO or Medicaid,P/T practice 20 hrs per week. Local hospital with full privileges & no call. Amazing work-life balance with 25% overhead. Gross revenue $550000. It can be transitioned to a F/T and double revenue.Xrays, MSK U/S, CO2 laser, shockwave and epic EMR 12/13/24

most practices run at roughly around 60% overhead? (I know it can vary) how the hell is Mr Las Vegas practice even surviving only collecting 350k

 

[Dermato Fight Club]

most practices run at roughly around 60% overhead? (I know it can vary) how the hell is Mr Las Vegas practice even surviving only collecting 350k

Yes. He likely takes home 120-150k. He probably made his money 20 years ago and is now coasting towards retirement. Likely where I will be in 5-7 years.

I would say the practice is essentially worth whatever the supplies/equipment is 50-100k tops.

 

[icebreaker32]

Yes. He likely takes home 120-150k. He probably made his money 20 years ago and is now coasting towards retirement. Likely where I will be in 5-7 years.

I would say the practice is essentially worth whatever the supplies/equipment is 50-100k tops.

No harm in trying to sell the practice, but the strange part is he wants to relocate to the east coast yet is willing to stay for two full years for a transition. It is not like the sale of this practice will fund his retirement. Perhaps he thinks the practice is worth more than it is. Many do.

 

[shadesofgrey]

No harm in trying to sell the practice, but the strange part is he wants to relocate to the east coast yet is willing to stay for two full years for a transition. It is not like the sale of this practice will fund his retirement. Perhaps he thinks the practice is worth more than it is. Many do.

They all think their practice is worth more than it is...

 

[Feli]

Why would I want these mustaches around if I’m buying their practice? Because they want to grift for a few years. No thanks.

The value of an office (to me... and many) is in the referral base... mostly from PCPs, some from patients and community.

That goodwill transfer of referrals is what you'd be buying basically (and a bit of depreciated value on any major usable equipment (as @Dermato Fight Club said).

If you go to town and start up, you can go out and meet the PCPs and market... but it takes a lot of time and fair bit of money. It'll usually take years to get a cold startup busy and full. PPs don't have the forced referrals in the way that hospital and MSG pods get. Some PCPs and Urgent Cares and such will be hard for PP pods to arrange an intro with. Others will resist as they refer to other DPMs.

Basically, you will get a lot busier a lot faster in PP if the intros are arranged much easier if the exiting doc has ability to transfer the connects. This is double important if you are moving to a new are + new office. It's also fine to buy an office where owner died or just leaves immediate, but the value is much lower (major equipment depreciated only). Those connections and intros have value to the tune of hundreds of future new patients. It's a people game to cultivate a rockstar PP.

Those steady refers and my rep are why my office - and tons like it - continue to be successful... and the nearby associate mill just get the leftovers and whoever they can snag with fakebook ads (they are stuck at part time near me... would be out of biz if I expanded). The area goodwill and referring docs are the main thing that achieves long term success, and that's somewhat transferable in a buy-out (assuming outgoing doctor is likeable and had those).

The autoclave or instruments or chairs or whatever is worth almost nothing. Most offices don't own, they lease. The trained staff or the existing patients are very minimal value as they may stay or may go in transition to a new doc (though they're more likely to stay if smooth transfer). End of the day... it's 90% the area rep + PCP refers goodwill that make a PP go (and make its value).

Jmo.

No harm in trying to sell the practice, but the strange part is he wants to relocate to the east coast yet is willing to stay for two full years for a transition. It is not like the sale of this practice will fund his retirement. Perhaps he thinks the practice is worth more than it is. Many do.

Yeah, transition span is 3mo to maybe 12mo max.
Introduce you to PCPs, area and hospital people, patients... that's about it.

 

[turftoebro24]

I had another meeting with them. Went well but a few potential issues:

1. They dont offer ANY paid paternity leave. Is this normal? However, you are allowed to use your 2 weeks of PTO (which is low) in that 12 weeks of UNPAID paternity leave. How common is something like that in private practice?

2. 10 mile non compete. I know these can be tough to enforce, but I honestly didnt even think they were legal in PA anymore.

 

[Adam Smasher]

1. They dont offer ANY paid paternity leave. Is this normal? However, you are allowed to use your 2 weeks of PTO (which is low) in that 12 weeks of UNPAID paternity leave. How common is something like that in private practice?

If my name was Jeff Bezos and you were being employed by Amazon, I would see your point. But coming from the perspective of a small business owner, it is YOUR job to support your growing family, not MINE. Go ahead, crucify me with your replies.

2. 10 mile non compete. I know these can be tough to enforce, but I honestly didnt even think they were legal in PA anymore.

I think they didn't get the memo. Probably not enforceable. This is what happens when you get your contract drafted by a budget attorney.

 

[Weirdy]

I had another meeting with them. Went well but a few potential issues:

1. They dont offer ANY paid paternity leave. Is this normal? However, you are allowed to use your 2 weeks of PTO (which is low) in that 12 weeks of UNPAID paternity leave. How common is something like that in private practice?

2. 10 mile non compete. I know these can be tough to enforce, but I honestly didnt even think they were legal in PA anymore.

I didn't even get paternity leave in residency man. And that was with the same benefits as the hospital employees.
I can't see any private practice giving paid paternity leave. PTO sounds pretty par for the course offered to the MDs/DOs in my group.

My non compete was 7 miles.
If they have multiple offices, read the fine print- it may be 10 mile radius of every office they have which could shut you out of the city you are in- if they are enforceable.

 

[turftoebro24]

I didn't even get paternity leave in residency man. And that was with the same benefits as the hospital employees.
I can't see any private practice giving paid paternity leave. PTO sounds pretty par for the course offered to the MDs/DOs in my group.

My non compete was 7 miles.
If they have multiple offices, read the fine print- it may be 10 mile radius of every office they have which could shut you out of the city you are in- if they are enforceable.

That kinda sucks ngl

Appreciate the replies tho

 

[heybrother]

I had another meeting with them. Went well but a few potential issues:

1. They dont offer ANY paid paternity leave. Is this normal? However, you are allowed to use your 2 weeks of PTO (which is low) in that 12 weeks of UNPAID paternity leave. How common is something like that in private practice?

2. 10 mile non compete. I know these can be tough to enforce, but I honestly didnt even think they were legal in PA anymore.

1. You'll have to do your own work on the non-compete in regards to the ability to enforce and what not. The problem with 10 miles is that the area of a circle is Pi*r^2 so even something that "seems" small ie. 10 miles in fact covers an incredible area. Without trying to dox myself - a circle with a radius of 10 miles covers my entire town.

2. You haven't run a podiatry practice yet, but we don't bring money in unless we are there are there. I made this joke in a different thread like 2 days ago, but a podiatry practice runs on fuel provided 100% by the doctors. The motor turns off when you aren't there. Reimbursement these days is bare f^&*ing bones. Within reason - my highest reimbursing insurance is BCBS. There are some rare exceptions. BCBS processes claims very quickly. I've had claims pay in under a week, but that's a bit fast. Unless your billing is shady - services rendered on BCBS are resolved on the insurance side in like 2 weeks most of the time. Medicare pays consistently and reasonable quickly and they've got set pay dates. There might be some lag on other insurances, but if you stop working on January 1st - I'm not kidding - cash flow starts to dry up quickly when you aren't there. Everything will process and maybe you have some patients paying along the way. There aren't hundreds of thousands of extra dollars of profit to aid in paying people out while they are away. If money like that existed it wouldn't be coming from the associates collections - it would be coming from something questionable like a PCR lab or something cringe like grafts.

Here's something a lot of people can't handle. The reason that podiatrists pay poorly is because podiatrists collect poorly a lot of the time. Yes, there are predators, but the heart of the matter is that your services aren't worth anything unless your coding is solid, your pathology is adequate, you offer "more"/and people say yes, you have optimized contracts, and your volume is good. We can make some adequate money vs time when we're rocking, but we aren't cardiologists. We don't really partake in facility money. Higher acuity can be helpful, but it has to have the right sort of acuity. Someone posted on here that they are very successful and do a lot of 11044 work in the office. That's a very amusing no global code. Good for them.

Consider the following. Almost all pain injections of the back seem to pay about $250 in the office (I looked up like 5-6 codes - they all paid about the same and about that). Pain physicians routinely do 20-30 of these in a row. Sometimes they do them at facilities they own where they take a lower professional reimbursement - say 50% less, but they generate facilities fees that are worth even more. Compare them to us. Even with ultrasound - 76942 (ultrasound guidance) - a plantar fascial injection is worth $50ish and the ultrasound adds $50. Ultrasound guided small joint injections are $70-80. Theoretically the MUE on 20605 is 2 so you could do more than 1. I'm not attempting to beat us up here - where I'm going is that certain other fields make more money because they hit higher level codes at a higher rate. The impression I'm under is that ophthalmologists make about $500 for a cataract. To me - that seems low. But they slam 20+ of them in a row. They make their money on volume. I don't think we have a killer amazing code like some other specialties do. 11750 used to pay $50 more which meant insurance paid more. Injections of the foot without ultrasound used to pay about $80ish for a brief spell and then fell by $30. We can make money on volume and offering more.

I'm trying to be mellow on this because I see what I get paid for "well orchestrated" visits ie. visit + imagery + injections or procedures and its better than anything else I've ever done in my life. Run your clinic right and you can generate solid encounters, but you will be hard stretched to match what certain other medical specialties can do.

Its very tempting as an associate to think you are making a fortune for the practice. Its possible you are, but its also very possible you are not - especially if the owner gives you insurances that pay less.

 

[GreenHousePub]

If my name was Jeff Bezos and you were being employed by Amazon, I would see your point. But coming from the perspective of a small business owner, it is YOUR job to support your growing family, not MINE. Go ahead, crucify me with your replies.



I think they didn't get the memo. Probably not enforceable. This is what happens when you get your contract drafted by a budget attorney.

I don't' think this contract was drafted by a budget attorney. Probably the practice owner's wife.

 

[Dermato Fight Club]

I had another meeting with them. Went well but a few potential issues:

1. They dont offer ANY paid paternity leave. Is this normal? However, you are allowed to use your 2 weeks of PTO (which is low) in that 12 weeks of UNPAID paternity leave. How common is something like that in private practice?

2. 10 mile non compete. I know these can be tough to enforce, but I honestly didnt even think they were legal in PA anymore.

Did you really ask for 12 weeks paid paternity leave?

This shows a complete lack of any understanding of how a practice operates.

You realize that if you are not in the office seeing patients then not only are you not collecting any money for the practice or yourself but also the practice has to continue paying the overhead (i.e staff/rent/etc.)

If I was hiring an associate and they asked me for 12 weeks paid paternity leave, they wouldn't even be considered for the job as their priorities seem to be much different than what will benefit the practice.

Do you think the PP owner took 12 weeks off when he had a child? I know I didn't. I couldn't afford to.

In my practice we are all owner's and have as much time off as we want. I guess if I hired an associate I would do the same thing and have them on just a % of collections model. You can take off as much time as you want, but you won't be making any money while out of the office.

 

[turftoebro24]

Did you really ask for 12 weeks paid paternity leave?

This shows a complete lack of any understanding of how a practice operates.

You realize that if you are not in the office seeing patients then not only are you not collecting any money for the practice or yourself but also the practice has to continue paying the overhead (i.e staff/rent/etc.)

If I was hiring an associate and they asked me for 12 weeks paid paternity leave, they wouldn't even be considered for the job as their priorities seem to be much different than what will benefit the practice.

Do you think the PP owner took 12 weeks off when he had a child? I know I didn't. I couldn't afford to.

In my practice we are all owner's and have as much time off as we want. I guess if I hired an associate I would do the same thing and have them on just a % of collections model. You can take off as much time as you want, but you won't be making any money while out of the office.

No, I asked if they OFFER any paternity leave. They brought up the 12 weeks of unpaid leave after that. Not even asking the question would be irresponsible. Either way, they have offered me a position as of today

 

[Feli]

No, I asked if they OFFER any paternity leave. They brought up the 12 weeks of unpaid leave after that. Not even asking the question would be irresponsible. Either way, they have offered me a position as of today

If it's a company with over 50 total employees (LLC or PC for most podiatry groups), then you can use FMLA (won't get paid, but they have to have a job for you after 12wks med/fam/etc leave). Most pod groups aren't that big, but some are (supergroups, large multi-office, etc). I would guess the group you talked to is required to do that 12wks FMLA... may try to list it as a "benefit," lol.

I agree with @Dermato Fight Club that you don't understand how PP works if you want or expect that kind of time off. PP is all about having your weekends, good income, good hours, little/no call, but maintaining the rep and capacity of the group. That is just plain hard to do with docs taking a lot of time off.

Example: a podiatry supergroup near me (largest pod group in the state) just went to to Venture Cap and gave their docs "new contracts" end of 2024, and some of their busy docs already quit... others are now in the process of leaving also. They are STRUGGLING to get those patients taken care of. You have about 30-40+ patients per day from the quit docs that need to get absorbed. Many pts go to other nearby competitors, and the remaining associates in the group that is now PE are overbooked. It's very hard on the group for any doc to take time off or quit suddenly (most/all docs should be fully booked at any given time, so others "pick up the slack" is not really viable).

...Personally, I plan my days off and appointments and etc 3+ MONTHS in advance (I'm solo PP). It works best that way. If I tried to take next week or even a week next month off, it's booked solid. We'd have to move ppl. You lose patients if you move them, esp on short notice... "if you bump them, they'll bump you."

That's also honestly why I never gave serious thought to hiring associate: I am 100% screwed if they flaked (couldn't see all my patients AND all of theirs... fallout would damage my office rep badly). There are also staff I'd get for associate who then would have little/no work if associate left. Basically, it's an unnecessary risk.... simply bring in partner (% only) or transition/close the office someday.

GL with your contracting... just giving you the other side of the coin. 👍

 

[Dermato Fight Club]

No, I asked if they OFFER any paternity leave. They brought up the 12 weeks of unpaid leave after that. Not even asking the question would be irresponsible. Either way, they have offered me a position as of today

Congrats! I hope you negotiated the highest salary possible because you are unlikely to bonus if you are even considering taking 12 weeks off your first year out. Prove me wrong. Good luck!

 

[deleted1162946]

why are yall going so hard at the guy asking for paternity leave. Yeah he’s not going to get it, yeah it’s unrealistic. But it’s 2025. God forbid if the guy wants to be home with his newborn 🤣

 

[heybrother]

why are yall going so hard at the guy asking for paternity leave. Yeah he’s not going to get it, yeah it’s unrealistic. But it’s 2025. God forbid if the guy wants to be home with his newborn 🤣

I do wonder what women think when they read this.

 

[air bud]

I had another meeting with them. Went well but a few potential issues:

1. They dont offer ANY paid paternity leave. Is this normal? However, you are allowed to use your 2 weeks of PTO (which is low) in that 12 weeks of UNPAID paternity leave. How common is something like that in private practice?

2. 10 mile non compete. I know these can be tough to enforce, but I honestly didnt even think they were legal in PA anymore.

wait what?

 

[deleted1162946]

I do wonder what women think when they read this.

Dermato for sure not hiring no woman, they make babies and babies is time off and time off is no money!

 

[Weirdy]

Dermato for sure not hiring no woman, they make babies and babies is time off and time off is no money!

There's a meme in here somewhere but please don't post it cause it'll probably get reported.

 

[turftoebro24]

why are yall going so hard at the guy asking for paternity leave. Yeah he’s not going to get it, yeah it’s unrealistic. But it’s 2025. God forbid if the guy wants to be home with his newborn 🤣

With only 2 weeks PTO, I was expecting some kind of paid paternity leave. Even a week or two.

I did not ask them for 12 weeks paid leave, nor would I.

Yes of course, 12 weeks of paid leave is not possible, and I never said it was

 

[turftoebro24]

wait what?

what?

 

[Adam Smasher]

I do wonder what women think when they read this.

I don't want to make assumptions about who's behind the screen names, but this forum seems to be a sausage-fest. We could benefit from more women's perspectives.

 

[GreenHousePub]

I don't want to make assumptions about who's behind the screen names, but this forum seems to be a sausage-fest. We could benefit from more women's perspectives.

 

[Adam Smasher]

View attachment 397371

I really have no idea why more women don't post on message boards

 

[Dermato Fight Club]

With only 2 weeks PTO, I was expecting some kind of paid paternity leave. Even a week or two.

I did not ask them for 12 weeks paid leave, nor would I.

Yes of course, 12 weeks of paid leave is not possible, and I never said it was

I'm really not trying to be hard on you I'm just trying to get this point across:

You will be most successful if you think of yourself as the driver of your income. You are the one who determines your income.

There is no reason to be concerned about PTO when you are on a collection model unless you plan on just making the base salary. If you actually want to make more than the base salary, then the sky is the limit. You should want to work more in order in order to make more and a good contract should incentivize this.

Even if I were not the owner I would treat all PTO as unpaid time off because I would not be making any money while out of the office.

This was in fact what I did probably for the first 7-8 years and I eventually burnt out. So I guess not the greatest example but I'm glad I did because now I can just coast after making the money I did when I was younger.

 

[turftoebro24]

I'm really not trying to be hard on you I'm just trying to get this point across:

You will be most successful if you think of yourself as the driver of your income. You are the one who determines your income.

There is no reason to be concerned about PTO when you are on a collection model unless you plan on just making the base salary. If you actually want to make more than the base salary, then the sky is the limit. You should want to work more in order in order to make more and a good contract should incentivize this.

Even if I were not the owner I would treat all PTO as unpaid time off because I would not be making any money while out of the office.

This was in fact what I did probably for the first 7-8 years and I eventually burnt out. So I guess not the greatest example but I'm glad I did because now I can just coast after making the money I did when I was younger.

I get that 100% but look at it this way.

I work my ass off to hit my bonus, which I plan to. I worked holidays, weekends, stayed late in the OR on Friday nights. Perhaps missed out on family events and other milestones. Yes, you may say this is all part of the job. And I agree to a certain degree.

But now I'm burnt out and want a break more than just 2 weeks (sick days are included in those btw). I think if they just said 4 weeks PTO, i'd have a peace of mind. I may not even use all of them, just in case I do burn out. I understand the business model, but am mindful of the psych and mental aspect as well. Hope that makes a little more sense.

 

[Dermato Fight Club]

So forgive my ignorance as I have never negotiated an associate contract. From what I understand you are paid a salary of say 120k then are incentivized to work more after collecting 360k.

If you do not collect more than 360k, you have no reason to work.

If you do hit bonus, like in your scenario, then you are incentivized to work.

I don't really understand your point. The only real paid time off is if you do not hit your first 360k in collections. All other time off is just you not working and not making .33 on whatever you collect.

I guess in the contract after hitting say 400k collections time off should be as needed no more than 4 days a month or something.