Quick question about my circumstances

[jadedpharmer]

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I'm not sure if my situation is unusual, but how common is it for a pharmacy student who's just finished their first year to still have NO experience working in a pharmacy setting? I mean I did my 1 week IPPE rotations for community and institutional, but those are really school-organized weeks of learning and shadowing etc., and I don't think they'd really count as work experience. Actually I don't have much work experience in general - just a couple years of doing research in a lab in high school and college and that's it. I've applied to various jobs for this summer, and even an internship at CVS, but to no avail. The independents I interviewed at wanted someone with more experience... and I have no idea what that CVS was looking for. Anyways, the next couple of summers are going to be rotations I believe, so this summer is really the last chance for me to get any work experience before graduation. Obviously I'm still continuing to apply, but I was just wondering how dire my situation is, and if there are other people in the same boat of having absolutely no prior work experience in pharmacy. I'm afraid with my circumstances, I won't have much choice but to pursue a residency, since I think my lack of experience will likely preclude me from getting a job in hospital or retail, or other places the majority of people commonly find work, not that I'm sure I even want to work in those settings - I'm still not certain what field I want to go into yet.

Anyways, I just wanted to get a sense of how screwed I am when it comes time for graduation. Hypothetically, if someone like me goes into hospital or retail when I graduate, what usually happens? Most other people with prior experience as techs or interns before they graduated can go straight to being a staff pharmacist after graduation whereas someone like me would likely have to go through an internship year or somesuch first, no? And if so, then I might as well just do a year of residency instead, right?

 

[DrPepsi]

You're already done with your first year and you did your IPPE's in one week each? I'm gonna call BS on that unless IPPE is regulated by each school, the one that we have a contract with makes students do 120 hours to qualify as an IPPE.

 

[owlegrad]

You're already done with your first year and you did your IPPE's in one week each? I'm gonna call BS on that unless IPPE is regulated by each school, the one that we have a contract with makes students do 120 hours to qualify as an IPPE.

120 HOURS OF IPPE IN THE FIRST YEAR!? 😱

 

[DrPepsi]

120 HOURS OF IPPE IN THE FIRST YEAR!? 😱

Not in the first year, they mandate an institutional IPPE in your first semester of P2 or the summer after you complete P1. The kids in the summer do three weeks and 40 hours per week but I'm not sure of the kids in the fall.

edit: I'll go look it up when I get back to my office, that's where those forms are at.

 

[owlegrad]

Not in the first year, they mandate an institutional IPPE in your first semester of P2 or the summer after you complete P1. The kids in the summer do three weeks and 40 hours per week but I'm not sure of the kids in the fall.

edit: I'll go look it up when I get back to my office, that's where those forms are at.

When you put it that way it doesn't sound so bad. I am actually not sure what the policy is for P2 students at my school as I have not started my P2 year yet. For P1 though IPPE was a joke. I highly doubt I spent more than 25 hours on the various projects and busy work that made up P1 IPPE here. Probably more like 20, if that. And worth every minute for that sweet, sweet A. 👍

 

[DrPepsi]

When you put it that way it doesn't sound so bad. I am actually not sure what the policy is for P2 students at my school as I have not started my P2 year yet. For P1 though IPPE was a joke. I highly doubt I spent more than 25 hours on the various projects and busy work that made up P1 IPPE here. Probably more like 20, if that. And worth every minute for that sweet, sweet A. 👍

My interns don't get a letter grade for the IPPE, it's a pass/fail course for them so that's probably why they put little effort in their projects

 

[crazybob]

I thought it was at least 100 hours and it could go up to 120 hours.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

I'm not sure if my situation is unusual, but how common is it for a pharmacy student who's just finished their first year to still have NO experience working in a pharmacy setting? I mean I did my 1 week IPPE rotations for community and institutional, but those are really school-organized weeks of learning and shadowing etc., and I don't think they'd really count as work experience. Actually I don't have much work experience in general - just a couple years of doing research in a lab in high school and college and that's it. I've applied to various jobs for this summer, and even an internship at CVS, but to no avail. The independents I interviewed at wanted someone with more experience... and I have no idea what that CVS was looking for. Anyways, the next couple of summers are going to be rotations I believe, so this summer is really the last chance for me to get any work experience before graduation. Obviously I'm still continuing to apply, but I was just wondering how dire my situation is, and if there are other people in the same boat of having absolutely no prior work experience in pharmacy. I'm afraid with my circumstances, I won't have much choice but to pursue a residency, since I think my lack of experience will likely preclude me from getting a job in hospital or retail, or other places the majority of people commonly find work, not that I'm sure I even want to work in those settings - I'm still not certain what field I want to go into yet.

Anyways, I just wanted to get a sense of how screwed I am when it comes time for graduation. Hypothetically, if someone like me goes into hospital or retail when I graduate, what usually happens? Most other people with prior experience as techs or interns before they graduated can go straight to being a staff pharmacist after graduation whereas someone like me would likely have to go through an internship year or somesuch first, no? And if so, then I might as well just do a year of residency instead, right?

I'm no expert, but I think it'll be easier for you to find a job then it is to do a residency with lack of experience. Getting a residency is NOT easy, especially now that pharmacy is becoming so competitive. You have people that have good GPA's, ECs, experience and some still didn't get a residency this year. I don't know where you're getting your information, but I'd advise you to do a little research.

I'm also extremely surprised you only did a week of IPPE. How many hours was this?

120 HOURS OF IPPE IN THE FIRST YEAR!? 😱

We did 100 for ours. I thought around 80-100 was the norm.

 

[jadedpharmer]

I don't know how other schools do their IPPE's. But in my first year, we had 2 classes - IPPE 101 in the fall and IPPE 103 in the spring, both 1 credit, and we had to get matched up with a site and preceptor, and work there for 1 typical work week - 8 hours a day, although sometimes my preceptor let me out early when she didn't have anything for me to do. We had to get an evaluation from them, do a project and write up a paper about it, and we got a grade based on the evaluation and the score of the paper/project.

Isn't this what schools normally do? Anyways, after the second and third years we're supposed to go on rotations for pretty much the entire summer. I think those IPPEs are like 4 credits though.

 

[DrPepsi]

I don't know how other schools do their IPPE's. But in my first year, we had 2 classes - IPPE 101 in the fall and IPPE 103 in the spring, both 1 credit, and we had to get matched up with a site and preceptor, and work there for 1 typical work week - 8 hours a day, although sometimes my preceptor let me out early when she didn't have anything for me to do. We had to get an evaluation from them, do a project and write up a paper about it, and we got a grade based on the evaluation and the score of the paper/project.

Isn't this what schools normally do? Anyways, after the second and third years we're supposed to go on rotations for pretty much the entire summer. I think those IPPEs are like 4 credits though.

Those must not be real IPPE classes, what a waste of tuition money and your time. IPPE's were supposed to force students who wanted to graduate with no experience to go out into the field and see how things are done and it appears to me that your school is trying to slide through a crack when it comes to that. Just my opinion.

 

[bacillus1]

I don't know how other schools do their IPPE's. But in my first year, we had 2 classes - IPPE 101 in the fall and IPPE 103 in the spring, both 1 credit, and we had to get matched up with a site and preceptor, and work there for 1 typical work week - 8 hours a day, although sometimes my preceptor let me out early when she didn't have anything for me to do. We had to get an evaluation from them, do a project and write up a paper about it, and we got a grade based on the evaluation and the score of the paper/project.

Isn't this what schools normally do? Anyways, after the second and third years we're supposed to go on rotations for pretty much the entire summer. I think those IPPEs are like 4 credits though.

Our IPPE is like that too, though we also have more P2 and P3. Honestly I like that they split it up that way, so it doesn't interfere with other summer jobs.

Can you work during the school year for a couple hours a week? Once the summer is over, some retail spots might pop up. Just walk into pharmacies and see if there are openings. If you can't work whatsoever, at least use your summers in some sort of a healthcare capacity (for example this summer I'll be doing a public health internship in an inner-city clinic).

IPPE was supposed to give people pharmacy experience, but unfortunately since everyone has IPPE, employers and residencies now want more. It's pretty demanding that they expect all these things on top of a rigorous pharmacy curriculum (and few majors have so many demands for people to be marketable, I mean have you heard of mandatory intern hour requirements for accountants or the requirement to get a PT aid job before graduation to be hired as a PT), but it is what it is. Worst case scenario, you could move somewhere where there still aren't too many pharmacists after graduation and get a retail job there.

 

[owlegrad]

...IPPE 101 in the fall and IPPE 103 in the spring...

You're school doesn't know how to count? Does IPPE 105 come next in the series?

 

[crazybob]

You're school doesn't know how to count? Does IPPE 105 come next in the series?

Maybe IPPE 102 is for the fall of the P2 year? I'm just guessing.

 

[Quiksilver]

i'm going out on a limb to say in order to get a job, you are going to have to work more then just a summer. In case you haven't taken a business course, it takes time and money to train people. No one is going to hire you in pharmacy for just a summer job, especially for only 1 summer.

Speaking of which, if you want to get anywhere after graduation you better have a job somewhere. No one is going to hire someone with 0 work experience. Especially when there are plenty that have plenty of experience.

As far as grades, I worked as many as 2 jobs as once through my time in pharmacy school and at the same time, I've managed to be dean's list throughout schooling. Its not hard. Hell I'm on rotations and I did 24 h of work this week on top of it. My rotation is not a walk in the park either.

In short, time to grow up and be a big person now. Kill or be killed, this is the big leagues.

 

[crazybob]

I once tried to get a job in an inpatient pharmacy before I started school. The pharmacist said "by the time he (the preceptor) trains you for 5 weeks, it'll be time for you to go." If I had shown an interest in working during the school year, I probably would have worked there.

 

[jadedpharmer]

Maybe IPPE 102 is for the fall of the P2 year? I'm just guessing.

Actually our second year IPPE is 201, and then in the third year apparently it's 301 and 303... according to the website:
http://www.pharmacy.umaryland.edu/administration/elp/courses.html

 

[owlegrad]

Actually our second year IPPE is 201, and then in the third year apparently it's 301 and 303... according to the website:
http://www.pharmacy.umaryland.edu/administration/elp/courses.html

Wow I am clueless. I was gonna suggest they have something against even numbers but plenty of your APPE's use them. That's strange to me.

 

[jadedpharmer]

Well anyways my original point/question was, hypothetically, the majority of people who have previously worked years as a tech and intern would be getting the job of pharmacist directly after they graduate right? Whereas if someone like me with no or little work experience applied for a job at such place, they would likely have me work a year as an intern first wouldn't they? And if it's another year of interning before I actually get to work as a full staff pharmacist, then wouldn't I be better of just doing a year of residency and then go into some specialized field instead?

 

[DrPepsi]

Well anyways my original point/question was, hypothetically, the majority of people who have previously worked years as a tech and intern would be getting the job of pharmacist directly after they graduate right? Whereas if someone like me with no or little work experience applied for a job at such place, they would likely have me work a year as an intern first wouldn't they? And if it's another year of interning before I actually get to work as a full staff pharmacist, then wouldn't I be better of just doing a year of residency and then go into some specialized field instead?

I guess I was fortunate that Eckerds hired me out of pharmacy school with no experience (this was only because internships were unavailable to me). Honestly, I'd take it as a slap in the face if a company asked me to work as an intern with a $12/hr salary after getting a Pharm.D. But I guess times have changed.

 

[jadedpharmer]

But in all honesty, would you hire a freshly graduated pharmacy student to become a fully-fledged staff pharmacist with only IPPE rotation hours as his/her work experience? Or would you make him/her do another year of interning first?

 

[DrPepsi]

But in all honesty, would you hire a freshly graduated pharmacy student to become a fully-fledged staff pharmacist with only IPPE rotation hours as his/her work experience? Or would you make him/her do another year of interning first?

Don't forget that you have APPE's under your belt when you graduate.

Whether or not I would is irrelevant, I would accept a position of intern when I have a Pharm.D

 

[jadedpharmer]

Don't forget that you have APPE's under your belt when you graduate.

Whether or not I would is irrelevant, I would accept a position of intern when I have a Pharm.D

And that's where I'm uncertain... If the hospital/retail setting feels they want to put me through a year of interning after I graduate with a PharmD due to my lack of work experience, then wouldn't I be better off if I picked a specialization field and do a year of residency instead? I think grades certainly won't be an issue for me.

Idealistically, if they don't require me to intern, and they're willing to hire me to become a full-fledged pharmacist right away, I'd much rather go straight to work than do a residency. But worst case scenario - if it's going to be an extra year either way, then maybe residency would be the better choice?

 

[owlegrad]

And that's where I'm uncertain... If the hospital/retail setting feels they want to put me through a year of interning after I graduate with a PharmD due to my lack of work experience, then wouldn't I be better off if I picked a specialization field and do a year of residency instead? I think grades certainly won't be an issue for me.

Idealistically, if they don't require me to intern, and they're willing to hire me to become a full-fledged pharmacist right away, I'd much rather go straight to work than do a residency. But worst case scenario - if it's going to be an extra year either way, then maybe residency would be the better choice?

I have never heard of being asked to be an intern after you are licensed. Has anyone ever heard of this? I think at that point a company will ether hire you or not hire you, I doubt that any company will try to under employ you that way. What is in it for them? They ether want you as a pharmacist or they do not, I doubt they would prefer to have you as an intern.

 

[bacillus1]

Well anyways my original point/question was, hypothetically, the majority of people who have previously worked years as a tech and intern would be getting the job of pharmacist directly after they graduate right? Whereas if someone like me with no or little work experience applied for a job at such place, they would likely have me work a year as an intern first wouldn't they? And if it's another year of interning before I actually get to work as a full staff pharmacist, then wouldn't I be better of just doing a year of residency and then go into some specialized field instead?

I have never heard of a pharmacist working as an intern for 12 bucks an hour. The only "interning" that people do is being a graduate intern between graduation and obtaining one's license, and that's significantly more than 12 bucks. I think it's either getting a job or not getting a job, not working as an intern if you can't find a pharmacist job.

But on residencies, I think they like some kind of things done besides schoolwork as well.

Seriously consider working somewhere during the school year. If not, I guess it won't be the end of the world, and you'll probably get a job somewhere, though it might not be the best job ever.

 

[clutzyshell]

i'm going out on a limb to say in order to get a job, you are going to have to work more then just a summer.

...

As far as grades, I worked as many as 2 jobs as once through my time in pharmacy school and at the same time, I've managed to be dean's list throughout schooling. Its not hard. Hell I'm on rotations and I did 24 h of work this week on top of it. My rotation is not a walk in the park either.

In short, time to grow up and be a big person now. Kill or be killed, this is the big leagues.

Agreed.

Get a job.

Don't tell us or yourself that you don't have the time.

You need to be available to work, not only during the summer, but even when school is in session. Pharmacies cater to pharmacy students' schedule as it is (in most cases, in my opinion), knowing that you need to study and attend classes. But its total crap for you to think someone will waste perfect training time on you if you're just going to stick around in the summer.

Like Quiksilver###, I've worked 3 part time jobs (2 of which is pharmacy related), made deans list and Rho Chi honors in my class, have time to socialize if need be. So its possible. Even if you get one job, you could still maintain a high GPA.

I'm afraid with my circumstances, I won't have much choice but to pursue a residency, since I think my lack of experience will likely preclude me from getting a job in hospital or retail, or other places the majority of people commonly find work, not that I'm sure I even want to work in those settings - I'm still not certain what field I want to go into yet.

...

And if so, then I might as well just do a year of residency instead, right?

You're totally looking down on residency. Residencies are getting harder to get, at least the good ones are. You're better off getting a retail/hospital job when you graduate. But that's difficult too.

Moral of the story, get experience. Or get screwed over.

There are so many experienced people out there that should and will get hired over some graduate that only has their rotations as experience. Think about it. If you were someone looking to hire someone, would you hire yourself?... didn't think so.

 

[StriveForGlory]

I'm afraid with my circumstances, I won't have much choice but to pursue a residency, since I think my lack of experience will likely preclude me from getting a job in hospital or retail, or other places the majority of people commonly find work, not that I'm sure I even want to work in those settings - I'm still not certain what field I want to go into yet.

You need to realize that residencies are very VERY competitive. Dont think of them as something you are going to do if you have no other option. For most people who choose to do a residency, that is their first option, and they have worked their ass off trying to get that residency. What does that mean? That means that you are going to be going against people who have amazing gpas, tons of club involvement (including plenty of leadership positions), research experience, and plenty of pharmacy work experience. I mean this isnt always the case and your personality and ability to interview will go a long way too but just consider the fact that over a third of last year's residency applicant were not matched to a residency at all. So please dont think of it as a last resort. You gotta want it.

And yes, get a job. It will help you greatly. And from my experience it also makes school work a bit easier. You dont want to come out of school with all of this theoretical knowledge without ever having really applied any of it (APPEs are not enough, everyone will have APPEs)

 

[IndustryPharmD]

I have never heard of being asked to be an intern after you are licensed. Has anyone ever heard of this? I think at that point a company will ether hire you or not hire you, I doubt that any company will try to under employ you that way. What is in it for them? They ether want you as a pharmacist or they do not, I doubt they would prefer to have you as an intern.

Agreed. It doesn't make any sense. Either the company wants to invest time into training you - or it says screw you, we can find someone who can jump right in. There is no middle ground of a "licensed intern".

 

[IndustryPharmD]

Agreed.
Get a job.

Don't tell us or yourself that you don't have the time.

Yep. I was surprised when I moved to the East Coast and met all the coddled kids who pretended they needed to study all the time (not that they ever did) and therefore did not work. I thought everyone worked during pharmacy school, unless they were a single parent with a small kid, or had a baby less than a year old, or had other serious reasons not to work. 😀

I just can see it:
I am asking someone, after looking at their very slim CV, "So, what else have you done while you were in school?" And that someone blushes and says, "Ummm, I studied?" or, if they are more honest, "I partied" or "I am a lazy arse and watched TV/surfed the 'net". So, besides the expense (time and monetary) of training someone who is completely clueless, I have to deal with someone whose capacity for work is essentially limited to four-five hours of productive time a day. Why the hell would I pay them for 8 hours of work a day, then?

 

[bacillus1]

All these points are valid, but I'm just wondering the following:

IPPEs and APPEs already teach us about how to work in a pharmacy. Why do employers expect everyone to also have pharmacy jobs. This is not the reality for most other majors. Usually, if you manage to stay productive (leadership positions, research, etc...) it suffices. I don't see the requirement for med students to work in healthcare outside of rotations before they graduate. Pharmacy school is the last time we'll have to pursue our interests that we won't have time to pursue when we work full time. Why does it not suffice to just pursue those interests (as long as they're productive and contribute to your personal development)?

BTW I have a retail job so I'm not justifying joblessness, but just wondering why are all these responsibilities piled on us, and can't we just do what we feel makes us better people, especially if we're getting pharmacy work experience through mandatory coursework?

 

[DrPepsi]

All these points are valid, but I'm just wondering the following:

IPPEs and APPEs already teach us about how to work in a pharmacy. Why do employers expect everyone to also have pharmacy jobs. This is not the reality for most other majors. Usually, if you manage to stay productive (leadership positions, research, etc...) it suffices. I don't see the requirement for med students to work in healthcare outside of rotations before they graduate. Pharmacy school is the last time we'll have to pursue our interests that we won't have time to pursue when we work full time. Why does it not suffice to just pursue those interests (as long as they're productive and contribute to your personal development)?

BTW I have a retail job so I'm not justifying joblessness, but just wondering why are all these responsibilities piled on us, and can't we just do what we feel makes us better people, especially if we're getting pharmacy work experience through mandatory coursework?

I have to agree with you. The idea of pharmacy students graduating with zero experience is impossible with the way the current curriculum is set up, why would a pharmacy turn you away because "you have no experience"?

 

[johnep34]

We are beginning to experience similar problems in the UK. Me, I was lucky in that I just walked straight into a Saturday job at age 16. By the time I got to Uni I had four years experience. Continued working weekends and vacs while at uni, so had 8 yrs experience before my first full time job. Even this was in teaching for a couple of years and still worked at week ends etc. By the time I started my first community job had been in pharmacy for 10 years.

Nowadays, few stores will employ Saturday boys/girls due to so much red tape legislation re hours for under 18s etc. We too have graduates with no practical experience and a severe shortage of places in community for their year pre reg/intern.

One problem is that 25% of community workforce are self employed locums/reliefs and these cannot be tutors/preceptors. Many community pharmacies have no regular pharmacist and are staffed by locums.

With more schools of pharmacy opening, problem can only get worse.
johnep

 

[Pharmfan100]

All these points are valid, but I'm just wondering the following:

IPPEs and APPEs already teach us about how to work in a pharmacy. Why do employers expect everyone to also have pharmacy jobs. This is not the reality for most other majors. Usually, if you manage to stay productive (leadership positions, research, etc...) it suffices. I don't see the requirement for med students to work in healthcare outside of rotations before they graduate. Pharmacy school is the last time we'll have to pursue our interests that we won't have time to pursue when we work full time. Why does it not suffice to just pursue those interests (as long as they're productive and contribute to your personal development)?

BTW I have a retail job so I'm not justifying joblessness, but just wondering why are all these responsibilities piled on us, and can't we just do what we feel makes us better people, especially if we're getting pharmacy work experience through mandatory coursework?

The problem isn't that there isn't some pharmacy experience. It's that those without consistent work experience are unable to function at the level needed to be productive as a pharmacist. If you work, you may not fully understand the advantage.

If you haven't worked, by the time you get to your APPES, you have forgotten half of what you you've learned in class because you never applied it. Now you are playing catch up. Add to that the fact that you are changing sites and preceptors rather quickly and you wind up with a very confused intern. He's not confused because he hasn't seen a pharmacy before. He's confused because he gets a script for glucophage and doesn't know the generic is metformin. So when the patient asks if you have it in stock, he's trying to figure out what it is (wasting time). He gets a third party reject saying something needs a PA and he doesn't know what that means either.

The 'A' in APPE stands for Advanced. There's no time to review the basics. That's what working does. It gets you comfortable and experienced enough in a pharmacy that you can function and not have to play catch up.

 

[bacillus1]

The 'A' in APPE stands for Advanced. There's no time to review the basics. That's what working does. It gets you comfortable and experienced enough in a pharmacy that you can function and not have to play catch up.

And the "I" in IPPE stands for introductory. If the purpose of IPPEs is not to get you experienced enough to do APPEs, then IPPEs should be scrapped altogether.

Generics can be looked up by many computer systems pretty quickly.

 

[IndustryPharmD]

IPPEs and APPEs already teach us about how to work in a pharmacy.

They don't. IPPEs are shadowing, and shadowing has never taught anyone how to actually do the job. It's merely there so people have an idea what they are getting into so they can quit before it's too late. 🙄

APPEs... they are very different. Most of the APPEs are clinically oriented, allowing you to apply your knowledge to the actual, real, live patients. They do not teach you how to actually work in a particular function. I guess if you did enough plain community rotations or plain hospital rotations you would have the idea, but most students hate them (because they hate beign free labor and want to feel like they are learning something more clinical) and therefore their experience coming out of APPEs is very much skewed towards academic and far less towards the real world.

Why do employers expect everyone to also have pharmacy jobs. This is not the reality for most other majors.

Most other majors have far more severe competition for the jobs, and yes, those who get good positions out of school ARE those who completed internships, co-ops or worked in the field or in a related area during school. You know how many of those other majors grads flip burgers, man sales floors in department stores or call centers for months and months after graduation because they can't find real jobs?

Why does it not suffice to just pursue those interests (as long as they're productive and contribute to your personal development)?

Because as your employer I would be interested in you contributing to my organization, not pursuing your own interests. Better get used to it early on, or it will get much more painful later.

In my experience, those who did not work during school were much more naive about the healthcare system as a whole and somewhat lacking in common sense when it comes to working in a real pharmacy. And God, they were slow. As in "I will want to strangle if you I ever have to work with you again" slow.

 

[DrPepsi]

The students that have done IPPE's where I work didn't shadow, they actually got involved in what we do. Or is this just a regional thing where some students are free labor and some just shadow?

 

[rxlea]

What about those students who have extensive experience? Wouldn't it be boring for them to shadow?

 

[rjk]

What about those students who have extensive experience? Wouldn't it be boring for them to shadow?

yes. it is.

 

[StriveForGlory]

All these points are valid, but I'm just wondering the following:

IPPEs and APPEs already teach us about how to work in a pharmacy. Why do employers expect everyone to also have pharmacy jobs. This is not the reality for most other majors. Usually, if you manage to stay productive (leadership positions, research, etc...) it suffices. I don't see the requirement for med students to work in healthcare outside of rotations before they graduate. Pharmacy school is the last time we'll have to pursue our interests that we won't have time to pursue when we work full time. Why does it not suffice to just pursue those interests (as long as they're productive and contribute to your personal development)?

BTW I have a retail job so I'm not justifying joblessness, but just wondering why are all these responsibilities piled on us, and can't we just do what we feel makes us better people, especially if we're getting pharmacy work experience through mandatory coursework?

While it may be reasonable to wonder why this is all necessary it is also necessary to realize that this is the reality nowadays. A good portion of my classmates have work experience, and if you are an employer looking at someone who has work experience and someone who doesnt who are you going to pick? The job market isnt the best right now so figuring out ways to set you apart from your classmates often does come down to how much work experience you have.

 

[owlegrad]

What about those students who have extensive experience? Wouldn't it be boring for them to shadow?

Bingo!

Edit: For those of us who work during pharmacy school, how are our APPE's? I mean, if you have work experience how much do you get out of them? More, because you have "the basics" mastered and can concentrate on learning higher order knowledge? Or less, because you already know much of what they are gonna teach you so you kinda end up as free labor? In reality I am sure it can go ether way depending on the site, but I am just curious what people that have been through this think.

 

[aboveliquidice]

Bingo!

Edit: For those of us who work during pharmacy school, how are our APPE's? I mean, if you have work experience how much do you get out of them? More, because you have "the basics" mastered and can concentrate on learning higher order knowledge? Or less, because you already know much of what they are gonna teach you so you kinda end up as free labor? In reality I am sure it can go ether way depending on the site, but I am just curious what people that have been through this think.

APPEs are the "sizzler" of pharmacy. It allows you to trial different practice settings with zero liability. At no other time in our careers will we have "no strings attached" access such as these. My retail APPE reaffirmed my dislike for it. My IHS and VA rotations helped me clear up what type of federal service I really wanted to do.

In providing this Smörgåsbord service, APPEs ensure you make an informed decision concerning your future.

 

[Pharmfan100]

And the "I" in IPPE stands for introductory. If the purpose of IPPEs is not to get you experienced enough to do APPEs, then IPPEs should be scrapped altogether.

Generics can be looked up by many computer systems pretty quickly.

What I've heard is that IPPEs were not extensive enough in the past and have been modified. At least here they have. I don't see IPPEs making anyones rotations better or easier. It gives you more opportunities to network and you may decide that you would like a particular site as part of your APPEs.

Anything can be looked up and there is nothing wrong with looking it up. But certain things become second nature if you work. That's with anything. The OP should definitely work if they can find an opening. There's no need to put yourself at a disadvantage. Those that work are distinguished quite quickly from those that don't. At the end of the day however, if you graduate and pass your boards, you're still a pharmacist!

 

[Quiksilver]

is it me or are there a lot of ******ed questions and opinions in this thread. I have never heard of interning after graduating, where did that idea even come from? IPPEs are introductory, they are by no means work experience. APPEs may be experience, but hey everyone else has to do them, so you don't set yourself apart from others at all. I was pretty sure this was all common sense until I read this thread.

Anyways my advice still stands, get a freakin job.

Have a nice day 🙂

 

[IndustryPharmD]

APPEs are the "sizzler" of pharmacy. It allows you to trial different practice settings with zero liability. At no other time in our careers will we have "no strings attached" access such as these. My retail APPE reaffirmed my dislike for it. My IHS and VA rotations helped me clear up what type of federal service I really wanted to do.

In providing this Smörgåsbord service, APPEs ensure you make an informed decision concerning your future.

Yep. It's kind of like speed dating - you learn what career paths you want to explore, and that's about it. It takes a lot more than a month to learn a job properly. 🙂 And students on rotation, as much as they like to think of themselves as a free labor (and I did think it when I was a student) don't get exposed to more than half of all what's going on and what they would have to deal with as employees (usually the more headachy parts, too). And students don't quite realize the amount of time it takes for a preceptor (if they are a good preceptor) to organize everything for them and teach them... it's impossible to fully understand and appreciate unless you go on the other side and become a preceptor. 🙂

 

[rxlynn]

All these points are valid, but I'm just wondering the following:

IPPEs and APPEs already teach us about how to work in a pharmacy. Why do employers expect everyone to also have pharmacy jobs. This is not the reality for most other majors. Usually, if you manage to stay productive (leadership positions, research, etc...) it suffices. I don't see the requirement for med students to work in healthcare outside of rotations before they graduate. Pharmacy school is the last time we'll have to pursue our interests that we won't have time to pursue when we work full time. Why does it not suffice to just pursue those interests (as long as they're productive and contribute to your personal development)?

BTW I have a retail job so I'm not justifying joblessness, but just wondering why are all these responsibilities piled on us, and can't we just do what we feel makes us better people, especially if we're getting pharmacy work experience through mandatory coursework?

My reaction to this thread is the following:
Really, your IPPE and APPEs will ideally give you a taste of a lot of different pharmacy settings, but by themselves don't really give you enough to be fully qualified to step right in and work. In the past that didn't matter, because there were so many pharmacist openings that many employers hired anyone with a license. Realistically do any of you on this board think that a new grad with 56 hours of retail IPPE and 5 weeks of retail APPE would be ready to step into a typical 400 or 500 Rx per day big chain pharmacy and successfully function? The above is the requirement of my pharmacy school for retail contact hours. Those of you who are still students - do not be delusional! There's a big learning curve that just APPEs won't cover.

 

[rxlynn]

What about those students who have extensive experience? Wouldn't it be boring for them to shadow?

Yes - it was boring. I had 6 years experience before I started pharmacy school, so by the time APPEs rolled around I had 9. But, I just tried to make the best of the situations and learn what I could. If nothing else it was good to have some exposure to another employer besides who I worked for. And, really - it's not like I had a choice - had to do a community APPE to graduate.

 

[mustang sally]

To answer the original question, no, I don't think your circumstances are unusual. I finished P2 this year and I am just starting an internship this summer. There are students in my class who still don't have a job. The economy has sucked for a while now and with a pharmacy school in town it is hard to find something local. In my state, you have to have intern hours to get licensed after you graduate, so people who can't find a job are doubly screwed.

My advice is to just keep looking as hard as you can. You only just finished P1 so you still have some time to find an internship and work. You can always try applying for internships in other cities/states for summer after P2 if you can't find anything during the school year. It is hard to get an internship right now in a lot of places so you can't be too picky.