Quitting Dentistry for Medicine?

[Ascent23510]

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Hello Dentists of SDN,

I am in a predicament. I’m at a crossroads and wouldn’t be asking this without doing as much research before hand.

One year ago I was accepted into a DO school in PA where I deferred by a year. The reason I deferred was because there were some doubts creeping up about doing a career in medicine. I shadowed a few physicians who seemed extremely entrenched in their work and it made me look for an alternative.

I chose to shadow a few dentists in my area running their own practices. They seemed very laid back and were doing financially well. I decided to apply to Dental schools and got accepted to Case Western. I still have my acceptance for the med school in PA and now have been undecided on what to commit to.

The things I like about medicine:

-Flexibility in what you can go into
-Benefits from hospital systems (paid time off/ insurance, etc)
-Less Debt
-High base pay

The things I don’t like:

-The length of training, especially residency
-The stress of Boards and matching into a specialty
-How busy you are in general. More hours at work constantly
- Harder to start/ run a practice

The things I like about Dentistry are:

-Working with hands
-Precise work
-Less hours
- Running a practice more feasible/ higher earning ceiling

The things I dislike about Dentistry are:

-Potential back/neck issues
-Feels like you have to sell to your patients sometimes from what I’ve seen
-Insane levels of debt
-Working on teeth doesn’t entice me as much but I’m not against it or anything

My end goal is to help people but also do a job that doesn’t wear me out but at the same time also gives me fulfillment. I don’t have a burning passion for Dentistry or medicine in particular to the point where I can only see myself doing one. Truth be told: I want to work at a job where I make good income, have a good lifestyle, am respected, and can work with a team in. I don’t want to be too burnt out but am willing to work very hard to be successful.

I did consider other careers, worked in a few different fields but felt unfulfilled. I am now at a crossroads to take my life to the next level but am torn on which path to take.

The biggest thing off putting about medicine is the stress and burn out rate from hours worked. I’m scared I won’t be able to raise a healthy family while in that field. My biggest disturbance about Dentistry is the sheer amount of predatory debt I may be in when I graduate.

I may find true fulfillment in medicine but I also think running my own dental practice and building up to that can also be very fulfilling.

I’m at a crossroads and really need input as to what path to take. I’ve shadowed both paths and dentistry definitely seems like the nicer, more laid back profession. However the dentists I shadowed were incredibly successful making 300-400K + as owners. Is Dentistry something I should pursue or is a DO medical degree the better alternative? I have to decide by the end of the week so any advice is appreciated.

Both fields are difficult in their own ways and are vastly different in many ways. If you were in my shoes what would you do?

 

[unsatisfiedomfs]

Not to be rude but you’re in a dental forum. You’re going to get bias towards dentistry here with the occasional I hate my life. There’s a million reasons to go into either, only you can truly decide. Things are never truly as good and rarely ever as bad as people make them out to be. There’s tons of different paths within each field that you could pursue that would eventually give you adequate work life balance with a solid income.

It sounds like you aren’t sold on either and hoping for someone to make a decision for you. I wouldn’t do dentistry again unless I was sure I’d end up in OMFS. I’m sure plenty disagree and have meaningful careers in their chosen speciality. Flip a coin, and chose whatever side you HOPE to land on.

 

[FutureDent020]

I’d go into medicine and work hard toward a rewarding specialty. I don’t like the road dentistry is going down. And yea, you pretty much summed up the “cons” of dentistry. And they are very real.

 

[D1Bound]

The people you shadowed are established owners. That’s not real life for you anytime soon. You say medicine has no work life balance, but then contrast to high debt level in dentistry. That also means having no life. You will have very little work life balance in dentistry for a long time because you will be drowning in debt. There’s no easy path ahead.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I think all of your concerns are valid and they’re all something many of us have had to consider before. Like said above, this is a dental form so you can guess which decision we all made. I am writing from the unique perspective of being a practicing general dentist dating a girl who is in DO school. This is just what fits me and my personality, so you need to figure out what fits you.

Back in high school I assumed that I was interested in medicine. I shadowed my friend’s dad, who was an Emergency Med Physician at a local hospital. This was right around when Obamacare was being put into place. I spent about 40 hours shadowing and the entire time all I heard was how I should avoid medicine. That was eye opening to me. Everyone felt the grass was greener. People were not happy with the direction medicine was heading, especially with insurance. Insurances affect dentistry, too, albeit to a smaller extent. My friend had a nice life. They lived in a massive house, drove nice cars, and took nice vacations. His dad worked a combination of nights and day shifts, though, and did have to deal with being on call. Shortly after I shadowed, my friends dad retired from medicine and went and took a job in pharma. That was telling to me.

So I went away to college. The summer after my freshman year I shadowed my dentist. He worked 3.5 days a week, had a nice life, golfed all the time, owned a plane, owned a practice, had relationships with his patients. Worked daytime hours. It was night and day! I explored dentistry more. I met a couple who co-owned a practice. They each worked 2 days per week and made $300k per year. It became more and more obvious to me that there is a lot of flexibility in dentistry.

My ego almost got in the way. I did very well in college and almost felt like pursuing dentistry was settling. After all, a lot of very smart people go into medicine. I remember my senior year of college, after I had accepted a seat in dental school, I asked my research advisor if I was making the wrong decision not to go into medicine. He told me that I “just seem like a dentistry kind of guy”. I didn’t know what he meant at the time, but now I kind of see it.

I love dentistry. It pays well, and pays off much earlier than medicine. I make over $400k/year as an associate dentist right now living in a major city and working 25 mins outside of the city. I don’t even own a practice yet. I LIKE the fact that you have to “sell” your treatment plan to patients more than a cardiac surgeon, for example. I do well with that. At the end of the day, YOU are responsible for your income. If you work hard, you’ll get paid well! I started working at 26 years old. I paid off my loans in a little over a year. Everything I’ve made since then has been invested. I’m financially minded. I play around with investment calculators a lot. I see how much money the investments that I have will grow. I’m 29 with hundreds of thousands of dollars invested. Being able to have that money invested while young makes an exponential difference. There are so many different things out there about if you start saving at 20 vs at 30 and how drastic of a difference it makes. I don’t have debt and won’t have to work hard later in my career if I don’t want to. Be smart about your debt. I lived at home in dental school and commuted. I didn’t travel during dental school. I worked a job over breaks during dental school, etc. You dont HAVE to fall victim to predatory dental school debt.

I feel bad in a way because my girlfriend looks at me, an associate dentist, making more than she will make after she’s all done with residency/fellowship. She’s delaying her life for medicine. She’s delaying her freedom for medicine. She’s delaying her investments for medicine. The MATCH is coming up. She might match in a different state, she doesn’t have total control of where she ends up. She works very hard. I respect how hard she works and how dedicated she is. She’s about to go into residency working 12 hours a day 6 days a week to make peanuts. Medicine is very noble. Being a DO is very noble. In a way they have to work a lot harder than an MD to get where they are going. As a DO there is still some degree of being “looked down on” by others in medicine. For example, find a DO in ophthalmology. It’s so rare. Most DOs end up going into primary care. Not saying DOs cannot match into competitive specialties, they can, but you must work very hard to do so every step of the way. If you want to go into a competitive specialty as a DO you have to be at the top of your class. A lot of times you have to find research opportunities outside of your school because many DO programs are not associated with huge academic centers. I assume you’re talking about PCOM which is a great school. There are some very well compensated areas of medicine that can give you a great lifestyle as well. But it is very hard work. They have earned all of it. I feel like they are under compensated for all of the sacrifice they make to go into medicine. My girlfriend’s brother is a radiologist. It’s one of the “cushier” jobs in medicine. But I’m pretty sure he and I make a similar amount of money. I do work 1.25 more days a week than him. But he delayed his income until 32 years old. By 32 years old I’ll be well on my way to having $1 million invested. I’ll have a lot of passive income by then.

The lifestyle of dentistry appealed to me, and it aligned with my skillset and my values more than medicine did. I like that I help people every day. I like that I feel like I work hard and am well compensated as a result. I like that it has given me a great deal of flexibility at a young age. It’s not all sunshine. You deal with some a**holes. I have some minor neck pain, but nothing that affects my life in any way at this point. The floor is lower. But the ceiling is higher. For me, going into dentistry was the best decision I could have ever made.

Sorry for the rant, but I hope that I helped and wish you luck. Feel free to PM me directly.

 

[Saddleshoes]

Flip a Coin!

In the grand scheme of things, you can do well both ways.

 

[JacquesVallee]

I just looked at the cost of Case Western Dental and it's >500k. Even if that were your only option, I wouldn't choose it. I would absolutely choose medicine if I were you. Dentistry is going downhill. First, any desirable place is severely saturated. I interviewed at a place forty minutes away from a saturated city and the owner told me she had 20 qualified dentists apply. Because of this, most in my class ended up going corporate and many of them are miserable. Moreover, they are saddled with 350k debt for instate and 600k out of state and making roughly 120-140k while working 5 grueling days a week. Most haven't as much as made a dent in their loans. The places you're shadowing were people who opened practices long ago when that was the norm. That simply is the exception now. Of everyone in my class, maybe 3 are owners. I recommend you shadow at Aspen to see what a realistic possibility for you is.

To avoid many of the pitfalls of dentistry, I moved to the middle of nowhere. I'm fortunate in that I get to practice dentistry much more traditionally and get to make a great income and pay off my loans (unlike most of my classmates). However, living in the middle of nowhere has been miserable. There are very few young people here so I have very little community, and there is almost nothing to do. I also found out I don't really enjoy dentistry as much as I thought I would. It's incredibly grueling being hunched over all day working in milimeters on patients who have no desire to see you. You really don't know how much you'll like dentistry until you're doing it.

Medicine will give you so many more options than dentistry. You can definitely find a field within medicine you like. As a DO, you won't be relegated to primary care if you don't want to be. Sure, you probably won't match derm or neurosurgery, but PM&R, pathology, and neurology will all be very open to you. You're bound to find some field of medicine you like. As a dentist, you're probably going to be a general dentist, even if you don't like it.

 

[yappy]

I am not mad about my career as a dentist but I think you should focus on the end state of each path, as hard as that may seem right now. Working for a corporate hospital is superior to a corporate dental chain. It’s just a more established and professional work environment and, on average, you'll be paid more. Do medicine for a more straightforward, comfortable, career with less headaches.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I am not mad about my career as a dentist but I think you should focus on the end state of each path, as hard as that may seem right now. Working for a corporate hospital is superior to a corporate dental chain. It’s just a more established and professional work environment and, on average, you'll be paid more. Do medicine for a more straightforward, comfortable, career with less headaches.

And working for yourself is better than working for a corporate hospital. Working for corporate dentistry should never be your end goal.

 

[yappy]

And working for yourself is better than working for a corporate hospital. Working for corporate dentistry should never be your end goal.

Not for everyone. Many people are not up to the challenges of establishing and running a private practice. For W2 employment, physicians have a better deal (right now). Most physicians have higher pay, annual raises, employer-sponsored medical benefits, retirement fund matching, and paid time off. Also, their work environments are more professional than the typical dental office staffed with mostly entry-level employees. Either way, it's best to do what interests you most because it's a long path to becoming a dentist or physician. But in purely objective terms, on average, physicians have the better gig.

 

[DustFreeEraser]

Be objective when comparing the professions.
Clinician vs Clinician
Business/Clinic Owner vs Business/Clinic Owner.
Do not compare Clinician vs Business/Clinic Owner.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Be objective when comparing the professions.
Clinician vs Clinician
Business/Clinic Owner vs Business/Clinic Owner.
Do not compare Clinician vs Business/Clinic Owner.

How do you do this when in one of the professions it’s much more common to be a business owner and in the other profession it’s much more common to work for a big hospital system?

 

[JacquesVallee]

How do you do this when in one of the professions it’s much more common to be a business owner and in the other profession it’s much more common to work for a big hospital system?

But you're more than likely not going to be a business owner in either.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

But you're more than likely not going to be a business owner in either.

According to the ADA, as of 2021, 73% of dentists own their own practice. Sure, there is a trend of decreasing ownership, partly a result of the student loan burden, partly a result of changing societal trends, but the odds are still there and still significant. A lot of people today don’t want to own which is their prerogative. If the OP wants to own their own practice, it is very feasible. Much more feasible in dentistry than medicine.

 

[toothnumber32]

personally speaking I would choose dentistry again if I could be an oral surgeon. I wouldn’t do it if I was going to be a general dentist unfortunately.
I matched into a 4 year omfs program straight from dental school.
It is very competitive to do this.

Many of my close colleagues in omfs we have this conversation quite regularly - if we would recommend dentistry to our kids. I’d say half of us or more, would not even recommend that our own kids do dentistry.

That being said this profession has been very very good to me and I could not ask for more from omfs. It’s exceeded all my expectations.

It’s very tough to choose between medicine and dentistry in today’s day and age. I would say both are good if you can get into the competitive specialties (orthopedic surgery, plastic surgery, ophthalmology etc)
From my understanding it’s tough when you are a DO. That being said I’d choose dentistry over being a DO. It would give you a better chance at specializing into something decent. For example endo or dental anesthesiology.

The cost of dental school is not an issue if you specialize into the good ones. It’s an issue if your a gp.

 

[FutureDent020]

How do you do this when in one of the professions it’s much more common to be a business owner and in the other profession it’s much more common to work for a big hospital system?

One issue I’m seeing is my area is every private practice that has an owner over 50 yo is selling to corporate. DSO’s just got allowed in several years ago. These older business owners are worn down and want a payout. They want to get out of the stress of ownership in an environment where pleasing people has become tougher, staffing has become tougher, and costs have increased. Now that doesn’t mean younger dentists can’t still be entrepreneurs, but the real estate is just becoming super saturated. So it’s hard for younger dentists to start a practice in the desirable markets. Sure, you can go further out, but even those are becoming saturated and there are less people.

My friends who are physicians seem super content. At least the ones who do anesthesia, nuero, ENT, emergency, ortho. Very high paying jobs and there is zero concern about job security. Plus they are salaried, not “eat what you kill” like dentistry. And these are $600K plus salaries. More for some of the specialties. I make similar but I’m sweating referrals, only getting super tough cases, working 5 days a week, breaking my back. My ortho buddy makes $800K and only does surgeries 2.5 days a week, and clinical rounds the 2 other days.

 

[yappy]

One issue I’m seeing is my area is every private practice that has an owner over 50 yo is selling to corporate. DSO’s just got allowed in several years ago. These older business owners are worn down and want a payout. They want to get out of the stress of ownership in an environment where pleasing people has become tougher, staffing has become tougher, and costs have increased. Now that doesn’t mean younger dentists can’t still be entrepreneurs, but the real estate is just becoming super saturated. So it’s hard for younger dentists to start a practice in the desirable markets. Sure, you can go further out, but even those are becoming saturated and there are less people.

My friends who are physicians seem super content. At least the ones who do anesthesia, nuero, ENT, emergency, ortho. Very high paying jobs and there is zero concern about job security. Plus they are salaried, not “eat what you kill” like dentistry. And these are $600K plus salaries. More for some of the specialties. I make similar but I’m sweating referrals, only getting super tough cases, working 5 days a week, breaking my back. My ortho buddy makes $800K and only does surgeries 2.5 days a week, and clinical rounds the 2 other days.

Are you a practice owner or employee?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

My friends who are physicians seem super content. At least the ones who do anesthesia, nuero, ENT, emergency, ortho. Very high paying jobs and there is zero concern about job security. Plus they are salaried, not “eat what you kill” like dentistry. And these are $600K plus salaries. More for some of the specialties. I make similar but I’m sweating referrals, only getting super tough cases, working 5 days a week, breaking my back. My ortho buddy makes $800K and only does surgeries 2.5 days a week, and clinical rounds the 2 other days.

I think you are going to find that both professions are great compared to other professions so there is going to be a lot of job satisfaction in both fields.

I don’t know about you, but I haven’t had any concerns about job security in dentistry. Seems pretty secure. No fear of layoffs or anything like in tech. Where there are people there are teeth in need.

I also know that many physicians do actually work on production in an “eat what you kill” model. Surgeons get paid more the more surgeries they do. Derms get paid more the more patients they see and treatments they sell. Family med docs also get paid the more patients they see. RVUs are a very real thing.

We can point out specific individuals in both fields who make a lot of money. My boss makes well into the 7 figures for having associates and hygienists doing most of the physical work. Just keep in mind that the orthopedic surgeon spent 5 extra years of residency to get there and they’re only getting paid when they work. Dentistry allows you a lot of flexibility in that you can hire associates and make money while you’re on the beach and you can start making passive income much sooner.

And not everyone can be an orthopedic surgeon, anesthesiologist, ophthalmologist, etc. The fact of the matter is many people go to medical school and end up going into family med, internal medicine, pediatrics, emergency med where the salaries aren’t anything that a dentist or dental specialist cannot make. And let’s not make it sound like doing orthopedic surgery is easy. I’m sure it is very physically and mentally demanding. I’m sure they have to deal with call in the middle of the night. I’m sure they’d be jealous of the oral surgeon who works 9-4 four days a week and makes the same salary if not more or the dental practice owner who works two days a week while his associates work 5 days a week and makes more than him.

Both of these careers are amazing careers. There are many cases where the physician ends up with a “better” outcome, but there are also many cases where the dentist ends up with the “better” outcome. I think it all just depends on which personality type you have and what you value.

I very much respect and value your opinions and inputs into this thread. I’m just very optimistic about this field and we can agree to disagree. I think no matter which side you’re on there tends to be a lot of the grass is greener, but I like the grass where I am.

 

[FutureDent020]

I think you are going to find that both professions are great compared to other professions so there is going to be a lot of job satisfaction in both fields.

I don’t know about you, but I haven’t had any concerns about job security in dentistry. Seems pretty secure. No fear of layoffs or anything like in tech. Where there are people there are teeth in need.

I also know that many physicians do actually work on production in an “eat what you kill” model. Surgeons get paid more the more surgeries they do. Derms get paid more the more patients they see and treatments they sell. Family med docs also get paid the more patients they see. RVUs are a very real thing.

We can point out specific individuals in both fields who make a lot of money. My boss makes well into the 7 figures for having associates and hygienists doing most of the physical work. Just keep in mind that the orthopedic surgeon spent 5 extra years of residency to get there and they’re only getting paid when they work. Dentistry allows you a lot of flexibility in that you can hire associates and make money while you’re on the beach and you can start making passive income much sooner.

And not everyone can be an orthopedic surgeon, anesthesiologist, ophthalmologist, etc. The fact of the matter is many people go to medical school and end up going into family med, internal medicine, pediatrics, emergency med where the salaries aren’t anything that a dentist or dental specialist cannot make. And let’s not make it sound like doing orthopedic surgery is easy. I’m sure it is very physically and mentally demanding. I’m sure they have to deal with call in the middle of the night. I’m sure they’d be jealous of the oral surgeon who works 9-4 four days a week and makes the same salary if not more or the dental practice owner who works two days a week while his associates work 5 days a week and makes more than him.

Both of these careers are amazing careers. There are many cases where the physician ends up with a “better” outcome, but there are also many cases where the dentist ends up with the “better” outcome. I think it all just depends on which personality type you have and what you value.

I very much respect and value your opinions and inputs into this thread. I’m just very optimistic about this field and we can agree to disagree. I think no matter which side you’re on there tends to be a lot of the grass is greener, but I like the grass where I am.

I agree with all your points. We do have great careers. It’s easy for me to sit here after a long week and gaze at what I think a physician is doing. So yea, I don’t disagree with you at all actually. And you’re right, my ortho buddy’s hours are definitely worse than mine.

 

[FutureDent020]

Are you a practice owner or employee?

Employee

 

[GoDental101]

Be objective when comparing the professions.
Clinician vs Clinician
Business/Clinic Owner vs Business/Clinic Owner.
Do not compare Clinician vs Business/Clinic Owner.

The thing is is much easier to become a business owner when looking at dentistry vs. medical.

 

[GoDental101]

Hello Dentists of SDN,

I am in a predicament. I’m at a crossroads and wouldn’t be asking this without doing as much research before hand.

One year ago I was accepted into a DO school in PA where I deferred by a year. The reason I deferred was because there were some doubts creeping up about doing a career in medicine. I shadowed a few physicians who seemed extremely entrenched in their work and it made me look for an alternative.

I chose to shadow a few dentists in my area running their own practices. They seemed very laid back and were doing financially well. I decided to apply to Dental schools and got accepted to Case Western. I still have my acceptance for the med school in PA and now have been undecided on what to commit to.

The things I like about medicine:

-Flexibility in what you can go into
-Benefits from hospital systems (paid time off/ insurance, etc)
-Less Debt
-High base pay

The things I don’t like:

-The length of training, especially residency
-The stress of Boards and matching into a specialty
-How busy you are in general. More hours at work constantly
- Harder to start/ run a practice

The things I like about Dentistry are:

-Working with hands
-Precise work
-Less hours
- Running a practice more feasible/ higher earning ceiling

The things I dislike about Dentistry are:

-Potential back/neck issues
-Feels like you have to sell to your patients sometimes from what I’ve seen
-Insane levels of debt
-Working on teeth doesn’t entice me as much but I’m not against it or anything

My end goal is to help people but also do a job that doesn’t wear me out but at the same time also gives me fulfillment. I don’t have a burning passion for Dentistry or medicine in particular to the point where I can only see myself doing one. Truth be told: I want to work at a job where I make good income, have a good lifestyle, am respected, and can work with a team in. I don’t want to be too burnt out but am willing to work very hard to be successful.

I did consider other careers, worked in a few different fields but felt unfulfilled. I am now at a crossroads to take my life to the next level but am torn on which path to take.

The biggest thing off putting about medicine is the stress and burn out rate from hours worked. I’m scared I won’t be able to raise a healthy family while in that field. My biggest disturbance about Dentistry is the sheer amount of predatory debt I may be in when I graduate.

I may find true fulfillment in medicine but I also think running my own dental practice and building up to that can also be very fulfilling.

I’m at a crossroads and really need input as to what path to take. I’ve shadowed both paths and dentistry definitely seems like the nicer, more laid back profession. However the dentists I shadowed were incredibly successful making 300-400K + as owners. Is Dentistry something I should pursue or is a DO medical degree the better alternative? I have to decide by the end of the week so any advice is appreciated.

Both fields are difficult in their own ways and are vastly different in many ways. If you were in my shoes what would you do?

Honestly based off your post I would hold off on pursuing either. You want to be all in for it if you are going to do it. I find a lot of people end up regretting because they picked dentistry for the wrong reasons. Dentistry is hard work. It's not glamorous. People literally hate going to the dentist and they will tell you that every day.

Take some time and even look into other careers, but if you don't have a burning passion for either career why even pursue either one. The financial guys I work with seem to like their jobs and they have what you are looking for...."I want to work at a job where I make good income, have a good lifestyle, am respected, and can work with a team in. I don’t want to be too burnt out but am willing to work very hard to be successful."... I can tell you that a lot of job will fit that bill, but a dentist doesn't always fit that. A lot of people despise dentists. A lot of dentists get burnt out. You will definitely make a good income and can have a good lifestyle though, but the day in and day out can definitely be a grind.

 

[GoDental101]

How do you do this when in one of the professions it’s much more common to be a business owner and in the other profession it’s much more common to work for a big hospital system?

Exactly...I saw a poll on dental town today and something like 94% of dentists responding to the poll have owned at least one practice at one point in time.

 

[yappy]

Exactly...I saw a poll on dental town today and something like 94% of dentists responding to the poll have owned at least one practice at one point in time.

I think the point being overlooked is that many physicians don’t need to be a business owner in order to achieve an “owner salary”. Hence, being a physician is a more straightforward, predictable, path to earning a desirable income.

 

[White_Sponge_Nevus]

This is not to discount the opinions of others, and there has been a lot of good advice shared in this thread, but I would be wary of taking advice from people who don't have a decent amount of familiarity with both pathways.

In general, OMFS residents have had to spend time amongst dental students & med students, residents from a whole slew of specialities, and dentists and physicians. They have a much clearer picture of the educational/training pathway and attendinghood of of family medicine, internal medicine, OBGYN, psych, Gen surg and its subspecialties, Plastics, ENT, Peds, EM, Neurology, and Anesthesia because we have to spend time either functioning as a resident for differing periods of time on those services, or at lest having to spend time with them on med school rotations. This can vary by OMFS program, where some will spend time with NSGY and others as well. This is in addition to the amount of time we spent around GPs, pediatric dentists, perio, prosth, endo, ortho etc.

They are also generally in their late 20s/early 30s and keep up with people who are early in their careers out of dental school (i.e. their classmates and close friends) who share their successes and struggles. If they've made friends with the med students/medical residents with whom they've rotated, they also have a look into their lives as well.

There is a personality and lifestyle, method of thinking, and philosophy difference amongst the different fields and the specialities of each. It's hard to tell if it's the chicken or the egg.

Anybody who is a normal person should be able to find a fulfilling career going either route, both of which come with their own challenges. It's great that you're thinking ahead. I don't have a good answer for you other than to be careful whose advice you're taking! Best of luck!

 

[Wisetoothshucker]

Shadow both, and see which one you like most, which can you see yourself doing and enjoying. I’d be wary of listening to “dental school because you get out early and make a ton of money and easy lifestyle, etc.” Money and lifestyle are important, but they vary even within a specialty. You’ll find both doctors and dentists that are happy with their money and lifestyle, and you’ll find those that aren’t as well.

Choose the one you can see yourself doing and enjoying, and that will likely correlate with money and lifestyle too. If one dentist is showing up for the check, does some half assed fillings that keep bouncing back, versus the other dentist takes pride in doing the best fillings and loves their work, which one will end up likely making more money with the better lifestyle? So choose the one you like the most, the rest will follow

 

[Molar Whisperer]

IMO, shadowing anybody does not accurately present all the pros and cons. Only those who look good on the surface will allow anyone to shadow. For any industry, there will be a bell curve where only the few elites enjoy the most perks. From my observations, in dentistry, location like real estate matter. It can be night and day for someone practicing in low tax, low Cost of Living, low saturation area vs the polar opposite.

Regardless of what you do, you will either have someone write your checks (W2, independent contractor) or you write your own. In dentistry, the overwhelming majority wants to write their own checks and enjoy the elite perks. In my area, the Bell Curve is skewed to the lower end.

My father was while my brother is currently practicing medicine. From my observations, they are like slaves to the Hospital Admin, the State and Big Insurance (check writers). My brother (Hospitalist) would stay till 2 am writing medical charts because he was so overwhelmed. My sister is a dentist trying to practice high end. She is taking Frank Spear courses and doing some big expensive $30k plus cases. Fortunately her husband's income can supplement when she is not producing. When she was taking dental insurance, she lost sleep thinking about writing narratives to insurance companies to pay for crowns. Post Covid, she is constantly trying to navigate staff turnover and shortages.

Here are my keys to consider if I were to go back 25 to 30 years:

1. You may not be doing what you were planning on doing. I wanted to practice high end like the dentist I shadowed.

2. It's very hard to prepare for painful economic times...Covid, recession, Trump Tariffs, massive Tech layoffs (lost patient base). It is best to have multiple sources of income including spouse's. It is also best to be adaptive in your practice such as doing more extractions when times are tough.

3. Be prepared for many things beyond your control whether you are W2, indep contractor, owner. Many of them make you want to quit dentistry as given above and from other posts. If you are W2, the corp wants you to do more with less. It is not their license on the line.

If I could go back, I would do dentistry to pay my bills and explore other business ventures while I'm young. The direction of modern dentistry is mostly against the practitioner making big, easy money.

 

[schmoob]

Well, it’s been over a week. I wonder what OP’s decision was.

 

[juniordentist]

OP is asking the wrong question.

It's not "medicine vs dent"

It should be "medicine vs dental school with 600k loans". Which Penn would be

That's an easy decision...

 

[Ascent23510]

Hey guys so an update. I got an extension to make my decision and I’m leaning more towards dental school. However my debt will be ~400,000 $.

Is this justified if I want to become a general dentist?

The reason I’m leaning towards dentistry is more so because I don’t want to do residency. However, like many have mentioned, I haven’t really seen the harder side of dentistry via my shadowing.

I guess what I want to know is that if you were in my shoes, which one would you pursue? I’m really at a crossroads here. Most of my dental friends have taken on insane loans without a worry in the world and are encouraging me to do the same. I am worried more about the financial aspect of dentistry than anything.

 

[D1Bound]

Hey guys so an update. I got an extension to make my decision and I’m leaning more towards dental school. However my debt will be ~400,000 $.

Is this justified if I want to become a general dentist?

The reason I’m leaning towards dentistry is more so because I don’t want to do residency. However, like many have mentioned, I haven’t really seen the harder side of dentistry via my shadowing.

I guess what I want to know is that if you were in my shoes, which one would you pursue? I’m really at a crossroads here. Most of my dental friends have taken on insane loans without a worry in the world and are encouraging me to do the same. I am worried more about the financial aspect of dentistry than anything.

Just be ready to work a lot mate. The learning does not stop once you graduate.

 

[juniordentist]

400k I would probably do it. It's not ideal, but can't get much cheaper these days.
Be prepared to move rural after grad and to live a resident lifestyle for 5 years after grad.
It's not really a "great" financial position to be in, but it will get you a middle class lifestyle, which a lot of university degrees wont get you

 

[JacquesVallee]

Hey guys so an update. I got an extension to make my decision and I’m leaning more towards dental school. However my debt will be ~400,000 $.

Is this justified if I want to become a general dentist?

No, this is not justified. Do not go into this profession for 400k of debt. Med school will have a better ROI. Be prepared to come out of dental school making 120-130k. That's the reality and it does not justify 400k of debt, not even close.

Be prepared to move rural after grad and to live a resident lifestyle for 5 years after grad.

I moved rural (town of 3.5k) as an associate immediately after graduation and made decent money but nowhere near enough to justify 400k. Really, the only way to pay that off is ownership which requires substantially more debt. Many people justify the insane prices by lying to themselves that they'll own some rural practice. In reality, almost nobody does this. Living rural has been a miserable existence. It's nice being able to practice more traditional dentistry without much threat from DSOs but holy cow is it lonely. I was the only person in my class to move to the middle of nowhere who wasn't at least from a rural area.

 

[Ascent23510]

See that’s the way I thought until a lot of my peers kept telling me I was overreacting to the debt and that it’s not that big of a deal. Income based repayments and over production to pay the loans off fast is their goal. Are they just delusional or are they justified?

 

[JacquesVallee]

Are they just delusional or are they justified?

Delusional

 

[juniordentist]

No, this is not justified. Do not go into this profession for 400k of debt. Med school will have a better ROI. Be prepared to come out of dental school making 120-130k. That's the reality and it does not justify 400k of debt, not even close.


I moved rural (town of 3.5k) as an associate immediately after graduation and made decent money but nowhere near enough to justify 400k. Really, the only way to pay that off is ownership which requires substantially more debt. Many people justify the insane prices by lying to themselves that they'll own some rural practice. In reality, almost nobody does this. Living rural has been a miserable existence. It's nice being able to practice more traditional dentistry without much threat from DSOs but holy cow is it lonely. I was the only person in my class to move to the middle of nowhere who wasn't at least from a rural area.

I agree, living rural is a miserable existence. I did my time, and I did view it as wasted years of my life. So I agree with you that when people say "go rural" it is a comment that shouldn't be taken lightly. The only reason you make money rural is because other dentists don't want to sacrifice their life and live there.
I certainly wouldn't say 400k debt as a dentist is an enviable position to be in, and yes if there is a med position on offer it's probably the better opton

 

[LFA20]

See that’s the way I thought until a lot of my peers kept telling me I was overreacting to the debt and that it’s not that big of a deal. Income based repayments and over production to pay the loans off fast is their goal. Are they just delusional or are they justified?

why are you listening to people who have yet to graduate? take that DO acceptance

 

[dratc]

How have you calculated 400k? Are you sure you did the calculations correct. Did you include living expenses? Did you include interest which will accrue during dental school? Did you include tuition increases each year?

And have you run those number through different repayment calculators to see how much you would owe each month?

Only you can decide if it’s worth it or not. Simply get the true cost of school and run that through a repayment calculator for you monthly payment. Then take a fairly accurate dental salary, remove taxes/savings and then subtract your loan payment. Are you happy with living off the rest (housing, food, transportation, health, fun, etc)? 400k is a lot of debt. I personally would be very uncomfortable assuming debt more than 1x my future income. And with dental, that’s becoming nearly impossible these days.

Some of my former class mates are doing extremely well. 400k would not be a problem for them. They are a minority and did things other would not - more rural area, lots of CE both clinical and business, taking on significant risk with purchasing a practice, etc.

 

[Ascent23510]

Thank you for all your input. I suppose I am doing a good job of being cautious about the debt. I have just been getting told over and over again that the debt isn’t really that big of a deal and that a lot of dentists end up owning their own practice one day so I’ll be able to pay off everything smoothly

 

[LFA20]

Thank you for all your input. I suppose I am doing a good job of being cautious about the debt. I have just been getting told over and over again that the debt isn’t really that big of a deal and that a lot of dentists end up owning their own practice one day so I’ll be able to pay off everything smoothly

You seem to have your mind made up already.. Just remember you have been warned..

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I have just been getting told over and over again that the debt isn’t really that big of a deal and that a lot of dentists end up owning their own practice one day so I’ll be able to pay off everything smoothly

I bet it’s old timer dentists on the tail end of their career telling you this. Given the headwinds younger dentists face owning a practice, it’s not a pretty picture…

Big Hoss

 

[D1Bound]

A mid 40s ish dentist got out of his practice. No idea why except that he was probably burned out. He said in his day he get got a loan for an office with nothing to his name but a couple hundred bucks, a dental degree, and an older Toyota pick up truck. Those days do not exist anymore. His education cost a fraction of today’s and insurance reimbursements were good. Yes, it is STILL possible to make it in this profession, but it is not easy. You are going to labor in this profession. You will bend over and perform labor. There is no way around it. Just my disclaimer!

 

[JacquesVallee]

Thank you for all your input. I suppose I am doing a good job of being cautious about the debt. I have just been getting told over and over again that the debt isn’t really that big of a deal and that a lot of dentists end up owning their own practice one day so I’ll be able to pay off everything smoothly

Who is telling you the debt isn't a big deal!? Going 400k+ in debt for a job that pays 120k starting is a major life altering mistake. As a young dentist, I'm telling you not to do this. As has been said, don't say you weren't warned.

 

[2TH MVR]

I mentioned this before. I golfed with a young anesthesiologist the other day. He's been out in the real world for about a year and a half. I asked him what his total education debt was. Total: around 300K. He will not incur any practice debt. Just a nice salary with great benefits.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

I mentioned this before. I golfed with a young anesthesiologist the other day. He's been out in the real world for about a year and a half. I asked him what his total education debt was. Total: around 300K. He will not incur any practice debt. Just a nice salary with great benefits.

Im not saying that anesthesiology is not a great career. It is. But he spent a long time doing residency getting there and when it comes time to retire he won’t have a practice to sell for millions of dollars.

I graduated dental school with $250k in loans. Am making north of $400k per year as an associate while still in my 20s. I have a longer investment timeline to work in my favor than the physician who spent years in residency and fellowship. You mention no practice debt. Well, at the end of your career you sell that practice and it is a big lump sum towards your retirement. Dentistry does have its pros.

Both pathways can be rewarding.

 

[JacquesVallee]

Im not saying that anesthesiology is not a great career. It is. But he spent a long time doing residency getting there and when it comes time to retire he won’t have a practice to sell for millions of dollars.

I graduated dental school with $250k in loans. Am making north of $400k per year as an associate while still in my 20s. I have a longer investment timeline to work in my favor than the physician who spent years in residency and fellowship. You mention no practice debt. Well, at the end of your career you sell that practice and it is a big lump sum towards your retirement. Dentistry does have its pros.

Both pathways can be rewarding.

It's great you make 400k a year as an associate in your 20's, but that will not be the reality for 99.9% of dentists graduating. You're an anomaly. A single anecdote. You should be proud of what you accomplished, but we should present a realistic view of dentistry to predents. I can tell you the average salary from my class is probably closer to 130k. I got a job offer from a multi practice owner in a city who employs dozens of dentists. He straight up told me most of his associates won't hit 200k until around 10 years of practicing at least. He said his average second year income was 130k.

You have to look at averages. Average dentist salary is about 170k (heavily skewed by older practice owners). Average anesthesiologist salary is around 400k. Average dental school debt is about 300k, average medical school debt is 200k. Medicine is a significantly better deal financially on average.

 

[charlestweed]

I mentioned this before. I golfed with a young anesthesiologist the other day. He's been out in the real world for about a year and a half. I asked him what his total education debt was. Total: around 300K. He will not incur any practice debt. Just a nice salary with great benefits.

According to the website of the DO school that the OP got accepted to, the total cost of attendance is $392k, which is not that much cheaper than earning a DDS. PCOM Cost of Attendance: Tuition, Fees and Other Expenses. And in order to become an anesthesiologist, he has to do 4 more years of low paid residency after med school. And there is a mid-level provider (CRNA) to compete against.

My cousin is an anesthesiologist. His oldest daughter, who is a year below my son also at UCLA, decides to pursue dentistry because she doesn't like how hard her dad has to work to support the family. Her dad usually leaves the house early and comes home late. She shadowed my sister (a general dentist), my wife (perio) and me (ortho) and she likes it. She was so excited that she took a course to become a dental X ray tech so she can add this to her resume. I remember when my younger brother, who's 10 yr younger than me, applied for med schools, my cousin told my brother to apply for dental school (and be like me) instead. The grass is always greener on the other side. Nobody likes their job and that's why it's called work.

 

[LFA20]

Im not saying that anesthesiology is not a great career. It is. But he spent a long time doing residency getting there and when it comes time to retire he won’t have a practice to sell for millions of dollars.

I graduated dental school with $250k in loans. Am making north of $400k per year as an associate while still in my 20s. I have a longer investment timeline to work in my favor than the physician who spent years in residency and fellowship. You mention no practice debt. Well, at the end of your career you sell that practice and it is a big lump sum towards your retirement. Dentistry does have its pros.

Both pathways can be rewarding.

What state do you practice at?(east, northeast, etc) and is it rural? what type of procedures?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

What state do you practice at?(east, northeast, etc) and is it rural? what type of procedures?

Northeast. 25 mins outside of a major city. Do a little bit of everything. Molar endo, surgical ext, bone grafting, implant placement, Invisalign.

 

[LFA20]

Northeast. 25 mins outside of a major city. Do a little bit of everything. Molar endo, surgical ext, bone grafting, implant placement, Invisalign.

Yeah you deserve to get paid that much if you do all that stuff. Nice 👍

$21k post tax is plenty of money to attack a 250k loan