Questions

[futurepsych0]

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Hello fellow psych enthusiast, i have a few questions and would appreciate your wisdom on the matters.

1) Does a non-funded PhD program go "quicker" than a fully funded one? The reason i ask is because when you go into a fully funded program one is expected to "work" for the university. I would assume (we all know what happens when we assume 🙄 ) that if we don't have to "work" for the university one can spend more time on getting the requirements done. Granted, I was not planning to apply to programs unless they were fully funded, but since i am not willing to travel far my choices are very limited. I would ideally love to get accepted into fordham or stony brook's clinical program. However, i have other schools like Hofstra which are private and closer to me. I just don't think the amount of debt obtained from private programs are "worth it" especially with expected salaries today.

2) Since i work full-time and go to school full-time i have never really had the ability to get ANY research experience. My experience is limited to research related courses where we did "mock" studies. I am required to do an internship this semester (my last one!) and i am going to intern at a children's psychiatric hospital. I will have to do 80 hours throughout my semester and keep a weekly log of my experience. If i can get into a volunteer RA position the most i can do before next Sept is 6 months. I have a solid GPA 3.9 throughout my college career and hope to do well on my GREs, but I am still worried that my lack of solid research experience will prevent me from getting into any reputable universities. I have also TAed for the past year and a half. I know this one is not really a question but more of a chance to get any feedback/advice on this particular situation i am in and how bad my chances are.

3) This is my last one and is not really my question. My GF just graduated from a masters program ~6 months ago and has been unable to find ANY decent job. She applied to adjunct positions, RA positions and some administrative positions at colleges with no luck. I have tried my best to help her look on different websites, county jobs within Suffolk and Nassau and city jobs also with no luck. She didn't do that great on her GREs so she is studying to retake them, but feels very unmotivated due to the lack of jobs in the field now that she is actually out looking for openings. She is now thinking of avoiding a PhD program and going into another field completely. I am in no way trying to influence her because i want her to choose what is best for her, but think that if she could find any decent position she would "cheer up". She is currently working as some dean's assistant at a community college making 12 dollars an hour with a masters 😱 I can totally understand how she feels because i am frustrated and i am not in that situation. I have been lucky to have a job where i make 50k and can pay my way through college with absolutely no loans, and am also nervous about having to leave my job for a PhD program. Anyway, the question throughout my entire babble is, would anyone know any good websites or tips for trying to find ANY job for someone with a masters in psych? I told her that a research position would be ideal especially if she wants to get her Phd, but at this point i am sure she will accept anything.

Thank you guys in advance for any feedback 🙂

 

[JustNoticing]

Not sure what her experience is or what she is looking for, but it may be easier for her to get a foot in the door with a case management job? It'll at least pay better than $12 an hour. I like indeed.com and socialservice.com for job searching. Local SW or other MA programs sometimes have job sites intended for alumni that anyone can view.

It goes without saying that she should be heavily networking with her former classmates, professors, and whoever else. I got one of my first post-MA jobs after getting a lead emailed out to us by our program director. And join the local chapters of whatever organization represents her, such as one of the long island chapters of the ny mental health counseling association (for example).

 

[Ollie123]

1) In general, I'd say funded programs take a bit longer to complete - though that is likely more correlate than cause. Research-heavy programs seem to take longer to complete on average, and these are almost always funded. Despite this, once you crunch the numbers the benefits of funding SIGNIFICANTLY outweigh the cost of one, or even several, additional years in school in the vast majority of cases. This is not to mention that as a general rule - funded programs tend to command more respect in the field and will likely set you up better for entering the job market.

2) With 6 months of research experience, I'd wager both Fordham and Stony Brook are pretty unlikely to happen regardless of any other credentials you might have. Certainly Columbia as well if you plan on applying there. Mock studies from classes won't count for much, if anything. Will your intern experience entail research? Not that much can get done in 80 hours, but that would help some.

3) No particular recommendations, but I'd suggest going through the university she got her degree from - all my post-BA jobs came from faculty contacts I had made as a student. I'm assuming you are in NYC given where you are applying. From what I've heard it is currently one of the worst locations in the country to be in, as far as the psychology job market is concerned. Not sure if this helps or not, but her struggles are likely as much a function of location as they are the field.

 

[futurepsych0]

Thank you both for the suggestions on the job hunt I will give her that info and hope for the best. My 80 hours will not be research but more of interaction with the mentally I'll population. I knew the lack of research basically meant almost no chance in getting accepted, but I guess I will try and get more research under my belt after my rejection letters. I am actually located in Suffolk county long island, but am willing to travel to the city if need be. I also agree completely that a couple of extra years in grad school is the better option as opposed to getting ~100k in debt. Thanks again!

 

[roubs]

Thank you both for the suggestions on the job hunt I will give her that info and hope for the best. My 80 hours will not be research but more of interaction with the mentally I'll population. I knew the lack of research basically meant almost no chance in getting accepted, but I guess I will try and get more research under my belt after my rejection letters. I am actually located in Suffolk county long island, but am willing to travel to the city if need be. I also agree completely that a couple of extra years in grad school is the better option as opposed to getting ~100k in debt. Thanks again!

What about the Rutgers Psy.D. program? I recall they were fully or partially funded but I also recall someone saying things changed.

 

[futurepsych0]

To be honest I haven't really investigated PsyD programs because I assumed they lacked funding. I will have to do more research! A fully funded psyd program would be an excellent choice although I hear most universities prefer PhDs. Since I am located on the eastern side of Suffolk, NJ would be a commute I would rather avoid. I was also under the impression it is better to get your degree/license in the state you wish you practice because it is a pain to change states. I could be wrong about that though. I really wanted to stay home and go to school to avoid the cost of living on campus and what not. From the threads on this board it seems I should try my best to graduate with zero debt! This is my goal but push comes to shove I must do whatever I can to achieve my goal. Thanks for the advice on investigating fully/partially funded psyd programs.

 

[wigflip]

To be honest I haven't really investigated PsyD programs because I assumed they lacked funding. I will have to do more research! A fully funded psyd program would be an excellent choice although I hear most universities prefer PhDs. Since I am located on the eastern side of Suffolk, NJ would be a commute I would rather avoid. I was also under the impression it is better to get your degree/license in the state you wish you practice because it is a pain to change states. I could be wrong about that though. I really wanted to stay home and go to school to avoid the cost of living on campus and what not. From the threads on this board it seems I should try my best to graduate with zero debt! This is my goal but push comes to shove I must do whatever I can to achieve my goal. Thanks for the advice on investigating fully/partially funded psyd programs.

I think even folks in funded programs sometimes (often?) take on at least some debt because stipends/salaries usually aren't enough to live on, especially if your uni is in or near a major metro center. See the recent thread titled "Do you pay fees?" or something similar ("fees" was definitely in the title). I am in a social science program that most people would consider "funded" and only know two people with no debt: a wealthy person whose parents pay everything out of pocket (rent, utilities) and someone who lived a particularly spartan lifestyle throughout grad school (no car in an area where a car was really necessary, no disposable income, working outside of the uni when funding package allowed it). That said, I think it's smart to think about the degree to which you can mitigate debt accumulation by seeking a solid funding package.

 

[futurepsych0]

My goal in a perfect world would be landing a professor position doing teaching and research while having a part time clinic mainly for forensic consultations. So research isn't my goal exclusively but rather part of it. I agree that I should not limit myself geographically and I won't. I simply would prefer being closer to home if possible (I'm sure everyone else would also). If I have to move far, loans are going to be unavoidable. However, I will still try to keep them as low as possible. I will definitely do more research on the field and application process. It all seems very overwhelming just thinking about it, and I'm sure it will remain that way until I get accepted somewhere. My major concern is doing great on the GRES and getting as much research experience as possible. Thanks for all the advice guys/gals.

 

[roubs]

My goal in a perfect world would be landing a professor position doing teaching and research while having a part time clinic mainly for forensic consultations. So research isn't my goal exclusively but rather part of it. I agree that I should not limit myself geographically and I won't. I simply would prefer being closer to home if possible (I'm sure everyone else would also). If I have to move far, loans are going to be unavoidable. However, I will still try to keep them as low as possible. I will definitely do more research on the field and application process. It all seems very overwhelming just thinking about it, and I'm sure it will remain that way until I get accepted somewhere. My major concern is doing great on the GRES and getting as much research experience as possible. Thanks for all the advice guys/gals.

Being an early career tenure-track professor means 80% of your time will be dedicated to current research, your next research and how much money you can get for research. Teaching will be that thing you have to do that takes away time from what is really going to get you job security: publishing.

 

[wigflip]

Being an early career tenure-track professor means 80% of your time will be dedicated to current research, your next research and how much money you can get for research. Teaching will be that thing you have to do that takes away time from what is really going to get you job security: publishing.

+1
My undergrad mentor had me redo my personal statement, which originally foregrounded teaching interests, mentoring over research. I'd recommend the same: frame yourself as a researcher first and foremost.

Edit: I'd like to add that I thought I had a pretty good idea of what teaching would be like, but I really didn't. I'd taught curriculum before, but only to the kids who volunteered to show up, and I'd never graded. A lot of college kids treat college like a repeat of high school: sophomoric shenanigans, grade grubbing, begging and bargaining, treating you like you're an uncool adult jailer. If you hit your stride and connect with them, it can be wonderful, but there are also a lot of (for me anyway) unexpected low points.

 

[Pragma]

Being an early career tenure-track professor means 80% of your time will be dedicated to current research, your next research and how much money you can get for research. Teaching will be that thing you have to do that takes away time from what is really going to get you job security: publishing.

Depends on what kind of an institution you go to. SLACs and R2s have a little bit more of an emphasis on teaching. What you say is certainly true at an R1.

I consider my Uni to be an R2, and I'd say that teaching is valued more than other Unis I have seen. I have lots of support to get grants and there is an expectation of obtaining some funding, but it isn't like I need to rely on soft money to fund my position. Landing a K award would be well-received, but it is not the norm at all.

If the goals of the OP are to "do teaching and research" and also have a part time clinic, I'd note that it is going to be tough to strike a balance. Unless you land at an R2, you are likely to be doing mostly teaching with little support for significant research (SLAC), or as roubs mentioned, 80% of your time will need to go towards research (R1 standard).

The part-time clinic, by the way, sounds great - but also has potential barriers. Forensic consultaitons typically require boarding and such - do you intend to do that before you start your professor job? Many places would discourage significant clinical work outside of the TT job - if only because it takes away from your time to do the things you need to do to get tenure.

The other alternative to strike a balance is in academic medicine. But those jobs usually require some kind of 80/20 research/clinical work split (or vice versa), and teaching is much more minimal. But you'd build those forensic credentials a bit more in that context.

I certainly don't want to burst your bubble, but this is the nature of the profession these days - no easy balance without adding things on top. Some people get great clinical jobs and adjunct to satisfy their teaching desires. You are unlikely to find a true 50/50 split for research and teaching at most academic institutions. I'd research different types of schools closely. An R2 seemed like the closest thing to creating a balance for me.

Oh and the job market is crazy (hard) for professor jobs. Not that I can see how it will be when you come on the market down the road, but there is a huge chance that you will need to move.

 

[futurepsych0]

I was aware it would differ from education institution to educational institution, but I have seen how most four year colleges do little research while universities like stony brook have a publish or perish mind set. I basically figuered that a 50/50 split would be a lottery ticket, but as I did a little of both I was going to decide which type of educational institution would be right for me. I often hear how flooded NYC is and have even had friends (who are psychologists) tell me to just get a LCSW (if all I want to do is therapy) or NP or PA. I would be lying if I said I wasn't worried about putting all that time and effort in and end up struggling later in life. As for doing forensic consultation I was planning on going through the ABPP or doing a post doc to build that skill.

Now maybe you guys can help me with a new question. Recently my professor told me she did a part time doctorate program and how she obtained her degree in 9 years. This seems like a lifetime, however, do to the fact I have a decent job with benefits (it is federal) I was wondering if that would be the best option for me economically. I would top out at around 57 and I know that's not great but also isn't terrible. I fund my own retirement investment like a 401k but more secure. Now since I don't want to be "old" by the time I start a family, I was thinking this could be a good option to consider. This could make me able to support a family while working towards my goal. Does anyone know anything about part time doctorates? I am aware experience and time would vary from one university to another, but if anyone here has done it, I would love to hear pros and cons and if they would recommend it.

Once again guys, thank you for the feedback.

 

[paramour]

No reputable doctoral program that I know of offers "part-time" education. Getting a Ph.D. is a full-time occupation. Especially if you aspire to a tenure-track position with the potential for boarding in a specialty area.

This. Most programs will even state as such on their site, i.e., they accept students only for full-time matriculation. Even if they do not state this explicitly: if they're a funded program, they're not going to give up a slot in their program for a part-time student.

And depending on the degree of the "part-time," it may only take you 9 years, but you may want to push that number up further. I know PhD students who take 6-8 years to complete their degrees attending full-time. I don't see how they're going to complete their degrees in 9 years attending part-time, unless degree requirements are less stringent, fewer credit requirements, etc.

 

[futurepsych0]

Well I guess that option is out the door. I wouldn't want to put my time and effort into a program that wasn't reputable. This does have me wondering where my professor got her degree from. Thank you both for helping me steer clear of part time doctorate programs.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Well I guess that option is out the door. I wouldn't want to put my time and effort into a program that wasn't reputable. This does have me wondering where my professor got her degree from. Thank you both for helping me steer clear of part time doctorate programs.

Do keep in mind that things now, particularly with respect to the competitiveness of internship spots and the job market, can be much different than they were for individuals completing their training 10-15 years ago (not sure when the professor you mention graduated, though).