Race requirements in summer internships

[Str8Baller]

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I have recently begun the application process to summer research and healthcare internships. I am astounded at the number of internships that are for exclusively non-white people. I am also shocked that almost all of the internships that DO accept white people state that preference is given to those historically underrepresented in the sciences. I am a supporter of affirmative action to some degree, those who are at a financial or geographical disadvantage should be given some help. However, I think that affirmative action should be race blind. It is inherently and obviously racist to give people of different races preference just because they are different. I have always been aware of affirmative action, but I never knew it was so black and white (no pun intended).

What are your opinions? I'm not looking for a solution or anything in particular, I just needed a forum to vent my frustration.

 

[sinombre]

I have recently begun the application process to summer research and healthcare internships. I am astounded at the number of internships that are for exclusively non-white people. I am also shocked that almost all of the internships that DO accept white people state that preference is given to those historically underrepresented in the sciences. I am a supporter of affirmative action to some degree, those who are at a financial or geographical disadvantage should be given some help. However, I think that affirmative action should be race blind. It is inherently and obviously racist to give people of different races preference just because they are different. I have always been aware of affirmative action, but I never knew it was so black and white (no pun intended).

What are your opinions? I'm not looking for a solution or anything in particular, I just needed a forum to vent my frustration.

Can you provide links?

 

[Ruhroh]

Programs to help 'disadvantaged' people should be race-blind, unfortunately most are not. Consequently most of the URMs who end up benefiting are people from middle-class backgrounds who probably don't need any extra help, but get it from the merit of their skin. Most of your future black classmates are not going to be hood-raised - more than likely they will be children of doctors, just like most of your future white classmates.

I was raised by a single immigrant mother in a bilingual household, and lived in crap conditions most of my life. Unfortunately my mother is from Ukraine and my skin color is white... no aid or special consideration for me throughout this process.

 

[Str8Baller]

http://medicine.uchc.edu/prospective/hcop/clinicalsummer.html

One of many examples, the first requirement for applicants is that you are a minority.

 

[sinombre]

http://medicine.uchc.edu/prospective/hcop/clinicalsummer.html

One of many examples, the first requirement for applicants is that you are a minority.

Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, but the first requirement is that the applicant should "[be] from groups that have been traditionally underrepresented in the health professions (African American, Hispanic/Latino, Native American, Native Alaskan, Native Hawaiian) or others from disadvantaged backgrounds who meet all eligibility criteria and have a high probability of fulfilling the social and educational goals of this program."

Being a non-minority but from a poor family seems to fit this requirement, doesn't it?

 

[LizzyM]

I have recently begun the application process to summer research and healthcare internships. I am astounded at the number of internships that are for exclusively non-white people. I am also shocked that almost all of the internships that DO accept white people state that preference is given to those historically underrepresented in the sciences. I am a supporter of affirmative action to some degree, those who are at a financial or geographical disadvantage should be given some help. However, I think that affirmative action should be race blind. It is inherently and obviously racist to give people of different races preference just because they are different. I have always been aware of affirmative action, but I never knew it was so black and white (no pun intended).

What are your opinions? I'm not looking for a solution or anything in particular, I just needed a forum to vent my frustration.

There is some history here... schools don't get many applications from Black, Hispanic and American Indian applicants. Why? There aren't many of these folks in the pipeline. Why? They don't see science, technology, engineering and math as options for their careers. why? lack of exposure to these subject areas and opportunitites to learn more/do more in this field.

So the response is to make some opportunities available so that these folks can check it out and perhaps choose to continue on to medicine or doctoral studies in science or engineering. Some of these programs have become more inclusive and diverse but they still see their role as giving opportunitites to those who might otherwise not have the chance to pursue laboratory research.

 

[touchpause13]

there is some history here... Schools don't get many applications from black, hispanic and american indian applicants. Why? There aren't many of these folks in the pipeline. Why? They don't see science, technology, engineering and math as options for their careers. Why? Lack of exposure to these subject areas and opportunitites to learn more/do more in this field.

So the response is to make some opportunities available so that these folks can check it out and perhaps choose to continue on to medicine or doctoral studies in science or engineering. Some of these programs have become more inclusive and diverse but they still see their role as giving opportunitites to those who might otherwise not have the chance to pursue laboratory research.

+1

 

[Str8Baller]

You are right, being a non-minority from a poor family does fit this background. This was not the best example of minority exclusive, though there are still many of those (http://sackler.tufts.edu/Admissions...uilding-Diversity-in-Biomedical-Sciences.aspx). However, being a minority from a middle class or wealthy family also fits this background. I understand the ideas behind this, and to an extent think its good. I'm just frustrated that I (along with many others) are at a significant disadvantage because we are white, and I'm surprised at how inherently racist some of the requirements/preferences are. Imagine a white-only research opportunity.. (just for the sake of argument, again, I realize how much good many of these programs do, and that many truly disadvantaged people DO benefit)

 

[Str8Baller]

fits this requirement*

 

[mcloaf]

You are right, being a non-minority from a poor family does fit this background. This was not the best example of minority exclusive, though there are still many of those (http://sackler.tufts.edu/Admissions...uilding-Diversity-in-Biomedical-Sciences.aspx). However, being a minority from a middle class or wealthy family also fits this background. I understand the ideas behind this, and to an extent think its good. I'm just frustrated that I (along with many others) are at a significant disadvantage because we are white, and I'm surprised at how inherently racist some of the requirements/preferences are. Imagine a white-only research opportunity.. (just for the sake of argument, again, I realize how much good many of these programs do, and that many truly disadvantaged people DO benefit)

Clueless.

 

[Narmerguy]

You are right, being a non-minority from a poor family does fit this background. This was not the best example of minority exclusive, though there are still many of those (http://sackler.tufts.edu/Admissions...uilding-Diversity-in-Biomedical-Sciences.aspx). However, being a minority from a middle class or wealthy family also fits this background. I understand the ideas behind this, and to an extent think its good. I'm just frustrated that I (along with many others) are at a significant disadvantage because we are white, and I'm surprised at how inherently racist some of the requirements/preferences are. Imagine a white-only research opportunity.. (just for the sake of argument, again, I realize how much good many of these programs do, and that many truly disadvantaged people DO benefit)

...well this is awkward.

Perhaps you should read more about race and society before wanting to draw conclusions. There's quite a bit of research on this, and it has been collected over decades by very intelligent people who devote their lives to this work. I know it's easy to think that you understand these issues because of your life experiences but I assure you that it is more complex than most people probably care to know.

At the end of the day, people are free to make the choices that they like. They can make internships for women only, for atheists only, for people under 25, for people born in Texas, for people studying anthropology, for people who are vegetarian, etc etc. There are literally thousands of internships with dozens of different restrictions. I find it odd that you are so bothered by a particular subset of these, and I wonder if you are equally interested in cases where minorities are at a disadvantage?

 

[Str8Baller]

I was obviously referring to a disadvantage in this particular context.

 

[sinombre]

...well this is awkward.

Perhaps you should read more about race and society before wanting to draw conclusions. There's quite a bit of research on this, and it has been collected over decades by very intelligent people who devote their lives to this work. I know it's easy to think that you understand these issues because of your life experiences but I assure you that it is more complex than most people probably care to know.

At the end of the day, people are free to make the choices that they like. They can make internships for women only, for atheists only, for people under 25, for people born in Texas, for people studying anthropology, for people who are vegetarian, etc etc. There are literally thousands of internships with dozens of different restrictions. I find it odd that you are so bothered by a particular subset of these, and I wonder if you are equally interested in cases where minorities are at a disadvantage?

This. A thousand times this.

 

[mcloaf]

I was obviously referring to a disadvantage in this particular context.

So your point is that it upsets you that as a white person you're at a disadvantage in applying to internships designed to increase representation of underrepresented minorities in science?

I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[Str8Baller]

Yes, I know, I realize that I don't have in depth knowledge about all of the instances in which certain demographics of people have advantages or disadvantages. I am fully aware that certain demographics are disadvantaged in some capacities and other demographics are disadvantaged in others. I did not mean to extrapolate that, because minorities have an advantage applying to certain internship positions, that minorities have an advantage in life. While I was upset that I wasn't able to apply to (or had a disadvantage of acceptance at) many of the internships, my reason for starting the thread was just as much to express my surprise at how blatantly stated certain demographics are required or preferred for application.

 

[Str8Baller]

When seemingly all internships aim at increasing the under represented, yes, I guess I am upset that I have a disadvantage.

 

[sinombre]

When seemingly all internships aim at increasing the under represented, yes, I guess I am upset that I have a disadvantage.

You're probably just looking in the wrong place. What are you looking to do? Get research experience? Why don't you start contacting different PIs and go about it that way? You don't need a formal "internship" to get research experience. Or really any experience for that matter.

 

[kami333]

I'm just frustrated that I (along with many others) are at a significant disadvantage because we are white, and I'm surprised at how inherently racist some of the requirements/preferences are.

Cheer up, you could be Asian.

 

[Str8Baller]

It's definitely possible. Also, my assumption that "seemingly all" research opportunities aim to increase the underrepresented may be a false extrapolation of the 20-30 positions I looked into. I know I don't need a formal internship. I will look into other possibilities.

 

[Str8Baller]

truth...

 

[lobo.solo]

There is some history here... schools don't get many applications from Black, Hispanic and American Indian applicants. Why? There aren't many of these folks in the pipeline. Why? They don't see science, technology, engineering and math as options for their careers. why? lack of exposure to these subject areas and opportunitites to learn more/do more in this field.

So the response is to make some opportunities available so that these folks can check it out and perhaps choose to continue on to medicine or doctoral studies in science or engineering. Some of these programs have become more inclusive and diverse but they still see their role as giving opportunitites to those who might otherwise not have the chance to pursue laboratory research.

This makes sense.

 

[touchpause13]

You are right, being a non-minority from a poor family does fit this background. This was not the best example of minority exclusive, though there are still many of those (http://sackler.tufts.edu/Admissions...uilding-Diversity-in-Biomedical-Sciences.aspx). However, being a minority from a middle class or wealthy family also fits this background. I understand the ideas behind this, and to an extent think its good. I'm just frustrated that I (along with many others) are at a significant disadvantage because we are white, and I'm surprised at how inherently racist some of the requirements/preferences are. Imagine a white-only research opportunity.. (just for the sake of argument, again, I realize how much good many of these programs do, and that many truly disadvantaged people DO benefit)

all other research opportunities are "white" by default
just like we have black history month - it's because the other 11 months are white history months

 

[Str8Baller]

I agree that this thinking may be applicable to other situations, but not to my experience looking for research internships. The internships on my university's web page for summer research positions (not racially specific in anyway) almost all say that they prefer minorities.

 

[Hemorrage]

all other research opportunities are "white" by default
just like we have black history month - it's because the other 11 months are white history months

That makes no sense. If anything, any pipeline program that exists is solely for the purpose of producing more URM physicians or scientists. If you aren't URM you don't get any special advantage for anything.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

You are right, being a non-minority from a poor family does fit this background. This was not the best example of minority exclusive, though there are still many of those (http://sackler.tufts.edu/Admissions...uilding-Diversity-in-Biomedical-Sciences.aspx). However, being a minority from a middle class or wealthy family also fits this background. I understand the ideas behind this, and to an extent think its good. I'm just frustrated that I (along with many others) are at a significant disadvantage because we are white, and I'm surprised at how inherently racist some of the requirements/preferences are. Imagine a white-only research opportunity.. (just for the sake of argument, again, I realize how much good many of these programs do, and that many truly disadvantaged people DO benefit)

Most of these minority summer research programmes only have 20 or so spots, and this is out of the more than 100 thousand annual applicants to medical school and even larger pool of premeds in general. Honestly, even IF they were to open these programmes to anyone and everyone, you probably STILL wouldn't get in...hell, NYU's SURP programme has a lower acceptance rate than their actual medical school.

Anyway dude, more white people got into medical school with sub-30 MCATs than the entire number of Black, Hispanic and Native American applicants combined. Cut the "black people are at an advantage" crap, most people getting into medical school with below-median grades are whites.

...well this is awkward.

Perhaps you should read more about race and society before wanting to draw conclusions. There's quite a bit of research on this, and it has been collected over decades by very intelligent people who devote their lives to this work. I know it's easy to think that you understand these issues because of your life experiences but I assure you that it is more complex than most people probably care to know.

At the end of the day, people are free to make the choices that they like. They can make internships for women only, for atheists only, for people under 25, for people born in Texas, for people studying anthropology, for people who are vegetarian, etc etc. There are literally thousands of internships with dozens of different restrictions. I find it odd that you are so bothered by a particular subset of these, and I wonder if you are equally interested in cases where minorities are at a disadvantage?

Exactly. Programmes geared towards underrepresented minorities make up such a minute percentage of the research opportunities out there that it makes no sense to complain

 

[Narmerguy]

all other research opportunities are "white" by default
just like we have black history month - it's because the other 11 months are white history months

😕 I'm not sure that this really has anything to do with black history. This isn't about recognizing black people's history (first of all these internships are often for all underrepresented minorities, not just blacks), it's about increasing participation of minorities in science/medical fields. I'm not even sure what you mean by stating "all other research opportunities are 'white' by default" except to say that most research opportunities are majority white. That doesn't necessarily mean anything discriminatory or explicitly selective, though the demographics are indeed part of the reason for the need for these sort of minority internship programs.