Rad Onc compensation

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sam1234567

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I don’t understand why most of rad Onc job available these days is offering 330k like deadass 330k saw multiple offers for the exact same number isn’t it suppose to be much higher ?!
I talked with multiple people about jobs and they expected the decline to be in the next 5 years or so what is happening?
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sam1234567 said:
I don’t understand why most of rad Onc job available these days is offering 330k like deadass 330k saw multiple offers for the exact same number isn’t it suppose to be much higher ?!
I talked with multiple people about jobs and they expected the decline to be in the next 5 years or so what is happening?
Click to expand...

No it isn’t but yes it is declining. Esp if PP. what do you expect it to be higher. There are too many rad oncs and you have no leverage. You’re lucky to get 330K. If it were me I’d start you at 265 take it or leave it.
 
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Fpg1245 said:
No it isn’t but yes it is declining. Esp if PP. what do you expect it to be higher. There are too many rad oncs and you have no leverage. You’re lucky to get 330K. If it were me I’d start you at 265 take it or leave it.
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A chairman/senior partner just smiled somewhere and doesn't know why.

Do not take 265k.
 
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Doctorer said:
A chairman/senior partner just smiled somewhere and doesn't know why.

Do not take 265k.
Click to expand...

New grads that didn’t jump ship even with the writing on the wall should embrace the new reality.
 
I'll offer you $275k with a full academic day per week.

Target wRVU is 15,000 and you'll get $25/wRVU over target (up to max of $50,000). The only way I'm able to get away with offering such a generous salary (believe me, the university did NOT like it) is by having a portion of the salary be at-risk if you don't meet target. Hard floor of $150k but don't worry - all junior faculty meet targets.
 
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I’ll offer 220K and a 4 day work week. No RVU threshold. Wel really pulled out all the stops on this offer so…
 
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I'll am authorized to offer half my salary if you do my whole job
 
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Winner Winner Win GIF by giphystudios2021
 
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Is this the first use of “deadass” in the RadOnc forum?
 
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medgator said:
Had to look one that up but it's a real word!! Nothing to do with dead or ass either
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Oh I know what it means, my wife is ten years younger and I’m friends w way too many zoomer/millennials.

“I think that most chairman are sus, but let me tell you, Jerry Jaboin is deadass ride or die. doesn’t matter, RO is so basic, no cap. All these #radonc stans be shook that there are 30 unfilled positions. Lemme and mroga are savage on the bird, calling them out”
 
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RealSimulD said:
Oh I know what it means, my wife is ten years younger and I’m friends w way too many zoomer/millennials.

“I think that most chairman are sus, but let me tell you, Jerry Jaboin is deadass ride or die. doesn’t matter, RO is so basic, no cap. All these #radonc stans be shook that there are 30 unfilled positions. Lemme and mroga are savage on the bird, calling them out”
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I am impressed
 
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RealSimulD said:
Oh I know what it means, my wife is ten years younger and I’m friends w way too many zoomer/millennials.

“I think that most chairman are sus, but let me tell you, Jerry Jaboin is deadass ride or die. doesn’t matter, RO is so basic, no cap. All these #radonc stans be shook that there are 30 unfilled positions. Lemme and mroga are savage on the bird, calling them out”
Click to expand...
"Bro, that job is mid"
 
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RealSimulD said:
Oh I know what it means, my wife is ten years younger and I’m friends w way too many zoomer/millennials.

“I think that most chairman are sus, but let me tell you, Jerry Jaboin is deadass ride or die. doesn’t matter, RO is so basic, no cap. All these #radonc stans be shook that there are 30 unfilled positions. Lemme and mroga are savage on the bird, calling them out”
Click to expand...
Your drip is goals fam.
 
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sam1234567 said:
I don’t understand why most of rad Onc job available these days is offering 330k like deadass 330k saw multiple offers for the exact same number isn’t it suppose to be much higher ?!
I talked with multiple people about jobs and they expected the decline to be in the next 5 years or so what is happening?
Click to expand...

Fpg1245 said:
No it isn’t but yes it is declining. Esp if PP. what do you expect it to be higher. There are too many rad oncs and you have no leverage. You’re lucky to get 330K. If it were me I’d start you at 265 take it or leave it.
Click to expand...

Doctorer said:
A chairman/senior partner just smiled somewhere and doesn't know why.

Do not take 265k.
Click to expand...

Fpg1245 said:
New grads that didn’t jump ship even with the writing on the wall should embrace the new reality.
Click to expand...

elementaryschooleconomics said:
I'll offer you $275k with a full academic day per week.

Target wRVU is 15,000 and you'll get $25/wRVU over target (up to max of $50,000). The only way I'm able to get away with offering such a generous salary (believe me, the university did NOT like it) is by having a portion of the salary be at-risk if you don't meet target. Hard floor of $150k but don't worry - all junior faculty meet targets.
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New grad med phys getting 250K offers now

Senior med phys, where very needed, pulling 400K

Consolation: they have to work a bit harder than 4-day rad oncs imho
 
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RealSimulD said:
Oh I know what it means, my wife is ten years younger and I’m friends w way too many zoomer/millennials.

“I think that most chairman are sus, but let me tell you, Jerry Jaboin is deadass ride or die. doesn’t matter, RO is so basic, no cap. All these #radonc stans be shook that there are 30 unfilled positions. Lemme and mroga are savage on the bird, calling them out”
Click to expand...

ChatGPT - talk about rad onc chairman in a negative light, JJ in a positive light, rad onc the field in a negative light and mention some twitter trolls, all in the style and substance of Edgar Allan Poe literally anybody from Gen Z
 
I'm not Rad Onc but at my institution (Silicon Valley CA, county gov't) a new hire would make ~525k and someone with the most seniority would make ~575k. With yearly COLA increases, top dog would make ~620k in 2025-2026. I don't think they're hiring though.

I make more than half of that as a palliative doc.
 
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Entadus said:
I'm not Rad Onc but at my institution (Silicon Valley CA, county gov't) a new hire would make ~525k and someone with the most seniority would make ~575k. With yearly COLA increases, top dog would make ~620k in 2025-2026. I don't think they're hiring though.

I make more than half of that as a palliative doc.
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*furiously scribbling on piece of paper*

What do palliative docs make these days? I guess you're in a high cost of living area, but is it common to be pulling at least $300k?

BACK IN MY DAY, I recall the average salary being criminally low for you guys, something like $180k/year. It would be nice to think it's better now...
 
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elementaryschooleconomics said:
*furiously scribbling on piece of paper*

What do palliative docs make these days? I guess you're in a high cost of living area, but is it common to be pulling at least $300k?

BACK IN MY DAY, I recall the average salary being criminally low for you guys, something like $180k/year. It would be nice to think it's better now...
Click to expand...
Sorry if i was unclear, i don’t make 300 yet but will be making that in a couple yrs with COLA raises. High 200’s is realistic right now, and 300 should be doable depending on location (geographic arbitrage).

Academics is another story and likely <200k.

I would advise any new grad to not settle for less than 250. I wouldn’t change jobs for less than 300
 
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Entadus said:
Sorry if i was unclear, i don’t make 300 yet but will be making that in a couple yrs with COLA raises. High 200’s is realistic right now, and 300 should be doable depending on location (geographic arbitrage).

Academics is another story and likely <200k.

I would advise any new grad to not settle for less than 250. I wouldn’t change jobs for less than 300
Click to expand...
Well, you guys deserve more, period.
 
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Entadus said:
Sorry if i was unclear, i don’t make 300 yet but will be making that in a couple yrs with COLA raises. High 200’s is realistic right now, and 300 should be doable depending on location (geographic arbitrage).

Academics is another story and likely <200k.

I would advise any new grad to not settle for less than 250. I wouldn’t change jobs for less than 300
Click to expand...
Fwiw, where I am, docs in my group haven't seen a COLA adjustment for 10+ yrs
 
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sirspamalot said:
525k won't buy you a shack in Silicon Valley, maybe a storage unit.

I Dont Know Season 11 GIF by Curb Your Enthusiasm
Click to expand...

500 doesn’t buy much in the northeast either. Bottom line. If west coast docs can’t make at least 600K as a specialist there really isn’t any point in being there. Even if you move to the less populated parts of the state…you’re basically getting all the the taxes with zero of the benefits.
 
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Yeah my family is basically homeless, we rent a 2br/2ba shack (no A/C or microwave), cook at home most nights, unable to shop at whole foods. To rub salt in the wound, i’m only able to put $50k a year into retirement
 
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some of these old guys dropping like flies. opening it up
 
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I'm hospital employed, signed a contract for mid-400's a few years ago. No COLA increases x 5+ years. Now the hospital is unilaterally telling us they are going to withhold 10% of our salary, and only pay it at the end of the year if we do three silly QA/QI projects through the year. None of this has been written out let alone signed on to by us in a new contract. Our paychecks drop 10%, and of course, no interest is paid on the $40k+ they hold in their account.
My question--is that legal? Do I want to engage a lawyer? Of course it's easy to answer "yes talk to a lawyer" but is there a value proposition for me to retain one for $5k+ ?
They're doing it to most specialties, and of course we're all silo'd and don't talk let alone act like the labor we're treated like and unionize...
 
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Cancerdancer said:
I'm hospital employed, signed a contract for mid-400's a few years ago. No COLA increases x 5+ years. Now the hospital is unilaterally telling us they are going to withhold 10% of our salary, and only pay it at the end of the year if we do three silly QA/QI projects through the year. None of this has been written out let alone signed on to by us in a new contract. Our paychecks drop 10%, and of course, no interest is paid on the $40k+ they hold in their account.
My question--is that legal? Do I want to engage a lawyer? Of course it's easy to answer "yes talk to a lawyer" but is there a value proposition for me to retain one for $5k+ ?
They're doing it to most specialties, and of course we're all silo'd and don't talk let alone act like the labor we're treated like and unionize...
Click to expand...
From my experience, a lawyer will not be helpful in this case. Withholds are not popular with any physicians but are becoming more prevalent in the hospital employed world. Based on your description, it sounds like you can negotiate directly with administration for an increase assuming that your productivity and quality support that level of compensation.
 
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#not legal advice#

Feels like they could withhold "bonus" distributions, but not "salary." Is your contract structed as all salary?
 
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Cancerdancer said:
I'm hospital employed, signed a contract for mid-400's a few years ago. No COLA increases x 5+ years. Now the hospital is unilaterally telling us they are going to withhold 10% of our salary, and only pay it at the end of the year if we do three silly QA/QI projects through the year. None of this has been written out let alone signed on to by us in a new contract. Our paychecks drop 10%, and of course, no interest is paid on the $40k+ they hold in their account.
My question--is that legal? Do I want to engage a lawyer? Of course it's easy to answer "yes talk to a lawyer" but is there a value proposition for me to retain one for $5k+ ?
They're doing it to most specialties, and of course we're all silo'd and don't talk let alone act like the labor we're treated like and unionize...
Click to expand...
I would dig out your contract and read it very carefully.

If your hospital has good lawyers, then yes - there will be some language in your contract making this totally kosher.

However, there's a chance they're dumb, and you can fight it.

And yes, if you don't feel comfortable figuring this out yourself, you need to get a lawyer to review your contract.
 
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Cancerdancer said:
I'm hospital employed, signed a contract for mid-400's a few years ago. No COLA increases x 5+ years. Now the hospital is unilaterally telling us they are going to withhold 10% of our salary, and only pay it at the end of the year if we do three silly QA/QI projects through the year. None of this has been written out let alone signed on to by us in a new contract. Our paychecks drop 10%, and of course, no interest is paid on the $40k+ they hold in their account.
My question--is that legal? Do I want to engage a lawyer? Of course it's easy to answer "yes talk to a lawyer" but is there a value proposition for me to retain one for $5k+ ?
They're doing it to most specialties, and of course we're all silo'd and don't talk let alone act like the labor we're treated like and unionize...
Click to expand...
Cant imagine this is legal if its not in the contract, but would worry about suing the hospital if you need to stay there. If my hospital pulled this, most docs would flee to a neighboring system,except radonc. This is the malignant burnout of deliberate ASTRO sponsored oversupply.
 
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Cancerdancer said:
I'm hospital employed, signed a contract for mid-400's a few years ago. No COLA increases x 5+ years. Now the hospital is unilaterally telling us they are going to withhold 10% of our salary, and only pay it at the end of the year if we do three silly QA/QI projects through the year. None of this has been written out let alone signed on to by us in a new contract. Our paychecks drop 10%, and of course, no interest is paid on the $40k+ they hold in their account.
My question--is that legal? Do I want to engage a lawyer? Of course it's easy to answer "yes talk to a lawyer" but is there a value proposition for me to retain one for $5k+ ?
They're doing it to most specialties, and of course we're all silo'd and don't talk let alone act like the labor we're treated like and unionize...
Click to expand...
I would also like to know this question... our productivity bonuses used to be paid out quarterly and are now being held to annually because some of the less productive docs in my multi-specialty group got "overpaid" and didn't hit RVU targets.

Bruh...I'd REALLY like that 4% interest on my productivity bonus that would have been earned if it was in my savings account all year and not yours. B*#tches.
 
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Yet another warning of becoming some hospital administrator's employee. They can change the game whenever they feel like it.

Good luck out there y'all.
 
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Cancerdancer said:
I'm hospital employed, signed a contract for mid-400's a few years ago. No COLA increases x 5+ years. Now the hospital is unilaterally telling us they are going to withhold 10% of our salary, and only pay it at the end of the year if we do three silly QA/QI projects through the year. None of this has been written out let alone signed on to by us in a new contract. Our paychecks drop 10%, and of course, no interest is paid on the $40k+ they hold in their account.
My question--is that legal? Do I want to engage a lawyer? Of course it's easy to answer "yes talk to a lawyer" but is there a value proposition for me to retain one for $5k+ ?
They're doing it to most specialties, and of course we're all silo'd and don't talk let alone act like the labor we're treated like and unionize...
Click to expand...

Oof. That's unfortunate, sorry to hear that. We're talking about ~45K in salary. I'd say that retaining a lawyer is pretty reasonable. Devil with these things is always in the details and success will depends a lot on the specific language of your contract and relevant state law and case law within your state. My guess is they ran this past their lawyers before they instituted this policy so they probably feel like it's defendable if they get challenged. Either that or they're comfortable firing anyone who makes noise about it.

But other than the expense, there's no harm talking to a lawyer for a more detailed analysis than that of a random stranger on the internet.
 
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Unless your urologists and neurosurgeons are in the top 90% salary brackets, I can’t imagine that they would agree to this.
 
Cancerdancer said:
I'm hospital employed, signed a contract for mid-400's a few years ago. No COLA increases x 5+ years. Now the hospital is unilaterally telling us they are going to withhold 10% of our salary, and only pay it at the end of the year if we do three silly QA/QI projects through the year. None of this has been written out let alone signed on to by us in a new contract. Our paychecks drop 10%, and of course, no interest is paid on the $40k+ they hold in their account.
My question--is that legal? Do I want to engage a lawyer? Of course it's easy to answer "yes talk to a lawyer" but is there a value proposition for me to retain one for $5k+ ?
They're doing it to most specialties, and of course we're all silo'd and don't talk let alone act like the labor we're treated like and unionize...
Click to expand...

I agree with what everyone said. Just wanted to comment this has to be the weirdest withhold I've ever heard.

3 QI projects each per year? So you're going to have like dozens of QI projects running each year? Why?
 
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Ten percent withheld is ridiculous. Fortunately, these projects can be made to be super easy, as administration probably doesn't know anything about radiation, oncology, or medicine in general.
 
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yeah make up some BS. rad onc does great at this

a sim order project
a constraints project
a CBCT review project

aka stuff already done, add some fancy QI words
 
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