quick question - salaries for psychiatrists?

learn how to start a private practice
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
R

redbookfan

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Messages
39
Reaction score
0
Hello All,

There are several of us in my med school class considering psychiatry for residency and when ppl ask some of us - how much do psychiatrists make? - we don't really have a very clear cut idea. I've definitely heard of extrememes where ppl make $300,000-400,000 and then I've also heard of the $150,000-200,000 end.

Any idea what the averages are?

Differences in salaries amongst inpt vs. outpt?

Differences between private practice vs. working for a hospital or govt county mental center?

Also, any idea how much child psychiatrists make versus adult psychiatrists?

Also, any idea on how specialization (like addiction medicine, forensic medicine, etc) affects salaries?

If any knows these answers, would be greatly appreciated by a bunch of us:) And if any one knows of a link or something where I can find this info, that would be great too. Thanks!
Members don't see this ad.
 
The problem with quoting salaries in any field of medicine is that there are so many variables that come into play. Here is a link to a blog that discusses the different specialties and their salaries. It is fairly accurate as they give ranges and include comments on new physicians and seasoned physicians' salaries. The links to the various specialty salaries are half way down on the left had side. You will find psychiatry there as well. Check it out:

http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/

The basic range was $165,000 to $250,000 with the average being right around $195,000. The brand new psychiatry salary average is around $165,000 (right out of residency)

However you will find a wide range salaries and situations. I personally know a part time psychiatrist making $90K / year and a very busy psychiatrist with other psychiatrists and mid-levels working for him who makes over $1,000,000. So it can be difficult to generalize.
 
redbookfan said:
Hello All,

There are several of us in my med school class considering psychiatry for residency and when ppl ask some of us - how much do psychiatrists make? - we don't really have a very clear cut idea. I've definitely heard of extrememes where ppl make $300,000-400,000 and then I've also heard of the $150,000-200,000 end.

Any idea what the averages are?

Differences in salaries amongst inpt vs. outpt?

Differences between private practice vs. working for a hospital or govt county mental center?

Also, any idea how much child psychiatrists make versus adult psychiatrists?

Also, any idea on how specialization (like addiction medicine, forensic medicine, etc) affects salaries?

If any knows these answers, would be greatly appreciated by a bunch of us:) And if any one knows of a link or something where I can find this info, that would be great too. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I read about this question a lot, but I'm only an MS4 so everything I say is 2nd/3rd hand.

Assuming you want to work about 40hrs/wk (something at attracts me and others to the field) I think 150K is a ballpark salary. However, this depends on where you live and your practice environment.

A graduating resident told me that they had received offers of 125K for a cushy junior faculty position in academics to promises of >250K doing outpatient med checks all day in private practice for general adult psych somewhere in the southeast.

It really is going to depend on your practice set-up.

Child/Adolescent makes more (180-250K) than General Adult. But this varies tremendously with the actual job and the location. There are many sick children in group homes that desperately need psychiatric care, but those jobs don't tend to pay too much more than general adult psych ~180K???)

The opposite end of the spectrum are the cash-only child psych practices which can make tons of money with great lifestyle control. The downside to these positions are the demanding parents ("Johnny made a B on his finger painting exam. His teacher thinks he has ADHD. If you're not going to give him Ritalin I'm going to someone who will.")

But it's not all like that either. For example, I know a person who was previously an adult Critical Care Nephrologist who then did a psych residency --> Child/Psych fellowship. She has the reputation of being the best child psych doc in a medium-sized city and has a long waiting list of people wanting to pay her cash only. She now screens her patients for people she wants to work with (mostly autism/ADHD) and takes cash only. She cherry picks patients and their parents who she thinks she can work with (and who she thinks will benefit from her care) and she has plenty of work. She does this by offering the initial interview free, and then she decides whether or not "it's a mutual fit." She makes a lot of money, but I don't know how much.

For the experienced psych docs/residents - how much did I get wrong? What would you add? I'd love to hear more discussion on this.
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
BobA said:
But it's not all like that either. For example, I know a person who was previously an adult Critical Care Nephrologist who then did a psych residency --> Child/Psych fellowship. She has the reputation of being the best child psych doc in a medium-sized city and has a long waiting list of people wanting to pay her cash only. She now screens her patients for people she wants to work with (mostly autism/ADHD) and takes cash only. She cherry picks patients and their parents who she thinks she can work with (and who she thinks will benefit from her care) and she has plenty of work. She does this by offering the initial interview free, and then she decides whether or not "it's a mutual fit." She makes a lot of money, but I don't know how much.
Click to expand...

That's a nice story. If you like what you do and are exceptionally good at it, people will always be demanding your services

:thumbup:
 
Everyone points to the locum tenens salary listings. But it's probably wise to keep in mind that they have a vested interest in reporting the highest possible salaries to attract recruits.

Also, locum tenens salaries will be artificially inflated, since they have higher salaries in exchange for a lack of benefits. A contractor will always earn more than the full-timer for a comparable job.
 
True enough: actually the part that most interested me is the "Would you choose medicine again?" had psychiatrists with the highest 'yes' %
 
chameleonknight said:
True enough: actually the part that most interested me is the "Would you choose medicine again?" had psychiatrists with the highest 'yes' %
Click to expand...
Amen. I know it's not very scientific, but looking at different residency options, I put a fair bit of stock in how happy the various practitioner looked. Psych, EM, Rads and PM&R all looked to be pretty happy folks. A lot of the residencies (pretty much the ones you'd expect) had a whole lot of miserable looking people.

Like I said, not very scientific, but probably pretty telling.
 
Of course this is third hand information, but most of our recently graduated psych residents in New Jersey seem to be starting around 185,000 a year.
 
Scorcher31 said:
Of course this is third hand information, but most of our recently graduated psych residents in New Jersey seem to be starting around 185,000 a year.
Click to expand...

Talking to the residents in my school's program, they mentioned that there were enough offers to throw away all non-academic offers that were less than $180,000.
 
EL CAPeeeTAN said:
The basic range was $165,000 to $250,000 with the average being right around $195,000. The brand new psychiatry salary average is around $165,000 (right out of residency)

.
Click to expand...

That's pretty accurate for private practice; for gov jobs- state hospitals, VA's, etc, it's in the $130,000 to $200,000 range for 40 hours per week.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Can anyone comment on what clinical academic faculty can expect?

I know it's less than private. And I'm not even considering private. Just curious.
 
it seems like psychiatry average earning is less than fm, or an internists even with the extra year of training. is it truth?
 
stn2006 said:
it seems like psychiatry average earning is less than fm, or an internists even with the extra year of training. is it truth?
Click to expand...

No, they make slightly more for less hours of work.
 
Seems to me that if you look at earnings on a per-hour basis, psychiatrists actually do pretty well. By the same token, psychiatry is a field where the earning potential is limited primarily by how much you want to work. I'm guessing that the relatively low average salary of psychiatrists is related to the fact that the people who go into this field are less interested in making money than they are in their own sanity and quality of life.
 
Shouldn't be a problem making 180-200K conservatively; from attendings I have known.
 
Of course this is third hand information, but most of our recently graduated psych residents in New Jersey seem to be starting around 185,000 a year.
Click to expand...

You also got to factor in that in NJ, the cost of living is one of the highest in the country.

Property taxes in NJ are through the roof, and the cost of real estate can be twice, even 3x as much as a similar piece of real estate in several other parts of the country. A 185K salary in NJ could be an equivalent of 130K in Iowa--> where psychiatrists get paid a lot more than they do in NJ.

Also factor that some places have good retirement packages, while others don't. I don't know much about locum tenens, but I'd suspect they do not offer retirement packages or 401K like deals, or at least do not offer them on the same order as if you worked at a place full time.

Some of the state hospitals in NJ are dungeons, with staff showing the corresponding work you'd expect (e.g. having sex with patients, leaving patients unattended on a one to one, so the state allowed for two to ones to be implemented which only encouraged lazy staff members to do even less work because there's another person there...), but are offering pay on the order of 200K. I'd rather be working in a much nicer setting for a lower salary.
 
I'm guessing the Teamsters or AFSCME were involved somewhere along the line...
Click to expand...

My suspicions as well, and that's what the docs at some of the facilities were telling me.

My mother who is a retired psychiatrist worked in a state facility. A guy was on a one to one (wiith a police officer becuase he was charged with a violent crime). The officer left the violent offender alone so he could get food without waiting for someone to take his place, and that put him in the same hallway as my mother.

Well, getting to the point, the psychotic patient went to her (she's a short woman, he was over 6 feet, and 250 lbs) and picked her up by her neck a la Darth Vader from Star Wars in the beginning scene. She was rendered unconcious, and a nurse saw what was going on and pulled the alarm. The nurse was only in that hallway by random chance. She had to wear a neck brace for a few weeks. Had that nurse walked in just a few minutes later, she could've been dead.

1.5 years ago at one of the NJ state facilities, a patient committed killed himself while on a two to one. The state investigated the matter, and ahem, their solution was to put metal detectors in all the units. The guy's suicide involved no metal objects. Well, I guess for the newspapers, and general public seeing more money thrown at the situation was good enough of a solution.

I witnessed an event at the same facility where a patient was upset he was on a two to one, complained about it to treatment team, and then the 2 men on the two to one started complaining with the patient, telling him he was right. Those two men were only upset because they were part of the union, which they repeatedly mentioned, and mentioned they were considering a strike if they didn't get higher pay. It had nothing to do with the patietnt's complaints, and they were encouraging him to complain for the wrong reasons.

The attending got ticked off (I very much agreed with her) and told her not to complain their issues in front of patients, and that there was a separate process for this type of complaint. Of course-that just lowered her street cred to her staff, which increased her risk of harm should one of her patients get out of line. Those staff will respond just a little more slowly next time she's being attacked....(and I'm not exaggerating. At that facility this type of thing happened).

Bottom line: I worked at a state forensic facility with dangerous patients, where my pay was not 200K a year, but the facility was very nice, and the staff were competent. Compare that to a place where the staff are just a step or two above a felon, the facility is like a dungeon, and you're with dangerous patients -> I think you get the point.

Everytime I asked why the situation was so bad--almost everyone had the same answer. The unions, even other union members who begrudgingly admitted it was a problem, though they were thankful for the benefits the union gave them.
 
Last edited:
huhhh, I wonder if the insurance company or if the gov't let psychiatrists do telepsychiatry for the prison population?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

A
Reaction to psychiatrists doing therapy
2
Replies
60
Views
4K
calvnandhobbs68
calvnandhobbs68
W
Should psychiatrists de-stigmatize self immolation?
Replies
27
Views
1K
clausewitz2
clausewitz2
G
Private Practice quick questions
Replies
27
Views
3K
TexasPhysician
TexasPhysician
T
Psychiatrists boarded in C&A and forensics
Replies
6
Views
759
Transistor
T
clozareal
Non-psychiatrists practicing psychiatry
Replies
36
Views
2K
Sushirolls
Sushirolls
Top