Quick advice for a Post-Bacc applicant!

[SixStringPsych]

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Hey all,

So I have been lurking around these forums, and will most likely post a lot more in the coming months when Post-Bacc interviews and acceptances come in. I am a Senior at a private university in New York City, finishing up my Bachelor's as well as all my pre-health requirements. I am applying to Post-Baccs because I currently have a 2.7 sGPA and a 3.3 cGPA (which will go up hopefully to a 3.4 by the end of this Spring semester). I do have an upward trend all throughout undergrad, especially in the sciences, earning a B+ in Orgo I this past semester with a history of B's and C's in Biology, Gen. Chem, Physics, etc. Needless to say, I need extra Post-Bacc work.

My options are limited since I have not taken the MCAT/failed to matriculate to med school so certain SMPs are not for me...so I am applying to about 7 Post-Bacc enhancer programs such as Penn Special Science, Northeastern, Georgetown ABS, Temple ACMS, Drexel MSP, etc. Basically any progarm that will take an SAT/ACT score instead of the MCAT...getting into any of these would be awesome for me, but I am really afraid of the possibility of not getting into any.

Could anyone tell me with my stats what my chances are to actually get into one of these programs? Clearly these programs arent for students with 4.0 GPAs...they are meant for enhancement...but I hope that my sGPA isn't TOO low.

Stats listed below:
sGPA: 2.7
cGPA: 3.3-3.4
Lots of volunteer experience (hospitals, nursing homes)
Extracurricular volunteer experience not related to medicine (mentoring, habitat for humanity, community service awards)
Some shadowing experience at a New York hospital
Research experience (clinical about 6-7 months so far, lab for 1 year)
Minority status

Please, someone, ease my nerves a bit if you can. I like to think of myself as very well-rounded applicant...however I don't want my sGPA to fall too short of these enhancer programs.

Thanks!

 

[IrishCogs]

Hey all,

So I have been lurking around these forums, and will most likely post a lot more in the coming months when Post-Bacc interviews and acceptances come in. I am a Senior at a private university in New York City, finishing up my Bachelor's as well as all my pre-health requirements. I am applying to Post-Baccs because I currently have a 2.7 sGPA and a 3.3 cGPA (which will go up hopefully to a 3.4 by the end of this Spring semester). I do have an upward trend all throughout undergrad, especially in the sciences, earning a B+ in Orgo I this past semester with a history of B's and C's in Biology, Gen. Chem, Physics, etc. Needless to say, I need extra Post-Bacc work.

My options are limited since I have not taken the MCAT/failed to matriculate to med school so certain SMPs are not for me...so I am applying to about 7 Post-Bacc enhancer programs such as Penn Special Science, Northeastern, Georgetown ABS, Temple ACMS, Drexel MSP, etc. Basically any progarm that will take an SAT/ACT score instead of the MCAT...getting into any of these would be awesome for me, but I am really afraid of the possibility of not getting into any.

Could anyone tell me with my stats what my chances are to actually get into one of these programs? Clearly these programs arent for students with 4.0 GPAs...they are meant for enhancement...but I hope that my sGPA isn't TOO low.

Stats listed below:
sGPA: 2.7
cGPA: 3.3-3.4
Lots of volunteer experience (hospitals, nursing homes)
Extracurricular volunteer experience not related to medicine (mentoring, habitat for humanity, community service awards)
Some shadowing experience at a New York hospital
Research experience (clinical about 6-7 months so far, lab for 1 year)
Minority status

Please, someone, ease my nerves a bit if you can. I like to think of myself as very well-rounded applicant...however I don't want my sGPA to fall too short of these enhancer programs.

Thanks!

I'm not an expert but most of the programs I'm applying to I think require at least a 3.0 sGPA and cGPA... there could be exceptions however at the less competitive schools. Have you considered some DO SMPs? Make sure you take some more science classes and get A's in them, and if you could muster the strength to study hard and do well on the MCAT you could maybe compensate for your low science grades.

 

[deleted248403]

Forget Penn - you need a legit SMP.

You can either waste $20k or more on an AE program, then take the MCAT, and hope to god to get in.

Or you can buckle down, spend $1.5k on a Kaplan (or other MCAT prep) course - apply to an SMP and have better odds of getting in.

Its a no brainer in my mind

 

[johnnyscans]

The fact that you've done so poorly on some (well, most) of your science pre-reqs means you're going to need a true SMP - as in one where you compete against first year med students in first year classes. I don't think an academic enhancer will help you because you've taken so many science courses. Getting that science GPA above a 3.0 will take a pretty long time, and there's no guaranteed A's in upper level science electives.

First thing's first - you need to crush your MCAT. Take a course, follow a structured plan, get tutored, whatever it takes to score at least a 32.

Then apply to real SMPs, kick some ass, and go from there.

 

[SixStringPsych]

That's kind of what I was afraid of. I knew that I would have to crush my MCAT, but I figured I could do an academic enhancer program and study for the MCAT during that post-bacc year and kill it.

But instead you guys would suggest for me to take a whole 'nother year out to study for the MCAT, take it, THEN apply to SMPs next cycle??

 

[IrishCogs]

That's kind of what I was afraid of. I knew that I would have to crush my MCAT, but I figured I could do an academic enhancer program and study for the MCAT during that post-bacc year and kill it.

But instead you guys would suggest for me to take a whole 'nother year out to study for the MCAT, take it, THEN apply to SMPs next cycle??

How are your LORs? You seem to have a lot of good ECs so that is good for your app. I think if you really dedicate time and effort to study for the MCAT you could take it in April, but I don't know how comfortable you are with that much condensed studying. If you feel you could do it and knock it out of the park I think that would be your best bet, also taking more science classes in the meantime and getting As, to apply this cycle

 

[DrMidlife]

I totally disagree on moving straight on to an SMP. You have to get great grades in an SMP, or you lose your investment. There's no evidence that this is a student ready to succeed in an SMP.

I'm interested in having this person's life not completely suck.

I do have an upward trend all throughout undergrad, especially in the sciences, earning a B+ in Orgo I this past semester with a history of B's and C's in Biology, Gen. Chem, Physics, etc. Needless to say, I need extra Post-Bacc work.

B's and C's in the prereqs is a weak foundation, and you've not prepared for the MCAT nor for med school.

You should have plenty of A's in hard science classes before you seriously consider med school. The difficulty and sheer quantity of coursework is stunning and deadly.

Minority status

Please look into the URM programs such as Georgetown GEMS and Wake Forest. There's an outdated list in the "GPA enhancement programs" sticky at the top of the forum, and you can google for more. These programs are designed to prepare you for success in med school. They're small. They're successful.

I suggest that getting in to med school could be the worst thing that ever happened to you, if you're not ready for the courseload. The kids who got 4.0's in undergrad find it very, very difficult. Please be more worried about your academic preparation than about anything else.

Best of luck to you.

 

[SixStringPsych]

I definitely could not take the MCAT in April. I am certainly not prepared. I would have to study over the summer and take it sometime in the fall/winter to apply for SMPs. I guess if I have to I should do it, I just would rather not take another gap year like that just to study for the MCAT and wait on SMP acceptances. That is unless I also get a full-time research assistant position at the school I currently volunteer with, which is a possibility.

My LORs are decent, all from professors though since my clinical research experience is new and I cannot really ask the PI's there for letters quite yet. The experience is amazing and invaluable, but I am still new. I may look into getting a full-time position though after graduation, they mentioned something about it.

 

[deleted248403]

I totally disagree on moving straight on to an SMP. You have to get great grades in an SMP, or you lose your investment. There's no evidence that this is a student ready to succeed in an SMP.

Agreed but there is no rhyme nor reason to dropping $10k a semester at an AE program that ultimately isn't going to help this individual get into medical school without an SMP.

If more classwork before an SMP is needed, then it should be done at a local 4-yr university where expenses can be minimized. $20k for a year of UPenn tutition seems a poor investment for this person

 

[IrishCogs]

I definitely could not take the MCAT in April. I am certainly not prepared. I would have to study over the summer and take it sometime in the fall/winter to apply for SMPs. I guess if I have to I should do it, I just would rather not take another gap year like that just to study for the MCAT and wait on SMP acceptances. That is unless I also get a full-time research assistant position at the school I currently volunteer with, which is a possibility.

My LORs are decent, all from professors though since my clinical research experience is new and I cannot really ask the PI's there for letters quite yet. The experience is amazing and invaluable, but I am still new. I may look into getting a full-time position though after graduation, they mentioned something about it.

If you're fairly certain you could have an opportunity like that for next year, that is another reason to take another gap year IMO. If I were you I'd do everything I could to get the full time position, continue taking science classes perhaps part time, getting A's (keeping in mind some programs have 3.0/2.75 sGPA requirements) and studying really hard for the MCAT with a prep course, etc. and of course continuing to volunteer.

 

[SixStringPsych]

Dr. Midlife, I realize I don't SEEM ready for medical school on paper, but I truly have the drive for it now. Achieving a B+ in Orgo last semester with all of my other courses being A's I believe looks great on my transcript. I'm going for the A/A- this semester in Orgo II and hopefully I will get that.

My problem is that all of the SMP programs require an MCAT score, which will require extra time on my part. I guess I may have to suck it up and go that route.

 

[SixStringPsych]

Thanks all for your input and advice. It's GREATLY appreciated.

I guess I was really inspired to go for AE programs because my brother did Penn's Special Science and ended up with an sGPA not too far above a 3.0 and a cGPA about 3.3 and he got quite a few MD acceptances.

 

[SixStringPsych]

On a related note, couldn't Temple ACMS and Georgetown ABS and even Drexel MSP be considered SMP-like since they are mostly graduate level courses? They wouldn't even do anything for my undergrad GPA so would doing well in one of those programs serve the same purpose as an SMP? Temple even has that linkage if you get > 3.5 GPA and >30 MCAT.

 

[IrishCogs]

On a related note, couldn't Temple ACMS and Georgetown ABS and even Drexel MSP be considered SMP-like since they are mostly graduate level courses? They wouldn't even do anything for my undergrad GPA so would doing well in one of those programs serve the same purpose as an SMP? Temple even has that linkage if you get > 3.5 GPA and >30 MCAT.

With your sGPA I don't think you're competitive for some programs, especially not Temple ACMS... I don't know as much about the other ones you mentioned, but hey it's always worth it to apply if you think you have a shot and you have the money

 

[SixStringPsych]

Thanks IrishCogs.

It's hard to know when there is no GPA cutoff for some programs, Temple ACMS being one of them. It just says C or above in all premedical courses. So I guess I will have to see. Most of my apps are submitted already anyway, just submitting a few last ones now and then wait for my LORs to be submitted. I'm applying somewhat early, so hopefully that will help for something, and I will just have to wait to see my results to make a decision on what to do. Most likely do post-bacc (undergrad formal or informal), take MCAT, apply to SMPs since several SMPs have the 3.0 sGPA cutoff.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

[IrishCogs]

Thanks IrishCogs.

It's hard to know when there is no GPA cutoff for some programs, Temple ACMS being one of them. It just says C or above in all premedical courses. So I guess I will have to see. Most of my apps are submitted already anyway, just submitting a few last ones now and then wait for my LORs to be submitted. I'm applying somewhat early, so hopefully that will help for something, and I will just have to wait to see my results to make a decision on what to do. Most likely do post-bacc (undergrad formal or informal), take MCAT, apply to SMPs since several SMPs have the 3.0 sGPA cutoff.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Good luck!

 

[johnnyscans]

I tried to read all the replies carefully, but my apologies if I missed anything.

-You have solid ECs, but nothing that screams interesting background. I'm not dissing you, just saying that your ECs/experience is average (neither beneficial or deleterious). This means you need the best GPA and MCAT possible, or stellar performance in a top SMP, to have the best chance at acceptance to medical school. The glaring red flag on your application is going to be your science GPA, especially since it's B/Cs in classes that most applicants/matriculates earn As in. You have one two-part way of trying to correct this: A's in upper level science classes and an absolutely stellar MCAT. The A's will show you can earn solid grades over the long haul. The MCAT will show you can rock standardized tests. Both are of paramount importance in medical school.

-You're motivated, that's good. That's not going to undo the B/Cs in your MCAT pre-reqs. I have had some very smart friends who did very well on their pre-reqs and took expensive prep courses bomb the MCAT and totally knock them out of contention. Make sure you are completely ready and scoring >= 32 on multiple practice exams before sitting for the test.

-I'm hesitant to recommend a formal academic enhancer program. I took a semester of classes at a local 4 year university for a myriad of reasons e.g. reminding myself how to study, making sure I was actually partially cut out for the work in front of me, and easing back into school. Jumping right in to a structured program where you MUST get As could be disastrous if you're not adequately prepared. You mentioned NYC - any chance of taking a summer class or two at CUNY Hunter (if you're eligible for in-state tuition that is)?

If I were in your shoes, here is what I would do. Keep in mind, I'm not in medical school yet. I just read/post here a lot, and have tried to separate the good advice from the ****.

Get As this semester. Get As over a summer session. Enroll in 12 credits in the fall and get some more As. Take a winter class and earn an A. During this time continue with your research and building your ECs. Explore other career fields - both in and out of healthcare (seriously. . . it took time in other jobs before I realized my true calling. Getting into medical school is going to be a long, tough, expensive adventure for you. It has been for me, and I'm not even in yet.) If you reach next January and you've gotten all As, begin a 3 month MCAT study routine, maybe supplemented by a class. I'm not sure when SMP applications are generally submitted, but I would make damn sure I have some As under my belt and that I'm ready to smoke/have smoked the MCAT before applying. After kicking the MCAT square in it's reproductive organs I would apply to the best possible true SMPs that I could. I would then proceed to kick whichever one I attend square in it's reproductive organs. I would use the gap year after said SMP (if I did not partake in a linkage) to work on research and travel/enjoy myself.

Realize, this is not a race. The average age of a medical student rises from year to year. Admissions committees are placing value on those who have interesting backgrounds and maturity. I know from first-hand knowledge specific Top 20 allopathic medical schools that absolutely love older students with diverse and interesting backgrounds.

Rushing this process is a mistake. One extra year is inconsequential in the long-run. Once residency hits you're not going to have a life anyway, so might as well take your time to enjoy your early 20s.

I hope this long winded and overly complex post helps you out.

 

[DrMidlife]

Y'all missed the part where I mentioned URM postbacs such as Georgetown GEMS & Wake Forest. These are small, effective and usually cheap. Please rewind.

 

[SixStringPsych]

Wow, thank you so much johnnyscans. Definitely the most helpful advice I've gotten so far. I really appreciate the time you took writing all of that out, and while I often do worry about time and how old I will be when I begin my career, I am beginning to realize that with any career I would ever want to pursue it will take much time. But it will all be worth it in the end. Your post definitely made me feel better about taking time and being a non-trad student.

I will most likely follow the plan of action you have outlined here. It seems like the best bet. I know I have to knock the MCAT out of the park so no one has to tell me twice. I will be doing that and applying to SMPs and depending on which I attend maybe I can even link and shave some time off.

As far as looking into other careers no need to worry about that, I have done a lot of that through undergrad which is really the reason why I have not had much success in my pre-requisites. I was "pre-med" but definitely not focused enough to succeed. I have explored many different careers and know what my passions are. I definitely have a Plan B, Plan C, etc.

Thanks again everyone!

Any advice on what MCAT Prep course to use? I will likely be starting to look for one this summer after I graduate.

 

[SixStringPsych]

Also, if you guys still happen to come back and read this, couldn't another option be to do a whole YEAR of Post Bacc (whether formal or informal) about 32 credits or so, really get my sGPA up, get A's to prove I can do well long term, then apply to med schools through AMCAS and apply to SMPs in that glide year if it looks bleak for me by January?

This is given that spending money on AMCAS and then possibly SMP isn't an issue.

 

[johnnyscans]

Y'all missed the part where I mentioned URM postbacs such as Georgetown GEMS & Wake Forest. These are small, effective and usually cheap. Please rewind.

I completely missed the urm part of the original post. Excellent advice here.

 

[deleted248403]

Also, if you guys still happen to come back and read this, couldn't another option be to do a whole YEAR of Post Bacc (whether formal or informal) about 32 credits or so, really get my sGPA up, get A's to prove I can do well long term, then apply to med schools through AMCAS and apply to SMPs in that glide year if it looks bleak for me by January? .

Doubtful

Do the math and see what your sGPA would change by; a 2.7 is pretty bad but if you can get it above 3.0 with a a year of science then that might allow a different path

 

[johnnyscans]

Doubtful

Do the math and see what your sGPA would change by; a 2.7 is pretty bad but if you can get it above 3.0 with a a year of science then that might allow a different path

This. There are diminishing returns on GPA repair. I was lucky. I only took 16 credits of BCPM in undergrad. The 60 credits of post-bacc work I'll complete before applying allow me to make a pretty major improvement to my sGPA and if all goes according to plan I will apply with an above average sGPA.

My cGPA will not undergo the same level of repair, since is it already at 120 credits. I'm hoping that a strong MCAT and above average sGPA attained over 2 full years of post-bacc work will help ease any fears based on prior performance.

 

[SixStringPsych]

I see what you guys mean, but I did input all my stats into the AMCAS GPA excel sheet and with all A's in 8 full 4-credit courses during post-bacc, a 3.1-3.2 is attainable for me. So I think it may be worth a shot to just apply, and if I have no luck, I can apply to SMPs.

Unless, does it look bad reapplying? Like if adcomms recognize my name the second time around is that bad or is it more favorable? Or is it just completely null?

 

[Medicine28]

I am in the same situation...so I am applying to VCOM post-bac and Hampton University Medical Science Program. Maybe you could look into these programs....just another option for you....

 

[deleted248403]

I see what you guys mean, but I did input all my stats into the AMCAS GPA excel sheet and with all A's in 8 full 4-credit courses during post-bacc, a 3.1-3.2 is attainable for me. So I think it may be worth a shot to just apply, and if I have no luck, I can apply to SMPs.

Unless, does it look bad reapplying? Like if adcomms recognize my name the second time around is that bad or is it more favorable? Or is it just completely null?

Being a reapplicant is never a good thing